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Huh. I've been rereading the old OOTS comics. I just got to 659: Flight of the Phylactery and I only just noticed that Blackwing's eyes are purple in the last few panels. Just like Laurin's eyes do in 945: Jumbled Up.
Interesting.
Yeah, this was mentioned before. It's... certainly very curious. Great linkage, though. Thanks!
Yeah, this was mentioned before. It's... certainly very curious. Great linkage, though. Thanks!
Isn't it just the reflection of the rift?
I don't think so - it only happens after they're semi-hypnotized by the rift. If it was just the reflection, we'd likely see it in other peoples' eyes, too. It also feels too narratively important - it's too dramatic, as Elan might say, to be simple reflection.
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Weather or Not is up.
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And the hint, dropped earlier, is now picked up...
Kudos to all who premonitioned that one...
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"Crap."
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I think that he's going to be able to talk his way out of this one. It'll take some pretty amazing bluff checks, but I think Durkula will make it.
He has to do something to enable him to get back home. Prophecy tells us he'll be returning.
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I think that he's going to be able to talk his way out of this one. It'll take some pretty amazing bluff checks, but I think Durkula will make it.
Plus, I feel it's too soon for this plot element to be resolved.
Prophecy tells us he'll be returning.
Posthumously. That could just mean Durkula returning, not Durkon's body.
Prophecy tells us he'll be returning.Posthumously. That could just mean Durkula returning, not Durkon's body.
Where did I imply differently?
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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I think that he's going to be able to talk his way out of this one. It'll take some pretty amazing bluff checks, but I think Durkula will make it.Plus, I feel it's too soon for this plot element to be resolved.
I would normally agree 100% with this sentiment, but now, seeing it in print, and knowing how OotS sometimes goes, you have me suddenly (and irrationally) believing that this plot element will be resolved quickly, and that we're about to hit a fight or flight scenario with Durkon.
Though that would be an awful lot of wasted strips showing how Durkula can manipulate Durkon to try and fool others...
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Though that would be an awful lot of wasted strips showing how Durkula can manipulate Durkon to try and fool others...
... and Durkon manipulating Durkula into revealing himself.
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I think that he's going to be able to talk his way out of this one. It'll take some pretty amazing bluff checks, but I think Durkula will make it.Plus, I feel it's too soon for this plot element to be resolved.
Depends if Rich has gotten cold feet over the Durkula arc really. But yes, in terms of actual comic strips, it's way too soon for that plot element to be resolved.
knowing how OotS sometimes goes, you have me suddenly (and irrationally) believing that this plot element will be resolved quickly, and that we're about to hit a fight or flight scenario with Durkon.
I got the exact same feeling! Abrupt denouements are a thing in OotS...
Where did I imply differently?Prophecy tells us he'll be returning.Posthumously. That could just mean Durkula returning, not Durkon's body.
...I don't know. My apologies.
...I don't know. My apologies.Where did I imply differently?Prophecy tells us he'll be returning.Posthumously. That could just mean Durkula returning, not Durkon's body.
Not a problem! I was genuinely curious if something I said could be taken that way. :D
In fact...
"posthumously" could also mean dead and resurrected.
OTOH, horrible things were supposed to happen when he returned, which is why he was sent away in the first place. Durkula (and Hela's plans) would fit better with that.
... this is pretty much my take on it. I think it's too strange for the prophecy to be interpreted as him simply dying and being raised from the dead.
That said, I could easily be wrong. Frankly, there're too many variables to really tell for sure how it's going to work out.
1) We know that he's going to return.
2) We know that he's going to return posthumously.
3) We know that his return is going to bring great death or destruction (or something similar).
4) We know this prophecy is (more or less) why he was sent away in the first place.
These things are what is known. There are quite a large number of ways these could come about, but, by a substantial margin, the most likely is that he is either soon he will be killed and resurrected (and this brings either disastrous consequences, or it simply refers to Xykon returning or something slightly weaselly like that), or he is going to make it to the dwarves as a vampire or other undead and cause grave () evil that way.
Most other things that I've thought of (or others have) are just variants on those two ideas.
I tend to favor the latter - the former is still not out of the realm of possibility, but there are a number of factors working against it, to say the least.
Of course, if Hel is playing some sort of long con where she wants Durkon to get killed and raised for some reason... could be interesting. Strange, but interesting. I could see her suing for some reason.
I'm also curious about the ultimate fate of the Loki-worshiping dwarf (Brunhilda? I've forgotten the name) and if we'll ever see her again.
(and this brings either disastrous consequences, or it simply refers to Xykon returning or something slightly weaselly like that)
It's also possible the disaster is just going to Xykon and the usual disaster that follows the OotS. Durkon being dead fills the second prophecy, but doesn't have anything directly to do with original one.
:)
Can someone linkify the prophecy pages please? I'm a bit clueless right now.
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Here's the prophecy itself:
331: For the Future
Here's Durkon's reaction to it:
333: The Bright Side
Thanks! Where was it mentioned why he was originally kicked out? And the reasons for that?
(I think I remember someone intercepting a note for him and destroying it, maybe?)
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Thanks! Where was it mentioned why he was originally kicked out? And the reasons for that?
(I think I remember someone intercepting a note for him and destroying it, maybe?)
Was it Xykon when he caught Miko?
Edit:
Almost - it was the Monster in the Shadows why Xykon caught Miko.
I'd forgotten about that entirely
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Here's the prophecy itself:
331: For the Future
Here's Durkon's reaction to it:
333: The Bright Side
You also want the prophecy from The Origin Of PCs.
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You don't recall? That piece of information adds a whole new dimension to this debate. It mentions those reasons in
A note for him, informing him of the death of the High Priest and inviting him to return home, was being carried by Miko when she encountered Xykon in the guard tower. The Monster in the Darkness ate it.
You guys rock.
Is that an exact quote?
It was what I remembered, but I didn't remember the exact quotes, thus my hedging and requesting more information.
You don't recall? That piece of information adds a whole new dimension to this debate. It mentions those reasons in
** spoiler omitted **
A note for him, informing him of the death of the High Priest and inviting him to return home, was being carried by Miko when she encountered Xykon in the guard tower. The Monster in the Darkness ate it.
I'll have to borrow On the Origin of PC's from a friend. I gave it to him for Christmas many moons ago, but I never read it myself. Now I need to...
I always thought of that as bad motivation.
If the problems would be when he returns, then he should never be allowed to leave.
That's why I'm curious for the exact wording.
The implication (and take-away) has always been "when he returns..." but... I'm not really sure about what, exactly, that means, or what the original wording is. It's been too long since I've seen it (I don't own it - I've merely read it once, in a hurry, when borrowed from someone else), so I can't recall for sure.
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When next he returns home, he will bring death and destruction for us all.'
Excellent. Thank you.
That... actually could make a fair deal of sense, actually, if it was unclear what was meant by "home" - it could have been a way to actually, you know, keep him from his "home" within the mountains.
Also, the "for us all" in the "death and destruction for us all" - hm, fascinating. Who, precisely, was speaking?
Notice that the prophecy says "his home". Not the mountains, not the kingdom, not the city, not the neighborhood. It could mean any of those things just as easily as it could mean his actual house. Prophecies can be like that. For all the high priest knew, Durkon stepping a foot inside his house might trigger an earthquake or open a portal to hell or something. His options were throw him onto jail, kill him or exile him. And the first two are unpalatable to a Good character. Demolishing his house would only make sure the prophecy meant the entire city and/or kingdom as his "home".
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Also, the "for us all" in the "death and destruction for us all" - hm, fascinating. Who, precisely, was speaking?
Notice that the prophecy says "his home". Not the mountains, not the kingdom, not the city, not the neighborhood. It could mean any of those things just as easily as it could mean his actual house. Prophecies can be like that. For all the high priest knew, Durkon stepping a foot inside his house might trigger an earthquake or open a portal to hell or something. His options were throw him onto jail, kill him or exile him. And the first two are unpalatable to a Good character. Demolishing his house would only make sure the prophecy meant the entire city and/or kingdom as his "home".
This is more or less what I was trying to say. The prophecy is vague enough that if he simply stepped outside and back into the mountains, it could have been a problem. If he walked through the threshold of his house, it could have been a problem. If he entered anywhere within the broader area that the dwarves controlled, above or below ground (more likely below, given that they're dwarves) it could be a problem.
The High Priest caused the problem by trying to avoid the prophecy, yes, but at the same time, he has no context on what the word "home" means, what precisely would happen, and how it would come about.
Making the prophecy come true is a very... Norse thing, really. Attempting to avoid your destiny only ensures it. Extremely fitting.
Speaking of...
** spoiler omitted **
Also, the "for us all" in the "death and destruction for us all" - hm, fascinating. Who, precisely, was speaking?
Iiiiiiiiiiiiinteresting.
I do wonder if the priestess of Loki will be coming back to enact the effect of Ragnarok (or its equivalent), possibly by starting a conflict between Thor and Hel, and sparking all that stuff... I'm curious...
Because it could have been a direct quote from Odin. "us all". Hm.
** spoiler omitted **
Also, the "for us all" in the "death and destruction for us all" - hm, fascinating. Who, precisely, was speaking?
Yeah, sorry about that. In retrospect it is obvious I should have added that detail...
Hey, it works. We've got it, here. :)
Here's the prophecy itself:
331: For the Future
Here's Durkon's reaction to it:
333: The Bright Side
Thank you!
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Making the prophecy come true is a very... Norse thing, really. Attempting to avoid your destiny only ensures it. Extremely fitting.
Actually, Greek mythology is stuffed with it, which is why it has also become a staple of modern European-centered culture. We do not really see how much classical education influences our everyday life and view of the world ;-)
As for the "all of us", I always read it as "all of us dwarves of this kingdom".
Making the prophecy come true is a very... Norse thing, really. Attempting to avoid your destiny only ensures it. Extremely fitting.Actually, Greek mythology is stuffed with it, which is why it has also become a staple of modern European-centered culture. We do not really see how much classical education influences our everyday life and view of the world ;-)
As for the "all of us", I always read it as "all of us dwarves of this kingdom".
I'm aware of the Grecian tradition, but the reason I cited Norse is because,
2) we're talking about Durkon, the whole Dwarven host, and the Northern Pantheon, which are, in fact, the Norse Pantheon (literally as "Norse" means "North");
... and thus the Norse reference was more appropriate to reference instead of Grecian ones (which is also why I neglected to reference the concept of the Moirai - though I tend to think of them as "Fates" instead of "Moirai" - or figures like Cassandra), as the latter are not represented in the Northern Pantheon of the OotS world (and were, in fact, directly noted as being destroyed in the old Crayon drawings of the Snarl).
/pedantic-nerding out
:D
Anyway, as to the latter: that's why it's so fascinating. Of course it can be read that way, but the question of whether or not the actual prophecy is a quotation from Odin, an implication that the high priest took incorrectly, or what.
Since it was the high priest of Odin telling the high priest of Thor, we, of course, see that the hpoO () almost certainly intended to include himself in the prophetic verse as recited to the hpoT, but there are a few ways it could have gone down; here are some (though by no means is this list exhaustive - it couldn't be):
1) Odin said to the priest, "tell him '<insert prophecy here>'"
2) Odin said (and the priest heard as a prophecy), "the next time the young cleric, Durkon Thundershield, <etc.>" (which may or may not include the dwarves - it could just be the North Pantheon, that the priest interpreted as the dwarves)
3) Odin said to the priest, "There is a young cleric named Durkon Thundershield in service to Thor; the next time he returns home, he will bring death and destruction to you all." or soemthing similar (clearly separating the prophecy from the gods)
4) The hpoO () or a unique North Pantheon-based oracle, in a manner similar to the kobold Oracle, made a prophecy of (more or less) the words of the prophecy, which were passed down to the hpoT
5) Some other wording was used by the primary source which somehow excluded the hpoO () and/or other dwarves; perhaps the original intent was only for Durkon's family, or for the local temple of Thor, or something.
When next he returns home, he will bring death and destruction for us all.
I mean, there are more possible take-aways than that, but the last is getting a little "iffy" in terms of narrative - in the last case, we (as the the audience) have been fed deliberate misinformation, without the dramatic insight to be able to guess or think about it, so I find it the least likely.
The others are substantially more viable, and, of those, the only one solidly excluding the gods is the third, though, again, the list is by no means exhaustive.
Another possibility that occurs to me: the prophecy was not given by Odin at all (despite being from his high priest), but rather by Hel. She set the whole thing up to be able to acquire Durkon as a servant/slave.
...?
... what... I... I never mentioned hubris?
I even specified that I'm not talking about Grecian properties in the comic - this is (loosely) Norse-inspired not Grecian.
Am I using strange wording somehow?
I'm not seeing the disconnect between what I'm saying and what you seem to be taking away from it.
1) Norse mythology has "fate" that is inevitable.
2) High Priest of Thor wished to avoid fate (which is inevitable); and thus sent Durkon away.
3) Durkon comes back despite the attempt.
4) Prophecy gets fulfilled.
That's all. That's very Norse.
That's basically Baldr's back-story in Norse myth.
So... it's pretty solidly Norse.
EDIT: ninja'd...
Durkon is not trying to avoid his fate. The High priest Of Odin and that of Thor tried to avoid theirs (actually they tried to avoid the prophecy coming true and thus ensured that it did).
Exactly!
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Making the prophecy come true is a very... Norse thing, really. Attempting to avoid your destiny only ensures it. Extremely fitting.Actually, Greek mythology is stuffed with it, which is why it has also become a staple of modern European-centered culture. We do not really see how much classical education influences our everyday life and view of the world ;-)
As for the "all of us", I always read it as "all of us dwarves of this kingdom".
That made me think: what if Hel and vampirism are red herrings of prophecy and actual doom referred to would be related to gates and Snarl and by "all of us" refers to deities or whole existence as OotS knows it?
That made me think: what if Hel and vampirism are red herrings of prophecy and actual doom referred to would be related to gates and Snarl and by "all of us" refers to deities or whole existence as OotS knows it?
Making the prophecy come true is a very... Norse thing, really. Attempting to avoid your destiny only ensures it. Extremely fitting.Actually, Greek mythology is stuffed with it, which is why it has also become a staple of modern European-centered culture. We do not really see how much classical education influences our everyday life and view of the world ;-)
As for the "all of us", I always read it as "all of us dwarves of this kingdom".
This is actually a pretty decent explanation. I wonder if, prophetically speaking, the North myths (if they still have a Ragnarok, Norse-style) conflate those events with the release of the Snarl.
Is all of OotS some sort of meta-tragedy?
Or is there something else strange that's going to happen if/when the Snarl is freed?
Very curious.
Hey guys I was agreeing with you.
I'll take foot in my mouth for $500, Alex!
And yes, that is solidly norse, it is also solidly classical. You both seem well read enough to realise the similarities between these two distinct cultures to realise there must be a common root culture.
Sure. Good luck getting any two (or three!) scholars (much less gamers!) to agree on what that root culture originally was, though...
:)