Hey folks, looking at Synthesist (which rocks) and I have a few questions;
1. Do the saves from the Eidolon stack with the Summoners saves?
2. If the Summoner wears armor does the armor bonus stack with the Eidolon?
3. The Summoner gains the Eidolon's physical stats - does he gain additional hp from the increased CON, or just stack the whole Eidolon hp total on top of what he already has?
Thank you to anyone who responds!
Anyone?
Anyone?
I doubt there are a ton of people who have a copy yet. I don't, and I won't til the 18th. People that have it are gonna be trying to process all kinds of different things, too, so it'll be a while.
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I am patiently waiting for 5/18 as well. Alas...
Don't mean to thread jack, but will bits and pieces of Ultimate Magic eventually make it onto srd? I noticed some mechanics from the Inner Sea book started to appear, but don't know if Ultimate Magic or Combat will be included.
Even if it does, I imagine it will won't be for a LONG time.
GIMMIE THE PDF! *foams*
I want the Magus!
Waiting for the 18th......
Hey folks, looking at Synthesist (which rocks) and I have a few questions;
1. Do the saves from the Eidolon stack with the Summoners saves?
2. If the Summoner wears armor does the armor bonus stack with the Eidolon?
3. The Summoner gains the Eidolon's physical stats - does he gain additional hp from the increased CON, or just stack the whole Eidolon hp total on top of what he already has?
Thank you to anyone who responds!
I don't have the book yet, but going off the rules...
1) No clue. Probably not, since then you'd get +40 to some save at level 20.
2) Armor bonus is whichever is higher.
3) Most likely the increased HP from the increased CON. Stacking the whole Eidolon's HP is just craziness.
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Hey folks, looking at Synthesist (which rocks) and I have a few questions;
1. Do the saves from the Eidolon stack with the Summoners saves?
2. If the Summoner wears armor does the armor bonus stack with the Eidolon?
3. The Summoner gains the Eidolon's physical stats - does he gain additional hp from the increased CON, or just stack the whole Eidolon hp total on top of what he already has?
Thank you to anyone who responds!
I don't have the book yet, but going off the rules...
1) No clue. Probably not, since then you'd get +40 to some save at level 20.
2) Armor bonus is whichever is higher.
3) Most likely the increased HP from the increased CON. Stacking the whole Eidolon's HP is just craziness.
I do have the PDF, and I completely agree with Cheapy's assessment. The rules say nothing about the PC getting a save bonus, so he doesn't. Armor bonuses are always incompatible with one another unless the rules specifically say otherwise, and they don't. And similarly, the summoner just gets whatever hp he would normally have for the Con score the eidolon gives him.
I do have the PDF, and I completely agree with Cheapy's assessment. The rules say nothing about the PC getting a save bonus, so he doesn't. Armor bonuses are always incompatible with one another unless the rules specifically say otherwise, and they don't. And similarly, the summoner just gets whatever hp he would normally have for the Con score the eidolon gives him.Hey folks, looking at Synthesist (which rocks) and I have a few questions;
1. Do the saves from the Eidolon stack with the Summoners saves?
2. If the Summoner wears armor does the armor bonus stack with the Eidolon?
3. The Summoner gains the Eidolon's physical stats - does he gain additional hp from the increased CON, or just stack the whole Eidolon hp total on top of what he already has?
Thank you to anyone who responds!
I don't have the book yet, but going off the rules...
1) No clue. Probably not, since then you'd get +40 to some save at level 20.
2) Armor bonus is whichever is higher.
3) Most likely the increased HP from the increased CON. Stacking the whole Eidolon's HP is just craziness.
You're probably right about the saves, but it states that you get the eidolons HP as temp HP, I was just wondering if you only got one set of con increases.
Can you choose for the Armor Bonus the Eidolon gets to be a Natural Armor Bonus? It sounds like a second skin so far.
If it doesn't say that it's a natural armor bonus, then no.
In all the text that lists what the synthesist gets from the eidolon, does it mention that he uses the eidolon's saves, or adds the eidolon's saves to his own?
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For 3) it says "gains the eidolon's hit points as temporary hit points." I think it means all of them. The idea being that before, you got all of them anyway, but on a different creature. Now, you have way more HP, but less actions.
Nowhere does it say the summoner gains the eidolon's saves, so I'm guessing he retains his own, but his Fort and Ref will be modified by the Con and Dex of the Eidolon while it's up.
And it says you gain the Armor Bonus and Natural Armor Bonus of your eidolon, which would override (not stack) with your own. However, you control at each level how much of the AB is Natural and how much is an "Armor" bonus, so it makes sense to adjust that based on how much Natural Armor/Armor you have on yourself.
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I guess here is the question I have.
If Dunno Dumpings, my gnome summoner with a 5 strength takes 5 points of ability drain while in synthesis do those points go against the eidolon enhanced strength? Do they affect him at all when he dismisses his eidolon?
My assumption is they go against the total and when the eidolon goes away Dunno has zero strength and dies...
I guess here is the question I have.
If Dunno Dumpings, my gnome summoner with a 5 strength takes 5 points of ability drain while in synthesis do those points go against the eidolon enhanced strength? Do they affect him at all when he dismisses his eidolon?
My assumption is they go against the total and when the eidolon goes away Dunno has zero strength and dies...
Good question, but minor side-point--the touch of the Shadow is an exception, but normally you don't die from Strength drain, only from Con drain. So he would be knocked unconscious if your (and my) assumption turns out to be true.
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Good question, but minor side-point--the touch of the Shadow is an exception, but normally you don't die from Strength drain, only from Con drain. So he would be knocked unconscious if your (and my) assumption turns out to be true.I guess here is the question I have.
If Dunno Dumpings, my gnome summoner with a 5 strength takes 5 points of ability drain while in synthesis do those points go against the eidolon enhanced strength? Do they affect him at all when he dismisses his eidolon?
My assumption is they go against the total and when the eidolon goes away Dunno has zero strength and dies...
Shadow touch is the exception but in my experience also the most common source of STR drain ;)
Shadow touch is the exception but in my experience also the most common source of STR drain ;)Good question, but minor side-point--the touch of the Shadow is an exception, but normally you don't die from Strength drain, only from Con drain. So he would be knocked unconscious if your (and my) assumption turns out to be true.I guess here is the question I have.
If Dunno Dumpings, my gnome summoner with a 5 strength takes 5 points of ability drain while in synthesis do those points go against the eidolon enhanced strength? Do they affect him at all when he dismisses his eidolon?
My assumption is they go against the total and when the eidolon goes away Dunno has zero strength and dies...
Verily, shadows are the number one source of strength damage, but I believe that you technically have to go below 0 from the shadow's attack itself in order to suffer from the death clause, since it's part of the supernatural ability--for instance, I think if you lose strength from a shadow while under Bull's Strength, leaving you at 4 or lower, you will technically be alive at the end of the spell.
In all the text that lists what the synthesist gets from the eidolon, does it mention that he uses the eidolon's saves, or adds the eidolon's saves to his own?
No it doesn't, but it was a little vague and I wanted to double check. Theme wise it would have made sense, but I didn't think you would... just wanted to verify. Sorry?
In all the text that lists what the synthesist gets from the eidolon, does it mention that he uses the eidolon's saves, or adds the eidolon's saves to his own?No it doesn't, but it was a little vague and I wanted to double check. Theme wise it would have made sense, but I didn't think you would... just wanted to verify. Sorry?
No need to apologize! It's just that when a rulebook tells you "you get X, Y, and Z," and specifically doesn't mention W as one of the things you get, W isn't one of the things you get. :)
Hey folks, looking at Synthesist (which rocks) and I have a few questions;
1. Do the saves from the Eidolon stack with the Summoners saves?
2. If the Summoner wears armor does the armor bonus stack with the Eidolon?
3. The Summoner gains the Eidolon's physical stats - does he gain additional hp from the increased CON, or just stack the whole Eidolon hp total on top of what he already has?
Thank you to anyone who responds!
1. The way the ability is written, it's clear that if it doesn't talk about it adding its own saves to yours that it doesn't. That said, the text should have at least mentioned saves, as it specifically went out of its way to note that the Eidolon did not get skills or feats. From my reading, it seems like you use the Summoner's base saves.
2. I don't think the Summoner can wear armor. The normal Eidolon ability text says that the Eidolon cannot wear armor, as it interferes with the Eidolon's link to the Summoner. Since the Eidolon and the summoner are "now one creature," the Summoner cannot wear armor without violating the rule that Eidolons can't wear armor.
3. Both the summoner's HD and the eidolon's extra HD as temporary HP gain a bonus based on the Eidolon's CON score while it is summoned, as its CON score counts as your own.
Think about this before deciding to dump your own CON to 7: if you're forced to unsummon the Eidolon, you'll lose a significant amount of health. For instance, while you might have 93+76temp HP at lvl 10 (Eidolon's CON @18), you'll find yourself with a maximum HP of 33 should the Eidolon get banished or otherwise need to be unsummoned.
1. It does say that neither the eidolon nor the synthesist can be targeted separately. It also says that the eidolon loses skills and feats. It does not say it loses saves. I do not think they stack, but I'm not so sure you wouldn't use the better of the two bonuses.
2. Except that it specifically says that the synthesist can use all of his gear when fused with the eidolon. What trumps what?
I'm on the fence on both.
I am patiently waiting for 5/18 as well. Alas...
Don't mean to thread jack, but will bits and pieces of Ultimate Magic eventually make it onto srd? I noticed some mechanics from the Inner Sea book started to appear, but don't know if Ultimate Magic or Combat will be included.
Even if it does, I imagine it will won't be for a LONG time.
Apparently this will change with the processing of new information.
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I am patiently waiting for 5/18 as well. Alas...
Don't mean to thread jack, but will bits and pieces of Ultimate Magic eventually make it onto srd? I noticed some mechanics from the Inner Sea book started to appear, but don't know if Ultimate Magic or Combat will be included.
Even if it does, I imagine it will won't be for a LONG time.
Apparently this will change with the processing of new information.
Appreciated!
Casting Spells while in Eilodon form as Synthesist. If a spell has a somantic compent, and the Eilodon form that you are merged with does not have have limbs evolution can you still cast?
I am guessing no?
How about a spell that has a long duration that is currently cast upon the summoner that summons his eilodon, such as bulls strength? Will that strength bonus carry over to the Eilodon or will you have to re cast or have it re cast upon you?
If you do not have the limbs to cast a spell or the ability to speak then you cannot cast spells that require those components, the natural spell feat would probably be needed to do this.
From page 212 of the core rulebook:
When you cast a polymorph spell that changes you into a creature of the animal, dragon, elemental, magical beast, plant, or vermin type, all of your gear melds into your body. Items that provide constant bonuses and do not need to be activated continue to function while melded in this way (with the exception of armor bonuses, which cease
to function). Items that require activation cannot be used while you maintain that form. While in such a form, you cannot cast any spells that require material components (unless you have the Eschew Materials or Natural Spell feat), and can only cast spells with somatic or verbal components if the form you choose has the capability to make such movements or speak, such as a dragon. Other polymorph spells might be subject to this restriction as well, if they change you into a form that is unlike your original form (subject to GM discretion). If your new form does not cause your equipment to meld into your form, the equipment resizes to match your new size.
I would say that this applies here as well... except for this line:
While fused with his eidolon, the synthesist can
use all of his own abilities and gear.
Spell casting is an ability so it looks like you can still cast spells even if you do not have the ability to speak or make somatic gestures (seems a little off to me).
As for the bulls strength, if you had a belt that increased strength on you it still effects you (since you keep our gear) so I would say that bulls strength would stick around.
Isn't this a case of the Specific trumping the general? I would argue that a Synthesist can wear armor, can cast spells, and since the Eidolon and the Summoner are one creature, any effects on the Summoner would continue to be in effect after the Eidolon was summoned - so that Bulls Strength and Barkskin that you had cast before you summoned the Eidolon-suit would still be in effect with the Eidolon's higher stats as the base, because the BECOME yours.
Hey folks, looking at Synthesist (which rocks) and I have a few questions;
1. Do the saves from the Eidolon stack with the Summoners saves?
2. If the Summoner wears armor does the armor bonus stack with the Eidolon?
3. The Summoner gains the Eidolon's physical stats - does he gain additional hp from the increased CON, or just stack the whole Eidolon hp total on top of what he already has?
1. No.
2. Armor bonuses never stack. But as per base eidolon rules you can choose the split of armor bonus and natural armor bonus of your eidolon. So converting all to natural armor seems like a way. But eidolons cannot wear armor. I would rule summoners armor does not in anyway effect the merged forms armor mainly because it really isn't necessary. Unfortunately it really isn't clear. Really.
3. Does the fused form gain 1)Additional hp from Con? Yes. (it may also decrease if your summoners Con is higher than the eidolons) 2) Temporary hp equal to eidolons hp? Yes.
While fused with his eidolon, the synthesist can
use all of his own abilities and gear.Spell casting is an ability so it looks like you can still cast spells even if you do not have the ability to speak or make somatic...
I would say the summoner always maintains the ability to speak and cast spells because the summoner is still there. You have access to all the summoners gear and abilities including spellcasting. Because...
...the eidolon appears around the synthesist, so that the synthesist seems to be inside a translucent image of his eidolon. The synthesist directs all of the eidolon’s actions while fused, perceives through its senses, and speaks through its voice, as the two are now one creature.
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3. Does the fused form gain 1)Additional hp from Con? Yes. (it may also decrease if your summoners Con is higher than the eidolons) 2) Temporary hp equal to eidolons hp? Yes.
As far as I can tell the summoner gaining extra hit points from the eidolon's CON doesn't actually matter.
For example:
Summoner has 20 hit points, his eidolon adds 20 temporary hit points and adds 4 to the summoners CON score so the summoner has 4 extra hit points.
When the fused summoner takes 25 points of damage the eidolon goes away as do the 4 extra hit points. The summoner now has 15 hit points.
It might matter with regards to some less common rules like Death due to massive damage, symbols and other effects that relate to hit points but in most cases the extra hit points won't matter.
3. Does the fused form gain 1)Additional hp from Con? Yes. (it may also decrease if your summoners Con is higher than the eidolons) 2) Temporary hp equal to eidolons hp? Yes.As far as I can tell the summoner gaining extra hit points from the eidolon's CON doesn't actually matter.
For example:
Summoner has 20 hit points, his eidolon adds 20 temporary hit points and adds 4 to the summoners CON score so the summoner has 4 extra hit points.When the fused summoner takes 25 points of damage the eidolon goes away as do the 4 extra hit points. The summoner now has 15 hit points.
It might matter with regards to some less common rules like Death due to massive damage, symbols and other effects that relate to hit points but in most cases the extra hit points won't matter.
Close, but it does actually matter, I'll bump the level up to 10 to make the difference a little more clear.
Summoner has an 8 con and 24 HP, the Eidolon has an 18 con and 90 hp
The Summoner calls his Eidolon, his con becomes 18 so his HP jump from 24 to 84 (6 point difference in con mod over 10 levels), and gains 90 temp hp.
A few rounds into the fight our Synthesist has taken a pounding, he is at 84/84 hp and 10/90 temp. He gets hit for 20, that's enough to banish the Eidolon so he transfers 10hp through his Fused Link. 74/84 hp 1/90 temp, the Eidolon is still around.
He gets hit for another 10, he now has two choices:
1: Allow the Eidolon to be banished which will leave him at 4/24 hp (-9 from the remaining damage and -60 current and max from reverting to his natural con), he's in rough shape but conscious.
2: Continue transferring hp (64/84 hp 1/90 temp).
If he chooses 2, he can keep fighting, but he's now at risk if the Eidolon is banished, if it's banished while he's between 59/84 and 52/84 he will be knocked unconscious, any lower than that and he's dead.
So the extra hit points from the Eidolon's con are useful, but they are risky to use, because there is no margin of error, if you get knocked unconscious, or the Eidolon is banished, and you are actually using those extra HP, you will die outright.
While it may or may not be optimal, I can see the Synthesist maintaining an identical CON score compared to his Eidolon, simply to avoid messing HP changes at bad times.
That makes sense. I don't think a lot of players are going to be dumping CON that much but maybe.
One curious thing, since the eidolon's CON score *replaces* yours if you have a 16 CON there is a good chance you are going to have a lower CON score when fused with your eidolon at lower levels.
Nah, I wouldn't think so either, the big difference just made it easier to describe the mechanic, but even a relatively small con difference can be dangerous. They have the same problem as Barbarians in that they have a lot of hp, but if they go down, they are probably going to die outright.
Given that a Con bump is not used to get back a Con drained Eidolon (See FAQ) and common sense that spells do not transfer, I would say the latter. The Spell continues to boost the Synthesist's strength, not the strength of the Eidolon.
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actually, given that a str penalty persists on the summoner when the eidolon dissipates, i'd think the revers is true: an enhancement bonus to strength of the summoner would persist when the eidolon is present, effecting your fused strength score.
Summoner: What happens when a synthesist (page 80) takes a penalty, suffers an affliction, or has an ongoing effect when the eidolon disappears?
These effects persist on the summoner after the eidolon is gone. For example, a ray of enfeeblement on the fused character continues to affect the summoner after the eidolon is gone, as would a bestow curse spell or acid arrow spell, as would continuing poison damage. These effects apply to the character as a whole, and just because the eidolon is gone doesn't mean the summoner is freed from the effect (ability damage is tracked separately, as described in another FAQ, because it is a separate game statistic that the summoner "borrows" from the eidolon). If the condition or effect ends (whether from its duration running out, being cured/negated/dispelled, and so on) while the eidolon is gone, it doesn't return when the eidolon is resummoned. This applies to beneficial effects as well as harmful ones--an invisible summoner isn't suddenly visible if his eidolon disappears, nor does he become invisible again if the duration ran out while the eidolon was gone.
(emphaseis added)