[ I would love to see this if its true, not sure how it would effect reaper's sales on the metal figures though.
I doubt it would. As a hobbyist, I am interested in customizing and painting metal. I am not very interested in pre-painted plastic, though I used to buy quite a bit for my son.
Most people who buy the plastic do not care to paint (I won't go into how rude some of them tend to be toward people who do - go figure out when putting effort into something became something to ridicule).
Though there is crossover here and there, one hardly affects the other. The bigger question would be whether one company or another would end up trying to claim some kind of exclusive rights, or whether Paizo wants to license to more than one at a time.
I love to paint but no longer have the time nor inclination!
I still have blister packs of metal minis un opened waiting from 10 years past, I traded some Judge Dredd citadel miniatures unopened over 2 years ago.
My Dark Sun people of the land box set has remained un painted since it was released, and it will stay that way next to the set of DS books and rules.
Pre-Painted stuff is a happy compromise, IMO. Heck 30 years ago I'd have loved to have readily available fully painted minis for play, in the quantities that I see my son have now.
As for metal v plastic. Weight issues aside I'd prefer metal and plastic iconics with the option to paint or not ditto for Unique critters!
However in terms of ruggedness and immediate playability plastic moulded is best, less chance to damage the paintwork.
There's also the option to overpaint the pre painted mini anyway if you desire!
i liked the idea of dnd mini but like all things wizards screwed it up with greed. Now i agree that to make the most money is to randomize but that only works to a point. the people who will mainly buy are collectors and adicts, not much difference but slightly. What would have been the smart approach would be be randomized, not completely random.
Imagine this.
Standard race booster box- random figures of humans,elves,dwarves, half-elves, gnomes, halflings, and half orcs. The highest demand is for PC figures and if you dont get ones that players want to use at least you get to use them often as NPC's. At least there the right race instead of using a goblin, skeleton, vegepygmi for a shopkeeper.
Monster CR-X booster- Ok there's lots of monsters and being random your hardy ever going to get the ones you may ever actually use. SO break down to randomized within a Challenge rating! At least you would get monsters of the appropriate CR you need at the moment. one thing i never liked was getting random monster X and it's a CR 10 monster and my players are 2-3 level, ok im going to get to use that figure in a couple years!
Have the boxes random but have one figure shown, i think wizards might have went this route if i remember right.
DO NOT make them COLLECTORS! yeah im going to pay 35 bucks for a fire Giant!-DIIIIIR OK. If rarity must be used to drive profit at least have a common version of a rare! just make the RARE version a RARE color paint scheme. then at least you can get some of the cooler monsters without having to pay 5x the prices as a metal figure! you want to have collectors fine, you can have my rare version FireGiant and trade me 4 common ones for it!
Are they here yet?
Oh, and +1 for both the idea of partially-randomized themed collections (warband, townsfolk, PCs) and ESPECIALLY AP-themed sets.
Definitely don't make them collectable. Some of the best collectables were mass produced items. Original Star Wars merchandise for example not the remade later stuff.
The Market itself drives what's collectable anyway.
How many of us as kids played with toys that are highly prized today which we no longer have?
@ RunbladeX WotC did go with 1 visible mini and the rest random boxes but I can look through the box of Dnd minis in my sons room and identify 4 ochre jellies, 3 Dire badgers and numerous Ogres with spiked clubs! Money well spent. /Sarcasm.
I would never buy unpainted minis, but will certainly buy painted ones.
Great news!
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Need a group of pallbearers and coffin for the first encounter? It's in the box!
Well, there's this...
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I actually did not mind the Random D&D mini boxes, it allowed for making of unusual Minis that I always found a use for that would not normally have been sold because of the likelihood they would not have sold well.
Also, at least at first the model was able to keep the price down.
I am worried that the pricing of these by WK will be an issue; too many people have issues if a mini is over $1 each. I am willing to pay for them no matter the price, but I have the disposable income.
I would not be surprised if these are somewhere in the price range of $10-$20 depending on how many there are.
Like Dragonmoon, I also do not mind randomized packages. Also having more of a disposable income, I like to collect as well. To give an idea, with the plastic pre-painted sets Wizards put out, I would be buying a case of them when a new set was released. :)
Now, that is something I would not be doing again, that was a bit much and wish now I had not done so. However, I do not mind buying the 8-10 randomized miniatures every now and then.
But, as the only plastic minis that have been confirmed is the set associated with the Beginner Box, I am not going to get too excited yet.
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The highest demand is for PC figures and if you dont get ones that players want to use at least you get to use them often as NPC's.
I disagree - all PCS in my games are metal, hand-painted. and as long as I have 4 humans that works for 90% of NPCs... I have sold 90% of the human figures for all the WotC sets after the first two, I only bought them for the monsters.
Have the boxes random but have one figure shown, i think wizards might have went this route if i remember right.
Yup, and it led to decreased sales. People would avoid the 'unwanted' visible figure to the point of preferring to not buy any over buying one they didn't like. This is actually cited in some circles as one of the leading reasons the minis line died.
DO NOT make them COLLECTORS! yeah im going to pay 35 bucks for a fire Giant!-DIIIIIR OK. If rarity must be used to drive profit at least have a common version of a rare! just make the RARE version a RARE color paint scheme. then at least you can get some of the cooler monsters without having to pay 5x the prices as a metal figure! you want to have collectors fine, you can have my rare version FireGiant and trade me 4 common ones for it!
I think two rarities instead of the 3 (or 4 in the last set) that wizards did would be best, unfortunatly I can't see a way to do it without randomness, but if it's 5 figures a $10 booster (similar to heroclix when i played when topps owned them), and it had 3 common and 2 rare... the rare isn't so extravagantly more rare than a common to boost up the value on the secondary market.
Note: even the rares on the wizards were only 2-3 on ebay a few months after release, it was cheaper to buy singles than hope for a rare you didn't have, as most rares were 1/8-1/2 the price of a pack, and after 5 packs, you had all of the commons and uncommons. It was only the dragons or one or 2 'chase' rares that cost more than a pack
Most people who buy the plastic do not care to paint (I won't go into how rude some of them tend to be toward people who do - go figure out when putting effort into something became something to ridicule).
I'd like to hear the stories of your experiences with regards to platic mini users ridiculing painted metal mini users. Our home table has customized (weapon/arm/head swaps, etc) painted metal minis for the PCs, and since I'm running an AP, as many NPCs as possible are the exact painted metal miniatures as well, with DDM plastics and Paper minis (again, representing exact NPCs) to round it out. I play Pathfinder Society and paint my own metal minis to exactly match my characters (including a metal mini "Spiritual Weapon" for my cleric), and I've gotten nothing but praise for my metal minis. While not having at least a near approximation (i.e. a hill giant standing in for a frost giant, not a grey render, or heaven forbid, a d4!) for a monster at a table is a huge pet peave of mine, I understand why it is necessary in many organized play situations, despite the lack of visual appeal.
I just can't imagine the mindset of someone who would look down upon someone who put the effort in to have the perfect visual representation of his character. ???
CEO
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Though there is crossover here and there, one hardly affects the other. The bigger question would be whether one company or another would end up trying to claim some kind of exclusive rights, or whether Paizo wants to license to more than one at a time.
No need to worry. IF we decide to do more prepainted plastics, it would have NO effect on our relationship with Reaper. We love what they are doing and want them to keep doing it! As you say in your post, the audiences for the two products are pretty different, so the overlap is small IMHO.
-Lisa
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I just can't imagine the mindset of someone who would look down upon someone who put the effort in to have the perfect visual representation of his character. ???
I suppose the only objection I could see, would be if they were being so anal about it, that they were holding up the game.
Stopping the game, to look for a specific figure, when there are plenty of perfectly good proxies, especially when it's not forced to be a combat encounter, or it's likely to die quickly.Calling off the session, because you haven't put the third glaze on the pommelstone of the BBEG, would get old after a while.
I just can't imagine the mindset of someone who would look down upon someone who put the effort in to have the perfect visual representation of his character. ???
I am one who doesn't do my own painting with metal miniatures. That being said, a couple of my friends do so and are actually really good at it. One of my friends actually is very good at 'making' his own miniatures. And I mean by that is cutting off body parts (usually arms or heads) and replacing them with something more appropriate for his character, or reshaping weapons to what he needs. I can only envy him.
With myself, I don't have the patience, and especially the talent, to paint my own. But I do appreciate those who do.
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Though there is crossover here and there, one hardly affects the other. The bigger question would be whether one company or another would end up trying to claim some kind of exclusive rights, or whether Paizo wants to license to more than one at a time.No need to worry. IF we decide to do more prepainted plastics, it would have NO effect on our relationship with Reaper. We love what they are doing and want them to keep doing it! As you say in your post, the audiences for the two products are pretty different, so the overlap is small IMHO.
-Lisa
I tend to agree. In my case, I have pretty much zero interest in metal minis because I'm not into painting them. Don't get me wrong - I USED to paint them when I was younger (as in, back when we played 1st edition AD&D) but now I really just have no time or interest in painting minis.
Pre painted plastic on the other hand I like a lot! I'm thrilled at this announcement and hope it leads to a great new, on-going product line! :)
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I dislike random. I wish to purchase items I want, and in the quantity I want. Please consider that random smells of wotci greed mechanism.
Give me the Chupacabra.
Give me the Slurk.
Help GMs purchase with quantity options for best savings for them, and more sales for PAIZO.
If I bought a Slurk, I might buy six or seven if my game needs a bunch.
If I buy a Chupacabra, I might opt to buy a pack of them or maybe I just need a singular feared creature for my low level game.
As a gamemaster, I've collected minis having sets of 2,4,6,8 of each kind... but having 10, 12, 14 just because the marketing department of a greedy company makes me keep buying just to get the one i need for the game, frankly sucks.
Again, assuming SUCCESS with this endeavor - please begin now planning on how I can be selective in my purchasing with these. Consider the appeal selectivity would have to those with big collections as well as small ones.
Thanks for being awesome!!!!
-Pax
I dislike random. I wish to purchase items I want, and in the quantity I want. Please consider that random smells of wotci greed mechanism.
Give me the Chupacabra.
Give me the Slurk.
Help GMs purchase with quantity options for best savings for them, and more sales for PAIZO.
If I bought a Slurk, I might buy six or seven if my game needs a bunch.
If I buy a Chupacabra, I might opt to buy a pack of them or maybe I just need a singular feared creature for my low level game.
As a gamemaster, I've collected minis having sets of 2,4,6,8 of each kind... but having 10, 12, 14 just because the marketing department of a greedy company makes me keep buying just to get the one i need for the game, frankly sucks.
Again, assuming SUCCESS with this endeavor - please begin now planning on how I can be selective in my purchasing with these. Consider the appeal selectivity would have to those with big collections as well as small ones.
Thanks for being awesome!!!!
-Pax
So here is the question would you prefer more options for miniatures, or non random packaging? The advantage for random packaging is that you can do a set of 60 minis every few months (although let's shoot for a better selection of minis then WotC had), or you have a release rate similar to what Reaper is doing now except in plastic (probably at similar price point).
They are handy, however it's very frustrating when you need 5 fire giants and only have 2 so the green slaad, blue dragon and djinni mini make an appearance just to fill in until the next mini box yields another fire giant model! :(
Of course, maybe you use all of those 5 fire giants at the same time once in a 3 year period, but now you don't have the slaad, blue dragon, or djinni to work in that period as well.
EXCELLENT!
Please, PLEASE tell me that these are "standard" sized bases, comparable to the WotC DDM sizing!
EXCELLENT!
Please, PLEASE tell me that these are "standard" sized bases, comparable to the WotC DDM sizing!
I am sure the medium sized creatures will be standard for 1" squares, like the WotC minis were.
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Chief Technical Officer
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We are in the process of appending the following to the press release:
Frequently Asked Questions:
Q: Are these prepainted plastic miniatures included in the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Beginner Box?
A: The Beginner Box includes more than 80 full-color pawns, but it does not include any prepainted plastic miniatures. This set is a separate product designed to complement the Beginner Box or stand on its own.
Q: Are the miniatures in this set randomized?
A: It's a fixed set of miniatures. The exact list of minis will be announced soon.
Q: How much will this set cost?
A: The exact price will be announced soon. Expect the price to be comparable to similar WizKids miniatures boxed sets.
Q: Will this set be part of Paizo's Pathfinder Roleplaying Game subscription?
A: This set is produced by WizKids under license from Paizo, and is not part of any Paizo subscription.
Q: How does this affect the Pathfinder Miniatures line from Reaper Miniatures?
A: Reaper Miniatures has been producing unpainted metal Pathfinder Miniatures since Fall 2009, and they will continue to do so.
Q: Do these miniatures use Reaper's sculpts?
A: These miniatures use all-new sculpts by WizKids.
We've added an FAQ to our press release.
They are handy, however it's very frustrating when you need 5 fire giants and only have 2 so the green slaad, blue dragon and djinni mini make an appearance just to fill in until the next mini box yields another fire giant model! :(Of course, maybe you use all of those 5 fire giants at the same time once in a 3 year period, but now you don't have the slaad, blue dragon, or djinni to work in that period as well.
Nope running Age of Worms - Kings of the Rift ATM. Players about to enter The Citadel of Weeping Dragons, a Fire Giant Stronghold, I'll need quite a few fire giants on the map at once over the coming weeks!
Also 3 Blue Dragons, 2 large 1 huge, 1 gargantuan Fang dragon I haven't seen any of those in a WotC mini box, Gargantuan or Fang!
And I don't care about the labour laws, get back to work Djinni, Slaad and Blue Dragon, mush! ;)
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Q: How much will this set cost?
A: The exact price will be announced soon. Expect the price to be comparable to similar WizKids miniatures boxed sets.
Which means around $15-20 for a 6 piece set (using the last two non-random heroclix sets as references) the number of sculpts might adjust the price one way or the other...
Also 3 Blue Dragons, 2 large 1 huge,Stormrage Blue Dragon (also large)
1 gargantuan Fang dragon I haven't seen any of those in a WotC mini box, Gargantuan or Fang!
Large Fang Dragon (not huge or gargantuan, but they made a Fang)
Still wish we could have gotten a Gargantuan Green. :(
Q: How much will this set cost?
A: The exact price will be announced soon. Expect the price to be comparable to similar WizKids miniatures boxed sets.
Which means around $15-20 for a 6 piece set (using the last two non-random heroclix sets as references) the number of sculpts might adjust the price one way or the other...
Ouch, that would be pretty high if this is the case, especially if it was $20 for 6 minis.
Hopefully 'comparable' means 'within' several dollars of a WizKids miniature set. Also, maybe it will be cheaper as PF minis won't need the movable base like the heroclix uses.
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Want them all.
Will buy them all.
If you make all the Iconics, that means my "Evil" hand-painted metal versions will get to remain awesome NPCs and the "Good" pre-painted plastic versions get used as PCs.
Or, vice-versa.
Kudos to Paizo & WizKids, and I can't wait until 4Q 2011!!!!
(also: want subscription. I know its unlikely, but I still want it!)
(also: want subscription. I know its unlikely, but I still want it!)
So far this has only been confirmed as a one-shot deal, so wouldn't make much sense as a subscription.
But yes, if they do continue with these kind of minis, I would love to see a subscription line. Would be getting it myself.
GREAT NEWS!! TOTALLY AWESOME!!! YES, this is why I LOVE Paizo they listen to their customers!(: I for one will keep getting Reapers line of Pathfinder minis, along with the new plastic ones. Paizo, KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK! YOU GUYS ARE AWESOME!(:
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Ouch, that would be pretty high if this is the case, especially if it was $20 for 6 minis.Hopefully 'comparable' means 'within' several dollars of a WizKids miniature set. Also, maybe it will be cheaper as PF minis won't need the movable base like the heroclix uses.
Actually, your right, the PF ones wouldn't need movable bases, and the recent non-random heroclix also include maps and rulebooks, which woudn;t be the case here, so that would bring the cost down a bit too, I'd wager.
(note even in the case of heroclix 6 minis+a map = 24.99 MSRP non-random, 5 minis random = $11.95 MSRP, so unless the map costs more than the minis, thats how much randomization effects prices)
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It's been said in other threads that there will not be a subscription. These are being done by WizKids, not Paizo. WizKids is licensing from Paizo.
I agree that the higher $20 cost almost has to be because the HeroClix figures have the rotating bases etc. A static mini on a standard round base should certainly cost less.
I would hope that a box of 6, as was mentioned earlier, would cost more in the $10 - $12 range.
Speaking of that, at this point we don't know how many different minis are being made total, how many will be per set or any of that do we?
I'm hoping there will be more details at PaizoCon ...
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Speaking of that, at this point we don't know how many different minis are being made total, how many will be per set or any of that do we?I'm hoping there will be more details at PaizoCon ...
We know that right now this is a one time deal for minis that go with the beginner box, that it isn't randomized, and depending on how they sell will tell if they make more.
i liked the idea of dnd mini but like all things wizards screwed it up with greed.
The first sets were okay. Then came great sets. The pinnacle was the Underdark Set. After that, quality plummeted while prices sky-rocketed. Well, maybe that's a bit of an overstatement, but it did go downhill after Underdark and never really recovered.
just make the RARE version a RARE color paint scheme. then at least you can get some of the cooler monsters without having to pay 5x the prices as a metal figure! you want to have collectors fine, you can have my rare version FireGiant and trade me 4 common ones for it!
I think the whole point of rarity schemes in the collective model is that the rares are chase figures. Stuff you will really want.
It also means you can have relatively simple common figures (a simple robed cultist isn't very complex and will be easy to produce) to balance out more complex pieces and still sell the whole shebang for a decent price.
That's what wotc did at first. Of course, at the height of the line, even the commons looked quite nice (there were commons in Underdark that looked better than some of the rares in the first few sets). Too bad that some of the later rares looked almost worse than the commons from the first sets.
I'm stoked about this and the possibilities it presents, especially since my painting days seem to be over (damn psyche).
But painting can sooth and calm you. It's basically art therapy! ;-P
I'm just worried about having to import these to Europe. I fear they'll get too expensive with all the VAT and similar extra costs.
Unless they'll be sold by Amazon.co.uk?
I got (almost) all my Legendary Encounter figures from Paizo. If you don't overdo it and have them in an extra shipment (they're not too heavy), you can avoid to pay import VAT or anything like it.
But still, here's hoping that amazon will pick them up!
I certainly hope that the set is a big success and we do more products with WizKids, but for now we are talking about a single set of non-random minis. I have seen the preliminary sculpts and paint guides and I am blown away by the quality.
I've seen the Kyra preview. Wow. Unless they're Wardrumming us here (i.e. have great preview pictures but the actual product looks a lot worse), those look like a keeper.
I'm already afraid I'll have a relapse with my plastic addiction because of you guys :P
I've been a Clix fan for quite some time ... my only hope is that we NEVER see random blind boxes for the minis. I'd like to be able to buy the figures I need rather than get stuck with 87 copies of the same useless mini ...
If this becomes a lasting phenomenon, I imagine they will be a secondary market. Someone making a business out of opening lots and lots of boosters and selling the rares for whatever people will pay. And commons (and uncommons to some extend) might well end up being relatively cheap in such a situation.
We are in the process of appending the following to the press release:
Frequently Asked Questions:
Q: Will this set be part of Paizo's Pathfinder Roleplaying Game subscription?
A: This set is produced by WizKids under license from Paizo, and is not part of any Paizo subscription.
There had better be a pre-order option available through here.
As we've said, this agreement with WizKids is for one product only, and while its success (or lack thereof) may well create implications for the future, for now, that door is still open.
Personally, I'd be shocked if this didn't sell like crazy. I'd suggest selling some bundles of Beginner Boxes attached to the pack of Minis, to give people who want the Beginner Box and the minis to have a better chance...
I wonder if Paizo will bust open some boxes and sell the minis individually on their site. I know they didn't do this with the D&D PHB Heroes sets, since they weren't random.
I'll be buying these for sure, and I hope they do really well so we can get more!
Just one note on that though...I will not buy randomized boosters. I'll gladly pay more for sets with specific figures in them, but I wont do randomized. No way, no how.
I'll be buying these for sure, and I hope they do really well so we can get more!
Just one note on that though...I will not buy randomized boosters. I'll gladly pay more for sets with specific figures in them, but I wont do randomized. No way, no how.
How would you package them and how much are you willing to pay?
I'm willing to buy randomized boosters, since that's the only way any significant quantity of minis is going to sell (with the exception of something like this particular set).
Bring 'em on!
I'm willing to buy randomized boosters, since that's the only way any significant quantity of minis is going to sell (with the exception of something like this particular set).
Bring 'em on!
In the news today, screaming legume demands randomized minis!
In the news today, screaming legume demands randomized minis!I'm willing to buy randomized boosters, since that's the only way any significant quantity of minis is going to sell (with the exception of something like this particular set).
Bring 'em on!
Unless it's a fruit.
Please, please, please let these be the same scale as the D&D miniatures line. Mageknight, heroclix, and WoW minis are just too darn big!
I'm going to throw my voice in for different ones before the initial set is even released. Specifically, I'd love small boxes of "opponents that tend to be encountered in large groups." Boxes of goblins, orcs, kobolds, bandits, gnolls, etc. would be great to have, especially if there were half-a-dozen different sculpts of the same creature type in each box.
Especially if there were preformulated sets for each AP. *cough*Lilith*cough*
Especially if there were preformulated sets for each AP. *cough*Lilith*cough*
I'm workin' on it! :P
I AM interested, though I will always prefer Reaper minis, and if I ever have to choose, I will stand by Reaper.
I'm kinda like you. Plastic is nice for filler and large battles, but I like custom-painted metal for PCs and important NPCs.
I'm not a good painter, but my group's characters are a little cooler when they look just as imagined. We have a great time with it.
DO NOT make them COLLECTORS! yeah im going to pay 35 bucks for a fire Giant!-DIIIIIR OK. If rarity must be used to drive profit at least have a common version of a rare! just make the RARE version a RARE color paint scheme. then at least you can get some of the cooler monsters without having to pay 5x the prices as a metal figure! you want to have collectors fine, you can have my rare version FireGiant and trade me 4 common ones for it!
As for WotC's old line, including more "rare's" would have driven the price up of the product in general. They typically had more detail in their sculpt and more colors and detail in their paint as well. Excluding the Wardrums set (cause the manufacturer screwed up the paint) if you go back and look at the commons and rares, you will notice a quality difference. The rares are nicer and more interesting figures.
With a limited number of figs, they aren't going to be able to make everyone happy. Everyone is going to want something different. If the set is non-randomized and divided into smaller packs, you're going to notice that certain packs are more popular and sell out faster. If that's the one you need 5 of for your game, you're still going to be out of luck trying to get a "complete" set for your game.
Having a secondary market for collectors actually helps boost the primary market. The stronger the secondary market, the more speculation (pre-orders) there are for the primary. This can help a product line stay profitable and make more products.
I think WotC ran into other problems, changing editions, that might have killed their miniatures line. The warband tournaments were a small but significant section of their sales. A friend and I were very competitive players (I was ranked fairly high for a while) and we each spent over $1000 a year on the primary market. When they changed rule sets, I got frustrated that all my old purchases were voided and quit.
Pre-painted plastic mini's are not a hot market. When a company changes hands as often as Wizkids does, that tells me it runs into financial problems. I'm excited to see Paizo get into the market, but I'm very interested to see how they make this a viable business model. It's not impossible, but it's definitely an uphill battle.