With Ultimate Combat and such shinnageans as -1 spell per level and 3 or 4 opposition schools, Sorcerers should now be able to get archetypes by either removing a spell a level (very harsh but it should give something nice or by having banned (not restricted) schools of magic
Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Sorcerer bloodlines are practically archetypes onto themselves, they got served the archetype platter before almost everyone else.
LazarX wrote: Sorcerer bloodlines are practically archetypes onto themselves, they got served the archetype platter before almost everyone else. Yes and No. Bloodlines and Oracle Mysteries are core to the character in that they are required by the class---and they should be because they help define the character just like a fighter build. It also prevented the underpowered flavorlessness that was the 3.5 Sorcerer.
So they are pseudo archtypes that are required, unlike archtypes for any other class.
Because of that, giving sorcerers some genuine optional archtypes is logical and reasonable, though perhaps not as many as other classes.
Any suggestions for archetypical sorcerer types that aren't related to their source of magic? I can't think of any.
Gun sorcerer.
Item creation sorcerer. (Think Forge from X-Men - it just kinda comes to him.)
Tattooed sorcerer - oh, wait, that one exists in Inner Sea Magic.
As long as they don't go in the -1 spell known route they went with the crossblooded (meaning they lag one more level to get next level spells) i am ok with it.
Item Sorceror - UMD specialist, able to recharge staves he doesn't know a spell for, just using a spell slot. At high levels able to charge multiple staves or add multiple charges at once. Gets Staff Like Wand a la wizard discovery, stuff like that.
I'd like to see a Sorcerer based Magus...rather than wizard base...drop the spell book, get spontaneous casting/known spells instead.
pad300 wrote: Item Sorceror - UMD specialist, able to recharge staves he doesn't know a spell for, just using a spell slot. At high levels able to charge multiple staves or add multiple charges at once. Gets Staff Like Wand a la wizard discovery, stuff like that. Come to think, there's something like that in ISM as well - the Razmiran Priest archetype.
Xaaon of Korvosa wrote: I'd like to see a Sorcerer based Magus...rather than wizard base...drop the spell book, get spontaneous casting/known spells instead. *cough*arcane duelist bard* cough
Name Violation wrote: Xaaon of Korvosa wrote: I'd like to see a Sorcerer based Magus...rather than wizard base...drop the spell book, get spontaneous casting/known spells instead. *cough*arcane duelist bard* cough Breath mint?
There could easily be a gunslinger or siege engine sorcerer. Just replace the feats with the special abilities and subtract a spell per day or something. That way the sorcerer gets more things to spend its spells on without changing/inventing bloodlines. (the bloodline feats are mostly crap anyway)
I think the issue here is that the designers see bloodlines as the end all be all for sorcerers. A lot of threads here show that bloodlines shouldn't be the end all be all and some more work needs to go into them. Personally I was thinking that the sorcerer was going to get the spellslinger archetype and I was going to be able to play my duppy but lovable gunmage again... alas it will not be.
Name Violation wrote: Xaaon of Korvosa wrote: I'd like to see a Sorcerer based Magus...rather than wizard base...drop the spell book, get spontaneous casting/known spells instead. *cough*arcane duelist bard* cough Because no spontaneous casting gish would ever want to be able to cast non-sonic evocations.
Atarlost wrote: Name Violation wrote: Xaaon of Korvosa wrote: I'd like to see a Sorcerer based Magus...rather than wizard base...drop the spell book, get spontaneous casting/known spells instead. *cough*arcane duelist bard* cough Because no spontaneous casting gish would ever want to be able to cast non-sonic evocations. this helps
Why not allow Sorcerers to trade out their Bloodline Bonus Feats for Alternate Class Options.
Or give Sorcerers the options that their Divine Counterpart, the Oracle has? Being able to pick from a list of abilities to reflect their Mystery (ie Bloodline).
The Wildblooded Archetype attempted this but forced you to take X powers even if you only wanted one of those listed for that Bloodline Archetype.
The Oracle gets to cherry pick her powers. The Sorcerer has to take what is listed or switch out conditionally, all or nothing.
Basically why not create a list of powers that a sorcerer of X bloodline could pick from.
They get a Bloodline power at 1st, 3rd, 9th, 15th and 20th plus an arcana.
Rather than a set hard coded list of powers let them pick from a list. Im talking like adding 3-5 powers to each bloodline that can be picked from.
Example
Draconic Bloodline: Fear Aura, Draconic Lore (+ bonus spells known), Draconic Senses (increased perception, Darkvision, etc), Draconic Soul (Counts as dragon subtype). Plus those already listed some would have level requirements.
Abyssal: Telepathy, Summon Demon minion, Demonic Familiar, Self only teleport (most demons have this), etc….
Basically make each bloodline more like the Oracle Mysteries in their flexibility.
Kalyth wrote: Why not allow Sorcerers to trade out their Bloodline Bonus Feats for Alternate Class Options.
Or give Sorcerers the options that their Divine Counterpart, the Oracle has? Being able to pick from a list of abilities to reflect their Mystery (ie Bloodline).
The Wildblooded Archetype attempted this but forced you to take X powers even if you only wanted one of those listed for that Bloodline Archetype.
The Oracle gets to cherry pick her powers. The Sorcerer has to take what is listed or switch out conditionally, all or nothing.
Basically why not create a list of powers that a sorcerer of X bloodline could pick from.
They get a Bloodline power at 1st, 3rd, 9th, 15th and 20th plus an arcana.
Rather than a set hard coded list of powers let them pick from a list. Im talking like adding 3-5 powers to each bloodline that can be picked from.
Example
Draconic Bloodline: Fear Aura, Draconic Lore (+ bonus spells known), Draconic Senses (increased perception, Darkvision, etc), Draconic Soul (Counts as dragon subtype). Plus those already listed some would have level requirements.
Abyssal: Telepathy, Summon Demon minion, Demonic Familiar, Self only teleport (most demons have this), etc….
Basically make each bloodline more like the Oracle Mysteries in their flexibility.
One option I've toyed with is giving Sorcerers _corruption_ which represents the close association with magic actually potentially deforming the Sorcerer and giving him/her not only an exotic/inhuman appearance, but powers associated with that inhuman appearance.
Corruption is a pool of points which the Sorcerer can draw on to increase his/her magic but at the cost of such deformation. It is why many power hungry Sorcerers end up wearing hooded cloaks and hiding their apperance. The deformation, also, grants additional powers (for example, the Sorcerer's corruption may cause his hands to grow bone thin with long fingers and razor sharp nails or may, at high levels of corruption, make the Sorcerer so emaciated that he actually appears undead). The player can choose how his deformation looks (with substantial diversity - unearthly beauty, hideous ugliness, abolethian, clockwork, fey, etc.).
Corruption and deformation aren't inevitable for a Sorcerer, a careful Sorcerer can reach level 20 without corruption. But, it is a risk the Sorcerer character can choose to take. Since most Sorcerers have some amount of corruption, sorcerers tend to look at least somewhat exotic/inhuman.
But keep in mind that I've substatially altered the Sorcerer because I *hate* bloodlines.
Magic of the Inner Sea adds a Tattoo Magic sorcerer archetype that can work with any bloodline. You give up some of the bloodline abilities, and gain a pile of Varisian Tattoos (in addition to the school of magic, all bloodline spells count for the tatt bonus).
LilithsThrall wrote: But keep in mind that I've substatially altered the Sorcerer because I *hate* bloodlines. I like bloodlines myself, but they shouldn't be the end-all-be-all of the class they are now. However, with a little additional (more like alternate) fluff and things can easily be reflavored.
Someone in your family tree did a favor for some disguised, powerful being and said being has returned the favor by granting your character her bloodline powers. Genies, dragons, and fey are all immortal and might not repay a kindness in the lifetime of the person who did the favor, so the boon shows up several generations later.
The Dark Powers (TM) want to corrupt an innocent soul, and grant a so-called "boon" to your character.
Mom gets caught in a fire (cold snap, lightning strike, flood, ect) and survives only long enough to deliver her child, who is forever marked by the power that nearly ended her life before it began.
And so on. The framework can be used for a variety of explanations.
There is an oracle/sorcerer archetype in the pathfinder soc. field guide. Quite a nice one too if memory serves.
Jason Ellis 350 wrote: The Dark Powers (TM) want to corrupt an innocent soul, and grant a so-called "boon" to your character.
Mom gets caught in a fire (cold snap, lightning strike, flood, ect) and survives only long enough to deliver her child, who is forever marked by the power that nearly ended her life before it began.
And so on. The framework can be used for a variety of explanations.
..All cool ideas and the kinds of sorcerers I play, but have nothing to do with bloodlines.
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