I always found the spellfire wielder feat from Magic of Faerun, very good thematically for arcane casters, but really sucks when it comes to power scaling. I mean, I can't comprehend if it too powerfull for a character to have.
I'm the DM in my party, and it always seemed really powerfull for me, I'm afraid that if I'll make it legit, the non-arcane classes will be made obsolete.
So, I'm begging for advice. What am I doing with this feat? Should I put it in my game with boundries? Maybe drawbacks?
Maybe I can make it a standart for arcane casters? (In my game, Magic is very much like the Weave, Fade and Force of other media fantasies/sci-fies. It's the power of life, concecrated, and manipulated by beings sesnitive to it.).
It would be awesome to have a reply. :3
Is there somewhere those of us without the book can read the class info?
Spellfire does this:
It's raw energy, maximum levels of this energy is equal to your constitution.
You get the energy by absorbing spells, you can absorbs spells by readying a standart action before someone casts a spell that targets you.
by doing that, you absorb the spell and the spell is completely nullified, you gain as many levels of spellfire equal to the spell level you absorbed.
You can use this energy to shoot spellfire energy blasts dealing 1d6 per spellfire energy level used, reflex saves half, this is half fire damage half raw magic damage.
You can also heal someone by two points per spellfire energy level spent.
I think ITS wayyyyyyy powerful, especially the part of the damage and the absorbing spells.
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It's basically equivalent to a free, unlimited supply of Rod's of Absorption, with the exception that there are penalties to having more stored charges than your constitution score, and you can't use the charges to power your own spells.
At low levels the 1d6 damage/spell level is very powerful, but at higher levels you've got much better options.
It's basically equivalent to a free, unlimited supply of Rod's of Absorption, with the exception that there are penalties to having more stored charges than your constitution score, and you can't use the charges to power your own spells.
At low levels the 1d6 damage/spell level is very powerful, but at higher levels you've got much better options.
So, if I add this option by canon to the wizard class, would it make it too powerful? If it does, should I restrict it? Maybe the spell levels can be gained only through meditation or something and you can't absorb spells? Cause the absrobtion is really badass.
and my campaigns are always low-to-mid level.
I'd maybe make this a new feat, requiring Arcane Blast as a pre-requisite. It won't be overpowered by the time you can access it, but it still could be useful.
I want it to be utilized to low level casters, for the theme "Magic is life, Magic is raw energy.".
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Hmm.
Well, in that case, I'd make it a chain of feats.
Spellfire Blast - Damaging ray 1d4 / spell level used. Actual effective level is spell levels used + 1d4-2. Touch drains magic from non-artifact magical items, whether the spellfire wielder wishes to or not.
Improved Spellfire Blast - Damage improves to 1d6 / spell level used. Greater control means that there is no modification to effective level. Wielder gains ability to control absorbsion from magical items.
Spellfire Healing - Heals 2 hp / spell level used. Range is touch.
I wouldn't get into spellfire flight (it's too expensive to maintain for long enough to be useful) or the crown of fire (too powerful).
Just for fun, I found the following 2E stuff regarding spellfire (not sure if it was official or homebrew):
AD&D 2E Spellfire
1st: The wielder is limited only to destructive blasts (no healing), and cannot precisely control the amount of spellfire released. Each time energy is expended, the number of spell levels the wielder intends to use is modified by 1d4-2 (rolled by the DM), but cannot be less than 1 or more than the wielder's Constitution score in any event. Only one blast per round is possible, and this can be fired in a straight line only. All charges and abilities of magical items touched to the wielder are absorbed, whether or not the wielder wishes it so.
2nd: The character can control how many spell levels she releases as destructive blasts. Further, she can now bend, turn, or angle the blast in any way she desires. Magical items are absorbed only when the wielder wills it.
3rd: Two blasts per round can be fired. The wielder can apply Dexterity benefits (reaction adjustment) to the use of spellfire, though this limits her to just one blast for that round.
4th: Effects using less than 1 full spell level are now possible.
5th: The wielder can heal another individual by touch, or can deliver up to three blasts per round.
6th: The wielder can knock missile weapons out of the air. Hurled missiles such as rocks, spears, and daggers are considered to be AC 5 for this purpose. Projected weapons such as arrows, crossbow quarrels, and ballista bolts are considered to be AC 2.
7th: By projecting spellfire toward the ground, the wielder can fly (Fl 12 (C)). Maximum altitude is equal to the spell levels being expended in feet. At least 10 levels must be expended to take flight at all, and no other actions may be attempted in the first round of flight. On subsequent rounds the wielder may act as she wishes, though the number of destructive blasts per round is reduced by one, due to the strain of maintaining flight.
8th: Three blasts per round may be released.
9th: The wielder can summon a crown of fire, the most powerful form of spellfire known to date, by touching another living, sentient creature willing to donate his or her life energy to bring it about. The wielder must spend three times her maximum spell levels per round to create the crown. (In Shandril's case, she must have 42 spell levels of energy available to bring the crown into being and use it for one round.)
I think it's worth noting that in FR, it was not a caster-only power. In fact, the most famous wielder (well, before someone noticed that there was a power in FR that Elminster didn't have and gave it to him) was not a spellcaster.
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So, if I add this option by canon to the wizard class, would it make it too powerful? If it does, should I restrict it? Maybe the spell levels can be gained only through meditation or something and you can't absorb spells? Cause the absrobtion is really badass.
and my campaigns are always low-to-mid level.
I guess if you restrict it to only gaining spellfire-levels through meditation (and giving up your own spell slots to power them), with the additional limit that you can spend a maximum number of spellfire-levels in a given action equal to your caster level, then it wouldn't be much of an issue to give it away for free.
On the other hand, arcane casters already have plenty of toys, are you planning to give the other classes something new too?
So, if I add this option by canon to the wizard class, would it make it too powerful? If it does, should I restrict it? Maybe the spell levels can be gained only through meditation or something and you can't absorb spells? Cause the absrobtion is really badass.
and my campaigns are always low-to-mid level.I guess if you restrict it to only gaining spellfire-levels through meditation (and giving up your own spell slots to power them), with the additional limit that you can spend a maximum number of spellfire-levels in a given action equal to your caster level, then it wouldn't be much of an issue to give it away for free.
On the other hand, arcane casters already have plenty of toys, are you planning to give the other classes something new too?
It's mostly for fluff.
and the other classes always get better things from me. XDWhat if I do your maximum storage is equal to your caster level, and per blast/heal you can only use one level per 4 levels of your spellcasting class?
Really, the only thing overpowered about it is the ability to stand there and ignore spells that an enemy spellcaster is hurling at you. Otherwise, you're just a weak version of the 3.5 warlock with a massively weak and limited channel positive energy ability.
Okay, but I want to add it to the exsiting arcane casters.
Just for the fluff of them manipulating raw energy around them.Is it weak enough not to be ground-breaking?
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Really, the only thing overpowered about it is the ability to stand there and ignore spells that an enemy spellcaster is hurling at you. Otherwise, you're just a weak version of the 3.5 warlock with a massively weak and limited channel positive energy ability.
Indeed, a spell of the equivalent level is almost always better... except when you want to play a blaster against creatures with SR.
Okay, but I want to add it to the exsiting arcane casters.
Just for the fluff of them manipulating raw energy around them.Is it weak enough not to be ground-breaking?
I don't think it would be unbalancing once the spell absorption is removed, and a cap on the number of levels which can be spent at once is implemented (10d6 at first level is a little much).
Really, the only thing overpowered about it is the ability to stand there and ignore spells that an enemy spellcaster is hurling at you. Otherwise, you're just a weak version of the 3.5 warlock with a massively weak and limited channel positive energy ability.Indeed, a spell of the equivalent level is almost always better... except when you want to play a blaster against creatures with SR.
I don't think it would be unbalancing once the spell absorption is removed, and a cap on the number of levels which can be spent at once is implemented (10d6 at first level is a little much).Okay, but I want to add it to the exsiting arcane casters.
Just for the fluff of them manipulating raw energy around them.Is it weak enough not to be ground-breaking?
So, got any idea for the cap?
Spellfire is supposed to be powerful.
its a rare gift granted by the Faerun goddes of magic herself to a single choosen ONE.
And at all times there is only one person in existance who is able to wield spellfire.
Not even her Daugthers "the seven sisters" and neither Elminster have acces to this power, despite being the probably most powerful group of persons on Faerun. - the so called choosen of Mystra only wield in nearly every aspect inferrior version of spellfire named silverfire, which itself is quite powerful but only granted to her choosen and most loyal followers -
So in this context if you consider to allow a player to pick this feat in whatever setting. you should make the fact that this character is wielding spellfire, one of the main points of your campaign or even the story part most essential for your campaign.
Because this is a power which is able in the hands of the right person to tip the balance of power in several ways, and nearly every spellcaster who lust´s for power is after the spellfire. Meaning that a wielder is hunted down by nearly every "evil" organisation there is on Faerun if it´s known he posses the gift.
So when playing on Faerun this means every Necromancer MAnshoon, Fouzl The Red Wizards ..... are all after this single one Character in your group with the sole aim the get their hands on the Spellfire.
So if you want to make your campaign into something like this, and you make the player CLEAR what exactly this means for him - then go ahead -
but if not - you should refrain from allowing to pick this one.
Then even if the other players are ok that the campaign revolves to a great part around the manhunt of one of their members. the Spellfire gives this char a very powerful edge in combat (especially on low levels), which is exspecially hard on every other arcane caster in the group.
So if you have an other arcane caster in the group i personally would really think this over again.
If not and the others are okay with it go ahead.
P.S. In my opinion by using the spellfire on char you already labeled this char as more than special. this char got the attention of a Goddes who gave him this gift with a purpose.
So the char is either destined to become epic lvl21+ or die by fullfilling what he was supposed to do.
Something you seem to forget:
Mystra is dead.
No more Spellfire.
Spellfire isn't unique, it's rare. There's actually an entire class based on spellfire use, allowing you to hold extra spells, shoot AOE effects, cut through anti-magic shells, lob meteor swarms, suck power out of magic items...
The wielder in the SPellfire novels was a pure spellfire wielder.
It was also notable that a Spell Engine completely shut her down, sucking all the energy right out of her. Big AOE on those things, too.
Also note that in the very novel it was introduced, Elminster demonstrates how to use the stuff. he doesn't have class levels, but he might have the basic ability.
==Aelryinth
I´m aware that Mystra is dead -
but the fact that someone is trying to use the feat, by mentioning Magic of Faerun let me assume that in his campaign Mystra or a smiliar entity, able to bestow this gift would be present.
I´m also aware that there are classes which favour the use of the spellfire, i actually played one.
and in fact you are right it is only "rare" i think the wording in the faerun campaign setting - was something like "legend hold that only one person in all Faerun is giftes with true Spellfire at a time "
of course it is up to The GM what to make with these sentences as in general all regarding the campaign is up to the GM.
My sole intention was to warn about the consequences of spellfire using the setting in which this ability was introduced as example.
In my campaign setting, mages (arcane spellcasters) are rare and chosen people, selected by the gods above or taint in they're blood. Mages are raised in circles, very much like dragon age's, and mages outside of the circle are heretics that getting burned on a stick.
In my campaign world, mages are shapers of reality, ones that people fear and worship as gods. Sometimes a mage does venture outside a circle and because of his training and pious religion (my world is extremely religious) he may become a trustworthy member of society.
I want something that's similiar to spellfire but only a lot weaker, to show they are "Chosen", they are "Gifted".
In my world being a mage is really a pain in the ass, and being a divine caster really isn't.
So I'm asking for advice about how to scale the power level of this ability waaaaaay down so I could have my mages deal with it.
(And as I mentioned, the magic in my world is the living energy of everything, it is contained by the smallest of rocks, a plant, a cat, a person, a demon or even a greater god.)
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If you want it to be common among low-level mages, then I would just eliminate the prerequisite for Arcane Blast. If you want it to be extremely common, then give it to them at 1st level as a bonus feat. But if you do that, then I advise giving all the other classes a pretty good bonus feat as well.
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What Elminster has is a very similar ability known as Silver Fire, an ability Mystra grants to her Chosen.
I think it was later on retconed into full-blown spellfire. Because Mystra forbid there be anyone in the entire g~+#&%n campaign setting who has even one ability that functions on a higher level than Mary Su...er...Wesley Crush...er...Elminster.
What Elminster has is a very similar ability known as Silver Fire, an ability Mystra grants to her Chosen.Spellfire isn't unique, it's rare. There's actually an entire class base Elminster demonstrates how to use the stuff. he doesn't have class levels, but he might have the basic ability.
==Aelryinth
go back and read Spellfire. He actually demonstrates the use of it. He has the ability, and it's not silver fire.
===Aelryinth
I played a Spellfire Wielder Fighter/Wizard (and later Eldritch Knight). It is in no way unbalanced. You have to ready an action to absorb spell - thus preventing you from absorbing your own spells and preventing your from doing other things at the same time. You have to take a standard action to use it, so no casting spells, except quickened.
The only thing that should be added is to limit single discharge to a maximum of one spell level per character level to prevent 10d6 blast from first level character after a whole adventure of absorbing first level spells. Otherwise the blasts are not so wonderful as they require both ranged/melee touch attack AND allow Reflex save for half.
Warlock 1 with Spellfire is actually warlock that has to spend his turns absorbing energy to gain ability that is mostly redundant to his own (if we take into account the limit of energy spend per blast of course). Otherwise he is no more or less wrong than wizard, sorcerer or anything else wielding spellfire.
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The only thing that should be added is to limit single discharge to a maximum of one spell level per character level to prevent 10d6 blast from first level character after a whole adventure of absorbing first level spells. Otherwise the blasts are not so wonderful as they require both ranged/melee touch attack AND allow Reflex save for half.
Ah, but the point of spellfire (at least as originally used in the novel) was that it made Shandril able to stand up to the archmages that were hunting her down, despite the fact that she was at best a few levels of commoner.
Warlock 1 with Spellfire is actually warlock that has to spend his turns absorbing energy to gain ability that is mostly redundant to his own (if we take into account the limit of energy spend per blast of course). Otherwise he is no more or less wrong than wizard, sorcerer or anything else wielding spellfire.
Ah, but the lack of redundancy comes into play with what amounts to freaking immunity to targeted magic.
Ah, but the point of spellfire (at least as originally used in the novel) was that it made Shandril able to stand up to the archmages that were hunting her down, despite the fact that she was at best a few levels of commoner.
Wasn't she an expert or very low level Rogue/Bard? I only read a short story being part of that novel.
And I am focusing about application of Spellfire Wielder feat in-game as part of mechanics instead of plot driven I-WIN button.
Ah, but the lack of redundancy comes into play with what amounts to freaking immunity to targeted magic.
Oh, yes, I forgot that Eldritch blast is subject to SR. So it saves one higher level invocation that allowed pass through SR. Until you ran out of gathered energy.
However, opponents that are immune to magic do not use magic often enough to give time to absorb enough energy. One can only hope that some otyher spellcaster was casting enough spells that could be absorbed yto charge before.
Wasn't she an expert or very low level Rogue/Bard? I only read a short story being part of that novel.
Shandril was a Level 1 Rogue who then multiclassed into Spellfire Wielder.
The first book was ok, the rest was just screwing the character over for s+*+s and giggles.
I read all the books, and yes she was a level 1 THIEF (2nd edition), in fact she stole a group of adventures stuff just to join them, when she ran away from home to become an adventurer. There was a special spellfire progression class in second edition, but in 3.0 FR they made a prestige class for it.
What Elminster has is a very similar ability known as Silver Fire, an ability Mystra grants to her Chosen.I think it was later on retconed into full-blown spellfire. Because Mystra forbid there be anyone in the entire g+&+!~n campaign setting who has even one ability that functions on a higher level than Mary Su...er...Wesley Crush...er...Elminster.
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How about this ?
Spellfire as a wizard's "school":
Spellfire
You trained your body and learned to harvest the raw magical energies into pure silvery-white flames.
Spellfire conversion (su)
You can absorb spells targeted at you (single target spells, spells that requires a ranged touch or melee touch attack) like a rod of absorption, with the expection that you can contain a number of levels equal to your caster level. You do not need to ready an action to absorb a spell, but you must be aware of the spell's point of origin and you must not be caught flat-footed.
Absorption is not automatic. To absorb a spell, you must succeed a Constitution check versus the spell's DC. If the spell does not have a DC, it is calculated as if it had one. If you succeed the check, the spell is absorbed into your body, while failure means that the spell affects you normally. You gain levels equal to the absorbed spell's level, referred as "spellfire levels". You cannot absorb spells if your body is at full level capacity, until you expend them (see below).
Spellfire flame (su)
You can expend spellfire levels as melee touch or ranged touch attacks as part of an attack action, much like you would wield weapon; it either manifests as a disruptive flash (melee) or as a flaming orb (ranged) that deals 1d6 per expended level that deals double damage on a critical hit. The orb has a range of 60 feet, with up to 5 range increments.
You decide how many levels you wish to use into each attack. For example, a 12th-level wizard with 12 spellfire levels could make a regular full-attack action with 2 attacks, each dealing 6d6 points of damage or the first attack dealing 10d6 and the second dealing 2d6. Using this ability does provoke attacks of opportunity.
Spellfire boost (su)
At 8th level, you can expend spellfire levels to enhance your own spells as a swift action in a round. You can enhance your spells by increasing your spell's DC by +1 by expend spellfire level, by adding a +1 bonus by expend spellfire level for your caster level check to bypass spell resistance or by adding a +1 point of untyped damage by expend spellfire level. The damage bonus only applies for damage-dealing spells; in the case of spells like magic missile and scorching ray, the bonus only applies to the first missile/ray.
Selecting this school also substitute your bonus feats at 5th, 10th, 15 and 20th level. You get these abilities instead.
Spellfire healing (su)
At 5th level, you can expend spellfire levels to heal wounds. You may expend any number of levels with a melee touch as a standard action. Each expended spellfire level cures hit points equal to your Int modifier when used on living creatures and deals the same ammount on undead creatures.
Spellfire drain (su)
At 10th level, you can drain charges from magic items and convert them into spellfire levels. You must touch the item, as a melee touch attack, and make a Constitution check, much like you would do to absorb a spell. A DC 15 is required for single-charged items, like a potion, scroll or any one-time use item; a DC 20 is required for greater charged items, like wands, staves or any multiple-charged item; a DC of 30 is required for permanent magic items, like rings, gloves, boots, weapons or any other magic item without charges.
If the item is held, the carrier may make an opposed attack roll against yours and win it to prevent you from draining it. You may drain one charge equal to your Int modifier.
Spellfire flight (su)
At 15th level, you can expend spellfire levels to fly as per the fly spell. Each minuet spent with this ability active expend 1 spellfire level.
Spellfire crown (su)
At 20th level, you can expend spellfire levels to form a fiery halo above your head as a swift action. This halo grants Damage Reduction to magic equal to half your caster level, resistance to fire equal to 5 + your caster level and radiate light equal to the daylight spell and counts as a light spell of your caster level for the purpose of dispelling darkness spell. As a standard action, you may expend all your spellfire level into a destructive 20-foot radius burst that deals 1d6 per expended level. A Reflex save equal to 10 plus half of your caster level plus your Int modifier halves the damage.
This is what I have in mind for a revision. What do you think ?
Spellfire turned her into a MacGuffin... the novels were pretty much a standard MacGuffin plot. Would you really expect her to have a "live happily ever after" scenario? It pretty much ended about the only way it could.Wasn't she an expert or very low level Rogue/Bard? I only read a short story being part of that novel.Shandril was a Level 1 Rogue who then multiclassed into Spellfire Wielder.
The first book was ok, the rest was just screwing the character over for s!&!s and giggles.
Yeah it is mentioned many times that Spellfire wielders always, always go supernova eventually in the Shandril saga. Elmister even had a lover who was an Incantatrix who was a spellfire wielder who died because of it.
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Minor thread necromancy restarted this, I guess.
Ah, but the lack of redundancy comes into play with what amounts to freaking immunity to targeted magic.Oh, yes, I forgot that Eldritch blast is subject to SR. So it saves one higher level invocation that allowed pass through SR. Until you ran out of gathered energy.
You misunderstood me. I wasn't saying that the spellfire wielder could affect magic-immune creatures. I was saying that the spellfire wielder basically IS a magic-immune creature. Throwing lightning bolts or fireballs or sleep spells or whatever at her doesn't kill her, it just recharges her batteries.
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You misunderstood me. I wasn't saying that the spellfire wielder could affect magic-immune creatures. I was saying that the spellfire wielder basically IS a magic-immune creature. Throwing lightning bolts or fireballs or sleep spells or whatever at her doesn't kill her, it just recharges her batteries.
An immunity that requires you do nothing every round. Not that impressive.
I think the mechanics need to be reviewed, and you should just work it into the wizard class if you want every wizard to have it, getting increasingly powerful with levels.
probably allowing them to burn spellslots to shoot blasts of energy shouldnt be a problem, get some feats allowing multiple blasts in a round or templates, a bit like a warlock's eldritch essence.
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An immunity that requires you do nothing every round. Not that impressive.
Except that's not how it worked, at least in earlier (pre-3.X) editions. If a spell targeted you, it got absorbed and you weren't affected. It required no effort on your part. While the wizard chumps throw SoD spells at you, you ignore them until you decide to erase their existence with a bolt of spellfire or two. And by ignore their existence, I mean you can concentrate on enemies that are an actual threat, like fighters or the like.
I created a spell fire conversion using a feat tree. It's a bit different than the old spell fire, and it probably isn't what you want, but it's here anyways.
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Except that's not how it worked, at least in earlier (pre-3.X) editions. If a spell targeted you, it got absorbed and you weren't affected. It required no effort on your part. While the wizard chumps throw SoD spells at you, you ignore them until you decide to erase their existence with a bolt of spellfire or two. And by ignore their existence, I mean you can concentrate on enemies that are an actual threat, like fighters or the like.
I thought we were talking about the 3.5 Magic of Faerun version. The one that requires you ready an action to absorb the spell. So, like counterspelling, you are giving up your action to MAYBE stop an enemy spell. While stopping that first spell may win you the battle, if it doesn't then you are unlikely to be given a chance to absorb another spell. So how many spell levels are you going to get? At best, nine? Oh no, you can throw a 9d6 ray at someone. Better errata that quick!
Spellfire should never become the default system of magic as it presently exists in D20 mechanics. Rememmber that these folks not only can recharge off of spells, they can drain charged items, suppress permanent ones, and dispel standing magical effect at a touch by draining into them.
It's a mechanic that can easily become an IWIN button even with the restrictions I set.
Aha, you're talking about the Spellfire Channeler prestige class and not the Spellfire Wielder feat. I thought this thread was about the feat. While that solves the 'where do I get the levels from' problem, it is a one-shot deal. Any round you use your stored levels is a round you cannot ready to absorb. Thus, you can shoot your megabazillion blast and hope it kills every spellcaster you are up against. But if it doesn't, you're stuck with a normal characters defenses against their return shot.
I dont know of anyone who consider 4th ed Realms canon.Something you seem to forget:
Mystra is dead.
No more Spellfire.
4th edition Spellscared Savant paragon path 12th level utility power: Spellfire Healing. It seems that spellfire is alive and kicking, er burning. It's just morphed into Spellplague and Spellscars.