Ok, when we will have some Naruto archetypes ? Hidden Leaf Ninja ? Uchiha Ninja ? Ninja Medic ?:P
Personally this would bring me enjoyment for at least three campaigns, but really they aren't ninjas (except kabuto and kakashi) most are loud flamboyant and their abilities can be seen from space, not to mention sneak attacking makes you the bad guy in that series
we already have the shadowclone ability....
so what you say is that we should have a sharingan ninja trick and a huga clay occular ninja trick( cant spell it)
and the fourth lord hokage's teleportaion ninja trick.....
would be fun....
and a healing ninja trick.
yeah
Naruto yells to much.
well atleast nobody mentioned Goku ninja tricks....
We already have a mini byakugan, ninja can get blindsense, the sharingan is a no save die effect that eventually makes you blind, I dont see that working out.
Okay I'm all for the teleport to the thrown shuriken technique, healing worked well for the 3.5 ninja, not OP at all.
and they all yell to much
Edit: goku is a monk not a ninja ;)
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In the Core Rulebook, we have 11 core classes. Only one of them implies any specific racial or cultural prerequisites (monk, Asian).
In the APG, we add 6 more base classes, and add in archetypes for the core classes. None of them imply any specific racial or cultural prerequisites.
In Ultimate Magic, we will be adding another base class, the Magus. It doesn't imply any specific racial or cultural prerequisites.
In Ultimate Combat, we will be adding 3 "alternate" classes. Two of them imply a specific racial or cultural prerequisite.
It may not be "It's Asian so it's better" but it is looking like the only way to have full access to all the options is to be Asian. :P
ummm no, it was the second stage sharingan that would eventually make you blind.
minor ninja trick: Sharingan
master trick: M. Sharingan.so you could take the sharingan and not advance it....
True, but the original has three stages of its own, which do you get? uncanny dodge(in the sense of things move slower in your vision), improved uncanny dodge(stage two), or copy any ability you ever see? (yeah that won't go well).
@Kthulhu, Do you have any knowledge about druids? not exactly an everywhere class either, most of the classes are based on European versions of them anyway. So maybe yeah it wouldn't be so bad to have some cultural variety. would a native American style ranger alternate annoy people this much too?
I think it's a tad silly to be criticizing the Ninja because it's too Asian - the way I see it, Golarion has its own Asian-esque influenced areas. When I first flipped opened the Core Rulebook and saw that picture of those Rune Giants, I immediately thought that they were giant samurai.
Kinda off-topic but not: I imagine a world like the one in Golden Sun, which has some areas that have blatantly Asian-themed sections.
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In the Core Rulebook, we have 11 core classes. Only one of them implies any specific racial or cultural prerequisites (monk, Asian).
Wrong. Bard, Druid, Inquisitor and Paladin can be seen as Eurocentric as much as a monk can be seen as Asianccentric.
Even if you suppose an hypothetical middle-ages fantasy america, very few of the classes would make sense.
In the Core Rulebook, we have 11 core classes. Only one of them implies any specific racial or cultural prerequisites (monk, Asian).Wrong. Bard, Druid, Inquisitor and Paladin can be seen as Eurocentric as much as a monk can be seen as Asianccentric.
Even if you suppose an hypothetical middle-ages fantasy america, very few of the classes would make sense.
Nope the monk has hard wired Asian weapons, which are just different stats for simple weapons. But that had to be different and exotic because they were Asian farming tools :)
We seem to be getting a theme Asian can not be done with the same rules as every other culture on the planet. Sadly Paizo is keeping that going, pitty.
while were at it the dwarves, elves, and half-orcs shouldn't be more special then humans so lets get rid of those odd racial weapons, and the blow-gun and bolas while we are at it too, that is just asking for them to make an amazon style class and we all know racial diversity is a bad thing
/sarcasm
In the Core Rulebook, we have 11 core classes. Only one of them implies any specific racial or cultural prerequisites (monk, Asian).Wrong. Bard, Druid, Inquisitor and Paladin can be seen as Eurocentric as much as a monk can be seen as Asianccentric.
Yeah. Overlook this = double standards.
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Yeah. Overlook this = double standards.In the Core Rulebook, we have 11 core classes. Only one of them implies any specific racial or cultural prerequisites (monk, Asian).Wrong. Bard, Druid, Inquisitor and Paladin can be seen as Eurocentric as much as a monk can be seen as Asianccentric.
As seekerofshadowlight pointed out, the monk has mechanical differences that mark it as Asian (special "exotic" weapons). The bard, druid, inquisitor, and paladin do NOT have any mechanical differences to mark them as European.
Most monk weapons are standard weapons, or glorified farm tool.
And for mechanics behind Druids, take a loot at the Druid Holy Symbol.
Finally assuming you are right, 1>0. There is at least one eastern class in Core, so why not having more?
Finally, I wish to know what exactly is mechanically asian only in the Samurai.
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The bard, druid, inquisitor, and paladin do NOT have any mechanical differences to mark them as European.
So ONLY mechanical differences count when regarding a class as racial/cultural prerequisted?
Also, Paladin Code.
Oo, do spells count? Only Druids get Reincarnate! And Clerics used to get Sticks to Snakes, didn't they?
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The name itself is extremely European. The usage dates from the Twelve Companions of Charlemagne. The armor and weapons usually associated with them are also... very european.
The word "monk" probably conjures up a very different picture to the vast majority of non-gamers. Hell, I'd wager than even most gamers tend to think more of this than of Bruce Lee when they hear the word in a non-game related context.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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My issue is the ninja's 'tricks' are better than rogue talents. They should be equal and interchangable.
Make a feat to give anyone who wants to burn it a ki pool. Then when you want to make a 'sohei' or a 'bushi' and want to give them a ki fueled bonus feats, your western characters can do it too.
I'd also point out for the 'but they lose evasion!' arguments. The Ninja gets *delayed* evasion, if they choose.
The name itself is extremely European. The usage dates from the Twelve Companions of Charlemagne. The armor and weapons usually associated with them are also... very european.The word "monk" probably conjures up a very different picture to the vast majority of non-gamers. Hell, I'd wager than even most gamers tend to think more of this than of Bruce Lee when they hear the word in a non-game related context.
Forgive me, but I don't get the association you made here.
In think to the monk of the link in a non related context. But in a GAME RELATED ONE, I see unarmed strike and similar stuff. And we are talking about the game...
If you're going that way, I'd point out that unarmed combat, movies aside is far from being exclusively Chinese or Japanese, or even Asian. Savate for instance is French.
Cool. One thing:
I guess that infiltration + assassination, or being a badass able to resist to fatigue and killing blows are not "exclusively Chinese or Japanese, or even Asian" too.
:D
If you're going that way, I'd point out that unarmed combat, movies aside is far from being exclusively Chinese or Japanese, or even Asian. Savate for instance is French.
I don't believe you.The Doctor it's Japanese, otherwise I will ban it from my campaign.
:D :D :D
You know, The "Buttero" is an Italian Cowboy. Lives in Maremma instead of Texas - but is a Cowboy.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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What they don't get is access to "improved evasion" which is available to the rogue by or before the regular stuff opens for the ninja. They also don't get trapfinding either.My issue is the ninja's 'tricks' are better than rogue talents. They should be equal and interchangable.
Make a feat to give anyone who wants to burn it a ki pool. Then when you want to make a 'sohei' or a 'bushi' and want to give them a ki fueled bonus feats, your western characters can do it too.
I'd also point out for the 'but they lose evasion!' arguments. The Ninja gets *delayed* evasion, if they choose.
Ok, I double checked: The ninja cannot select improved
evasion unless she has evasion (either as a class feature oras a ninja master trick). So he can get improved evasion at level 12.
Poison use replaces trapsense, the ki pool replaces evasion, which the dedicated ninja can get back.
The name itself is extremely European. The usage dates from the Twelve Companions of Charlemagne. The armor and weapons usually associated with them are also... very european.The word "monk" probably conjures up a very different picture to the vast majority of non-gamers. Hell, I'd wager than even most gamers tend to think more of this than of Bruce Lee when they hear the word in a non-game related context.
I find the idea of a movie which has European medieval kung-fu monks hilarious.
But one could look at it the other way around then.
You call it Assassin, Hashashin, or Frank instead of Ninja.
Buttero = Tuscanian Cowboy.
So, no one here has seen the 13th Warrior movie ? Or the Pathfinder movie ? Sometimes people walk around.
But speaking about movies, there is no greek or roman culture in Golarion, so we won´t have spartans (or hoplites if you please), centurions or gladiators too ? This is a shame.
Actually as far as I can tell Taldor is Roman, their army is even based on phalanxes.
So, no one here has seen the 13th Warrior movie ? Or the Pathfinder movie ? Sometimes people walk around.
To go one step further:
Just for the record, I am pretty sure hashashin and assassin are the same word.
they are derivations of the same word. The hashashin were assassins but assassins are not hashashins necessarily.
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Just for the record, I am pretty sure hashashin and assassin are the same word.
I don´t know how to talk this in english, but i learnt that indeed the assassin word come from the drug "haxixe" that a sect of killers used in their religious rituals. After the crusades the use of the word become widespread to describe the act of assassination without the original sect plus the centuries and we have a word that lost the original meaning.
I guess the word ninja is close to reach the same state, what we think (or even the japonese think if you consider the kabuki explanation for the black suit) have not to do with the original ninja.
Personally, i think the original ninja had more to do with the modern spy than anything else, assassination was a last resource. Their supposed magic powers came for a near James Bond level use of creative gadgets.
But i also find the mystical dark assassin image quite amusing and we already have a spy class. So what ? We already accept polytheistic clerics, so i have nothing against it.
Although I appreciate the concern here, the name is just too iconic for us to change to something like "mystic assassin".
Ninja, I am afraid, will be staying.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
I'd say that's a good call.
paladin do NOT have any mechanical differences to mark them as European.The name itself is extremely European. The usage dates from the Twelve Companions of Charlemagne. The armor and weapons usually associated with them are also... very european.
Yup. 'Druid' carries a similar copnnection with parts of Europe.
The idea of 'monks' as masters of unarmed martial arts, mystical feats of mind over body,etc comes into the game straight outr of the 60s/70 kung fu flick depictions of Shao Lin monks.
The bard, druid, inquisitor, and paladin do NOT have any mechanical differences to mark them as European.So ONLY mechanical differences count when regarding a class as racial/cultural prerequisted?
Also, Paladin Code.
Oo, do spells count? Only Druids get Reincarnate! And Clerics used to get Sticks to Snakes, didn't they?
Sticks to snakes isn't in the PF rules? Aw, I really like that spell. I'll just adapt it. Pretty easy.
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The bard, druid, inquisitor, and paladin do NOT have any mechanical differences to mark them as European.So ONLY mechanical differences count when regarding a class as racial/cultural prerequisted?
Also, Paladin Code.
Oo, do spells count? Only Druids get Reincarnate! And Clerics used to get Sticks to Snakes, didn't they?
Sticks to snakes isn't in the PF rules? Aw, I really like that spell. I'll just adapt it. Pretty easy.
Awww, TOZ didn't read the APG. Again.
Sticks to Snakes is there.
Sticks to Snakes is there.
Sweet! I have the APG among the books to me by my friend Tony.
Just for the record, I am pretty sure hashashin and assassin are the same word.I don´t know how to talk this in english, but i learnt that indeed the assassin word come from the drug "haxixe" that a sect of killers used in their religious rituals. After the crusades the use of the word become widespread to describe the act of assassination without the original sect plus the centuries and we have a word that lost the original meaning.
Fun facts:
The English word is 'hashish.' Some scholars think that hashishinin derives not from the drug, but from Hassan, as in Hassan Ibn Sabah. I couldn't say which etymology is correct. The hasishinin were a radical militant group of 7th Imam Shia, or Ismailis. There are still 7th Imam Shia today, but they don't smoke hash and go about knifing people.
PS- haxixe? Is that Portugese?
Actually as far as I can tell Taldor is Roman, their army is even based on phalanxes.So, no one here has seen the 13th Warrior movie ? Or the Pathfinder movie ? Sometimes people walk around.
But speaking about movies, there is no greek or roman culture in Golarion, so we won´t have spartans (or hoplites if you please), centurions or gladiators too ? This is a shame.
Taldor has a general titled 'strategos' doesn't it? That's Greek. The East Romans, sometimes miscalled 'Byzantines', used that title.
I get kind of an East Roman vibe from Taldor. Not in the particulars, of course. It's not Christian, for one thing.
Before I say this, I have not everything on this post (not enough time, so sorry if repeat someone)
When I think ninja I think 2 things:
Anime
And the white guys on you tube who dress up in Halloween costumes of ninjas and go out in there back yard, and tape themselves doing some crappy white belt kata(sp?) (Always called them forums)
So +1
Before I say this, I have not everything on this post (not enough time, so sorry if repeat someone)
When I think ninja I think 2 things:
Anime
And the white guys on you tube who dress up in Halloween costumes of ninjas and go out in there back yard, and tape themselves doing some crappy white belt kata(sp?) (Always called them forums)
So +1