Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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I hate to be a downer, but as a game store owner I cannot agree with this. Well, partially (I'd love to see redemption codes for PDFs, but understand that that is not feasible).
I use Paizo's PDF price on their core books ($10) as a way to sell my books. I offer a $10 discount so that my customer can "get the PDF for free." Try it; it works every time. I also offer a 20% discount on all preorders of published RPG product. This keeps my price near what Paizo is offering (and other online retailers) and gives customers a chance to shop with me.
Pathfinder RPG products are by far and away the number one selling RPG product in my store. Sales in those products, and the player base those sales create, are largely responsible for the large amount of side line sales that my store has (maps, dice, minis, etc.).
In no way is Paizo competition. The person who goes to their site to buy the "cheaper" products from them will end up shopping with Amazon if Paizo enacts policies that even their pricing model out with brick and mortar stores.
I say this to store owners everywhere: showcase your store and offer different reasons besides product sales to turn your customers into a loyal purchasing base. You exist to serve them. They do not exist to shop with you. You need to provide a reason for them to shop with you. Find that reason (and more like them), and you will gain customers who will support you.
I can't find the posts at the moment, but there have been a couple threads on exactly this subject. In them Paizo does show that they have considered various options for allowing PDFs to be bundled with brick and mortar store purchases and, at that point just a little while back, how none of the solutions would work for both Paizo and the other retailers.
So they are considering what you ask for, but it still may not be a possibility right now (although their ability to do so may improve as time goes on).
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I use Paizo's PDF price on their core books ($10) as a way to sell my books. I offer a $10 discount so that my customer can "get the PDF for free." Try it; it works every time. I also offer a 20% discount on all preorders of published RPG product. This keeps my price near what Paizo is offering (and other online retailers) and gives customers a chance to shop with me.Pathfinder RPG products are by far and away the number one selling RPG product in my store. Sales in those products, and the player base those sales create, are largely responsible for the large amount of side line sales that my store has (maps, dice, minis, etc.).
In no way is Paizo competition. The person who goes to their site to buy the "cheaper" products from them will end up shopping with Amazon if Paizo enacts policies that even their pricing model out with brick and mortar stores.
I say this to store owners everywhere: showcase your store and offer different reasons besides product sales to turn your customers into a loyal purchasing base. You exist to serve them. They do not exist to shop with you. You need to provide a reason for them to shop with you. Find that reason (and more like them), and you will gain customers who will support you.
Thank you for this. I wish more game store owners understood this. It's basic retail marketing, but my local stores would rather give their pathfinder customers attitude than take advantage of this. One shop marks up Paizo an extra 10% above MSRP, another barely carries any. Once I would buy something every time I walked into a game shop, even if it was just single die. No more. Now I won't so much as buy a soda from their vending machine. They lost me as a customer, not due to Paizo's business practices, but their own.
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I have to join in with Drogon here: it's not that Paizo offers a better deal that is pulling your customer away, it's that your customer has no reason to be loyal to anything other than a good deal.
I hope that doesn't sound as mean as it does while I am reading again, because I don't know how else to say it.
I am a firm supporter of my FLGS - I shop there for everything that I can get there, even when it is more expensive. I also heavily encourage my gaming group to do the same, and they comply.
The store gets our support because of its environment, the people that work there, the number of cool events they run in store (I missed the miniature painting tutorials they hosted and gave away free brushes for attending, and the character art tutorial someone ran there, but I have seen the store packed for a number of board game or card game nights), and because they happen to give you a 10% discount to use as you choose (within the next 30 days) every time your purchases at the store hit a #100 benchmark, which really helps with big purchases.
If they started being able to offer PDFs with my in store purchases, I wouldn't be mad... but I'm not asking for them.
I would rather pay retail price to make sure I am supporting my FLGS as much as I can so they can stay open for business, and I would rather pay full PDF price to make sure I am supporting Paizo as much as I can so they keep making the products I love.
...unfortunately, I know I am the minority since I am more concerned with my FLGS and my game designers getting what they deserve than I am with getting a good deal.
As somebody who works in a FLGS I salute your attitude Sir! The key here for the OP is that you don't have to compete with Paizo. OK so you can't offer PDFs, what you can bring to this is a face to talk to not just a shopping cart. People appreciate being able to talk to someone about a product before they decide to purchase it (or not). Also do not forget that with the advent of the beginners box there will be another great way to introduce people to PF!
Right, I hope this wasn't too garbled but if it is then let me know and I'll try to make more sense...
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I am just offering some advice as a consumer. For me a FLGS needs to offer things that I can't get online. I am not talking about discounts, though they help, but other services. Where I live there use to a shop in the city a number of years ago. It is now out of business but not cause it was poorly run, but because some drunk teen with no car insurance drove his car threw the store and destroyed the shop and the building. The shop owners insurances wasn't enough to get everything fixed so he had to close up shop sadly.
Some of the things he did was the following and he had a pretty loyal customer base.
1) If you ordered something from him. Not only would you get it but he would keep you updated if it was going to be longer than he first thought. Also even if the book was out of print he always would find a copy. Sometimes it took him awhile and he would call and say he found book X and it would cost X amount, do you still want it. If you said yes he would get it for you.
2) He had game space for players to use for free. In his store it was a backroom. Anyone could go back there and watch or try and join a game but it also keep some privacy between the main shop and the games.
3) He would hold sanctioned events at his shop. Typically on those days he would have a raffle, either giving away a product of the event for free or like 20 dollars of store credit.
4) He would hold other events. Like a miniatures painting night. You could come in and get tips and use some of the store stuff to paint with. Like little arm things forget what they are called to hold a mini in place. A magnifying glass for detailed work. Or he would have a RPG day, where he would get some of the loyal customers to run demo games for a wide variety of RPG's anyone could join to let people try other games. He would do the same for card games, mini games, board games etc.
5) On the days there was events his wife would make a bunch of sandwiches and drinks etc and he would sell food and drink at a reasonable price.
6) He would answer questions and if he didn't know the answer he would right it down with your number and then find out the answer and call you back later to let you know. Any question about gaming only obviously. :)
7) The place was always clean, well lite and he and his staff was always friendly and made you feel like a welcomed guest.
8) He had a newsletter that keep everyone informed of any events going on, major things going on in the industry etc.
9) Gamer connection, a board with all kinds of local games and groups. he went out of his way to help network gamers with each other.
I use to buy everything from him while his store was still around. Anyways just some things that i wish more FLGS did personally. To be fair my list is from memory from a number of years back, so while the gist is accurate the details might be a bit fuzzy.
i live in seattle have been buying all my pathfinder products at one of the few FLGS left in the city because i know they are struggling and i think they vital to maintaining the hobby. Even though they sell a decent amount of pathfinder products they focus their in store events on 4E encounters and friday night magic because they get support from wizards to run the events. I inquired about pathfinder and they were interested in running pathfinder events but when i asked if they knew about pathfinder society play they had no clue what i was talking about. wow...seattle is paizo's backyard and one of the last retail outlets for their products doesn't know about society play ? im not saying the store isnt partly to blame for not looking into it but i fairly certain they would have been happy to if paizo offered a little support. maybe the box set will change things. i certainly hope so. id love to go into my FLGS and see it full of people playing pathfinder instead of 4e and magic.
Remorhaz, can you point your FLGS to our retailer locator? The more people that can find a local gaming store, the better!
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i live in seattle have been buying all my pathfinder products at one of the few FLGS left in the city because i know they are struggling and i think they vital to maintaining the hobby. Even though they sell a decent amount of pathfinder products they focus their in store events on 4E encounters and friday night magic because they get support from wizards to run the events. I inquired about pathfinder and they were interested in running pathfinder events but when i asked if they knew about pathfinder society play they had no clue what i was talking about. wow...seattle is paizo's backyard and one of the last retail outlets for their products doesn't know about society play ? im not saying the store isnt partly to blame for not looking into it but i fairly certain they would have been happy to if paizo offered a little support. maybe the box set will change things. i certainly hope so. id love to go into my FLGS and see it full of people playing pathfinder instead of 4e and magic.
If you have the store's information, I'd be happy to get in touch with them to try and set things up for them. Unfortunately, while I do my best to foster the growth of PFS around the Seattle area, some stores do slip through the cracks, so if you like send me their info at SeattlePFS@gmail.com or give them that e-mail to get in touch with me.
-Dane Pitchford, Seattle Venture-Captain
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I try to stay out of the conversations because I know that employees of the FLGS near by peruse these messageboards, but to all those out there that are telling the above owner that he could offer other stuff to get buyers business, there are those that still even with everything you mention would still rarely buy stuff at his store.
And this is why I don't get in to these threads, I know there is because I am one of them.
Without the ability for the FLGS to offer Bundled PDFs or compete with Amazon, which both are unreasonable expectations, my FLGS is unlikely to have my full time business for all my RPG needs.
I am happy they offer space for our PFS games, but that is not enough to get my Business, I could always find space some where else.
The threat of them going out of business is not enough to get my business since I rarely use them for my business anyway, in fact it has been a very long time since the majority of my RPG funds have gone to any FLGS.
They could not offer a Discount that would be enough for me and still expect to get me as a regular customer because they just can't compete with Amazon or the Bundled PDF I get from Paizo.
To me it comes down to what I am getting with my money, not the other fringe benefits that are offered. So customers like myself he is correct, without the ability to offer me a Bundled PDF or Amazon prices He will never get my business for my main purchases.
Though I do buy stuff from the FLGS near by it is rare and for only stuff that in the end is cheaper to get through him that I can't get through Amazon or even with the Discount through Paizo is still cheaper to buy at the store because of lack of shipping fees, or stuff I need right there and then. Those kind of purchases are rare though. In the full year I have been here I am maybe just passed the $100 mark in the amount of money I have spent at the local store, compared to the $1900+ I have spent at Paizo.
Right now what I get from the FLGS is a place for our PFS plays and cover price on everything, they don't over any discounts on any products. I get Huge discounts at Amazon which is unreasonable for me to expect any store to be able to match, but at the same time knowing that does not stop me from ordering from Amazon. I get a 15% discount from Paizo from almost everything in the online store and a PDF for all their books, if Paizo did not offer the PDF Bundle the majority of the $1900 I have spent over the year here in San Antonio most likely would have gone to Amazon not the Local store.
Really the only way the Local store would get my Business was if I got a Free PDF with every Paizo purchase and the lack of paying for shipping offset me losing the 15% discount I get at Paizo *I have not figured out that math yet*.
So for customers like me the store owner who started this thread, he is right Without the ability for the bundled PDF he would not get my business.
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I try to stay out of the conversations because I know that employees of the FLGS near by peruse these messageboards, but to all those out there that are telling the above owner that he could offer other stuff to get buyers business, there are those that still even with everything you mention would still rarely buy stuff at his store.
And this is why I don't get in to these threads, I know there is because I am one of them.
Without the ability for the FLGS to offer Bundled PDFs or compete with Amazon, which both are unreasonable expectations, my FLGS is unlikely to have my full time business for all my RPG needs.
I am happy they offer space for our PFS games, but that is not enough to get my Business, I could always find space some where else.
The threat of them going out of business is not enough to get my business since I rarely use them for my business anyway, in fact it has been a very long time since the majority of my RPG funds have gone to any FLGS.
They could not offer a Discount that would be enough for me and still expect to get me as a regular customer because they just can't compete with Amazon or the Bundled PDF I get from Paizo.
To me it comes down to what I am getting with my money, not the other fringe benefits that are offered. So customers like myself he is correct, without the ability to offer me a Bundled PDF or Amazon prices He will never get my business for my main purchases.
Though I do buy stuff from the FLGS near by it is rare and for only stuff that in the end is cheaper to get through him that I can't get through Amazon or even with the Discount through Paizo is still cheaper to buy at the store because of lack of shipping fees, or stuff I need right there and then. Those kind of purchases are rare though. In the full year I have been here I am maybe just passed the $100 mark in the amount of money I have spent at the local store, compared to the $1900+ I have spent at Paizo.
Right now what I get from the FLGS is a place for our PFS plays and cover price on...
Then there is very little he would be able to do to get your business. Competing does not mean "offer what others offer." Instead, in business, it means to "provide better service or product than the other businesses." This means that offering the PDF bundle is not going to cut it. He needs to figure out what other services and products the customers want and do his best to provide that.
Some things I look for in my FLGS:
1) Variety of gaming products. I don't think that everything should be carried but there should be enough variety in game systems that I feel like I can order just about anything.
2) Provide a board so I can see what others in the area are playing. Meeting other gamers is a great way to increase business
3) Offer a way for me to communicate or order via email or some other online option. Sometimes I have a hard time getting there. I have ordered things and the staff have droppped it off personally at my house if I couldn't get to them.
4) Be active in the gaming community. Go to local conventions. Stay in touch with other stores. If you can't provide something but you know who can, either send me to them or get it from them. If you want my business, then provide for my needs. I may not give you the $30 for book X, but I will end up giving you $20 for book Y and Z.
5) Offer discounts. If there is something interesting going on, tie them together. Jason Buhlman just had a birthday. Offer a Buhlman discount for that week, buy one Pathfinder product, get the next at half off.
Competing means that you bring in customers by doing what the other guy isn't. If you offer the same thing, you aren't competing. You are mimicking.
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Stuff
My point it, none of that matter to me and would not get my Business, and the same is true for others I am sure.
For some of us it all comes down to the mighty dollar, Offering other fringe stuff will not get me to buy at your store.
What will get me to buy at your store is what gets me to buy here, a PDF/Book bundle or a Large Discount, both unreasonable expectations for the store to be able to do.
In other words, since what I want is unreasonable because it is out of his reach, he will not have my business, but since others online can offer what I want they do get my business.
And the vast majority of FLGS can't give me the Discount that Amazon can so offering discounts won't get my business either since I can still get better there with free shipping.
Really there is nothing a FLGS can do short of matching Amazon prices or Book/PDF bundles to get the business of a purchaser like myself.
Really there is nothing a FLGS can do short of matching Amazon prices or Book/PDF bundles to get the business of a purchaser like myself.
Same here, sadly.
StuffMy point it, none of that matter to me and would not get my Business, and the same is true for others I am sure.
For some of us it all comes down to the mighty dollar, Offering other fringe stuff will not get me to buy at your store.
What will get me to buy at your store is what gets me to buy here, a PDF/Book bundle or a Large Discount, both unreasonable expectations for the store to be able to do.
In other words, since what I want is unreasonable because it is out of his reach, he will not have my business, but since others online can offer what I want they do get my business.
And the vast majority of FLGS can't give me the Discount that Amazon can so offering discounts won't get my business either since I can still get better there with free shipping.
Really there is nothing a FLGS can do short of matching Amazon prices or Book/PDF bundles to get the business of a purchaser like myself.
That's why the first thing I said was that they aren't going to be able to do much to get your business. They need to provide what someone else is providing. That's not an option unfortunately. Everything I mentioned is was to increase the value of your dollar with them. If the only thing that will bring you to their store is a PDF then they don't suit your needs. That's just the way it goes sometimes. They need to focus on the majority. The need for PDFs is probably not a majority of customers.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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Oddly enough, the posts by people who don't visit their FLGS have re-inspired me to go to mine.I am there at least every other weekend, never said I did not go there a lot, Just said I don't spend a lot of money there.
Though I don't spend money there, the many people I bring there through PFS do.
Dragnmoon, Hogarth, you are the customers I'm talking about when I said this:
The person who goes to their site to buy the "cheaper" products from them will end up shopping with Amazon if Paizo enacts policies that even their pricing model out with brick and mortar stores.
And there is nothing wrong with that. It just illustrates my point: you don't exist to support your local game store. We (the game stores) are here to work with you and provide a service. If you buy things from us (even dice or wet erase markers) then we are doing our jobs. If you bring a bunch of players in who do spend a bunch of money buying books, then we are doing our jobs. And thank you for giving us the chance to to do them. Even indirectly, you're supporting those stores.
One of my most loyal customers, someone I count a friend, someone who is in one of my home games, someone I grant a 40% discount to, doesn't buy a single Paizo book from my store. Why? Because he likes having every book as a PDF and doesn't want to lug around the weight of paper. Even with a 40% discount, he still wouldn't buy books from me if they came with a free PDF; that's how much he hates paper books. But he makes tons of money for me in other ways (why else would I give him a 40% discount?).
To everyone who will make all of their purchases at an LGS: you're awesome. I'm glad you've found a reason to support them. I hope they continue to provide reasons for you to maintain your loyalty.
That said, it isn't necessary to beat the OP (or other game store owners) all about the head and shoulders with reasons you won't shop with us. We understand that not everyone will buy our stuff just because we have it. It's the nature of a market economy. We'll survive, so long as we find other customers and give them a reason to shop with us.
Stuff
The problem with this attitude though is that our hobby is small and is not leaning towards growth. If people decide all they care about is cheaper books, the hobby will continue to contract, fewer books will be published, meaning the hobby contracts more until all that remains is a hobby, with no business.
Supporting a "good" FLGS helps build the hobby. The game store is a place for people to show up and interact with others, learning more about the hobby and becoming more involved. Of course this is dependent on the game store providing such an environment. They can't provide those environments if they can't make money. Now this might mean they have to find other ways to monetize besides selling books.
Gaming is about hanging out with people and interacting. You don't do that at normal retail stores. You don't go to Wal-mart or Amazon and ask people about they're favorite activities, or watch them. If you like gaming (which by how much money you say you spend, I gather you do) the FLGS is a corner stone of growing the industry.
Can online stores still provide a sense of community? Yes they can. Kickstarter isn't exactly a store, but it both taps into and creates a community. As does Paizo with PFS and these messageboards. While Amazon can provide great prices, there is little to no sense of community there. Amazon can create buzz for products, but that will only be for the best selling products. There's no real opportunity to discuss with others.
There's more at stake here than just the price of books.
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Stuff and...
There's more at stake here than just the price of books.
And this is another reason I don't like posting in threads on this subject.
I sooner or later get this opinion from someone.
The days we need Brick and Mortar stores to keep this hobby going are long gone, the internet these days is enough to keep it going, anything a Store can do can be done by other means.
Don't get me wrong, I don't mind playing there for my PFS game, but I don't do it because I feel the need to support it to keep the hobby going, I do because it happens to be a good central location for my players, but if the Store was not there I would find my players in other ways, and still get my stuff in other ways *I already do*. 90% of my players had nothing to do with the store.
In all of San Antonio there is One place you would call a FLGS, and still the hobby thrives here, and would without the FLGS.
We are not here to support the store, they are here to support us, If they disappear the Hobby will still find a means to get to the fans and to new ones.
Not saying that the a FLGS does not help, but I am saying that FLGS are not an essential, "oh my god they can't do without it" part of the hobby anymore.
Edit: I want to add something, There are ways I do buy from Stores, ones that also have an Internet store, when I am trying to find stuff that are hard to find and out of print, I find some of the best in stores that also have an Internet Online store, I am surprised more have not gone this route. Sometime I wonder when I can't find something online how many stores out there actually do have what I am looking for, but because they don't have an Internet store I will never know.
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In conclusion of my posts in this thread. *Unless I am called out directly with a specific non offensive question*
For customers like me offering extra stuff at the store outside of the price of the product and what I get with the product will not get our business, many of that stuff was already listed in this thread so I won't list what they are, though I am aware that it does help with other customers so keep on keeping on.
Offering Discounts will not get our business because you can't compete with Amazon and it is unreasonable to expect that from you, though I am aware that it does help with other customers so keep on keeping on.
Trying to put a Guilt-Trip on us saying it is good for the Gaming Business will not get our business, if anything that will lose me all together.
You are not going to get PDF/Book bundles any time soon, so complaining about that does not help either, though The starting post was mostly a request with only a little of complaint, requesting is fine, but know that at this time it is not going to happen, but Paizo is always looking at a way for it to. If it ever did happen the Local store may get my business, depends if losing the 15% discount here is worth it.
Things personally for me that do get business from me, Buying and selling of older products and out of print products and offering that online, that is my main expenditure when it comes to stores.
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One of my most loyal customers, someone I count a friend, someone who is in one of my home games, someone I grant a 40% discount to, doesn't buy a single Paizo book from my store. Why? Because he likes having every book as a PDF and doesn't want to lug around the weight of paper. Even with a 40% discount, he still wouldn't buy books from me if they came with a free PDF; that's how much he hates paper books. But he makes tons of money for me in other ways (why else would I give him a 40% discount?).
Just wanted to comment on this as this kinda is similar to me. In the two groups I game with I am the only one that subscribes to Paizo. Yet all the people in both groups buy some Pathfinder stuff and mostly buy it from FLGS. Often a lot of the stuff they buy is copies of new books I bring to the game. They look at it, like it and then want it. They go the next week to the FLGS and buy it. Some of them do order from Amazon instead. I think the FLGS would get even more business if they did some of the stuff I listed before that the old store use to do. Back then everyone I gamed with bought from the same store to support it cause of the other stuff they offered.
Anyways I just find this a interesting topic. I know brick and mortar stores are in danger of going away. I don't want to see that happen, but then they also need to offer me a reason to buy stuff from them and go by the store.
CEO
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Just wanted to make a note that we do NOT offer print/PDF bundles on paizo.com through any other mechanism other than subscriptions. If you bought a copy of Ultimate Magic today, you would just get the print book and wouldn't get a PDF. There is a lot of talk about offering the print/PDF bundles like they do on paizo.com without folks realizing that it is only a subscription perk and does not last past the subscription. Which is one of the reasons why we can't offer this to retail stores. Because WE don't offer it ourselves for ongoing purchases once the product is released.
Just a FYI...
-Lisa
OP! There may be useful info here for you. Seriously, I'd read this.
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All I want is the ability to offer Paizo PDFs with books. I'll even pay for them! I'd rather buy a PDF for $10 and offer it with the book to my customers than offer them a $10 discount on the books.
You could implement this in a roundabout fashion by using a ten dollar gift certificate, and printing off the code for the customer. Not the most elegant solution in the world but..
http://paizo.com/paizo/about/giftCertificates/v5748btpy8bkw&source=sear ch
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The person who goes to their site to buy the "cheaper" products from them will end up shopping with Amazon if Paizo enacts policies that even their pricing model out with brick and mortar stores.
Not really. Some of us thinks FLGS are useless and have given us nothing but trouble over the years. If my local FLGS price on products and Paizo's were the same, I'd STILL order from paizo over the local game store. Hell,if it were higher by a couple bucks I still would order online. shopping in confy slipeprs vs a 45 minute(minium) car ride on the off chance they have something is no contest
Stores around me I wouldnt piss on if they were on fire. Other people's milage may vary.
Well right now Paizo's $10 PDF pricing equals about the only thing that I can afford. I do see why Black Diamond Games is noting an across the board increase in most RPG sales. If I weren't buying Pathfinder PDFs I would be buying nothing, and after a couple of years of buying nothing I'm likely to keep that trend going. On the other hand since I'm still buying some gaming stuff, that greatly increases the chance that I will buy a physical book at some point where I get a windfall.
As for most LGS's I think most of them are willing to pass up a quick nickle for a slow dime. Part of this is GAMMA's fault. For years the association pushed retailers to avoid discounting. If you'll pull some old books for the early to mid 1990s and check their prices against an inflation calculator, you'll see that game book prices have gone up faster than inflation. For example: "What cost $20 in 1994 would cost $29.04 in 2010 (http://www.westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi).
MSRP of Ultimate Magic: $40.00
Amazon Price: $23.99
In other words Amazon pulls the price down to something that is inflation adjusted inline with historical pricing.
On the other hand:
"What cost $20 in 2010 would cost $13.78 in 1994."
"What cost $10 in 2010 would cost $6.89 in 1994."
Pathfinder sales of non hardbacks are in line with inflation adjusted historical price of such supplements. Hum funny thing about that.
In case you hadn't noticed wages have,adjusted for inflation, been flat or declining for a decade (you know the time it took us to go from the next golden age of gaming to massive LGS closures). The truth of the matter is that retailers don't seem to need to beat Amazon's prices to increase sale so much as pull prices back to inflation adjusted historical levels.
To put it another way holding the line or discounting caused a greater loss of revenue from the decline of sell through rate than offering a discount on the product would have. Worse, as prices were rising faster than inflation in retail and slower on online discount gamers began to see their local stores as greedy and incompetent.
There is a lot of talk about stores needing to compete on service. There is some truth about this, nothing sells games as well of people playing games. On the other hand there are bigger structural challenges. When it comes to service what gamers really mean is that they want the books in the store on the day of their street date at a price equal to the inflation adjusted average (in other words at between a 10% and 20% discount on new hardbacks). The other service gamers are looking for is the ability to immediately pick up most major items in a game line so that they can quickly put a character with a bunch of options together (because actually playing games has been know to suddenly inspire players to drop $100 or more on player option books).
One of the big problems with all this is distribution. I can't count the number of times I've seen the owner of small shop somewhere either get stiffed on preorders or stalled for weeks or months by a distributor claiming that a book "isn't out yet." If the local store is telling you a book "isn't out," the internet says it is and Amazon has it ready to go then the store has just lost a sale (and gained a reputation for incompetence).
One of the reasons so many store owners get told that a book "isn't out yet" is that the distributor is only putting in one order and not planning to restock. The product went to online sellers and large accounts (chain bookstores, small game store chains and large single stores) and never made it to the outlying retailers. This is one reason we have so many D&D only stores. Cards sell much better than RPGs (sad but true) causing store owners to develop direct distribution relationships with WotC. A stable source of D&D products is only a byproduct of what retailers are really after, a stable source for cards.
Wow. I just checked the retail locator & PFS event listing.
There is not a single place listed in the whole of Connecticut.
Sad.
And retailers blame the Internet for their lack of business.
I'm equally disheartened by the lack of Oregon stores on the locator.
I've personally contacted the owners of 4 local-ish stores - in person, via their Facebook pages, and via direct email, to make them aware of the function, and they apparently have done nothing.
:(
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Wow. I just checked the retail locator & PFS event listing.
There is not a single place listed in the whole of Connecticut.
Sad.
And retailers blame the Internet for their lack of business.
I'm equally disheartened by the lack of Oregon stores on the locator.
I've personally contacted the owners of 4 local-ish stores - in person, via their Facebook pages, and via direct email, to make them aware of the function, and they apparently have done nothing.
:(
The only store within one hundred miles on the locator is in Portland, more than an hour away. Not a huge surprise.
The only store within one hundred miles on the locator is in Portland, more than an hour away. Not a huge surprise.
Yup.
Guardian Games is a great store, but there's several other great stores in the state, and it's beyond lame that they haven't registered.
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Wow. I just checked the retail locator & PFS event listing.
There is not a single place listed in the whole of Connecticut.
Sad.
For me, when I put 50 miles within my zip code, it spit out states that arent even close to NY, like CO, GA, TX.....
I must be doing it wrong. But even the 2-3 NY ones are no where near me.
shopping in confy slipeprs vs a 45 minute(minium) car ride on the off chance they have something is no contest
You do know there this new fangle invention called the telephone that allows to communicate with other people with telephones...I gurantee your (F?)LGS has one of these strange devices that you cvould use to see if they do have product x right? Wopuld save you that 45 min drive. ;)
I say this to store owners everywhere: showcase your store and offer different reasons besides product sales to turn your customers into a loyal purchasing base. You exist to serve them. They do not exist to shop with you. You need to provide a reason for them to shop with you. Find that reason (and more like them), and you will gain customers who will support you.
As a business professional and marketing guru I can only say you are 100% spot on. The retail environment has changed, and the FLGS scene pretty much failed to adapt.
Incidentally we have 2 gaming stores left in our city that I know of, and thats a city of five million, yet there are a ot of roleplayers. There's an opportunity there for an astute person!
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I say this to store owners everywhere: showcase your store and offer different reasons besides product sales to turn your customers into a loyal purchasing base. You exist to serve them. They do not exist to shop with you. You need to provide a reason for them to shop with you. Find that reason (and more like them), and you will gain customers who will support you.As a business professional and marketing guru I can only say you are 100% spot on. The retail environment has changed, and the FLGS scene pretty much failed to adapt.
Incidentally we have 2 gaming stores left in our city that I know of, and thats a city of five million, yet there are a ot of roleplayers. There's an opportunity there for an astute person!
So how do stores like Borders and Barnes & Noble fit into this? They're also getting skunked by Amazon, but they're still "around" (in a lessened capacity). Are they just money sinks now, or do people still go to them?
So how do stores like Borders and Barnes & Noble fit into this? They're also getting skunked by Amazon, but they're still "around" (in a lessened capacity). Are they just money sinks now, or do people still go to them?
This is how:
Australia:Borders raging success modelUS:Further awesome
VERY VERY far from 'around', I'd posit that if the stores here are the same as the stores there you now have the answer. they were ubiquitous in this country, and simply fell over one day after running themselves into the ground. Like the FLGS, they are out of touch.
Oh and our OTHER 'Giant Chain'
And retailers blame the Internet for their lack of business.
Because it is easier to blame faceless others than to accept that it was actually your own fault :p
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This is how:
Australia:Borders raging success model
US:Further awesomeVERY VERY far from 'around', I'd posit that if the stores here are the same as the stores there you now have the answer. they were ubiquitous in this country, and simply fell over one day after running themselves into the ground. Like the FLGS, they are out of touch.
Oh and our OTHER 'Giant Chain'
They are actually still around here. They're downsized, but not dead yet. I figured the remaining income (the reason Direct Brands wants some of Borders' locations) comes from Internet-illiterate people, name recognition, and/or impulse buying. FLGSs get money from the above (name recognition to a lesser extent), but they have other things going for them.
Well I think they are closer to 'Undead', as in they are dead, just those stores (for the time being) are still shuffling along and (according to the news linked) deeply in the red.
You are very much correct though on the sort of people they ARE selling to, but thats not a deliberate sales model they are running, thats just a default customer behaviour.
What I find is that most bookstores (including chains) tend to have staff that actually care and enjoy the products, and that touch has been what has dragged customers back - the businesses have capitalised on the goodwill of the staff and the monopoly they used to have. Now there are a whole lot of reasons NOT to go to the stores, and very few reasons to patronise them.
As a complete counterpoint to most FLGS doing it tough, I think that GamesWorkshop have one of the better systems in place, they have a model that works well for them. Go have a look at the sotres and the reason should be immediately obvious. Even then, I reckon theres room for improvement for them...
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As a complete counterpoint to most FLGS doing it tough, I think that GamesWorkshop have one of the better systems in place, they have a model that works well for them. Go have a look at the sotres and the reason should be immediately obvious. Even then, I reckon theres room for improvement for them...
Hmm. A Google search found two independent retailers for GamesWorkshop that I would call LGSs (one is a FLGS). Are independent retailers what you meant?
Just a quick note, borders isn't so much dead as murdered. They got bought out in a leveraged buyout by a bunch of hedge funds (this means the hedge funds mortgaged the company for the money to buy the company from its prior owners). When the economy went south borders could no longer afford to keep up payments on the loans for the buyout. The bottom line here is that encumbering a business with a bunch of debt that adds nothing to its operating capital is a bad idea.
The idea that the internet is killing big retail bookstores is false causation. The internet is causing a small drop in their traffic. To give an example, when you're paying 98% of your businesses income to service debt and the internet drops your sales by 3% you have a problem. This is why you have things like Borders being one step away from liquidation in the US and while their foreign stores, sold off to people paying cash, are doing very well. (It also doesn't help that a Bush era change to the bankruptcy code with regards to retail leases are pushing chains that would once have gone through restructuring onto the fast track for liquidation).
I'm talking about the Games Workshop 'Hobby centres'.
I don't happen to play WH40K ir anything (I have given it a go) and don't happen to have a thing for GW generally, I just noticed they have done reasonably well and have maintained and expanded their presence in this country when the competition was taking a dive.
Disagree with 'Murdered', it was slow suicide imo.
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Wow. I just checked the retail locator & PFS event listing.
There is not a single place listed in the whole of Connecticut.
Sad.
Our retail locator is still in it's infancy. More and more stores sign up every week! If you know of stores that are not on the list, encourage them to sign up! It does take a bit for the listing to show up, as customer service reads over the submissions before making them live on the site, but we do try to get them up as soon as possible.
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Wow. I just checked the retail locator & PFS event listing.
There is not a single place listed in the whole of Connecticut.
Sad.
And retailers blame the Internet for their lack of business.
I'm equally disheartened by the lack of Oregon stores on the locator.
I've personally contacted the owners of 4 local-ish stores - in person, via their Facebook pages, and via direct email, to make them aware of the function, and they apparently have done nothing.
:(
Yeah i was surprised their is only 1 of the 8 stores with in a hours drive of me that is signed up. The funny thing it was one of the stores i didn't even know existed till now. :)
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shopping in confy slipeprs vs a 45 minute(minium) car ride on the off chance they have something is no contest
You do know there this new fangle invention called the telephone that allows to communicate with other people with telephones...I gurantee your (F?)LGS has one of these strange devices that you cvould use to see if they do have product x right? Wopuld save you that 45 min drive. ;)
I guarentee it STILL doesnt save a 45 minute drive even if they do have it.(and small likelihood they do have it even if I call, given the last time I stopped in, having to doa service call in the area).
FLGS still are a waste, in comparison.