Sensitive ground you are all treading here. I'll add my 2 cents:
IMO those that tell others they shouldn't do the things they do because they are the "work of the devil" act on behalf of the devil themselves. The devil has always been THE cheap excuse of the ignorant to condemn the things they don't understand (being a LOT) or force those of good faith into certain situations.
Seems some people don't take ANY lessons from history (meaning your therapist, not you ;-)
For those that follow the daily news: in Belgium the CHURCH are finally being accounted for the devilish things they did and covered up for centuries... or how those that side with the "angels" turned out to be doing the "devil's work" themselves.
To get totally back on topic: your therapist should get FIRED for stepping out of line like that. People simply can't mix religion with professional situations like that. It's totally NOT DONE.
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I see a therapist for bipolar disorder and also am part of a assemblies of god church. I had a visit with my therapist today. Well I decided since I had quite a bit of a wait before my appointment to read my Pathfinder core rulebook in the waiting room since I wanted to refresh myself on the rules. Well my therapist ask if he could look at the book and I said sure he then went on to tell me that being a christian man that I shouldn't play games like pathfinder that they promote the work of the devil. I later after the appointment was thinking about this when I got a phone call from the pastor of the church I go to about something there putting on anyway I asked the Pastor about his thoughts on D&D and he said he had no comments on that subject. So I guess I'm wondering whats so bad about the game that makes these men say I shouldn't play it?
Huitzilpochtli,Apollo,Heimdallr and I were having a discussion...
They seem to think that your Religion, not your game choice is the problem. There, I said it... No X-tion bashing, per se, but...Sigh.Will this Judgmental crap never end?
For a religion of 'Thou Shalt Not Judge' and similar Edicts, the humans that profess to practice the Faith sure can be a bunch of hypocrites.
Live your life for you, determine what you think is wrong or right.
You seem on the money in feeling that Pathfinder no more promotes Devil Worship than it does building siege engines to attack neighboring castles or picking locks and stealing treasures.
When all is said and done, your therapist is a human (And one woefully and unprofessionally prejudiced on the subject, as several have mentioned).
-Uriel
while i agree he should switch therapists ASAP my reasons are completely different than everyone elses. Most seem to think the therapist overstepped his bounds (and i agree) but that is not reason enough to switch therapists. what IS reason to switch is that his therapist has no understanding of RPG's and that playing a role playig game could very well aggravate his condition and his therapist does not have the knowlege to even discuss it with Mageye cause he has no understanding of pathfinder. while pathfinder conflicting with his religion is a serious matter i don't think it's NEARLY as serious as what pathfinder could do to his condition. Do people people actually think Mageye should play pathfinder when being Bipoler is a mental disorder? and his mental condition could be as bad as him actually having problems WITH REALITY or bouts of depression to point of suicide!? thats why i think his condition should come first and foremost cause pathfinder actually could put his life at risk!!! He needs a therapist who can give him advice on wether pathfinder is even safe for him to play or how it could effect his condition.
You do indeed raise a very good point, and I agree with you. It's also why my question to Mageye was about his therapist - if Mageye is seeing a volunteer counsellor, his condition is likely not a major issue with reality. If he is seeing a professional psychotherapist then he may have serious problems, and a psychotherapist that unprofessional is not going to be able to help him.
That said, you never can tell - I had a long conversation earlier this week with a former medical professional lady who's family doctor was Harold Shipman ... and she said before the trial verdict she would have sworn under oath that he was a great doctor and a very caring man.
*Diplomacy dike failing...* (stupid profanity filters making me spell entirely innocent words wrong.)
We call all speculate about what might have been said at this session lazarX. I for one will speculate that the cutlery got up and sang and danced, while the clock did racist stand up routine. But it doesn't really get us anywhere does it.
Look it is possible that the therapist was worried of the grounds that he believed the game was aggravating the OPs condition, but we have no reason to thing that he did.
And even if that where the case, then the therapist should have made a therapeutic argument, based to some degree on evidence. But he did not. He said
'This game is the work of the evil twin of my magic sky daddy, and because I believe it is wroung(entirely without evidence i might add), I will use time during which I am in a position of trust and authority, and mean to be helping you with issues relating to your mental illness, to pressure you to stop doing something which you enjoy, without any real understanding of the social network and psychological well being i might be disrupting by guilt tripping you in this way.'
Or atleast words to that effect.
I work in sheltered housing, for what we term vulnerable elders. If I where to behave in a manner even close to as unprofessionally as this therapist appears to have done, I would loose my job, and rightly so. It is not the place of a medical professional to use his position of trust and authority to promote their religion beliefs to those they are careing for. Especially not, if they are getting paid for by the state.
Well my therapist ask if he could look at the book and I said sure he then went on to tell me that being a christian man that I shouldn't play games like pathfinder that they promote the work of the devil
Wow. Is he some kind of faith healing therapist? Does he attribute your problems to demons that possess you and tell you you'll get better with fasting and prayer or something?
This raises some serious red flags with me. I have no problem with religious people per se, as long as they keep their religion to themselves or at least don't let it affect their work. And we're not talking "sorry, I can't give you that report in five minutes because I have to speak a small prayer" here, I speak of someone who treats people with psychological problems and having one of those ridiculous opinions about stuff like RPGs.
As for your original question: I'm by no means a religious man, you won't find me do stuff like not eat something at a certain time because some guy in a funny hat says that book he has tells me not to because it's not nice, but I do like the teachings of Jesus and the values he represents, things like tolerance and forgiveness.
Anyway, I see no problem with being Christian and still playing RPGs. Regardless of what some madmen and -women want to tell us about steam tunnels and Dark Dungeons, this game is make-belief and escapism. Even though many immerse themselves deeply into the game world and come to identify with the characters they play, they're still just make-belief characters in a make-belief world. They are not us.
At least, they don't have to be - I'm not saying there aren't people who will blur the lines between reality or fantasy, but people like that have other problems and the game is only a tool for them.
As such, you can play a Paladin of Iomedae, a Death Priest of Myrkul, an Atheist Fighter, or Polytheistic Elven Bladesinger, without ever going against "You shall have no other gods before me!" because you are still Christian, only your character isn't.
Playing a fantasy game with numerous divine or pseudo-divine beings and characters that worship them does not equal "praying to false idols".
That should be the only concern a thinking Christian should have.
Of course, those who preach that D&D and Harry Potter being works of the devil usually aren't on first-name basis with reality. Whether it is misguided religious zeal and fanaticism or mental problems brought on by personal loss, they come to some very interesting conclusions about fantasy: That the spells in the games and novels are real and that you can really summon demons or control the minds of others.
And I don't know how well you know the rules, but I know them quite well, and I have yet to find any real spells there. Because there is nothing there.
For further reading about "real" magic in D&D and Harry Potter, I suggest THIS
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Anyway, if you want to ponder something, it's not whether you should play a game as Christian. It's whether you shouldn't find a new therapist.
For a religion of 'Thou Shalt Not Judge' and similar Edicts, the humans that profess to practice the Faith sure can be a bunch of hypocrites.
Actually, more in context it is...
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
So if I judge someone that cheats on their wife as a douche-bag, I will be judged by that standard. Which I have no problem with, because I don't cheat on my wife. There is no hypocrisy there. It is when I judge someone who plays an RPG as sinning and then I go and do it myself, that I am in trouble.
I seriously doubt that passage is meant that followers are never to make any moral judgments of the actions of others, ever. I feel perfectly find being a Christian and condemning the behavior of some guy that gets drunk and beats their wife and kids.
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For a religion of 'Thou Shalt Not Judge' and similar Edicts, the humans that profess to practice the Faith sure can be a bunch of hypocrites.Actually, more in context it is...
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.So if I judge someone that cheats on their wife as a douche-bag, I will be judged by that standard. Which I have no problem with, because I don't cheat on my wife. There is no hypocrisy there. It is when I judge someone who plays an RPG as sinning and then I go and do it myself, that I am in trouble.
I seriously doubt that passage is meant that followers are never to make any moral judgments of the actions of others, ever. I feel perfectly find being a Christian and condemning the behavior of some guy that gets drunk and beats their wife and kids.
Which means the rent-boy guy is doubly screwed.
Actually, more in context it is...1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.So if I judge someone that cheats on their wife as a douche-bag, I will be judged by that standard. Which I have no problem with, because I don't cheat on my wife. There is no hypocrisy there. It is when I judge someone who plays an RPG as sinning and then I go and do it myself, that I am in trouble.
I don't think that's what it means either. From King James, Luke 6:37
"Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven."Basically, with the forgive/forgiven context, I think it's saying don't be judgmental and don't bandy about condemnations because your ability to be forgiven and avoid what you've sown is based on your ability to forgive.
I don't think it's saying judge others by the standard you wished to be judged by. That's more of a corollary to the golden rule. Here, I think the sermon is advice about attitude and forgiveness, not consistency of judgment.
Of course, I'll talk from my own point of view and make it as short as I can.
I'm christian, but I'm not all into practicing. Actually, I like HeavyMetal and all of its lovely offsprings. And I certainly have sex before marriage, hell yeah.
Now for the more serious part... Faith should only be a way to enhance your personal life and the ones of your surrounding. It is a shelter to seek wisdom in thyself, and find inner peace.
I think that you cannot truly believe in God if you deny the Devil. D&D-Wise, the paladin couldn't be a vanquisher of Evil if he denied the existence of the Nine Hells. And about the "Don't play Pathfinder" thing... it's plain stupid. As a matter of fact, most campaigns put you in the skin of a hero busting evil-smartasses. I mean, by playing D&D you can dream of a better world; but by telling people not to play games, you steal from them a way to express and develop themselves.
Thus, your therapist is a mind-flayer. He thinks himself SO clever, don't get manipulated.
4) Extreme violence in the game. Let's face it, the game is really, really violent. Violent and/or gruesome death for somebody/something is a part of just about every session. Some denominations of Christianity (including the one I am currently a part of, although I myself am not a pacifist) reject violence. For the violence alone the game is PG-rated, in my opinion, and probably not appropriate for young children. Again, however, this is fantasy, and professional opinions vary as to whether excessive violence in games or roleplaying has any effect on real life behavior.I was under the impression all versions of Christianity (the organised faiths, not just a guy in robes wandering around communes with their "faithful") reject violence? I must be mistaken, did Jesus Christ not reject violence as well?
Normal, sane people reject violence. It has nothing to do with religion. Not everyone in this world needs a deity to remind them to behave and act nicely with the other humans.
I reject violence and I am not religious. I belong to no faith and I certainly do not waste my time stating that I am an Athiest because it might be the flavour of the moment. However, I am perfectly capable of making rational decisions and seeking non-violent resolutions to a situation.
My morality was taught and refined in a secular home. My parents were secular, good people. They had no problem with me roleplaying, though my father made sure the content was suitable before I played.
Please do not get me wrong, I am not opposed to religion (or may be I am looking through this post again). To each his own. However, statements like yours populate these boards and kind of hold Christianity as the only way to live a respectable life. The majority of roleplayers are nice, stable people who do not require religion to keep them on track socially.
The therapist in this case is acting unethically and has brought his own stance on an RPG into his practice. Therapy should not be influenced by...
Please forgive me if I offered offense to your beliefs in any way. I offered the input I did to the OP because the OP clearly indicated that he was a Christian, and I thought it might be useful to him to hear the opinions of another Christian. I neither said nor meant to imply that "good values" like non-violence are limited to Christians. Clearly there are many, many good people who do not share my faith. Christianity, at its core, isn't about being "good", it's about faith.
On the theological point, it is debatable how Christ felt about violence in general, as that was not a major point in his preaching. While he forbade his disciples from using violence to defend him, and rebuked Peter for attacking one of the Roman soldiers with a sword, he also demonstrated righteous anger and violence in driving the moneylenders from the temple.
Looking at the entire Bible, rather than just the New Testament, it becomes even more complicated, as the Old Testament is full of war and violence, and it is pretty apparent that God has used even war to fulfill his design. "Thou shalt not kill" is one of the Commandments, but the rest of the Old Testament clearly contains lots of killing, much of it by people clearly doing God's will, and the law endorses capital punishment for some offenses. Some scholars believe that commandment would be better translated or understood as "Thou shalt not murder".
So, in the end, while there are some Christian denominations that reject violence and war in favor of pacifism, I would say the majority are not so categoric, and have more nuanced positions that acknowledge the rare and occasional necessity to use violence to defend oneself, or to enforce order in society, or to defend an entire country.
Do people people actually think Mageye should play pathfinder when being Bipoler is a mental disorder? and his mental condition could be as bad as him actually having problems WITH REALITY or bouts of depression to point of suicide!? thats why i think his condition should come first and foremost cause pathfinder actually could put his life at risk!!! He needs a therapist who can give him advice on wether pathfinder is even safe for him to play or how it could effect his condition.
Bipolar disorder does not affect one's grasp of reality. Playing games should no effect on his disorder but that is something I am not qualified to speak to since I am not a mental health professional. I am someone with a serious mental disorder (PTSD) and I have found that doing something I enjoy that isn't harmful (like roleplaying games) actually helps me deal with things when my disorder is in overdrive.
I see a psychiatrist often and for many years I saw a psychiatrist and a psychologist at least twice a month each. When they both found out I played RPGs, they asked me what I enjoyed about the games and that was it. The entire conversation lasted maybe 10 minutes with each of them. Both of those professionals had been practicing for more than 30 years each at the time. I still see one of them (the other has since retired due to Parkinson's). She has not brought it up at all since then. At one point I was hospitalized and my girlfriend brought me the newly released Book of Vile Darkness. Not a single therapist there thought it was a problem and this was a gaming book that directly dealt evil.
RPGs should have no effect on bipolar disorder. Bipolar disorder does not change one's grasp of reality. Schizophrenia could be an issue but Mageye doesn't have schizophrenia.
I was under the impression all versions of Christianity (the organised faiths, not just a guy in robes wandering around communes with their "faithful") reject violence? I must be mistaken, did Jesus Christ not reject violence as well?
Simply put, no, not all christian sects, not all christians have moved beyond violence. For just one recent example of christian oppression in the US. Here
You guys should read the old testament a little more closely. It has war and violence, sure.... but so does todays society. The Bible reflects all life, not just happy thoughts. It's real and at times, gritty.
What do you want? happy stories all the time? That would be like talking about America without discussing any of our wars, conflicts, or attrocities ie slavery and native american slaughter.
I am a very devout Christian and there is no wrong with Pathfinder... unless you actually start trying to summon demons/devils... or if it interferes with family life and makes you abusive to your children/wife.
I doubt that happens very often and not with Sane people. Though, I once new a guy who played Vampire the Masquerade and started having dreams of killing his wife.... sooo..... yeah, you decide your own level, because some people have problems with reality.
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I cannot say anything regarding your therapist's actions, as I do not know your case, but I am a Christian and I play Pathfinder and many other RPGs.
As to whether or not RPGs work against Christian values think about it, most (with some exceptions) are about the players defeating evil and protecting the innocent while promoting the cause of good. That doesn't sound too bad does it? Like many other fictional works part of the allure of Pathfinder is showing a world where good and evil are obvious and clear cut, a welcome break from the moral dilemas and questions of the real world.
HANG ON PEOPLE!!!!!!
We do not have the whole story of the OPs disorder. Yes, on the surface it seems like the therapist overstepped their professional boundary. BUT there is NOT ENOUGH INFORMATION here to recommend that the OP walk away from the therapist.
How many of you are professional therapists that you can make this call without a thorough investigation of the OPs status? You are treading on VERY DANGEROUS ground by making those suggestions.
To the OP: TALK TO YOUR THERAPIST! Find out if there is a SOLID reason based on your individual case of bi-polar disorder that you should not play. If your individual case merits putting Pathfinder on the shelf for the time being then you should do so.
Again, TALK TO YOUR THERAPIST, and your Pastor! They are the people you should be listening to!
This isn't about whether he's Poloar or Bi-Polar.
His therapist told him that Pathfinder "Promoted the works of the Devil".
No matter what, that is unprofessional, possibly a violation of his liscence, amd definitely unethical and dangerous.
If he'd said soemthing like "You really should avoid games that let you play in an imaginary world because your diorder might not allow you to function properly." That would be acceptable.
But to actually LIE and say that PF promotes the work of the devil is wrong.
You shold still stay in therapy, but I would find a new therapist. And I'd report this one.
Therapists like this are dangerous, because people trust them to know what they are talking about and when they make biased, uninformed, and false statements like this, it can influence or damage the psyche of the patients...
You don't have to be a therapist to see that.
I thought hypocrisy was the world's most widely practiced religion, given that hypocrites make a majority of those calling or claiming themselves to be one thing or another........
Maybe it makes more sense to just say oppression or just say terrorist rather than assigning the individual to a specific group...
I mean if Hitler would have called himself a jew, people would have said no you are not! (yes I brought Hitler to the thread, bound to happen after so many posts)!
As it stands now you get the pleasure of being lumped in with the worst possible example of an individual that "says" they are the same thing you are....Instead I would say no that individual is not!
ZN...thanks for the link
Interesting. On the subject of hypocrisy, the most profound thing any of my college professors ever said to me was on that subject.
After being accused of hypocrisy by one of his students, he responded that he was proud to be a hypocrite, and that all the best people he knew were hypocrites. A hypocrite is someone who has ideals that they fail to live up to, which is something most of us do, not being perfect. The only people who aren't hypocrites are those who have no ideals at all. Set the bar low enough and you never have to fail.
Note that this is not meant to say or imply that non-Christians and/or non-religious people do not have their own ideals. Many, perhaps most of them do, and are superb human beings (and hypocrites) in their own right.
I meant more.....
–noun
1. a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, esp. a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.
2. a person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved attitude, esp. one whose private life, opinions, or statements belie his or her public statements.
My point would be that you are making a statement as if you know the unknowable, that the person is "pretending" or "feigning", because their actions do not match their professed beliefs. That may well be true, but you can't know it for sure. Detect Lie and Detect Evil don't exist in real life.
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I got a second opinion from the pastor of the church I used to go to and he said that for someone that doesn't have a knowledge of the game that he would say he would treat it as any other thing that takes our time away from god and say that we must have a balance of how we use up our 24 hours each day and that if the game becomes the center of who we are then maybe it is a bad thing for us. "To much of a good thing can become a bad thing" So I will continue to play the game but I will not let the game play me to the point that it controls my life. Also I made a phone call to my therapist and discussed his statement with him and he said the reason he mad such statements he had heard bad things about the game I asked him have you ever seen the game played he said no I asked him how he can judge something when he has no knowledge of the thing he is against and he said I'm right his statement was wrong and that he felt that he let his religious up bringing as a catholic get in the way of treating me. I will be seeing him on the 14th again and possibly will be switching to another therapist.
Right on, man.
I'm glad to hear your pastor ended up being that wise. I made some bad assumptions about both him and your therapist and though it seems I was half right about the therapist, in the end he admitted his mistake so that's a plus.
I got a second opinion from the pastor of the church I used to go to and he said that for someone that doesn't have a knowledge of the game that he would say he would treat it as any other thing that takes our time away from god and say that we must have a balance of how we use up our 24 hours each day and that if the game becomes the center of who we are then maybe it is a bad thing for us. "To much of a good thing can become a bad thing" So I will continue to play the game but I will not let the game play me to the point that it controls my life. Also I made a phone call to my therapist and discussed his statement with him and he said the reason he mad such statements he had heard bad things about the game I asked him have you ever seen the game played he said no I asked him how he can judge something when he has no knowledge of the thing he is against and he said I'm right his statement was wrong and that he felt that he let his religious up bringing as a catholic get in the way of treating me. I will be seeing him on the 14th again and possibly will be switching to another therapist.
While I am not christian I do like what your pastor said. Gaming should be a fun and enjoyable hobby, not the central factor of your life. I myself stopped gaming completely at one point because I realized that it had become too big a factor in my life, I needed space and time to put things in perspective and make it a healthy part of my life.
To address a few things said by others on the board. I have had many friends who were bi-polar and gamers. They never had problems with their bipolar due to gaming. One of them is also schizophrenic and gaming has helped her, not harmed her. Gaming is NOT a danger to those who are bipolar.
You do need a lisence to practice therapy in the US. The requirements vary by state but always include a certain level of education, a certain number of hours of supervised experience and adherence to a code of ethics. All relevant codes of ethics include sections about being non-judgemental and unbiased. This does not mean religion cannot play a role in the treatment. What it means is that the therapist cannot deny someone treatment because of their religion or use the therapy as a place to influence the clients religious views. The therapists actions as presented by Mageye are unethical and inappropriate.
Just to throw a wrench in the works:
This message board isn't going to be the best place to get a good answer. Everyone who reads & writes to the Paizo boards is going to be pro-Pathfinder. You have a faith-based question, not a Pathfiner-based question. You need to find a mature member of your faith and sit down and discuss the faith issue with him.
As a fairly hard-line conversative Christian, do I believe Pathfinder is inherently evil? No, not usually. But my opinion doesn't matter. Seek the will of God. Pray about it with open eyes, earnestly listening to what the Holy Spirit wants to say to you.
I believe the Devil can and will use anything to gain a foothold in someone's life. Drinking alcohol is not a sin: yet Satan uses it to make some people alcoholics. Listening to rock-and-roll is not a sin: yet Satan uses it to turn some people away from the Lord. Does that mean that all of us should flee from these things? Not nessecarily, but we must indulge with caution and prayer. And sometimes, our prayer reveals to us that we do need to flee.
If Pathfinder or roleplaying games is a stumbling block before you: then you may need to take a break for this season of your life. Then, once you recalibrate, you can return to it in strength.
Here's my litmus test: which is more important to you: playing RPGs, or worshipping Jesus Christ? And if you *had* to choose between the two of them, which would win?
If you would choose RPGs over your faith, then you are guilty of idolitry and in sin, and you need to repent of that. I say this not to condemn you, for the cross has already borne that sin of idolitry for you, making you innocent, you need only repent before the Lord. I would recommend a taking a season away from the game to seek the face of the Lord, not as "penance", but merely as a way to draw closer in love to Christ who sustains us (and frankly, who doesn't need more sustaining?). However, if you can say with a clear conscience that you would give up RPGs for your faith, then you are fine.
In 1 Cor, we come to 10:23-24, where Paul writes:
" 'Everything is permissible" — but not everything is beneficial. 'Everything is permissible' — but not everything is constructive. Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others."
Seek first the will of the Lord. It is very possible that you need to take a break from RPGs so as to not give the Devil a foothold. The ancient serpent is far wiser and smarter than you: don't trick yourself into thinking you can outwit him without the empowering of the Holy Spirit. It is also very possible that playing RPGs will not lead you from the Lord, and that you may continue as you were.
But again, don't listen to me, or anyone on the boards for that matter. Talk to a Christian brother you know in real life and implicitly trust, and follow him.
A lot of wise counsel to anyone...
Well put, brother. +1!
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I got a second opinion from the pastor of the church..."Too much of a good thing can become a bad thing".
Also I made a phone call to my therapist and discussed his statement with him and he said the reason he mad such statements he had heard bad things about the game...and he said..his statement was wrong and that he felt that he let his religious up bringing as a catholic get in the way of treating me...
It's good you brought this up, and I'm glad the therapist was willing to reexamine his words and evaluate himself honestly. I'd love to see what he thinks going to a game in progress sometime!
I think it's good to stop and reevaluate how we spend out time every once in a while. It's easy to get stuck in a dangerous rut with any activity. It's easy to take things a step too far, and if you don't stop and evaluate yourself and your actions occasionally, it's easy to miss that you've crossed that line. So while I think it's too bad you had to deal with a snap judgement from you therapist, I hope it was valueable for you to spend the time to look at your time spent in the hobby and evaluate whether or not your current level of involvement is a good or bad thing in your life.
I wish you all the best!
I got a second opinion from the pastor of the church I used to go to and he said that for someone that doesn't have a knowledge of the game that he would say he would treat it as any other thing that takes our time away from god and say that we must have a balance of how we use up our 24 hours each day and that if the game becomes the center of who we are then maybe it is a bad thing for us. "To much of a good thing can become a bad thing" So I will continue to play the game but I will not let the game play me to the point that it controls my life. Also I made a phone call to my therapist and discussed his statement with him and he said the reason he mad such statements he had heard bad things about the game I asked him have you ever seen the game played he said no I asked him how he can judge something when he has no knowledge of the thing he is against and he said I'm right his statement was wrong and that he felt that he let his religious up bringing as a catholic get in the way of treating me. I will be seeing him on the 14th again and possibly will be switching to another therapist.
I think your former pastor gave you some very good advice. No hobby should take away from the things that are important in your life, be they faith, family, friends etc. It is a shame he is a former pastor, as it seems to me he gave a very solid rational answer despite a lack of knowledge on the direct subject.
I got a second opinion from the pastor of the church I used to go to and he said that for someone that doesn't have a knowledge of the game that he would say he would treat it as any other thing that takes our time away from god and say that we must have a balance of how we use up our 24 hours each day and that if the game becomes the center of who we are then maybe it is a bad thing for us. "To much of a good thing can become a bad thing" So I will continue to play the game but I will not let the game play me to the point that it controls my life.
All things in moderation
..
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even moderation. =D
Also I made a phone call to my therapist and discussed his statement with him and he said the reason he mad such statements he had heard bad things about the game I asked him have you ever seen the game played he said no I asked him how he can judge something when he has no knowledge of the thing he is against and he said I'm right his statement was wrong and that he felt that he let his religious up bringing as a catholic get in the way of treating me. I will be seeing him on the 14th again and possibly will be switching to another therapist.
It is good to see he is able to step out of himself and see the flaw he made, and he definitely has benefited from your help in that, good for you and him. As for finding a new therapist, that is certainly something to consider. I would suggest you think about your relationship with this person. Have you known this person for a while and had no other reason to question his judgement prior to this point? If so, I would say that one situation should not ruin your relationship and I wouldn't be so quick to jump ship on something that has proven up to this point to be a good thing.
If on the other hand, you haven't known this person long and this issue jumped up pretty quick it might indicate that this person jumps to conclusions too quickly. Or if you have known them for a while and they occasional say things that later make you scratch your head and wonder, "WTF?" In those cases, switch now might be a good idea.
Personally, I just hate the idea of tossing someone who has helped me to the curb at the first sign of a human flaw. We all make mistakes, we all rush to judgement, we are all human, and have flaws. I would hope someone would not hold me up to being perfect and when I fail, which I will, turns their backs on me.
"We've been conditioned to not make mistakes, but I can't live that way"
-Natasha Bedingfield (Unwritten)
Some indicators for finding hypocrites
Judgemental
Self-rightous
Indignant
Angry
Militant
Intolerant
Liar
Elitist
...feel free to add......
Good list, if what you are saying is indicators rather any one (or even all of them) being determinative.
Regarding Intolerent, here is a head-scratcher for you. Does being tolerant mean that you must tolerate intolerance? To rephrase it, must a tolerant society permit intolerance?
This line of thought came to me years ago as I heard many people who would consider themselves amongst the most tolerant and open-minded in the country saying very nasty and intolerant sounding things about people whose own personal or religious beliefs were not sufficiently tolerant for them.
I got a second opinion from the pastor of the church I used to go to and he said that for someone that doesn't have a knowledge of the game that he would say he would treat it as any other thing that takes our time away from god and say that we must have a balance of how we use up our 24 hours each day and that if the game becomes the center of who we are then maybe it is a bad thing for us. "To much of a good thing can become a bad thing" So I will continue to play the game but I will not let the game play me to the point that it controls my life. Also I made a phone call to my therapist and discussed his statement with him and he said the reason he mad such statements he had heard bad things about the game I asked him have you ever seen the game played he said no I asked him how he can judge something when he has no knowledge of the thing he is against and he said I'm right his statement was wrong and that he felt that he let his religious up bringing as a catholic get in the way of treating me. I will be seeing him on the 14th again and possibly will be switching to another therapist.
That pastor's advice sounds quite a bit more evenhanded.
RPG-trashing aside, I would drop this therapist immediately, because what sort of counselor is giving advice on things HE DOESN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT, BASED ON HEARSAY? Scary stuff..........
Condensed Libertarian view of social issues: You are free to live your life so long as you let others live their lives.
So if you want to believe that Big Kahuna burgers are the tool of the devil go right ahead. However, if you block my access to obtain Big Kahuna burgers, or if you attempt to injure me or persecute me because I eat Big Kahuna burgers, "I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers." Because this IS a tasty burger!
/Pulp Fiction
Condensed Libertarian view of social issues: You are free to live your life so long as you let others live their lives.
So if you want to believe that Big Kahuna burgers are the tool of the devil go right ahead. However, if you block my access to obtain Big Kahuna burgers, or if you attempt to injure me or persecute me because I eat Big Kahuna burgers, "I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers." Because this IS a tasty burger!
/Pulp Fiction
Brett: No, no, I just want you to know... I just want you to know how sorry we are that things got so f&%!ed up with us and Mr. Wallace. We got into this thing with the best intentions and I never...
Jules: [Jules shoots the man on the couch] I'm sorry, did I break your concentration? I didn't mean to do that. Please, continue, you were saying something about best intentions. What's the matter? Oh, you were finished! Well, allow me to retort. What does Marsellus Wallace look like?Brett: What?
Jules: What country are you from?
Brett: What? What? Wh - ?
Jules: "What" ain't no country I've ever heard of. They speak English in What?
Brett: What?
Jules: English, m%%*+%!%$@*%, do you speak it?
Brett: Yes! Yes!
Jules: Then you know what I'm sayin'!
Brett: Yes!
Jules: Describe what Marsellus Wallace looks like!
Brett: What?
Jules: Say 'what' again. Say 'what' again, I dare you, I double dare you m%*%~+@$*+~@, say what one more G%#%*~n time!
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Some indicators for finding hypocrites
Judgemental
Self-rightous
Indignant
Angry
Militant
Intolerant
Liar
Elitist
...feel free to add......
Good list, if what you are saying is indicators rather any one (or even all of them) being determinative.
Regarding Intolerent, here is a head-scratcher for you. Does being tolerant mean that you must tolerate intolerance? To rephrase it, must a tolerant society permit intolerance?
This line of thought came to me years ago as I heard many people who would consider themselves amongst the most tolerant and open-minded in the country saying very nasty and intolerant sounding things about people whose own personal or religious beliefs were not sufficiently tolerant for them.
I tend to re-word the "intolerant of intolerance" question as "Am I a bigot if I hate bigots?" The answer to the latter is a resounding no. Bigotry, intolerance, etc. has no place in any civilized society, and hating bigotry or intolerance is not truly indicative of bigotry or intolerance, but rather of a civilized and mature upbringing.
|
|
Brett: No, no, I just want you to know... I just want you to know how sorry we are that things got so f!~&ed up with us and Mr. Wallace. We got into this thing with the best intentions and I never...
Jules: [Jules shoots the man on the couch] I'm sorry, did I break your concentration? I didn't mean to do that. Please, continue, you were saying something about best intentions. What's the matter? Oh, you were finished! Well, allow me to retort. What does Marsellus Wallace look like?
Brett: What?
Jules: What country are you from?
Brett: What? What? Wh - ?
Jules: "What" ain't no country I've ever heard of. They speak English in What?
Brett: What?
Jules: English, motherf!~&er, do you speak it?
Brett: Yes! Yes!
Jules: Then you know what I'm sayin'!
Brett: Yes!
Jules: Describe what Marsellus Wallace looks like!
Brett: What?
Jules: Say 'what' again. Say 'what' again, I dare you, I double dare you motherf!~&er, say what one more G++%$*n time!
Best scene of the movie...hell one of the best scenes of alot of movies.
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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People hopping onto this thread to stir the pot had best look elsewhere. It only takes a mouse click for me to shut this puppy down, and since the concerns of the OP appear to have been addressed, I urge everyone to behave themselves and not turn this into any kind of flame war.
The fires of an Admin burn hottest of all. :)
People hopping onto this thread to stir the pot had best look elsewhere. It only takes a mouse click for me to shut this puppy down, and since the concerns of the OP appear to have been addressed, I urge everyone to behave themselves and not turn this into any kind of flame war.
The fires of an Admin burn hottest of all. :)
At the request of the myself aka the OP I actually didn't mean to start this flame war and would like this thread closed to the fact that my issue has been resolved.
Signed
Mageye
I got a second opinion from the pastor of the church I used to go to and he said that for someone that doesn't have a knowledge of the game that he would say he would treat it as any other thing that takes our time away from god and say that we must have a balance of how we use up our 24 hours each day and that if the game becomes the center of who we are then maybe it is a bad thing for us. "To much of a good thing can become a bad thing" So I will continue to play the game but I will not let the game play me to the point that it controls my life. Also I made a phone call to my therapist and discussed his statement with him and he said the reason he mad such statements he had heard bad things about the game I asked him have you ever seen the game played he said no I asked him how he can judge something when he has no knowledge of the thing he is against and he said I'm right his statement was wrong and that he felt that he let his religious up bringing as a catholic get in the way of treating me. I will be seeing him on the 14th again and possibly will be switching to another therapist.
This is good, at least he understands that he went over the line, and your former pastor gave you some good advice. If you feel this therapist is helping you and you are comfortable with him, my advice would be to keep seeing him - everyone makes mistakes, and he knows he made one and will do better next time, perhaps. Important thing is, that's your decision, and no-one else's.
Mageye,
May God go with you. In the best and worst time, the happiest and the saddest, in your highs and lows, may you always know his loving presence. And may he constantly surround you with people that care for you. May they be gamers that can help you through the paths of your life. May you enjoy your life and may God work through the game to help you in your life.
In His name.
Mageye,
May God go with you. In the best and worst time, the happiest and the saddest, in your highs and lows, may you always know his loving presence. And may he constantly surround you with people that care for you. May they be gamers that can help you through the paths of your life. May you enjoy your life and may God work through the game to help you in your life.
In His name.
Thanks and I am sure he has. Had a few kids in my group talk to me about when I use to volunteer in the youth group why I don't anymore and the only explanation I could give them was god called me to other things (Nursing) and my work hours conflicted with youth group but I am looking at getting involved with another youth group here in the future since my physical health has made me unable to lift patients anymore I had cancer twice when I was younger and the side effects of the chemo on my bones finally caught up with me making me unable to lift over 50lbs without personal injury.
I see a therapist for bipolar disorder and also am part of a assemblies of god church. I had a visit with my therapist today. Well I decided since I had quite a bit of a wait before my appointment to read my Pathfinder core rulebook in the waiting room since I wanted to refresh myself on the rules. Well my therapist ask if he could look at the book and I said sure he then went on to tell me that being a christian man that I shouldn't play games like pathfinder that they promote the work of the devil. I later after the appointment was thinking about this when I got a phone call from the pastor of the church I go to about something there putting on anyway I asked the Pastor about his thoughts on D&D and he said he had no comments on that subject. So I guess I'm wondering whats so bad about the game that makes these men say I shouldn't play it?
Not reading through all those posts..
But in my experience. Most viewpoints of D&D as being a Devil game, is based on very extreme stories.
Mostly the infamous one(s) involving LSD.
Using that logic. We should Never... Ever.. ever..
Ever.
EVER! Do not even think about.. Ever.
Using a knife. Because man... Thats a devil's utensil.