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This is awesome info. Thanks very much for your help. I will certainly bring this to the party to give them advice. Yeah they did go into the fight with the 'i smash, i heal, i blast.' Kind of thing so they will have to reassess tactics.

I like the fact that creative things are being done with Orik. In my campaign he is recruited by the pcs and turned into and npc. He's also a love interest for the sorcerer. Mainly cause she's angry and mouthy as well. Since he seems to like that in a woman

Also restoration is not really an in battle spell. It takes 3 rounds to cast. Plus i don't understand how a party could wipe one out in 2 rounds. Unless players are super optimized or fudging their dice rolls

Oh right there's a rogue as well.

What is the party?

It makes a big difference as to possible tactics. AC31 should not be that hard to hit for a melee combatant I would expect an attack score of at least 22 for a front line melee (actually higher but that would seem to be a minimum), I know last week my party of Lvl 16 Cleric, Synthesist summoner, Paladin and Spellslinger with a lvl 14 Paladin Cohort went through 2 Hungerers and 4 Lamia Matriarch clerics in about 2-3 rounds with only some minor wisdom damage which 2 Restorations fixed a few spells and 2 smite evils expended. (I know they are higher level but they also had more then twice the opposition).

Myself I don't use random encounters at all as they just slow the game down but that is not the issue in this case

Presently the party is Barbarian, fighter, sorcerer, and oracle.

With 220 hp they couldnt do dmg fast enough before the wisdom drain stacked up to kill someone. No save with drain when the bab is 29 to start is crazy

So I've been running ROTRL and during the wander to rimeskull they had a random encounter with a lama hungerer. I rolled with it because it was a CR 15 and they are 5 level 13 characters. I figured it shouldn't be too bad. But that thing shut them down so hard. With 31 ac, dr 10, elemental resistances and immunity, Sr as well as wisdom drain and several other abilities.
How does the party even deal with that?
Normally I can give some insight afterwards so they don't get too discouraged, but I don't have a clue what they could do.
Anyone have any advice?

So i have recieved the order finally. Both ended up at my previous address. The book came last week and the miniatures came on tuesday

Alrighty. I double checked my address and noticed my current address wasnt the primary so hopefully it ended up at my parents house which was the old address. But i shall let you know as soon as i get them.

Cheers
Mike

I was just wondering if there has been any issues with products crossing over to canada, because it says in my account that Adventure path #53 shipped on Jan 20 and it is presently Feb 16 and I have not received it yet. I also had three miniatures ship on Feb 3 and I had selected the 7 to 11 days shipping option and that hasn't arrived either. So I'm concerned that it either has been lost in the mail or it's stuck at the border for some reason.

Any help is muchly appreciated

Mike Appleby

William Edmunds wrote:

The PRD says "A good cleric (or one who worships a good deity) channels positive energy and can choose to deal damage to undead creatures or to heal living creatures." Does that mean he can do one or the other when the need arises, or that he can *only* do one or the other... ever?

Any given time the cleric channels he may A) heal people, or B) blast the undead. He can alternate each round if he likes. But he can't do both at once by RAW.

It's funny though, I totally disagree with that whole thing in the rules. If a cleric uses the channel positive energy it bursts out in it's radius it should affect all those that are able to be affected by it. If something is within it and has a negative energy affinity they take damage, if they don't and aren't a construct then they get healed.

Was that taken out cause it was deemed over powered? It sure doesn't seem so since it's situational for damage. IMO.

So I just got the Adventure path on Friday. It's funny there was a post mark from San Bernardino CA though it says it shipped from Radmond WA. Must have gone the wrong direction first lol. I'm glad to have gotten it.

Thanks again for your support.

It looks like our delivery estimates put it to be delivered by March 1st, and while it is definitely running late, let's give it a few more days and see if it turns up. If you haven't received it by next week, please let us know and we'll get a replacement out to you with your next subscription shipment.

Cool. That sounds good to me. Hopefully it's just a person asleep at their job at the post office and it will come soon. I know Canada post can be iffy sometimes, so who knows.

I'm have a subscription to the adventure paths. I had received an email on Feb 9 saying the Serpent skull adventure path was to ship on Feb 11 and it is now Mar 8 and I haven't received it yet. I was just concerned cause it's almost been a month now.

One of the basic problems is that the system lumps both looks and personality under Charisma.

So dump CHA:
Is he just ugly/ deformed/ problems
(Spawn would have a very low charisma, as would V from the movie V for Vendetta)
Is he maladjusted socially? And how?
I can think of quite a few examples:
The misogynist (get me mah sammich, woman) around females in power
A bigot
My personal favorite, the crusty "old sarge" from most any war film (constant vulgar language and insults that he doesnt realize are insults)
"Gibbs" from NCIS would be a low CHA character
So would McGee and, to a lesser extent Abby
Intelligent and wise, but socially awkward

That doesnt necessarily affect his ability to interact with people, though.
Look how many musicians are but-ugly (most rockers) but still have force of personality
And look actors that are attractive, but have the personality (outside of their roles) of a stump

Hitler was ugly as sin, but managed to lead the world into war
Churchill was compared to a bulldog, and recognized for his charisma
Donald Trump is considered attractive (:roll:) yet the man has an abrasive personality, as do many reality show B and C rate hollywood stars that go on them (just look at Snooki and Paris Hilton)

So first, if you want to have your players roleplay their charisma, you need to specify what it signifies more specifically in your game:
Is it primarily looks
Or personality
Or is it just "first impression"

I think that's true more or less. Though as a DM I usually ask the player if they take a stat that's below average if they can illustrate why it is that way .i.e low cha then he's deformed or morose and what not. My fave though is one of my player's Rogue has a low Wiz and he says it's cause he's always has a buzz going so he's a little less than attentive. With that knowledge I'm able to give character related reasons why there may be social difficulties for low Cha. Rather than the blanket statement like that NPC hates women or things like that.

There's always reasoning for dump stats (I hope at least), but that doesn't make a player stupid or inferior for the decision. Cha is useful in battle too because of some feats. Or you may save your party from a a situation that would completely wipe them out with a good diplomacy roll.

Funny, there's this other thread bemoaning how you can't apply dex to damage (without highly qualified feats or homebrew). I think this thread answers that one.

That's why I liked the Swashbuckler class in 3.5 because of that insightful strike special ability. Though now that I think of that I think it was the intelligence bonus that added to damage. But I totally get what you mean.

I, too, am considering a fighter/rogue for the Improved Feint. If I understand the rules correctly, using a move action would mean getting only 1 attack in the round, although that wouldn't be an issue until s/he gets multiple attacks.

One thing we have found quite effective is having two rogues flanking the same opponent.

In one of the other campaigns I ran one of the people created a fighter/rogue with Improved Feint and all that and it was pretty wicked to see. As the DM I had a hard time not laughing cause I was imagining the enemy screaming "How does he keep stabbing my Liver!!!"

A rogue's sneak attack damage IS impressive and sounds like a lot, but even 6d6 damage only averages out to 18 points extra damage per attack. Not a whole lot. Compare that to a fighter who is probably dealing twice that per attack (and his attacks are at a higher bonus to hit) and you realize its not broken.

Best combo I've seen so far is a monk and rogue team as flanking buddies. monk would stun/trip the opponents and the rogue would wail on them :)

So far the most OHMYGODLOOKATTHEDAMAGE i've seen is the paladin i'm playing in the second darkness campaign. we're 12th level and i'm doing on average 150 points damage per round, more if i'm smiting.

Hitting with 4 sneak attacks, and rolling 24d6 damage LOOKS really impressive and frightening, but ultimately its often misleading.

"Is that thunder....or are you rolling for damage?"

In the game I'm running the rogue totally outshines the fighter. They are using an +1 elven curve blade so rolling a d10 and able to use 5d6 sneak atk on every hit. they are able to do from 42 to 18 dmg per hit. The fighter using a +1 longsword does 19 to 12 dmg each hit. So when a rogue one or two shots enemies. while the fighter goes for 2 to 3 rounds to do the same job. It becomes a little noticeable

In short, all the stats are well and good, but they play a much, much smaller role in what your character can do, and more importantly, who they are. I do not play a Lawful Good Str 16, Dex 12, Con 7, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 18. I play Ashmae the Haunted, Paladin of the Goddess of Death and Magic, who struggles to find her place in the world that fears her and her ways, who protects well meaning Necromancers and the innocent, and will one day ascend to the status of an Archlich (those are good liches, by the way) so that her radiant sword will forever ward the lands against tyranny.

I like the increased depth. Makes for better roleplaying. Some things are usually set in stone (you can only pickup just so much weight with a certain strength score, but then again you might have a feat that lets you treat your strength as more for carrying, so...) but others definitely are not, which gives us far, far more room to develop our characters, and build them in a way that we can be happy with both in and out of game.

Ashiel,I certainly agree with you on that. As a DM I enjoy very much when a player takes the time to be creative and make a deep and interesting character it makes my job more fun when I can make player specific plot hooks and items and whatnot. During the campaign you can really see who has evolved as a character cause they are well flushed out and those who are not. The premise for that Paladin sounds pretty awesome to me. The sorcerer that you created seems pretty interesting too, though I could imagine the headaches it would cause with a Cha that high lol.

I do think it is hard as a DM sometimes because sometimes players forget that it isn't always DM vs players, and that their sole reason isn't to screw the players. I had a friend who has way more experience pen up a wizard to take on the party little did I know at the time that he put in spells to mess with each character specifically. Boy the players did not like that one bit. Especially when he used a contingency spell and teleported away robbing them the satisfaction of killing him. Now that is an example of the Dm screwing the party.
The wave of hostility certainly comes fast and hard even on a lucky shot, An elasmosaur caught the rogue by surprise and hit her with a crit and took her down to -11 her con was 12 and they players were just short of throwing their dice at me. I can't fudge my way out of a confirmed natural 20 and they saw the dice roll, and yet the hostility rained down.

I have noticed on the Adventure path boards often lists character deaths and things like that, some of the people who are DM's that list them seem pretty smug about it IMO. Thus possibly continuing the stigma that dm's purposely screw the players.

Maybe if everyone was issued a Reputation-esque score, with a trait for noble-born directly modifying it (similar to Rich Parents modifying starting GP), you might have something that would be easily usable for this sort of thing.

Just an idea.

Oh! Now that sounds like a really interesting idea. That would certainly go well with how the party I'm DMing. They often do things that I'm not expecting like deciding to talk with a Mimic instead of fighting it and managing to make it friendly.

Ashiel, you bring up lots of interesting things for debate. It's funny some of the comments remind me of a friend of mine, that's pretty cool.

QOShea wrote:

Drejk wrote:

Wasn't she an expert or very low level Rogue/Bard? I only read a short story being part of that novel.

Shandril was a Level 1 Rogue who then multiclassed into Spellfire Wielder.

The first book was ok, the rest was just screwing the character over for s!&!s and giggles.

Spellfire turned her into a MacGuffin... the novels were pretty much a standard MacGuffin plot. Would you really expect her to have a "live happily ever after" scenario? It pretty much ended about the only way it could.

Yeah it is mentioned many times that Spellfire wielders always, always go supernova eventually in the Shandril saga. Elmister even had a lover who was an Incantatrix who was a spellfire wielder who died because of it.

We have had a few misprints of our hardcover books - I'm sending a replacement APG out with your next subscription shipment.

Please send photos of the binding damage to customer.service@paizo.com (please reference this messageboard post). Thanks!

Oh wow! That's awesome I didn't even expect that. I just figured I'd let you know. But wow! You guys are the best ever

I shall get right on taking some pics regarding the binding.

Thanks so much.

Cheers.

So I have noticed a couple of problems with some of the books and the glue for the binding just falling apart. The Second Darkness Armageddon Echo module completely fell apart, I had to put it in a binder. Children of the Void also started coming apart, The Gods and Magic book and even the Core Rule book as well.
Also I noticed in the Advanced Players Guide the spell section is a little screwy. It goes from 219 to like 235 then the other pages are mixed in with the remainder of the spell section.

Anyone else having this weird problem?

So I've been Dming a party and we had finished City of Golden Death, and after reading Varnhold vanishing I though it was way cool sounding. I wanted to know if it was possible to slip my party into this adventure path without messing up the feel of the adventure.
Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

I think this adventure is pretty cool.

You know I'm not entirely sure why this adventure gets so much flack. I'm DM'ing this at the moment and it's the first time I've DM'ed and we are in the last chapter of Armageddon Echo and it's going pretty well.

I think the thing that bothers me is everyone's opinion that about the so called ungrateful nation, they are in political unrest Moderates vs the extremists. Also it's part of the hubris of it that there are those in denial that something big an bad is going to happen. Hell find some info on the Azlant empire in the Pathfinder history they did the same thing and got wiped out.

The big thing is the PC's originally think the plot only involves Riddleport and then it turns in to it involving the whole world. It's supposed to be about wonder and exploring new places then turning into urgency to stop a wide reaching evil plot. Becoming a possible do or die situation.