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You can do precision damage multiple times a round, as long as the conditions are met.IIRC that was true in 3.5 but not in 3.0 i think.
Anyway great thread, also hadn't spotted the 3 rounds casting time of lesser restoration, now remind me when you put a spell in a scroll it uses the casting time of the spell or it's always a standart action?
That was one of the changes between 3.5 and PF I picked up on. In PF a scroll is no longer a standard action it takes as long as it take to cast the spell.
Fear effects stack. For instance , a shaken character that gains the shaken condition again moves up to frightened and so on.
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OP here. I originally meant for this to be for PF rules, but I'm interested in things that are leftovers from 3.5 that most don't know. I just wanna get a better mastery of the rules!
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The biggest surprise to me when i came to pathfinder is that you get a new feat at every odd level.
Fear effects stack. For instance , a shaken character that gains the shaken condition again moves up to frightened and so on.
But, as an addendum, Pathfinder has introduced a bunch of fear effects that specifically don't stack in order to roll back the clock on that rule!
Animate Dead can be used to create nigh-unkillable skeletons at no extra cost (using the bloody skeleton template).
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In fact that's making me think a bit about my own role playing approach. My druid is currently without a companion, having lost her third companion in battle recently and deciding as penance to not take a new companion for a while. Perhaps her reaction to this will be to approach the animal companion experience differently and decide that she should experience a wide range of companions WITHOUT killing them off.
I had a similar experience recently--my Lion Shaman's companion was killed and the character was distraught and unsure if he was worthy even to have a new companion. I emailed the DM about my "role-playing quandary" and asked if I could perhaps take a domain instead of getting a new companion right away (with the understanding that I could switch back at an appropriate point in the future), and he agreed. In the end, he devised a way to bring my original lion back within the context of the story, which was pretty cool.
I had a similar experience recently--my Lion Shaman's companion was killed and the character was distraught and unsure if he was worthy even to have a new companion. I emailed the DM about my "role-playing quandary" and asked if I could perhaps take a domain instead of getting a new companion right away (with the understanding that I could switch back at an appropriate point in the future), and he agreed. In the end, he devised a way to bring my original lion back within the context of the story, which was pretty cool.
Was the lion named Aslan?
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This thread is fantastic. Dotting.
...Catch Phrase,
-Chris
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if a creature has immunity to cold/fire it automatically has vulnerability to the opposite. though I think this is going to be errattad apparently its so obscure last time it was brought up two of the developers did not know ot existed.
This is not entirely true. I read it in another thread about a week ago, and it was confirmed by one of the developers - if I remember correctly, it was James Jacobs:
Creatures with the fire subtype are immune to fire and vulnerable to cold.
Creatures with the cold subtype are immune to cold and vulnerable to fire.
But an immunity doesn't automatically bring along a vulnerability.
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That was one of the changes between 3.5 and PF I picked up on. In PF a scroll is no longer a standard action it takes as long as it take to cast the spell.You can do precision damage multiple times a round, as long as the conditions are met.IIRC that was true in 3.5 but not in 3.0 i think.
Anyway great thread, also hadn't spotted the 3 rounds casting time of lesser restoration, now remind me when you put a spell in a scroll it uses the casting time of the spell or it's always a standart action?
Wow. That is a subtle but significant change:
3.5:
"Activating a spell completion item is a standard action and provokes attacks of opportunity exactly as casting a spell does."PF:
"Activating a spell completion item is a standard action (or the spell's casting time, whichever is longer) and provokes attacks of opportunity exactly as casting a spell does."
Yeah I found it because a player in one of my groups was abusing the heck out of it...so I was hoping for them to fix it.
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Summary through Post 114
Frequently Unknown Rules (through post 114)
Link to this thread
Change from SRD/D&D to Pathfinder
1. Bardic abilities no longer based on Perform skill other than Countersong and Distraction.
2. Many Shot and Rapid Shot can now be used together.
3. Spiked chain no longer has reach.
4. Anything that improves attack rolls improves CMB, including weapon feats if using weapon for the special attack.
5. Paladin double of smite against some creatures is on first attack only.
6. Sneak attack and critical damage applies to many additional creatures, including undead and constructs.
7. Magic item creation no longer uses XP.
8. Characters can draw a weapon during a charge, but can only charge a single move distance.
9. Magic item creation vastly changed.
10. Dodge applies to all opponents, not just one specified opponent.
11. Improved Trip and Improved Disarm split into a feat tree (Improved and Greater)
12. Grapple works differently.
13. Weapon enhancement bonus (the plus portion, not the cost equivalent) overcomes various DR at different DR than just magic
14. Elves sleep, but are still immune to magical sleep.
15. Concentration is no longer a skill. New mechanic makes it tougher for multi-classed characters.
16. Many save-or-die and save-or-suck spells have re-saves or more limited effects.
17. Cantrips are at-will.
18. Indentification of magic items changed significantly (see detect magic, identify, and Spellcraft)
19. Power Attack, Cleave, and Greater Cleave all different.
20. Clerics don’t get heavy armor proficiency, get proficiency with deities favored weapon, and need a feat to turn undead.
21. Fighters can retrain bonus feats.
22. Scrolls take a standard action, but longer if the spell contained has a longer casting time. (This may have been added in D&D add-on material as well, such as Rules Compendium).
23. Feats at every odd level instead of 1, 3, 6, 9, etc.
Always like this, but frequently misplayed or subject to oversight
1. Inspire courage is free action to continue once having started.
2. Animal companions can be dismissed at will and replaced with 24 hours; note that new companion requires training other than bonus feats.
3. Ranged attacks suffer from cover from objects, enemies, or allies. Allies often overlooked. Applies to reach weapons as well.
4. Weapons and armor must have +1 enhancement prior to gaining additional enchantments.
5. Readying an action is a standard action. One can move first, and then ready. The readied action itself can be a standard, move, free, or swift action. (Note: could not explicitly be swift in SRD 3.5; swift was not in the SRD.) Can include 5’ step as part of the readied action if no other movement in either the readied action or prior to the readied action during regular turn.
6. Lesser Restoration is a three round casting time. Usually, this means it isn’t used during combat. Potion of lesser restoration is good for in combat, tho.
7. Immunity to cold/fire gives vulnerability to opposite.
8. Elementals are immune to flanking and critical hits.
9. Enlarge person has a 1 round casting time.
10. Sneak attack and other precision damage applies to every attack in a round, not just once per round.
11. Characters who use the run action lose Dex bonus to AC, and thus are subject to sneak attack.
12. Dimensional anchor has no saving throw, just spell resistance.
13. Spells can crit if they have an attack roll.
14. Creatures can often overcome the DR that is needed to hit them (magic, epic, etc.)
15. Characters and creatures can charge a single move distance as a standard action if limited to a single action, such as during a surprise round. This doesn’t mean you can opt to only charge as a standard action if you have a full round of actions available.
16. Coup de grace can be performed against a creature with total concealment, such as invisibility, by using two full round actions.
17. Ride-by Attack is still a mess.
18. Empower spell only applies to the rolled portion of the effect.
19. Harm….does what?
20. Rules for tying up a character are in Grapple section.
21. Summon spells have 1 round casting times, even from wands.
22. Grease can be used to disarm.
23. Fear effects stack or escalate; characters can become more fearful.
Excellent list Howie!
Addendum to A.19: Combat Expertise was changed similarly to Power Attack.
The withdraw action allows up to double your move, like a charge does. I don't know whether it was always that way, or where the misconception came from, but for most of our 3.5 days we only allowed you withdraw at your normal speed, which made running away effectively impossible.
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However, as a GM, if a druid's player kept dismissing animal companions for convenience, I would probably his his/her deity or Mother Nature herself visit them and have the druid explain, in character, why doing that was not a callous and selfish action.
I have no problem with the druid dismissing his companion and calling a different one.
However, I despise if the druid uses his companion as a meat shield and gets it killed every other combat (which happened in my campaign). That's when nature's agents start to intervene, because that is not survival of the fittest.| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Here's one that carried over from 3.5 but I never noticed till reading the pathfinder rules.
You can add the half-dragon template to dragons. When I noticed this I tried to look up stuff on it and found stats for a Half-White Copper Dragon in Wizard's 3.5 archives.
That...is actually a really sexy concept. I've always wanted to make "Mixed-Blood Dragons" in my games, but never had the energy to try and balance it out. Lo and behold, it turns out the answer was in front of me all along.
Makes me think of the mix-breeds being the "New Kids on the Block" while the true-reds and true-blues are old fuddy-duddies complaining about "Kids Today."
...Catch Phrase,
-Chris
P.S. - Excellent list. Love this thread.
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The withdraw action allows up to double your move, like a charge does.
Also, with a withdraw action, you're only safe from AoO on the first 5 feet; if you leave a threatened field after the first, you're still subject to attacks of opportunity.
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The withdraw action allows up to double your move, like a charge does.Also, with a withdraw action, you're only safe from AoO on the first 5 feet; if you leave a threatened field after the first, you're still subject to attacks of opportunity.
I thought it was you can only withdraw without AoOs from creatures already threatening you. Otherwise it is useless to withdraw from a creature with any kind of reach.
EDIT: Well that's what it should be, for stated reason.
Which is why I edited my post..
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Excellent list Howie!
Thanks. I've incorporated the stuff from Beckett's older list and will include in later update. Note, I'm not covering all the spell changes and feat changes, just some key ones. If someone else wants to do those, go for it. My general approach on those is to assume they ARE different, since so many have changed. :)
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No one has mentioned the Pathfinder changes to incorperal creatures. No longer, when attacking with magic weapons, is there a 50% miss chance, rather, the incorperal creature takes half damage. Bet most people don't know that.
And one I just found, if one does use a Ghost Touch weapon (which negates the half damage), you CAN crit / sneak attack an incorperal creature.
An ironic consequence of the rule about applying the qualifier that overcomes your DR to your attacks occurred to me. By that rule, a Solar's attacks are considered evil, and a Pit Fiend's are considered good.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 4
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Three changes to Grapple that caught me by surprise when first trying to use them:
Grapplers no longer share a space. When grappling, creatures remain in adjacent squares. The random chance for a ranged attacker to target incorrectly has been removed as a result. In 3.5 you moved into the target's space when grappling.
Grapplers no longer lose their DEX bonus to AC against other foes, meaning you can't automatically sneak attack someone because they're grappled (although flanking them to sneak is easier). In 3.5 grappling was a good way to grant automatic sneak attacks.
A grappled creature can attack other foes within reach. Such an attack is at -2 to hit. In 3.5 a grappler had to focus solely on his grappling opponent.
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8. Characters can draw a weapon during a charge, but can only charge a single move distance.
That's only during a charge in a round where only a standard action is allowed. Charges can still be double move distance if taken as a full-round action. The weapon can only be drawn during the standard action charge if the character has the Quick Draw feat. Otherwise, a weapon can be drawn without the feat, but only if the character charges his speed or less.
Charging is a special full-round action that allows you to move up to twice your speed and attack during the action. Charging, however, carries tight restrictions on how you can move.Movement During a Charge: You must move before your attack, not after. You must move at least 10 feet (2 squares) and may move up to double your speed directly toward the designated opponent. If you move a distance equal to your speed or less, you can also draw a weapon during a charge attack if your base attack bonus is at least +1.
Then a few paragraphs later in the description:
If you are able to take only a standard action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed) and you cannot draw a weapon unless you possess the Quick Draw feat. You can't use this option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action or move actionon your turn.
The requirement of the Quick Draw feat is only on charging during a Standard Action.
No one has mentioned the Pathfinder changes to incorperal creatures. No longer, when attacking with magic weapons, is there a 50% miss chance, rather, the incorperal creature takes half damage. Bet most people don't know that.
That's because it has been subsumed under the invisibility entry. Incorporeal creatures are only missed 50% of the time when they are not visible.
Incorporeal creatures are often invisible. Scent, Blind-Fight, and blindsight don't help creatures find or attack invisible, incorporeal creatures.
Edit: Great thread, by the way.
Wait, I think I see what you were saying. You were saying a weapon can be drawn, but only IF the charge is his speed or less. OK, I was reading that as a weapon can be drawn, but charges are only up to your speed or less.
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A spiked gaunlet still counts as an open hand for spell casting and doesnt offer any spell failure. Thus you may use a spiked gauntlet in your main hand and a light crossbow in your off hand and still cast spells , as well as threaten and flank in melee and use a ranged attack ( you have the open hand to load light crossbow as well. )
Taking this concept a little farther , you can also make that gauntlet a +4 defending gauntlet and transfer that +4 into your AC.
Edit - If you get hit with alchemist fire you will keep buring every round until you try to put yourself out.
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Wait, I think I see what you were saying. You were saying a weapon can be drawn, but only IF the charge is his speed or less. OK, I was reading that as a weapon can be drawn, but charges are only up to your speed or less.
Correct. You can draw while charging. Doing so limits your move to a single move distance instead of a double move distance. Variations on this were common house rules in SRD/D&D. If weapon starts off in hand, charge distance is double move. All of this not addressing the charge as a single distance if standard action only stuff. :)
if a creature has immunity to cold/fire it automatically has vulnerability to the opposite. though I think this is going to be errattad apparently its so obscure last time it was brought up two of the developers did not know ot existed.This is not entirely true. I read it in another thread about a week ago, and it was confirmed by one of the developers - if I remember correctly, it was James Jacobs:
Creatures with the fire subtype are immune to fire and vulnerable to cold.
Creatures with the cold subtype are immune to cold and vulnerable to fire.
But an immunity doesn't automatically bring along a vulnerability.
According to the PRD it is entirely true:
Energy Immunity and Vulnerability
A creature with energy immunity never takes damage from that energy type. If a creature has fire immunity, it also has vulnerability to cold. If a creature has cold immunity, it also has vulnerability to fire. Vulnerability means the creature takes half again as much (+50%) damage as normal from that energy type, regardless of whether a saving throw is allowed or if the save is a success or failure.
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Grapplers no longer lose their DEX bonus to AC against other foes, meaning you can't automatically sneak attack someone because they're grappled (although flanking them to sneak is easier). In 3.5 grappling was a good way to grant automatic sneak attacks.
This one is unclear to me. Footnote 1 on Table 8-6, page 195, says they still lose DEX bonus to AC to other foes. A lot of conversations suggest that this is a vestigial rule left over from the editing process, but I haven't seen anything definitive, errata, or FAQ. Anyone have a link to a definitive answer?
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Charisma represents your character force of personality and ability to lead others as well as looks. You can have a charisma of 6 and still have be cleanly shaved , smell good and be beautiful.
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This is not entirely true. I read it in another thread about a week ago, and it was confirmed by one of the developers - if I remember correctly, it was James Jacobs:
Creatures with the fire subtype are immune to fire and vulnerable to cold.
Creatures with the cold subtype are immune to cold and vulnerable to fire.
But an immunity doesn't automatically bring along a vulnerability.
According to the PRD it is entirely true:
Energy Immunity and Vulnerability
A creature with energy immunity never takes damage from that energy type. If a creature has fire immunity, it also has vulnerability to cold. If a creature has cold immunity, it also has vulnerability to fire. Vulnerability means the creature takes half again as much (+50%) damage as normal from that energy type, regardless of whether a saving throw is allowed or if the save is a success or failure.
Good find. It would be nice if that was called out in the Universal monster rules as well.
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A spiked gaunlet still counts as an open hand for spell casting and doesnt offer any spell failure. Thus you may use a spiked gauntlet in your main hand and a light crossbow in your off hand and still cast spells , as well as threaten and flank in melee and use a ranged attack ( you have the open hand to load light crossbow as well. )
Taking this concept a little farther , you can also make that gauntlet a +4 defending gauntlet and transfer that +4 into your AC.
Edit - If you get hit with alchemist fire you will keep buring every round until you try to put yourself out.
...My sorcerer is suddenly very happy. But since attacks with spiked gauntlets are considered armed attacks, would casting a touch attack spell while wearing one count the gauntlet as an item touched, automatically discharging the spell to no effect?
An ironic consequence of the rule about applying the qualifier that overcomes your DR to your attacks occurred to me. By that rule, a Solar's attacks are considered evil, and a Pit Fiend's are considered good.
That's not true actually. The "you can overcome your own DR"-rule only applies to magic and epic DR. A creature with DR/alignment can not overcome the same alignment.
It can be able to overcome DR that requires attacks of its own alignment if it has an alignment-subtype, however.Here's the PRD entry on damage reduction:
A few very powerful monsters are vulnerable only to epic weapons—that is, magic weapons with at least a +6 enhancement bonus. Such creatures' natural weapons are also treated as epic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
Some monsters are vulnerable to good-, evil-, chaotically, or lawfully aligned weapons. When a cleric casts align weapon, affected weapons might gain one or more of these properties, and certain magic weapons have these properties as well. A creature with an alignment subtype (chaotic, evil, good, or lawful) can overcome this type of damage reduction with its natural weapons and weapons it wields as if the weapons or natural weapons had an alignment (or alignments) that matched the subtype(s) of the creature.
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I see people miss this more then they really should.
Auto succeed on a 20 and Auto Fail on a 1 are not a universal rule. It only applies to specific rolls where it is called out.
Examples of Auto/Pass Fail:
Attack Rolls
Savings Throws
Examples of rolls that don't auto pass/fail:
Skill Checks
Caster Level Checks
Concentration Checks
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You can take 10 on any skill check as long as you not in immediate danger or distracted, and the skill doesn't state an exception.
Way to may folks think that take 10 works like take 20, and assume that if there is a negative result for failure you can't take 10. Which is wrong.
...My sorcerer is suddenly very happy. But since attacks with spiked gauntlets are considered armed attacks, would casting a touch attack spell while wearing one count the gauntlet as an item touched, automatically discharging the spell to no effect?A spiked gaunlet still counts as an open hand for spell casting and doesnt offer any spell failure. Thus you may use a spiked gauntlet in your main hand and a light crossbow in your off hand and still cast spells , as well as threaten and flank in melee and use a ranged attack ( you have the open hand to load light crossbow as well. )
Taking this concept a little farther , you can also make that gauntlet a +4 defending gauntlet and transfer that +4 into your AC.
Edit - If you get hit with alchemist fire you will keep buring every round until you try to put yourself out.
hmm....good question. My gut responce would be no because you can wear a travlers outfit that comes with glove and still do touch attacks. Have to look into it more though.
You can do precision damage multiple times a round, as long as the conditions are met.IIRC that was true in 3.5 but not in 3.0 i think.
I don't recall anything in 3.0 that prevented a rogue from getting sneak attack damage on every attack in a full attack as long as the conditions for sneak attack still applied.
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Charisma represents your character force of personality and ability to lead others as well as looks. You can have a charisma of 6 and still have be cleanly shaved , smell good and be beautiful.
This can and has stirred up much debated. Mostly because the word "appearance" is used in the Charisma description. (At least on srd, not next to a CR right now.)
But, I would add that when a character receives stat damage, it only matters in increments of 2. Meaning a stat of 16 getting a penalty of -1 doesn't do anything. Most people think it modifies the stat direct, but in actuality, its just that every 2 damage gives a -1 to all things related to that stat. I see people miss that all the time. Including my group, regularly. The same is true for stat penalties.
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Frequently Unknown Rules (through post 150)
Frequently unknown rules
including summary from:
Change from SRD/D&D to Pathfinder
1. Bardic abilities no longer based on Perform skill other than Countersong and Distraction.
2. Many Shot and Rapid Shot can now be used together.
3. Spiked chain no longer has reach.
4. Anything that improves attack rolls improves CMB, including weapon feats if using weapon for the special attack.
5. Paladin double of smite against some creatures is on first attack only.
6. Sneak attack and critical damage applies to many additional creatures, including undead and constructs.
7. Magic item creation no longer uses XP.
8. Characters can draw a weapon during a charge, but can only charge a single move distance.
9. Magic item creation vastly changed.
10. Dodge applies to all opponents, not just one specified opponent.
11. Improved Trip and Improved Disarm split into a feat tree (Improved and Greater)
12. Grapple works differently. Some highlights: grapplers no longer share space. Ranged attacks into a grapple no longer risk hitting the wrong target. Grappled creatures threaten surrounding squares and can attack into them (at –2 to hit). Arguably, Grappled creatures no longer lose DEX bonus to AC vs foes outside the grapple (see note 1, table 8-6, page 195 for contrary opinion).
13. Weapon enhancement bonus (the plus portion, not the cost equivalent) overcomes various DR at different DR than just magic
14. Elves sleep, but are still immune to magical sleep.
15. Concentration is no longer a skill. New mechanic makes it tougher for multi-classed characters.
16. Many save-or-die and save-or-suck spells have re-saves or more limited effects.
17. Cantrips are at-will.
18. Indentification of magic items changed significantly (see detect magic, identify, and Spellcraft)
19. Power Attack, Cleave, and Greater Cleave all different.
19.a. Combat Expertise different, too.
20. Clerics don’t get heavy armor proficiency, get proficiency with deities favored weapon, and need a feat to turn undead.
21. Fighters can retrain bonus feats.
22. Scrolls take a standard action, but longer if the spell contained has a longer casting time. (This may have been added in D&D add-on material as well, such as Rules Compendium).
23. Feats at every odd level instead of 1, 3, 6, 9, etc.
24. Track is no longer a feat
25. Stabilization and death changed.
26. Mithral armor now requires proficiency in original type of armor, not just resulting armor.
27. Monk flurry of blows different.
28. Poison rules incorporated into affliction and changed significatly; poison tougher all around.
29. Stealth/Perception changed in multiple ways from multiple skill set in SRD.
30. Barbarians rage x rounds/day instead of x times/day
31. Gate spell changed from 2x level to 1x CL in terms of HD called/controlled.
32. Natural attacks changed. Creature can have multiple primary attacks.
33. Bardic Knowledge is changed. Bards get bonus to knowledge checks and can use untrained.
34. Regeneration is simpler. See universal monster rule for regeneration.
35. Alchemical items no longer require CL1 for some items.
36. Class HD changes in many areas.
37. Templates changed in many ways.
38. Far Shot halves range penalty instead of increasing range.
39. Mounted Combat now uses immediate action rather than 1/round language.
40. Blind creatures use acrobatics check to move faster than half speed else prone. Cannot run or charge.
41. Incorporeal creatures take 50% of damage of effective attacks instead of only being affected for the full amount 50% of the time.
42. Uncanny Dodge changed: character with uncanny dodge is not flat-footed.
Always like this, but frequently misplayed or not known previously
1. Inspire courage is free action to continue once having started.
2. Animal companions can be dismissed at will and replaced with 24 hours; note that new companion requires training other than bonus feats.
3. Ranged attacks suffer from cover from objects, enemies, or allies. Allies often overlooked. Applies to reach weapons as well.
4. Weapons and armor must have +1 enhancement prior to gaining additional enchantments.
5. Readying an action is a standard action. One can move first, and then ready. The readied action itself can be a standard, move, free, or swift action. (Note: could not explicitly be swift in SRD 3.5; swift was not in the SRD.) Can include 5’ step as part of the readied action if no other movement in either the readied action or prior to the readied action during regular turn.
6. Lesser Restoration is a three round casting time. Usually, this means it isn’t used during combat. Potion of lesser restoration is good for in combat, tho.
7. Immunity to cold/fire gives vulnerability to opposite.
8. Elementals are immune to flanking and critical hits.
9. Enlarge person has a 1 round casting time.
10. Sneak attack and other precision damage applies to every attack in a round, not just once per round.
11. Characters who use the run action lose Dex bonus to AC, and thus are subject to sneak attack.
12. Dimensional anchor has no saving throw, just spell resistance.
13. Spells can crit if they have an attack roll.
14. Creatures can often overcome the DR that is needed to hit them (magic, epic, etc.)
15. Characters and creatures can charge a single move distance as a standard action if limited to a single action, such as during a surprise round. This doesn’t mean you can opt to only charge as a standard action if you have a full round of actions available.
16. Coup de grace can be performed against a creature with total concealment, such as invisibility, by using two full round actions.
17. Ride-by Attack is still a mess.
18. Empower spell only applies to the rolled portion of the effect.
19. Harm….does what?
20. Rules for tying up a character are in Grapple section.
21. Summon spells have 1 round casting times, even from wands.
22. Grease can be used to disarm.
23. Fear effects stack or escalate; characters can become more fearful.
24. Withdraw action can be double move. AoO only prevented from first square left.
25. Auto-success on a 20 and Auto Fail on a 1 are not universal to all rolls. They apply only when called out. Typical examples are attack rolls and saving throws. The following are not subject to auto-success/failure: Skill checks, caster level checks, concentration checks.
26. Take 10 on skill check can be used when not in immediate danger or distracted. Do not confuse with Take 20’s restriction from use if there is a negative consequence.
27. Take 20 cannot be used if there is a negative result for failure. Do not over-generalize to apply this to Take 10.