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Based on today's page, I suspect Banjo has given up his divinity for a new profession.
Eh. Doctor, clown, either way he can play God.
Awesome link, 137ben.
And now, re-posted for ease...
There is absolutely zero difference between Malack and Durkon's vampirizations, with the sole exception that Hel made the spirit sitting in Durkon's head while Nergal made the one that was sitting in Malack's. Hel is able to put that spirit into Durkon's body because of the physical vampirization process that Malack enacts on Durkon's corpse, which opens a door to Negative Energy and traps Durkon's spirit inside it. Which would also be true of any other vampire created from a person who fell under the Northern Pantheon's domain, though she wouldn't take a personal interest in just any person because they wouldn't be a powerful cleric.
Hel does not have rightful dominion over Durkon's soul as part of her normal assignment of dishonored souls, however, because Durkon did in fact die in battle. She got involved because she is also, separately, the Northern deity of undeath, and one of her "duties" is making the evil spirits for all Northern vampires. The vampirization process basically jammed up the normal disposition of Durkon's soul by trapping it inside the undead body. Where Durkon's actual soul ends up will not be determined until/unless it is freed. It's a like a naturally occurring Trap the Soul spell.
Nothing that happens with vampires in this comic can be extrapolated to work similarly with other undead. All types of undead work differently, that's why they are different types in the first place. Xykon is still Xykon.
All of Malack's dialogue regarding who he is/was should be viewed through the lens of me not wanting to spoil the scene from #946. Some of what he says is metaphorical and all of it is deliberately ambiguous, because I was consciously trying to make you think one thing while another thing was actually true. As a rule of thumb, it is not in my interest to lock down the metaphysics of things if I don't have to, so don't expect that I will have characters exposition How Things Work just to clear up your confusion.
Likewise, any assumptions that characters in the comic know or understand the details of how this process occurs on a detailed internal level should be thrown out the window. They don't. Being a vampire is super-rare; being returned to life after being a vampire so you can share the logistics of how it worked from your point of view in such a way that it entered a general body of knowledge that people would have learned about in the course of their education is simply not something that has ever occurred.
I'm sure there are more byzantine arguments going around that I'm missing, but really, this isn't as complicated as most of you are making it. There is only one way that vampirization works, and it overrides the natural order of things, including where souls go. That's why everyone says things like, "That's against the natural order of things!" about it. However, Hel is not breaking the rules of vampirization itself at all.
I'm stealing Rich's vampirization metaphysics.
Me, too!
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I find it telling that the airship on which travels Durkula, high priest of Hel, formerly known as Durkon, faithful Cleric of Thor, has been struck by LIGHTNING !!!
And now I am thinking that nearly all members of the OOTS could have a high Kn : Religion bonus, either through high INT (V and Roy), Bardic Knowledge (Elan) or sheer number of skill points (Haley).
If I were the GM, I would secretly make the PCs' rolls right now to see if any of them catches on the possible significance of the lightning bolt :-))
And that just might be when Belkar rolls a nat 20 ;-)
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New ones up.
Also, check out the back corner of the first panel.
And the bumpersticker in the eight panel. :)
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Linked for all to get there faster.
Bloodfeast is taking advantage of the natural warmth provided by a sleeping cat.
I did like the bumper sticker. I'm still getting used to the new art upgrade...
Yes to all of the above... but it looks great. It is entirely an improvement in style and that's... impressive.
Yes to all of the above... but it looks great. It is entirely an improvement in style and that's... impressive.
Really? I am not liking it. Too far away from the comic's roots. :(
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Some observations.
First - bumper sticker very amusing.
Second - like the art style. What's a little "off" is that I'm not used to seeing them with "sleeves" - since the arms were only black sticks for the longest time.
As kind of a mental short-cut to kind of accepting the new details:
The idea that in the desert they didn't need long-sleeve shirts, but as they approach the northern lands they need warmer clothes.
Third - While the joke seems to be about V freezing everything, that casual walk-off ending makes me fell like we are missing a few panels. The joke is fine, but something about the way it was laid-out seems off.
Yes to all of the above... but it looks great. It is entirely an improvement in style and that's... impressive.Really? I am not liking it. Too far away from the comic'sroots. :(
Ohohohohoh! I'm so clever! (No.)
But anyway, what are it's "roots", really?
A four-panel gag-strip in a no-longer-published (at least no longer in recognizable form) magazine.
The art is objectively better. It contains more detail, more color, and is generally more narratively-informative.
I mean, let's compare a few strips.
The first one, where it starts out by noting that there was, in fact, an art change (due to edition change - but there's noticeably more detail by the end, compared to the old magazine strips, since, you know, they're not all mono-colored bodies occasionally interrupted by line colors).
Comparing those first few to, I dunno, let's say the Azure City arc yields impressive differences - I mean most of the backgrounds were still simplistic but there are a few notable exceptions.
For a more extreme example, this guy v. the same guy (and the room, basic furniture, and animals) or even just the difference between Roy's boots from the first link to this one.
Or, you know, there's the depiction of Xykon or Red Cloak.
I mean, I guess Thor has looked rather consistent throughout, (though even he has had is slight moments of difference).
Regardless, I'm not saying you're wrong to like the other style better - in fact, I agree that it's not an easy thing to adjust to, and that anyone can prefer any style they so choose. I myself am still trying to adjust somewhat, though it's going more rapidly for me. It's visually different. I'm not denying that. But it's also really well done. And that's worth dwelling on - it's well done, and it tells the story a bit better than planes and base stick figures, which is why, I think, Rich made the switch. :)
When was OotS a 4-panel strip?
When was OotS a 4-panel strip?
Probably since I was remembering incorrectly from the Dragon days. :)
*goes and tries to find some in his ill-organized mess of a room to look it up*
EDIT:
hm... not in 324...
Why am I so ill-organized?! Arg...
*continues looking*
EDIT 2:
arg! I still can't find any issues. I have them. In my room. Lousy boxes due to no storage shed.
EDIT 3:
Ah. In response to Ross' comment below: I see! So, yes: since I remembered incorrectly! :D
That said, most of my point still stands.
It was in Dragon, but as a full-page comic, long after it was successful online.
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While the joke seems to be about V freezing everything, that casual walk-off ending makes me fell like we are missing a few panels. The joke is fine, but something about the way it was laid-out seems off.
Like where's the rest of the team?
#948 showed Roy, Durkula, and Belkar together when the ship got hit by lightning, but they've been MIA since. The two updates since then both had Haley and Elan helping the crew, with V joining in this time, but where are the others?
To make it "official", I'm issuing an errata on my previous statement.
The line starting with "A four-panel gag strip" should be changed to, "A one-page gag-strip in a no-longer-published (at least no longer in recognizable form) magazine." As well, the line starting with, "I mean, I guess Thor" should read instead, "I mean, I guess Thor has looked rather consistent throughout, (though even he has had is moments of slight difference)."
The quote, then, should look like this:
Ohohohohoh! I'm so clever! (No.)
But anyway, what are it's "roots", really?
A one-page gag-strip in a no-longer-published (at least no longer in recognizable form) magazine.
The art is objectively better. It contains more detail, more color, and is generally more narratively-informative.
I mean, let's compare a few strips.
The first one, where it starts out by noting that there was, in fact, an art change (due to edition change - but there's noticeably more detail by the end, compared to the old magazine strips, since, you know, they're not all mono-colored bodies occasionally interrupted by line colors).
Comparing those first few to, I dunno, let's say the Azure City arc yields impressive differences - I mean most of the backgrounds were still simplistic but there are a few notable exceptions.
For a more extreme example, this guy v. the same guy (and the room, basic furniture, and animals) or even just the difference between Roy's boots from the first link to this one.
Or, you know, there's the depiction of Xykon or Red Cloak.
I mean, I guess Thor has looked rather consistent throughout, (though even he has had is moments of slight difference).
Regardless, I'm not saying you're wrong to like the other style better - in fact, I agree that it's not an easy thing to adjust to, and that anyone can prefer any style they so choose. I myself am still trying to adjust somewhat, though it's going more rapidly for me. It's visually different. I'm not denying that. But it's also really well done. And that's worth dwelling on - it's well done, and it tells the story a bit better than planes and base stick figures, which is why, I think, Rich made the switch. :)
Oh, yeah! I went there! >:D
():D
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I don't even NOTICE the art difference.
Mind you, I missed the bumper sticker too, so that probably tells you more about my ranks in Perception than any subjective assessment of the artwork.
I imagine now that the airship will be slowed down, which might make Durkon worry about missing his deadline (whatever that is) and take action, which may further reveal his true intentions to the others...
Or V will just fix it.
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I imagine now that the airship will be slowed down, which might make Durkon worry about missing his deadline (whatever that is) and take action, which may further reveal his true intentions to the others...
It's very speculative at this point, but as we get through these "storm" panels it does seem like the severity of it is not accidental. Thor's dropping some hints maybe.
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I imagine now that the airship will be slowed down, which might make Durkon worry about missing his deadline (whatever that is) and take action, which may further reveal his true intentions to the others...It's very speculative at this point, but as we get through these "storm" panels it does seem like the severity of it is not accidental. Thor's dropping some hints maybe.
More like Thor trying to stop Hel without actually breaking divine law.
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[That Other Guy]None of Roy, Haley, Elan, or Belkar have high bonuses in Knowledge (Religion).
V claims to know a lot about undead, but that was before there was really a plot or attempts at consistency (although, it WAS after Rich decided to make Durkon a vampire).
As he said in the posts where he explains how OOTS vampirism works, though,
any assumptions that characters in the comic know or understand the details of how this process occurs on a detailed internal level should be thrown out the window. They don't. Being a vampire is super-rare; being returned to life after being a vampire so you can share the logistics of how it worked from your point of view in such a way that it entered a general body of knowledge that people would have learned about in the course of their education is simply not something that has ever occurred.[/That Other Guy]
My point about Kn : Religion was not about identifying undead/knowing how vampirism works, but about knowing that Thor is the God of Thunder and that being hit by lightning could be seen as a sign of his displeasure. And that a proper Cleric of Thor, in such circumstances, should be down on his knees, praying for his deity's guidance and forgiveness ;-)
And I do not feel that it is such a high DC to know that :-))
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Hey! You can't retain knowledge from previous events! Thats cheating!
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It might not require a check at all, since they were all told by Durkon that Thor uses lightning as a signal :)
Durkon's not the only one. Elan's sounding very prophetic in that strip:
"You know, like someone tries to kill someone else, or someone is revealed to be a traitor, or someone kisses someone for the first time. And I don't think there's any smooching coming up soon."
So unless someone's going to be kissing Durkon dramatically, I tend to agree with Elan. ;-)
More like Thor trying to stop Hel without actually breaking divine law.I imagine now that the airship will be slowed down, which might make Durkon worry about missing his deadline (whatever that is) and take action, which may further reveal his true intentions to the others...It's very speculative at this point, but as we get through these "storm" panels it does seem like the severity of it is not accidental. Thor's dropping some hints maybe.
Ooooorrrrr...... They're heading north into bad weather and they're in a large flying contraption made partially of metal. Which might attract lightning...
Basically, does Thor control every instance of lightning everywhere within the influence of his pantheon, or can it happen by accident/nature as well?
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Sorry, I gotta disagree with you.
Or, to put it another way, in this comic everything happens according to the "Rules of Drama."
Sorry, I gotta disagree with you.
Yes, but your second link also implies that sometimes the 'reason' could be that Thor is just messing around...
But I was genuinely asking out of ignorance - I can barely remember a panel from last week, let alone last year or earlier! It will be interesting to see how this pans out. Can't believe I made such a redundant sentence there, but you know what I mean...
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Clear the hold. I'm not sure that's the most survivable duty to be assigned. Dukon was down in the hold for a long time, I wonder if Nameless Cloak and Goatee is going to find something that Durkon doesn't want seen...
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"Aren't those the parts you don't have to watch?"
"... No."
:D
EDIT: Also, Wharf and grave-dancing! :D
Clear the hold. I'm not sure that's the most survivable duty to be assigned. Dukon was down in the hold for a long time, I wonder if Nameless Cloak and Goatee is going to find something that Durkon doesn't want seen...
At first I was, "Wait, Durkon was in the hold???" but then I remembered, "Oh, yeah."
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"Aren't those the parts you don't have to watch?"
"... No."
While I was happy to see that V was on the ball, but I thought it was slightly out of character. Being that observant of others isn't V's strong point. I would have expected it from Haley before anyone else. Although I guess V notices things, but just usually doesn't care.
To me, it's in keeping with his character growth, as well as his general ability to comprehend the importance of things. It seems that he's finally accepting the narrative accuracy of the world around him: Elan is proving consistently competent and correct (despite his silliness) and it feels right for him of late. I also figured it was at least partially in response to his exchange with Elan.
I also figured it was at least partially in response to his exchange with Elan.
How so?
I also figured it was at least partially in response to his exchange with Elan.How so?
It's the "And it's not supposed to be!" part combined with his/her normal deadpan acknowledgement and affirmation of what is supposed to be obvious. V has, on occasion (to my probably addled memory) been correct in discussing (at length) the tendencies and foibles of the Order. One of which was the strange - almost preternatural - ability of Elan to foretell the general narrative flow of a given situation.
When taken together, I simply presupposed that, with the general tendencies of the Order, combined with Elan's amusingly simplistic (but oft accidentally semi-insightful, and typically quasi-oracular) notification that the engines were not supposed to be on fire, V has decided that s/he should be on the look-out for other things that should not, in fact, catch on fire (logically deducing that those things that are least flammable, with the order nearby, will likely be flammable).
But mostly that's a minor point when compared to V's general character growth and acknowledgement about the nature of the Order's general presence and the events associated therein (which is why it was an "also" and "partially" as opposed to my leading statement). :)
When taken together, I simply presupposed that, with the general tendencies of the Order, combined with Elan's amusingly simplistic (but oft accidentally semi-insightful, and typically quasi-oracular) notification that the engines were not supposed to be on fire, V has decided that s/he should be on the look-out for other things that should not, in fact, catch on fire (logically deducing that those things that are least flammable, with the order nearby, will likely be flammable).
The joke is that 'flammable' and 'inflammable' mean the same thing. 'Inflammable' comes from 'inflame'. It is not the same as 'nonflammable'.
The 'no' is out of character in that V just let it go, instead of delving into a speech about how that is a popular misconception.
Haven't we seen him do something similar, though?
EDIT: In other words, the "... no." doesn't feel out-of-character, as he's thinking about other things, rather than explaining it to a person. He's done similar.
Fair enough.
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Yeah, V just saying "...no" and not bothering to explain something, when doing so would just be a waste of time, is something we've seen before. That part actually felt in character.
And I totally missed the joke, because I made the (apparently common) mistake of thinking inflammable was the opposite of flammable. I actually thought that exchange had more depth than it really did.
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Yeah, V just saying "...no" and not bothering to explain something, when doing so would just be a waste of time, is something we've seen before. That part actually felt in character.
Actually, I felt that taking the time to answer (by saying No) was unusually considerate on V's part ;-)
And I totally missed the joke, because I made the (apparently common) mistake of thinking inflammable was the opposite of flammable. I actually thought that exchange had more depth than it really did.
And I just realized that being French I did not see how the mistake could be made because we only have "inflammable" in our language :-))