No worries here tieuelium, I for one accept your apology and understand where you were coming from.
Welcome aboard and I hope to hear more honest open dialog in rounds to follow. Much luck to you and hope you enjoy the following rounds with the rest of us. I also hope you didn't take offense to anything anyone might of said/posted, I am sure they didn't mean anything by it either.
If one has taken offence, then I apologize, as that was not my intention.
"Apology accepted, Captain Needa..." ;-)
Just a bit of geek humor there with the Star Wars quote. Nothing actually meant by it. And, no...the judges aren't Sith lords or anything. Except that Sean guy. He's creepy!
And no worries, Tieuelium. I actually do understand where you're coming from...and I wanted to be as thorough as possible in helping you understand why the contest is conducted the way it is. That type of question has come up before. And I thought it deserved a full explanation. Not just for you, but everyone who might be reading along.
I also sincerely wish you the best of luck in the competition and hope you stick through to the end and observe how it goes.
--Neil
If one has taken offence, then I apologize, as that was not my intention."Apology accepted, Captain Needa..." ;-)
Just a bit of geek humor there with the Star Wars quote.
No worries, Tieuelium. I actually do understand where you're coming from...and I wanted to be as thorough as possible in helping you understand why the contest is conducted the way it is. And I sincerely wish you the best of luck in the competition and do hope you stick through to the end and observe how it goes. And I also wanted de-fuse the debate before it sidetracked this thread any further. So, to all involved, let's move on.
--Neil
*Rune explodes in Chris' face* Gah! I should have been expecting that... Well played LeBlanc... Well played.
Dear Ask a Succubus,
I will have to remember that. Mind you, on the succubus note my wife's novel that she's writing (And I'm helping as much as I can) will probably pique your interest once she gets it published. I'll have to post a thread here when it does happen. Mind you we've now been fine tuning and altering the story for almost 8 years at this point, but we're talking about an epic high seas adventure that will span multiple books.That and it's a serious pain for my wife and I to find the time to do any work on it while working full time.
Oh I'm sorry, epic high seas adventure that includes both succubi AND incubi in it. I don't want to reveal too much, but my wife is an amazing creative force. And no I'm not only saying this because I'm married to her. I'm saying this from the perspective of someone that eats, breathes and dreams fantasy genre.
PS: I apologize, this is getting way off topic, LOL.
Dear Sinister Chris,
The only point to an incubus is when it dies taking out one (though preferably more) of those 'we're so good at archery' erinyes devils. They [incubi] are a waste of space otherwise. Please be so kind as to inform your consort as to that fact.As to the topicness or otherwise of our posts, that's the whole fun of Chaos. (Note the upper case 'C'.) You do whatever whim strikes you.
Hoping that you have found this instructive.
Yours,
Ask A Succubus.
If one has taken offence, then I apologize, as that was not my intention."Apology accepted, Captain Needa..." ;-)
Just a bit of geek humor there with the Star Wars quote. Nothing actually meant by it. And, no...the judges aren't Sith lords or anything. Except that Sean guy. He's creepy!
And no worries, Tieuelium. I actually do understand where you're coming from...and I wanted to be as thorough as possible in helping you understand why the contest is conducted the way it is. That type of question has come up before. And I thought it deserved a full explanation. Not just for you, but everyone who might be reading along.
I also sincerely wish you the best of luck in the competition and hope you stick through to the end and observe how it goes.
--Neil
<starts to move several heavy duty aquariums out of the thread>
Bwuh? What ever happened to capital-C-Chaos? You can't just let The Man kick your fish off his lawn!
The [chaotic] and [evil] descriptors mean feeding your fish where, when, how, and whoever you want to!
Okay. So, I've finished my initial pass on all of the items. There's some really good stuff this year. And, as I mentioned earlier, it's the largest field of entrants since the inception of the contest. All of you should be proud of your work and for taking that step to submit something. And, for those who make the Top 32, it should be even more special than ever this year knowing you were measured against such a wide field of talented people.
Over the next few days, the other judges will be finalizing their votes (and feedback) and we'll settle on everything that's going into the Keep pile. After that, we'll get down to business and winnow all these entries down to the Top 32 plus alternates. Given what we've seen so far on some of these items, I think this year could turn out better than ever. So get ready for one fun ride. January 18th should be here soon.
My two cents,
--Neil
Thank you to all the judges for taking their valuable time to consider the creative works of a bunch of people who may never have had a chance to be published otherwise. Thank you to Paizo for taking such a huge risk to offer a contest to select writers for FOUR adventures. Thank you for all the people who get involved in the contest and just enjoy it for the fun it is. MOST of us have never published anything gaming related and are interested in this solely to participate in the production of the game, never really expecting to become professionals (though maybe we hope to be someday).
This is a fun and exciting contest and I'm happy to be part of it!
Ken
I so second that...
First of all, I'm not insulting the company or the designers by commenting on the contest, in a forum that they created, specifically for that purpose.
....
If your honest, prove it. That's all I'm saying.
You really need to do your homework before you come in here an talk smack about honesty and transparency.
Go do your homework, then come back.
Clark Out.
Was me giving my opinion insulting or inferring that any designer or Paizo employees have done bad?
Was my mentioning something that I genuinely feel would improve the company wrong or insulting?
No, it just shows that you have no clue and haven't done any homework about this contest at all. I think the reason you have annoyed so many people is that all the things you suggest are things that, for all purposes, actually happen. And if you had done any of your homework, you would know that.
Here is what you should do: Bow out gracefully now. Go read the threads from the prior years. View the history of the contest. See how it works (since your comments clearly show you don't know those things). Then come back and maybe people will forget the way you came in. These are forgiving forums, so I'm sure they will. Hopefully your post at the top of this page was your attempt to do just what I've mentioned (before I even mentioned it).
Just a suggestion. Your mileage may vary. I completely embrace Neil's comments, by the way.
RPG Superstar 2013
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Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka Steven T. Helt
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I deleted my post because I noticed you'd already apologized. I'll remember you had the character to back off once you realized you were wrong should you advance in the contest.
A larger pool then ever made my stomach turn. 15 days and counting. Oooo...and look I've got a least 40 hours of distraction ahead of me this week.
That would be March Madness, Seth... ;-)
But, in all seriousness, I can't imagine extending the contest by another round to trim 64 down to 32. I know it's viewed as pretty difficult to review hundreds of item submissions just for Round One. But, in all honesty, it's almost equally as hard to review 32 Round Two submission that run 450 to 500 words each as well. If you made Round Two contain 64 new designs, that workload would be even more unbearable as it doubled...and that would be after coming off the blitzkrieg of item sorting in Round One. It would be enough to burn out some judges...not to mention play further havoc with Paizo's production schedule for the judges serving on the panel.
So, I doubt Paizo will be looking to expand the field anytime soon. The formula is pretty tried and true right now, anyway. And, the contest already plays out from December 3rd through mid- to late-March. That's nearly 4 months. And, adding another round would likely extend that by a couple weeks. Not to mention it could further burn everyone out. Better to just keep going with what's already successful.
But that's just my two cents,
--Neil
That would be March Madness, Seth... ;-)
Are you saying that RPGSS couldn't benefit from the excitement of a play-in game for competitors on the bubble?
It really will be interesting to see the top 32 this year with competition being fierce -- in previous years there are always some entries that I can look at and think, "Okay, there are cool things X and Y about this item, but they did Z which is a clear error. X + Y - Z must still be good enough to place." I'm curious whether an item can still include some clear-cut mistakes but place now, or if the sheer level of competition will edge those out. (Or, whether, for that matter, "wow factor" can still beat out items that are reasonably clever and technically flawless but lack that special something.)
To any judges who may be reading, do you think that getting more quality entries will ever increase the top 32 to, say, the top 64 in future years (assuming you keep this awesome contest going)? Or are you really happy with 32 being the limit for round 1?
This contest generates so much awesome discussion (except for the unfortunate one or two threads like Cartigan's which we always seem to have each year) particularly as it relates to evaluating the entries that in essence Paizo through these boards each year has a little seminar on how to make better submissions next year. One of the reasons for this was to help improve future submissions. But will it ever improve to a pool of more than 32? Hard to say, but unlikely. Though there has been general improvement in item design, there has not been a staggering increase that I have seen in true "top" items.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32
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That would be March Madness, Seth... ;-)
. . . lots of reasons why it wouldn't work. . .
But that's just my two cents,
--Neil
But it would be sooo cool. Maybe Paizo could just hire you on as a fulltime RPG Superstar judge? :)
I'm curious whether an item can still include some clear-cut mistakes but place now, or if the sheer level of competition will edge those out. (Or, whether, for that matter, "wow factor" can still beat out items that are reasonably clever and technically flawless but lack that special something.)
Yeah I'm really curious too. Maybe there will just be 32 technically flawless entries that also have that 'mojo' Clark always talks about. Time will tell.
I have NO doubts about Paizo's fairness. After all, if your work didn't make it to the last round by it's own merit, it probably wouldn't sell too well. They want to sell a product people... why would they accept the lesser of two products!?
That being said, I'm a little confused by exactly what the prizes of this contest are. What exactly is a paid commission the equivalent of? Do you make a portion of the money generated by the sale of your work? I've heard that it depends on the word count, but that does little to explain how much that actually is (approximately).
Also, what the heck does #10 mean under the contest rules:
10. Paizo Publishing retains the right, in its absolute and sole discretion, to make substitutions of equivalent kind or approximate value to the Winner's or Finalist's prize in the event of the unsuitability of any part of the prize for any reason whatsoever.
I don't understand the need for that one. Unless a 6 year old makes it to the top 32 and everyone is getting Bay Watch calendars!? lol.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32
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I have NO doubts about Paizo's fairness. After all, if your work didn't make it to the last round by it's own merit, it probably wouldn't sell too well. They want to sell a product people... why would they accept the lesser of two products!?
That being said, I'm a little confused by exactly what the prizes of this contest are. What exactly is a paid commission the equivalent of? Do you make a portion of the money generated by the sale of your work? I've heard that it depends on the word count, but that does little to explain how much that actually is (approximately).
The prize is to write a 32-page module, for which you will receive the cover credit, and you will be paid to write the module. This translates into about 20,000 words (at a competitive rate per word), judging from what has been said in the past. I don't think you receive any royalties or own any of the IP; I think you are hired by Paizo to write the module, and then Paizo owns it.
In addition, winning the contest and getting commissioned to write a module for Paizo will most likely catapult the winner to a front-runner freelance status for Pathfinder and other related products. A number of RPG Superstar finalists write regularly for Paizo. Of course, you'll still need to work hard, consistently come up with good material, and make every deadline to keep getting work, but that's the case in general.
If you are a finalist, you will be commissioned to write a Pathfinder Scenario module (probably about 10,000 words), and still have a solid chance to write for Paizo or other publishers. You'll notice people like Rob McCreary, Jason Nelson, Boomer Clinton and other finalists listed in numerous materials by Paizo, Rite Publishing, or others.
Of course, there's no guarantee of future work, but if you truly ARE an RPG Superstar, a number of publishers will really want to hire you because you work hard, have great ideas, understand the mechanics, and meet every deadline.
Edit: Of course, then you're an RPG Superstar, not an NFL Superstar, and it's my understanding there's a steep salary difference between the two. But being paid to do what you love is still something that nearly everyone aspires to.
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Though there has been general improvement in item design, there has not been a staggering increase that I have seen in true "top" items.
Hmm, that raises an interesting question: Can you learn "mojo" or is that just something that comes with talent and instinct? I can see how all the resources RPG Superstar provides (the auto reject threads, feedback from judges and fans alike, etc.) can really help an average designer become a better one. I'm curious to see if the number of "top" designers grows as the years go by and these lessons start to sink in.
this is supposed to be like a reality show type of event (at least that was how it was proposed to me back at neoncon) we should be able to view the entries.
You're kidding, right?
American Idol doesn't release the auditions of the hundreds of thousands of people who show up. They release a few funny/humiliating ones, and the folks who actually compete in the "real" contest. After that point, the public views the entries and votes.
Top Chef doesn't release the audition tapes of the people who didn't make the show.
Iron Chef, Chopped, and the thousand other Food Network competition shows don't talk about the people who didn't even make it to compete.
Heck, any show were the actual competition takes longer than an hour minus commercials is hiding something from the public, even if the decisions are made by the public and not the judges talking to the producers.
Consider the first round to be the same as submitting an audition tape for the contest. If you make the Top 32, then you're actually in the contest, and everything is visible to and voted on by the public. Before that, you're gonna have to trust the judges.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32
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Hmm, that raises an interesting question: Can you learn "mojo" or is that just something that comes with talent and instinct? I can see how all the resources RPG Superstar provides (the auto reject threads, feedback from judges and fans alike, etc.) can really help an average designer become a better one. I'm curious to see if the number of "top" designers grows as the years go by and these lessons start to sink in.
I really hope to see some awesome stuff in the "critique my item" thread. Hopefully not *my* item, but other ones. . . :)
The prize is to write a 32-page module, for which you will receive the cover credit, and you will be paid to write the module. This translates into about 20,000 words (at a competitive rate per word), judging from what has been said in the past. I don't think you receive any royalties or own any of the IP; I think you are hired by Paizo to write the module, and then Paizo owns it.
In addition, winning the contest and getting commissioned to write a module for Paizo will most likely catapult the winner to a front-runner freelance status for ..... ETC
Sry, I already knew all of this. I was looking for an approximate number.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32
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Sry, I already knew all of this. I was looking for an approximate number.
I don't think anyone's ever said officially what rate they pay for RPG Superstar.
I think I saw someone estimate somewhere between 3-5 cents per word; so that would be maybe $600-1000. But that's a complete guess, and probably a disservice to even use conjecture. That number could be way off. I know that some publishers pay as little as a penny a word, and web content is often free.
The real goal, I think, is to use RPG Superstar as a way to break into writing for more than just the one module.
Or failing that, apply for this sweet job.
I think most people get into this industry because they love the game, not because they're hoping to strike it rich.
I think most people get into this industry because they love the game, not because they're hoping to strike it rich.
As Ryan Dancey says, there's the joke"
Q: How do you make a small fortune in the RPG industry?
A: Start with a large fortune....
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Star Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 9
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I think most people get into this industry because they love the game, not because they're hoping to strike it rich.As Ryan Dancey says, there's the joke"
Q: How do you make a small fortune in the RPG industry?
A: Start with a large fortune....
Other possible answers:
A:Start the RPG industry, and get out before your ex wife mismanages the company you founded.A: Get bought out by a larger company, like Wizards of the Coast or Hasbro.
Just wanted to say thanks to everyone and hopefully i manage to make the cut, if not, well hey i tried. Look forward to seeing what the contest is going to look like this year.
On a side note, no one who enters the RPG industry expects to get rich, i would think most enter it to try and make the industry better and keep it alive and well ;)
My two cents.
Chief Technical Officer
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Also, what the heck does #10 mean under the contest rules:
10. Paizo Publishing retains the right, in its absolute and sole discretion, to make substitutions of equivalent kind or approximate value to the Winner's or Finalist's prize in the event of the unsuitability of any part of the prize for any reason whatsoever.I don't understand the need for that one. Unless a 6 year old makes it to the top 32 and everyone is getting Bay Watch calendars!? lol.
Our lawyer, who has a lot of experience with contests, added that one himself. I think he wanted it there just in case, for whatever reason, we were to stop publishing Pathfinder Modules, or other unlikely events conspire to prevent us from doing what we want to do.
... I can't imagine extending the contest by another round ...The first year, the contest was actually a round longer than it has been in subsequent years, and a lot of us felt that it just went on too long. It has been easier to maintain interest with one less round.
Not only that, but as I recall it went from 8 to 6 in one of the rounds. Pretty harsh for the two who didn't make the cut; I'm glad it's been changed.
Agree about the length, too, though frankly I'd rather see a shorter submission window for the first round - it's something like 45 days from the day entries begin to when the final 32 are announced.
Agree about the length, too, though frankly I'd rather see a shorter submission window for the first round - it's something like 45 days from the day entries begin to when the final 32 are announced.
I agree, although that might kill the judges, since presumably the number of submissions wouldn't drop proportionally to the shorter submission window.
Agree about the length, too, though frankly I'd rather see a shorter submission window for the first round - it's something like 45 days from the day entries begin to when the final 32 are announced.I agree, although that might kill the judges, since presumably the number of submissions wouldn't drop proportionally to the shorter submission window.
They could just take more time to review post-deadline (and probably still come out ahead). But then Round 2 would be starting even later (though it would feel like less time for some). I don't think it would be a big deal either way.
After going through a hedge-maze of text, I am left with two questions:
- With the significantly more awesomeness professed by judges that is contained in the entries this year, is the auto-reject meter still reading at 90%, or is that with the improvements?
- Have the judges ever even once considered a sassy, loud, but otherwise meaningless entrant to be advanced to round two in the hopes of drumming up ratings?
After going through a hedge-maze of text, I am left with two questions:
- With the significantly more awesomeness professed by judges that is contained in the entries this year, is the auto-reject meter still reading at 90%, or is that with the improvements?
- Have the judges ever even once considered a sassy, loud, but otherwise meaningless entrant to be advanced to round two in the hopes of drumming up ratings?
** spoiler omitted **
The autoreject meter never was at 90%. Autoreject is stuff that just got your rejected right away. That probably caps out at about 25% max. The rest are good solid items that are just not good enough, but not "auto-rejects".
As for question 2, I'm not a current judge but in all my prior years I can assure you that there would be no way to do this. We (judges) have no way to know who has submitted what. It is a totally anonymous process. So we literally could not do that. Plus, even were they to permit the judges to know, I can say it would be a vast departure from how this contest was viewed in prior years to even consider such a thing. This contest has very high integrity, and that has always been important to Paizo. They want to find the best, not just drum up "ratings." To my knowledge, Lisa, Erik and Co would stop the contest before they would stoop to such a cheesy tactic as selecting contestants for the reasons you mention. I just dont ever see Paizo doing that.
Clark, while I genuinely appreciate the answer you gave, I feel that my point was conveyed too poorly and ended up being missed. The answer to the second question is obviously no. I often forget that my 'clever' smirk is not visible in my posts.
After wall of text debate, my brain let all the words bleed together, and this is what I got from the debate: biased judges do things for ratings... not a thing here, so insert snark.
Also, it makes me happy to hear that the autoreject engine rarely runs that hot. Though I don't like having competition on the way into round two, if I make it there, I'll have a lot more to brag about if I managed to wrestle a spot from 75% good as opposed to 90% bad, and if I don't make it, I can pretend that I was 33, so the better overall, the better I did for making the top 33.
Have the judges ever even once considered a sassy, loud, but otherwise meaningless entrant to be advanced to round two in the hopes of drumming up ratings?I'm not a current judge but in all my prior years I can assure you that there would be no way to do this. We (judges) have no way to know who has submitted what. It is a totally anonymous process. So we literally could not do that. Plus, even were they to permit the judges to know, I can say it would be a vast departure from how this contest was viewed in prior years to even consider such a thing. This contest has very high integrity, and that has always been important to Paizo. They want to find the best, not just drum up "ratings." To my knowledge, Lisa, Erik and Co would stop the contest before they would stoop to such a cheesy tactic as selecting contestants for the reasons you mention. I just dont ever see Paizo doing that.
I don't either, but from the perspective of someone whose work requires him to dabble in, shall we say, gray-hat search engine optimization and marketing, the idea is an interesting one. I would imagine that a bump in traffic coincided with the participation of certain more flamboyantly-styled contestants in previous years - and that bump can be (and should be!) exploited by a good marketing department.
Nonetheless, I'd rather be competing in a contest with the kind of integrity I've seen here in the past RPG Superstars. Let's leave the theatrics to Dancing With the Jersey Survivor Idols, or whatever the kids are watching these days.
Sry, I already knew all of this. I was looking for an approximate number.The prize is to write a 32-page module, for which you will receive the cover credit, and you will be paid to write the module. This translates into about 20,000 words (at a competitive rate per word), judging from what has been said in the past. I don't think you receive any royalties or own any of the IP; I think you are hired by Paizo to write the module, and then Paizo owns it.
In addition, winning the contest and getting commissioned to write a module for Paizo will most likely catapult the winner to a front-runner freelance status for ..... ETC
I asked this question a while back. It is not up for open discussion. I am assuming they pay people according to what they are worth. If I get paid 3 cents a word, and Neil lets me know he is getting 98 cents a word I my get upset if I think I am a better writer than Neil so it is kept on the DL(down low, hush hush, quiet tip, etc).
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32
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I asked this question a while back. It is not up for open discussion. I am assuming they pay people according to what they are worth. If I get paid 3 cents a word, and Neil lets me know he is getting 98 cents a word I my get upset if I think I am a better writer than Neil so it is kept on the DL(down low, hush hush, quiet tip, etc).
Well none of the RPG Superstars have turned down the opportunity to write the module, so they must be satisfied with the prize.
If Neil's getting 98 cents a word, there's a whole industry of folks who are gonna be upset. :D
I'm sure he earns it by using the good words. Like verisimilitude and onomatopoeia.
...and Neil lets me know he is getting 98 cents a word...If Neil's getting 98 cents a word, there's a whole industry of folks who are gonna be upset. :D
****
Heck, I'd love to get paid 1 cent a word. I do a ton of writing for the bi-weekly games (considering the DM prep and the post-game logs) and don't get paid a cent. But I get to buy my own beer :)
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Director of Narrative
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Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
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I was just playing around, but yeah, I feel you gbonehead. My first couple of pieces I had published were for free and my first paid gig was $50, which worked out to *mumble mumble* cents per word. It doesn't matter really. Freelancers aren't making out like bandits. We do it for the love of the game, self-expression, and for stoking the fires of creativity.
More on topic, congrats to everyone who entered the competition and took that first step to getting paid to design game material. It takes a lot to put yourself out there. Sometimes your stuff gets passed over and it can be crushing, but if you keep at it or have the knack, it can be thrilling and rewarding to see people using things you've written in their home games, knowing that you provided something that helped people have fun.
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I'm entering the contest for the first time this year, and I'm finding it really strange how nervous I am about it, even more so after reading threads like this, mainly because everyone seems much more mature and experienced than myself, who has only been playing since the 3.5 edition of DnD. I find every day a little more nerve wracking and exciting :-)
Best of luck to all entries this year, even if I don't make it through, I'm going to keep a close eye on this contest, if looking back at the last few years is anything to go by, there's going to be a lot of new ideas from a lot of talented people popping up, and where there are good idea's there's new inspiration! :-)
IllyD
Well said, Mr. Spicer.
Back to the thread's original purpose, I'll repeat how glad I was to enter the contest this year. I've been slow-boating my way into scenario and game design recently, after 30 years man and boy before the DM/GM screen. :) I have been impressed by Paizo's attitude, not only towards games and gaming, but toward the gaming community.
** spoiler omitted **
I consider RPG Superstar to be an integral part of Paizo's amazingly open attitude towards its community. I am thrilled to enter, and will continue to enter every year no matter how I place.
Thank-you to Paizo for running this contest, and good luck to everyone who entered!
OMG! I have a clone in Canada?!
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
aka Benchak the Nightstalker
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I'm entering the contest for the first time this year, and I'm finding it really strange how nervous I am about it, even more so after reading threads like this, mainly because everyone seems much more mature and experienced than myself, who has only been playing since the 3.5 edition of DnD. I find every day a little more nerve wracking and exciting :-)
Best of luck to all entries this year, even if I don't make it through, I'm going to keep a close eye on this contest, if looking back at the last few years is anything to go by, there's going to be a lot of new ideas from a lot of talented people popping up, and where there are good idea's there's new inspiration! :-)
IllyD
I know exactly what you mean, I started with 3.5 as well, but I did pretty well last year, so take heart!