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The author disagrees with you. A post of his saying so was linked either earlier on this page or on the last.
VAST difference between goblins and undead.
I will see your goblins and raise you bits of skin and bone and dark energy glued together in the shape of a man
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I think it is perfectly feasible that an evil Durkon can go on with the group. Just because someone is evil, does not mean they are not capable of long term friendships, even with people of differing alignments. Roy is lawful good, but he is not a paladin and therefore isn't required to not associate with someone based on their meta alignment. And Durkon still can be aware of the self-interest need to keep the world from being destroyed. I think this really just means the kid gloves are off when it comes to dealing with foes. And trees.
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I think this really just means the kid gloves are off when it comes to dealing with foes. And trees.
Iahv Cohme to suck your saaaaap ?
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Trees are a legitimate threat to Durkon now, coincidentally....
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Trees are a legitimate threat to Durkon now, coincidentally....
Ha!
Anyway, I bet that in the Dwarven Lands, we'll see Durkon's evil side, but I bet he's in the quest for the long haul.
But is he out of character to want to protect himself and his friends from a perceived threat? Not at all.
Sorry to quote myself. I just realized I'd completely flubbed that final sentence, and the edit-window is closed. Thank you to the friend who sent me a note offline about it. I know return you to your regularly scheduled, confusion-free, OOTS thread.
Another thing on Belker's "character development" someone mentioned earlier. Remember, Belker is only pretending to be going through character development for the most part. So for a chaotic evil Belkar who was just drained by the same vampire only hours prior, knocking the vampire off when they are no longer in intimate danger makes sense.
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The author disagrees with you. A post of his saying so was linked either earlier on this page or on the last.
Actually, what Rich says is that vampirism is not enough of a reason per se to automatically kill a creature affected with it. He never said that vampires are not Evil. And to be wary of an evil creature is common sense IMO, especially when you have met only recently.
Based only on what Roy knows now, he has no reason not to trust vampire Durkon.Roy: You're not evil? Durkon: Not anymore'n Belkar, I'd wager. Roy: That...is a really good point.
Except that it's not. Belkar was evil before he ever met the OOTS. Yet he has always been a loyal friend to them. Also, being of rather low mental stats (especially WIS), he never was a duplicitous evil.
Durkula (as opposed to good old LG Durkon) is a very recent Evil addition to the party. And I think his likely high mental stats make him far more of a threat than Belkar, even if he was no more evil that that. Belkar-level of evil is quite high actually. Also when facing Nale and the drow, Durkula exhibited high levels of an evil mentality.
Finally, Rich, like many authors, like to play on words for smart evil/cunning characters. They will not give a straight answer but just some part of the truth that the listener will interpret in the way that benefits them most. Malack was doing this. Durkula is doing much of the same.
Which is why I am worried about what Durkula's real plans may be.
The author disagrees with you. A post of his saying so was linked either earlier on this page or on the last.Actually, what Rich says is that vampirism is not enough of a reason per se to automatically kill a creature affected with it. He never said that vampires are not Evil. And to be wary of an evil creature is common sense IMO, especially when you have met only recently.
It's a good thing that the first part and not the second is what I was referring to, then =)
I was referring explicitly to BNW's comment that "it's not racism if it's true for 99.999% of the race" or something like that on the bottom of the last page. By pointing out that Rich says it is.
Teach me to post a response without quoting.
Based only on what Roy knows now, he has no reason not to trust vampire Durkon.Roy: You're not evil? Durkon: Not anymore'n Belkar, I'd wager. Roy: That...is a really good point.Except that it's not. Belkar was evil before he ever met the OOTS. Yet he has always been a loyal friend to them. Also, being of rather low mental stats (especially WIS), he never was a duplicitous evil.
Durkula (as opposed to good old LG Durkon) is a very recent Evil addition to the party. And I think his likely high mental stats make him far more of a threat than Belkar, even if he was no more evil that that. Belkar-level of evil is quite high actually. Also when facing Nale and the drow, Durkula exhibited high levels of an evil mentality.
Finally, Rich, like many authors, like to play on words for smart evil/cunning characters. They will not give a straight answer but just some part of the truth that the listener will interpret in the way that benefits them most. Malack was doing this. Durkula is doing much of the same.
Which is why I am worried about what Durkula's real plans may be.
At the risk of starting an alignment debate: just because you're suddenly evil doesn't mean you have any real reason to betray the people you call your friends and allies, especially since they have accepted you back despite the fact that you're now visibly evil.
You said it yourself, he has high mental stats. Unless there's a goal of his that can be reached only by a sudden betrayal of the OotS, then I say he's solid for now. That may change in the future, but when you're a vampire, having high level friends to back you up is never a bad thing.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Seems like the order is well seeded for an alignment debate. You've got:
Roy, who may be tempted by Durkula (who I suspect will start offering up tactics that are extremely effective, but also evil) despite being pretty solidly LG.
V, who is trying to do the right thing, but has a damaged moral compass and hasn't come clean about what he did.
Belkar, who may or may not be drifting out of evil, but is definitely less overtly evil than in strips past.
Haley, who started out more neutral, but may be drifting to good due to Elan, but still has her own past acts that may haunt her.
Elan, who is pretty much good all the time.
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I would just like to remind everyone of this comic
edit: man, I forgot about the kilonazis
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I've been watching a lot of Being Human (both UK and US). That might be a decent model for Durkon.
His alignment HAS shifted: he prepares spells at dusk instead of dawn and he spontaneously casts inflict spells. That means he's either Evil or his new patron is or both. That means his own alignment is Neutral at best. We also know he's probably still Lawful: If he were Chaotic or Good, he couldn't have called a spiked devil, and if he was Neutral he might have at least made a different choice. Calling a spiked devil certainly seems calculated to mean he's LE.
He might not want to eat people, but it will take constant reminders that humans are more than talking snacks. Willing donors or no, when you look at living, thinking beings the way a wolf looks at a rabbit, that's going to have some impact on the way you act. (Mitchell, Aidan, and Hal all roomed with werewolves because werewolves were something they didn't instinctually want to eat.) He's probably fallen back in with the Order as much out of habit as loyalty (not to discount loyalty: Lawful creatures value that, Evil or not.) What I mean to say is he hasn't been a free vampire for long enough to really know what he wants, so he's defaulting to what he has always done.
Hal: Is this your family?
Crumb: It's my sister and my niece.
Hal: Do you love them?
Crumb: I carry their photo in my wallet!
Hal: And now, what do you think when you look at them?
Crumb: I want to drink them dry! *Shock**Horror*
Eventually, he WILL slip and do something awful: he'll get emotional so that his normal censors let go, or perhaps he'll just act quickly, without thinking (acting in line with his new conscience) before realizing he just did something the 'old' Durkon would never do. Maybe he'll even hold out until they have a resurrection handy and want to stake and revive him, and Durkula decides he doesn't want to be mortal again.
This doesn't (necessarily) mean he's a threat to the Order, any more than Aidan is a threat to Josh or Mitchell is a threat to George. And as Durkon points out, he probably won't do anything worse than Belkar might, and they've been palling around with him for a thousand strips. But he is a danger to those around them, and definitely might do things to their enemies they'd never dream of doing before.
Everyone except Belkar is forgetting that that isn't Durkon anymore: It's (to paraphrase) bone and skin in the shape of a dwarf, powered by blood and dark magic. Everyone else is blinded by, first, that mockery has Durkon's memories, and accepting it as Durkon saves them some grieving and lets them put off looking for a raise dead, and second, the expedience of needing a high level cleric around. The path to hell is paved with good intentions, and trying to ignore an Evil alignment because he's 'Durkon enough' is certainly one of those.
And Belkar only cares because he was the one nearly drunk to death.
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Another thing on Belker's "character development" someone mentioned earlier. Remember, Belker is only pretending to be going through character development for the most part. So for a chaotic evil Belkar who was just drained by the same vampire only hours prior, knocking the vampire off when they are no longer in intimate danger makes sense.
See, but Belkar's "character development" is really going to lead to actual character development. The more he acts that way the more he's going to find he does it naturally.
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So I take it by Rich's comments that things like undead and maybe evil outsiders are just like any other evil creature, and aren't nigh unredeemable creatures practically and spiritually composed of and fueled by evil. That's pretty different than most fantasy type settings that have undead.
This is how most GMs I have played with in the past decade have treated intelligent undead and outsiders. Heck, Planescape introduced outsiders of alignments other than their natural one at least 20 years ago.
So I take it by Rich's comments that things like undead and maybe evil outsiders are just like any other evil creature, and aren't nigh unredeemable creatures practically and spiritually composed of and fueled by evil. That's pretty different than most fantasy type settings that have undead.This is how most GMs I have played with in the past decade have treated intelligent undead and outsiders. Heck, Planescape introduced outsiders of alignments other than their natural one at least 20 years ago.
One of them even made it into the Planescape video game Planescape: Torment, for the unfamiliar - Fall-From-Grace, the LN Succubus Cleric.
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I am looking forward to the brief debate between Durkula and One-Eye, before One-Eye instructs Durkula to drain Elan in front of Haley.
Not sure that Redclock has enough cleric levels to command Durkon. Durkon is 15th level or so, with the rest of the Order. Redcloak is certainly high level, but he hasn't actually cast any Epic spells like Xykon has: he might only be 20th level. Even if he is Epic, he'd have to be 30th level to command Durkon.
Edit: Actually, what's the highest level spell we've seen the Order cast? We've seen regenerate and prismatic spray, but Varsuvius was 13th level all the way back in the siege of Azure City (because zir mass bull's strength affecting 13 soldiers.) Anyway, we can safely assume Durkon and Varsuvius are the same level. They're both at least 13th level because we've seen them cast 7th level spells. And less than 17th level because we haven't seen any 9th level spells (the instant we see wish or miracle, we know the game is almost over). Have we seen any 8th level spells?
Although unlikely, it's possible that he'll command Durkon via Command Undead or Control Undead.
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Both of which allow a will save if I recall correctly (for intelligent undead at least).
Good luck with that. Didn't we already have a strip about this? "Made my save." "Made my save." "Made my save."
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Well she did shoot him with a frost arrow.
Another thing on Belker's "character development" someone mentioned earlier. Remember, Belker is only pretending to be going through character development for the most part. So for a chaotic evil Belkar who was just drained by the same vampire only hours prior, knocking the vampire off when they are no longer in intimate danger makes sense.See, but Belkar's "character development" is really going to lead to actual character development. The more he acts that way the more he's going to find he does it naturally.
That's what the most part was there for. He has clanged, at least in relationship with his cat and other animals.
Have we seen the armored lady starting up this new resistance? I don't remember her.
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She was at Tarquin's party, she's the representative from one of the other countries in the area. He tried to demand she marry him, she refused, he informed her that her country was being conquered as they spoke.
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Heh. All of Tarquin's enemies among the minor recurring characters are joining forces. I'm thinking Tarquin will die without the actual Order being there, still muttering about how it has to be Elan who kills him.
"You can't win! Only Elan gets to do that!"
"Ow..I don't...understa...."
X's appear.
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I'm guessing Tarquin's fall will end up being bonus material in one of the remaining books. Or if Rich ends up doing another Kickstarter, as a reward at some level for that initiative.
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Shame Tarquin will never realize he just has his Villainous Meltdown, which usually immediately precedes the the fall of everything he's worked for.
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New one up, some great lines.Linkified!
"Maybe you're not a diabolical sleeper agent."
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Elan's plan also points to Tarquin's fate being shown outside the webcomics.
This latest strip strongly reminded me of Meet the parents :-))
BTW, do we have any info on who Haley's mother is ?
Based on an old Rich's comment of how Sabine and Haley were almost mirror-opposites, I always thought that Haley might be an Aasimar or even a Half-Celestial.
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What the...when did Elan start putting points in Intelligence? Or did the Player finally look at his character sheet and realize his Int was a 14 and not a 04?
What the...when did Elan start putting points in Intelligence? Or did the Player finally look at his character sheet and realize his Int was a 14 and not a 04?
He only gets 4 skill points per level but they all go into Knowledge: Genre (except for his rank in ride...)
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No, that picture is not visible in The original pole arm emporium strip
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Rich is on a hot streak of getting up new comics. He must be trying to get to the end of the book so he can get it to the printers.
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Well, he is important, cosmically - enough to be referenced twice in the strip!
Not sure that Redclock has enough cleric levels to command Durkon. Durkon is 15th level or so, with the rest of the Order. Redcloak is certainly high level, but he hasn't actually cast any Epic spells like Xykon has: he might only be 20th level. Even if he is Epic, he'd have to be 30th level to command Durkon.
Edit: Actually, what's the highest level spell we've seen the Order cast? We've seen regenerate and prismatic spray, but Varsuvius was 13th level all the way back in the siege of Azure City (because zir mass bull's strength affecting 13 soldiers.) Anyway, we can safely assume Durkon and Varsuvius are the same level. They're both at least 13th level because we've seen them cast 7th level spells. And less than 17th level because we haven't seen any 9th level spells (the instant we see wish or miracle, we know the game is almost over). Have we seen any 8th level spells?
Redcloak recently aquired 17th lvl. When he destroyed "Azure City Underground" he talked about how gaining a new spell level is a blast, and casting Implosion couple of times.
V cast forcecage in his fight with Laurin which is 7th, and I just realized, but summoning a hamatula is Summon Monster IX! I think it's probably an oversight, Durkon would be able to cast Miracles and Mass Heal. Prior to that, 7th lvl Holy word was highest lvl seen (at least that I remember). I think V could be 14th lvl on account of two 7th lvls same day (forcecage & prismatic spray), although he could just have Int 24 or higher.Rich is on a hot streak of getting up new comics. He must be trying to get to the end of the book so he can get it to the printers.
I must admit, I suspected him ever since his "D-did Bozzok sent you?!" moment in the dungeons.