various said: "Ann Coulter said something reasonable"
Oooo, Feel the fear! Feel the hate! Read her columns, sarcasm is just another of ther reasons to adore her.
You confuse sarcasm with vitriol.
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You confuse sarcasm with vitriol.various said: "Ann Coulter said something reasonable"
Oooo, Feel the fear! Feel the hate! Read her columns, sarcasm is just another of ther reasons to adore her.
This is actually Twilight Zone Special Xmas episode, since not only are people implying that AC makes sense, but also they make me agree with Cartigan.
Can somebody check the temperature in hell, because it's surely freezing over ?
Brb. I have to board the aliens' spaceship and fly to a cornfield on another planet called Earth and get attacked by giant people.
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There's been some good and not so good advice in this thread, in my opinion. I felt like I should leave my two cents worth.
As a devout Christian myself (and recently called deacon in my church) I find no conflict between my faith and playing Pathfindr/D&D. I don't point to my own faith to claim any type of religious authority in what I say, just to provide context for my response. I will share with you my own views on the subject, in the hope that they might prove useful to you.
As a long-time gamer, I lived through the dark period in the late 70s and early 80s when D&D was a frequent target of certain evangelical Christian preachers. Those same preachers have largely moved on to culturally "hotter" topics like videogames or rap music, but there are still many in the Christian community who remember their rants against D&D. In my opinion much of their objection was based on either misconceptions about the game that they didn't bother to correct, or just a desire to generate some sensationalist publicity for themselves.
All that said, there are some issues that, as a Christian I had to think about with regard to playing the game:
1) The presence of other gods in the game. Chrisitianity is premised on the belief that there is only one God and that salvation is reached through faith. The game involves an entire pantheon of varied "gods" who are active in the world, and some characters have "faith" in these "gods" as a major part of their identity. I struggled with this a bit, and created some monotheistic game worlds that had big G God in them, but found that to be worse. In my mind it was better to just acknowledge that this is all just a fantasy game that has absolutely nothing to do with reality, and as such has no conflict with beliefs in the real world.
2) Magic. The Bible has some pretty clear and unequivocal condemnations of magic and those who practice it. Again, my logic is that this is all make-believe. The magic portrayed in the game has nothing to do with any magic that may...
+1 very well said.
i would add that it is also those who you game with. rpgs attract those of all faiths, and if you are part of a group that has issuses with CHRIST, than it will constantly come out. over time you may slide more to there thinking, if you tend towards passivity.
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HANG ON PEOPLE!!!!!!
We do not have the whole story of the OPs disorder. Yes, on the surface it seems like the therapist overstepped their professional boundary. BUT there is NOT ENOUGH INFORMATION here to recommend that the OP walk away from the therapist.
How many of you are professional therapists that you can make this call without a thorough investigation of the OPs status? You are treading on VERY DANGEROUS ground by making those suggestions.
To the OP: TALK TO YOUR THERAPIST! Find out if there is a SOLID reason based on your individual case of bi-polar disorder that you should not play. If your individual case merits putting Pathfinder on the shelf for the time being then you should do so.
Again, TALK TO YOUR THERAPIST, and your Pastor! They are the people you should be listening to!
Actually, given that according to the OP the Therapist in question commented about the game, and whether the OP should be playing it, specifically on RELIGIOUS grounds, the therapist has crossed professional boundaries that should not be crossed and a case could be made for his censure by the local medical board. I am neither a lawyer nor a member of the medical profession and this is just my personal understanding of the law/regulations that are relevant. I would hedge my statement by saying that the OP should seek a different therapists opinion on this, one who is specifically not associated with his current therapist.
Graywulfe
Those longhair freaky people. ;) Gomme wanting to listen to Signs now.When it comes to playing RPGs I ask myself, "What would Jesus do?"
And then I realize, he'd make every save.
Once again you have left me beside myself in shock and humble awe.
I turn to myself and go "did you see what that long haired freak wrote this time?" and respond with "hey my hair was that long once, that is when we had hair." and finish with an, "oh yeah."
Tesla is always a good listen. :)
Guys folks are not telling him not to go to Therapy, they are telling him it seems like his Therapist has stepped over the line and he should find a new one.
I do agree, I think the man crossed a line. From what we have been told it seems he was pushing his own views upon the OP. And at that point th OP I think needs to seek out a new therapist.
My wife teaches at a very conservative Christian school. When time allows, we plan to start a Pathfinder campaign with one of the other teachers at the school. We've often dealt with people who ignorantly believe that RPGs are evil.
Realistically, role-playing games can be a negative influence, just like comic books, popular music, TV shows, books, competitive sports, dancing, movies, and the hundred other things that self-proclaimed experts have ranted about over the years. All these things can also be good influences, stimulating critical thought, inspiring creativity, encouraging friendships and providing hours of fun.
As a boy, I asked my pastor whether D&D was evil. He told me that "God knows that you're just playing a game" and encouraged me to do what is right as I go through life.
1 Corinthians 10:23 tells Christians that everything is permissible, but not everything is beneficial or constructive. Do the things you do lead you to be a better person and Christian? I think that games of heroic fantasy often encourage and motivate their players in positive ways.
Games and activities can also encourage negative thoughts and behavior. You do have to use discretion in what you play and who you game with. Proberbs 13:20 points out that "He who walks with the wise grows wise, but the companion of fools suffers harm."
But at the end of the day, Pathfinder (and all other role playing games) are simply tools, in the same way a hammer is a tool. You can use that hammer to build a hammer or as a weapon to take someone's like.
AWRIGHT NOBODY MOVE! Now, put all of your likes on the floor. ALL OF EM! Nobody tries to be a hero or do anything stupid, you all get a great story to tell your kids back home about! And don't go thinking you'll trace the hammer as soon as I drop it into a trashcan or something- I'm wearing gloves and I built this hammer last night with another hammer! Now move it!
I once hear on a Christian station (used to do a lot of driving, NPR plays classic music from 9 AM-5 PM, tired of same old music stations). They had a guest on and they were talking about whether Christians should be reading Harry Potter, if I remember right. Basically the guest said, the real issue is what is the message in the story. If it is one where evil is basically being glorified, where people that do evil are successful and rewarded, then probably that isn't something good Christians should be filling their head with. If the message is instead, people that try to do the right things, work hard, and act morally are ultimately successful, though with difficulties of course, then those are probably good stories to read during the free time.
Basically, our minds are like the internet. Don't put anything on the internet that you won't be ok with someone finding out about because it may never really disappear, even years down the road. Same with our minds, you should probably try to avoid filling it with things that you really don't want to know or remember about years down the line. Of course it is harder with our brains, because you don't know if it is bad until you experience it and then well it is too late. And things can slip in and out unconsciously.
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You'll find a lot of devout Christians on the messageboards here that play Pathfinder. It sounds like your pastor is fine with it, or at least doesn't want to make a knee jerk reaction about the game. So I'd say keep playing and don't worry about it. But that's just my opinion.
What he says is true. I'm a Christian (Mormon, to be precise) and I've been playing Pathfinder since day one. I played D&D (up through 3.5) for over twenty years (pretty close to thirty) and I've experienced the whole gamut of folks telling me that my hobby is a dark, corruptive influence in my life. My mother is a minister (Methodist) who was so convinced that I've sold my soul by playing that she attempted an intervention where she destroyed my books and modules (lost a lot of 1st Edition classics that day). But I knew this even then: you only get out of the game what you put into it.
Bottom line, keep playing if that's what you want to do.
Actually, given that according to the OP the Therapist in question commented about the game, and whether the OP should be playing it, specifically on RELIGIOUS grounds, the therapist has crossed professional boundaries that should not be crossed and a case could be made for his censure by the local medical board. I am neither a lawyer nor a member of the medical profession and this is just my personal understanding of the law/regulations that are relevant. I would hedge my statement by saying that the OP should seek a different therapists opinion on this, one who is specifically not associated with his current therapist.
+1. I strongly recommend bringing this situation to the attention of whatever professional body for therapists exists in your area.
There should be some body of peers (i.e. a board of therapists) that any other therapist in the area would know about, and should be able to inform you of for free... At the least, you should tell *ONE* other therapist about the incident. If you are seeing a medical doctor, they probably could recommend one. In my eyes, what was described is definitely outside of the bounds of professional practice, since it sounds like the OP never mentioned that D&D/PRPG was at all problematic in any way, or even brought it up besides having the book present.
IF the OP was talking about how they experienced D&D within their life, and it sounded like it was not a healthy hobby (i.e. influencing the rest of their life poorly), then it would be reasonable to provide counseling on those specific areas, presumably focused on ways to make it a more grounded activity that supported the rest of their life, with removing the hobby all together possibly being ONE option. If that wasn`t the case, it sounds like this therapist isn`t even interested in working with and knowing the OP as his own, unique individual person, but instead seeks to impose their own opinions on him (which sound poorly informed vis a vis reality), using the OP as a blank slate or sock puppet of the therapist`s own agenda... which is not a good thing.
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I'd also go so far as to say you might want to find a different sect of christianity if your current one is telling you what games you can and cannot play. It's one thing for a religion to tell you not to kill people, it's a whole 'nother thing entirely for them to tell you that a liesure activity is taking you down the left hand path. That, to me, sounds more like the water boy's mom than a responsible preacher.
Haven't you ever seen "Mazes and Monsters?" You don't want to spend the rest of your days slaying Gorvils and calling yourself Pardeux, do you Mr. Hanks?
Well I guess what I'm try to get at is I don't really want to give up the game I love just because my faith says it's "evil" because I don't see anything "evil" about it.
whatever happened to judge not lest ye be judged? don't Christians follow that? I would if I were Christian.
Personally, if you think that God resides in your life and in your heart, you would trust your instincts and not what a pastor (or pope for the RCs) would say. Of course, that goes agains centuries of dogma and control.
The fact that you are even thinking about this shows me that you are a caring and intropective person. I am sure you will figure this out.
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I'm a christian gamer and I play with 3 other christian gamers. I don't have much problems with D&D/pathfinder. I might like it if the demon/devil worshiping be toned down a little, but that's all.
There were a lot of ''rumors'' about D&D in the eighties. Some people have heard those rumors and without knowing anything about it, taken a statement in the matter.
An example is that D&D was linked with satanism. While this isn't true, some gamers are satanists. There's no way that you can deny that.
Are there pedophiles that play D&D? Probably. Not many, but there are bound to be a few. There's nothing you can do about this unless you can prove it. There's no reason to start a witchhunt just because some pedophile likes to play D&D.
D&D players are not more likely to commit suicide. In fact I've heard quite the opposite. (Though I admit I haven't done any research)
this is an example of one such case.
For my final advice, I want to tell you that you might want to be careful about the selection of your fellow gamers.
I'm a christian gamer and I play with 3 other christian gamers. I don't have much problems with D&D/pathfinder. I might like it if the demon/devil worshiping be toned down a little, but that's all.
There were a lot of ''rumors'' about D&D in the eighties. Some people have heard those rumors and without knowing anything about it, taken a statement in the matter.An example is that D&D was linked with satanism. While this isn't true, some gamers are satanists. There's no way that you can deny that.
Are there pedophiles that play D&D? Probably. Not many, but there are bound to be a few. There's nothing you can do about this unless you can prove it. There's no reason to start a witchhunt just because some pedophile likes to play D&D.D&D players are not more likely to commit suicide. In fact I've heard quite the opposite. (Though I admit I haven't done any research)
this is an example of one such case.For my final advice, I want to tell you that you might want to be careful about the selection of your fellow gamers.
Glad to see so many christian people on the reasonable side of the fence, because there are enough raving crusaders out for blood, gleefully ignoring the fact that organized religions have caused more suffering in the world than... well... everything else. Combined.
Cue somewhat off-topic rant:
Anyway, as a professional, I would actually recommend role-playing games for those who are of sufficient mental health to handle escapist hobbies, as it can help foster an active imagination, increase your social skills, teach cooperation and trust, and might allow you to vent some frustration without hurting anyone or anything. I have seen it successfully used as a reflective exercise for families, where children are asked to role-play their parents, to help the parents to become more aware of their own behavior, or as a therapeutically oriented means to give sufferers of childhood trauma a way to work it out through looking at it manifest in an alternate persona, sidestepping the grief and anguish and giving them a more objective take on it, and see other ways to deal with it. And many other examples of role-play therapy exists.
This however, is not related to pathfinder, as the point of pathfinder is primarily to have fun, and face imaginary demons, not your own.
I'm a Christian gamer and have been for three decades. I lived through the D&D hysteria of the 80's and it makes no more sense than it does now. I still get asked about it by people who've known me all my life.
Look, if the game is making you uncomfortable, don't play it. There are plenty of other great pursuits in life. But if you're looking for discussion points to use when your church members ask you about it, point out that Christ often used parables to teach wisdom, and that roleplaying a hero who fights evil is a form of parable.
"Where man sees but withered leaves, God sees sweet flowers growing." - Albert Laighton
While Christian and conservative indeed are not synonyms, I think they do go hand in hand. Christians SHOULD lean heavily toward the right wing.
What?!? How do you come to that conclusion? Did you know that a lot of people world-wide support the welfare state (a project generally considered on the left wing side) because of their Christian values?
EDIT: Sorry, I see people are already trying to avoid this threadjack. Carry on. Nothing to see here.
how is this thread still going ? oh right the OP menioned religion ....
I'm wondering whats so bad about the game that makes these men say I shouldn't play it?
answer: nothing
religon dosen't need a reason, never has, we don't like it , so you can't do it ... cos we say so.
are you thinking ? you shouldn't think, thinking is the devils work best just to obey without thought cheers thx ;)
I see a therapist for bipolar disorder and also am part of a assemblies of god church. I had a visit with my therapist today. Well I decided since I had quite a bit of a wait before my appointment to read my Pathfinder core rulebook in the waiting room since I wanted to refresh myself on the rules. Well my therapist ask if he could look at the book and I said sure he then went on to tell me that being a christian man that I shouldn't play games like pathfinder that they promote the work of the devil. I later after the appointment was thinking about this when I got a phone call from the pastor of the church I go to about something there putting on anyway I asked the Pastor about his thoughts on D&D and he said he had no comments on that subject. So I guess I'm wondering whats so bad about the game that makes these men say I shouldn't play it?
I'm a christian. I've actually had a discussion about this with my brother recently as he was having the same thoughts. I've been playing the game since I was 12. The nice thing (and I suppose the bad thing too) about this game is that it can be anything you want it to be. I can see the potential for the game to be turned into something abhorrent by christian standards, and at the same time, it can coincide with them if you want it to. A roleplaying game is very malleable. There have been products put out over the years that I personally stayed away from because of my religious beliefs and there a few conventions of the game that I don't run in my games (for instance, I don't allow players to play evil characters), but I can say, I don't feel I'm committing any sins when I play this game with my friends. We have fun with playing the game and that's all it is.
Hope that helps.
I see a therapist for bipolar disorder and also am part of a assemblies of god church. I had a visit with my therapist today. Well I decided since I had quite a bit of a wait before my appointment to read my Pathfinder core rulebook in the waiting room since I wanted to refresh myself on the rules. Well my therapist ask if he could look at the book and I said sure he then went on to tell me that being a christian man that I shouldn't play games like pathfinder that they promote the work of the devil. I later after the appointment was thinking about this when I got a phone call from the pastor of the church I go to about something there putting on anyway I asked the Pastor about his thoughts on D&D and he said he had no comments on that subject. So I guess I'm wondering whats so bad about the game that makes these men say I shouldn't play it?
Phew, just read through this entire thread, and it seems advice here is pretty unanimous. However, there are some unclear issues:
Is this therapist a professional, qualified psychotherapist, or is he in effect a voluntary faith-councillor with no ties to the professional bodies?
If he is the former, his comments should be reported to his supervisor or the ethics board that oversees his licence, because he went way, way over the line of professional ethics. If he is the latter, I would question his ability to help you deal with your problems if he is so unprofessional as to make a comment like this, as it appears to have no basis in reality and seems to only illustrate that he doesn't know what he is talking about. In either case, I would recommend you see a properly qualified therapist if you have problems. Bipolar disorder is no joke, and comes in many forms.
I don't doubt his advice was well-meaning, but well-meaning also landed a lot of innocent people in jail and destroyed many families during the 'Satanic Panic' of the eighties (I lived through it, I remember it well).
Playing games like D&D and Pathfinder have been shown to increase social skills, numeracy, literacy, problem solving skills, relieve stress and help form stable relationships. Allegations that they have encouraged people to become serial killers, mass murderers, devil worshippers have not been found to have any basis in reality, much like the demons, devils and magic spells in the games.
There are a very few cases where individuals are mentally ill to the state where they had severe problems differentiating reality from fantasy when they shouldn't play games like D&D, but then they also shouldn't read books or watch TV in that state either, but if you don't think that's you (and the King of the Potato People agrees) you should be OK. (Just kidding about the King of the Potato People, by the way - no-one ever takes his opinion seriously about anything).
To me it sounds like you are doing the right thing - you should at least talk to him again about the subject, find out why he thinks this is promoting the work of the devil (he may be just misinformed) and what his professional ethics dictate about his personal beliefs and his relationship with his clients.
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4) Extreme violence in the game. Let's face it, the game is really, really violent. Violent and/or gruesome death for somebody/something is a part of just about every session. Some denominations of Christianity (including the one I am currently a part of, although I myself am not a pacifist) reject violence. For the violence alone the game is PG-rated, in my opinion, and probably not appropriate for young children. Again, however, this is fantasy, and professional opinions vary as to whether excessive violence in games or roleplaying has any effect on real life behavior.
I was under the impression all versions of Christianity (the organised faiths, not just a guy in robes wandering around communes with their "faithful") reject violence? I must be mistaken, did Jesus Christ not reject violence as well?
Normal, sane people reject violence. It has nothing to do with religion. Not everyone in this world needs a deity to remind them to behave and act nicely with the other humans.
I reject violence and I am not religious. I belong to no faith and I certainly do not waste my time stating that I am an Athiest because it might be the flavour of the moment. However, I am perfectly capable of making rational decisions and seeking non-violent resolutions to a situation.
My morality was taught and refined in a secular home. My parents were secular, good people. They had no problem with me roleplaying, though my father made sure the content was suitable before I played.
Please do not get me wrong, I am not opposed to religion (or may be I am looking through this post again). To each his own. However, statements like yours populate these boards and kind of hold Christianity as the only way to live a respectable life. The majority of roleplayers are nice, stable people who do not require religion to keep them on track socially.
The therapist in this case is acting unethically and has brought his own stance on an RPG into his practice. Therapy should not be influenced by religion, there is enough problems faced by patients who are going through a tough time. Religion, like RPGs, may well complicate those problems further.
I agree with Cartigan and the others, therapy is not a place for religion. Sorry if that offends some people on this thread, but I believe religion is not always a good thing in some circumstances.
If it wasn't for Dungeons and Dragons I wouldn't have the deep abiding love of Lucifer that I have today.
I appreciate the advice you all gave and I believe I'll continue playing for the fact that I don't feel it has changed my faith in anyway. I understand that it is just a game.
There is no conflict. I am a Christian, too, well, sort of (not a religious fan, very spiritual, but I follow New Testament teachings, and not Old). And it hasn't made me want to kill my dad to gain his inheritance or attack cars at night thinking the headlights were will o' wisps.
The people that did those horrible events all had one thing in common --- a mental disorder and/or drug habit. When they profiled the victims/perps, it was on the list of what they did before killing/suicide. Even though drug abuse was on the list, for some strange reason, that was skipped. Instead, the attack went to D&D. Mainly because the very demographic that displayed such symptoms of behavior and drug abuse, also happened to be the same demographic that played D&D.
A coincidence, really.
So, the blame went to D&D. The churches ate it up, disregarding the fact that there was either heavy drug abuse or a mental disorder to begin with, prior to the gaming.
It's not different than a gun. If you gave a gun to a level-headed, stable, rational person, no one is going to get murdered. At least not without one heck of a good reason (legit self-defense comes to mind). If you gave it to someone mentally unstable or on drugs, expect there to be dire consequences. Is it the gun's fault? No. The gun shouldn't have been given to the person in that state in the first place. The one to blame is the one that ignored the person's state and gave them the gun anyway. Same with kids and videogames, if your child has issues, the worst thing you can do is let them just escape into video gaming. Then they get addicted or attempt to commit acts similiar to the game, and then all the blame goes on the video game where the blame truly shouldn't be.
The 90s came along, and the blame went to video games. Mortal Kombat was the first, then came GTA in the new millenium, and so on. I dunno what the churches are blaming now as the largest scapegoat, I think they ran out of things to blame and are now pointing fingers at everything they've pointed at in the past already.
Also, your therapist overstepped his bounds. I suggest getting a new one. They're supposed to give unbiased advice, untainted by their own personal views.
@Jesus and pacifism, I seem to have this idea there was a situation where Jesus took a whip to a bunch of people that had basically set up a market inside of a temple. Am I remembering that wrong?
An example is that D&D was linked with satanism. While this isn't true, some gamers are satanists. There's no way that you can deny that.
Are there pedophiles that play D&D? Probably. Not many, but there are bound to be a few. There's nothing you can do about this unless you can prove it. There's no reason to start a witchhunt just because some pedophile likes to play D&D.D&D players are not more likely to commit suicide. In fact I've heard quite the opposite. (Though I admit I haven't done any research)
this is an example of one such case.For my final advice, I want to tell you that you might want to be careful about the selection of your fellow gamers.
That being said though, all the same accusations could be levelled at Church.
Are there members of the clergy and the flock who covertly worship satan? Who knows?
The pedophilia aspect was pretty interesting; I haven't heard of this occuring at a gaming group, yet there's a lot of houses of the holy fallen into this - I reckon concerned religious groups might want to refrain from raising this issue.
Suicides? Well that hasn't borne out well either for the nay sayers, as Gamers are underrepresented in suicides against the average of the population, your claim is correct.
Indeed be careful about the selection of your fellow gamers, but that advice should apply in all areas of life - especially be wary of those who try and 'save you from sin' over a role playing game.
In modern times, people are more pesceful and religion has changed to reflect that.
Yeah true, good thing we aren't at war with anyone.
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The Christian God is the God of the Old Testament, and that God had little compunction about ordering/committing the occasional Genocide. Of course, those were violent times and their stories reflected a violent God. In modern times, people are more pesceful and religion has changed to reflect that.
Well, I did end my post commenting on the therapist in question. Is that not relevant to the OP?
I may be mistaken, and correct me if I am wrong, is not Jesus Christ the focus of the New Testament. That Christianity derives its name from "Christ"? I was under the impression that the message in the Old Testament differs from the message in the New Testament.
The God of the Bible is what humanity makes it. Not what the Bible makes it. The Bible is not an organic, living thing. Just like the religious texts of Islam and Judaism. The humans are the living, organic part.
Modern churches shy away from Hell (well, was that not a Catholic creaton?) and the nastiness of the Old Testament. Only recently have I seen Hell even mentioned by an organised group of Christians.
As you said, the change in people has resulted in the change in religion. However, I think you need to factor the New Testament into what you posted above. I tend to agree with LilithsThrall on this one, though.
Haven't you ever seen "Mazes and Monsters?" You don't want to spend the rest of your days slaying Gorvils and calling yourself Pardeux, do you Mr. Hanks?
I do. I so envied that guy as a kid. So much for it being a successful cautionary tale. ;)
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Crusades, Inquistions, and Witch Trials haven't happened in a while, so I'd have to say Christianity is mellowing with age. The Old Testament is part of the Christian faith, not sure why people are saying otherwise. Jesus did not supplant the OT God. Furthermore, his message, as well as the NT, are not unbridled Pacifism.
No.
No one is denyng that either book of the Bible is irrelevant to the Christian faith. I am not sure any one here is that ignorant. You simply cannot say Christianity is either the first book or the sequel. (The first book is way better then the sequel IMO).
As for unbridled pacifism, what would you say Christianity is developing into nowadays? All I hear is peace, peace and more peace. Also, I do not believe anyone here was making the point it is unbridled pacifism either.
Christ may not have preached "unbridled pacifism", I honestly cannot remember and really it has no great impact on me if he did or not. However, I would say it leans more towards pacifism than aggression. In my experience, I have never encountered any Christian denomination that has ever promoted anything but peace.
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It has some pacifistic parts to it, "Turn the other cheek", "Let him without sin cast the first stone," "Those that live by the sword will die by the sword," but also some warlike parts, "I bring not peace, but a sword."
"I bring not peace, but a sword..."
Your interpretation is probably too literally. Like may be believing that just because it is written in a book it must be true. The author is probably having Jesus using metaphor (making an implied comparison between two different things) that the sword is a differing ideology. He is not promoting violence or conflict in the way you appear to believe, he is promoting a different view or ideological debate.
"Those who live by the sword will die by the sword..."
How are you saying that he is advocating violence in this quote? The author may be saying that Jesus is observing that people who use violence die by violence. So stop it! "Whatever means you live by..."
May be not?
RunebladeX,
I'm not a person seeking therapy, nor am I bipolar. Perhaps you've me confused with another poster?
My point though is this:
A person has the right to seek a therapist that shares their worldview.
A therapist has the right to advertise that they have a particular worldview and will help their clients deal with their difficulties in living according to that worldview.
The vanilla worldview is helping people maintain their job and their personal relationships. Lots of therapists just do that. Any therapist that is inflicted on someone---e.g., by a court order, should pretty much stick to just that. But we live in a vaguely free market society. People can and do seek out therapists to help them with the psychological and other difficulties associated with living out their own codes of conduct, be they religious or otherwise (I've heard of plenty of people seeking therapy for dealing with guilt associated with their large carbon footprint---they almost certainly don't want a therapist who is a huge oil company booster).
In a game world, I could frankly see a paladin frequently being in therapy (although he'd probably call it consultation/confession with his priest or spiritual mentor). Priests are obviously a part of this, but a lot of priests will refer you to someone with more expertise in handling your particular disorder or challenge. He might feel perfectly at home counseling you on how to resist garden variety sexual temptation, but what if you have a serious surge in your libido if you're in a manic phase? That's the market niche for counselors and therapists that provide their services within a particular world view. Not everyone likes the same flavor of ice cream. Some people might want to banish temptations a la Wilde (i.e., by giving in to it), whereas others want to maintain particular standards and to simply mitigate the psychological blowback from it.
I apologize EWHM i was referring to Mageye.
Did everyone just skip over my post about Mageye being bipolar?! while i agree he should switch therapists ASAP my reasons are completely different than everyone elses. Most seem to think the therapist overstepped his bounds (and i agree) but that is not reason enough to switch therapists. what IS reason to switch is that his therapist has no understanding of RPG's and that playing a role playig game could very well aggravate his condition and his therapist does not have the knowlege to even discuss it with Mageye cause he has no understanding of pathfinder. while pathfinder conflicting with his religion is a serious matter i don't think it's NEARLY as serious as what pathfinder could do to his condition. Do people people actually think Mageye should play pathfinder when being Bipoler is a mental disorder? and his mental condition could be as bad as him actually having problems WITH REALITY or bouts of depression to point of suicide!? thats why i think his condition should come first and foremost cause pathfinder actually could put his life at risk!!! He needs a therapist who can give him advice on wether pathfinder is even safe for him to play or how it could effect his condition.
to me it would be no different if a suicidal person was seeing a therapist and was talking about how he was going to take up hunting and the therapist saying "you should not shoot animals for sport you will burn in hell". in these cases religious issues should not be the main issues at hand. the patients safety and health should come first and foremost. And in Mageye's case i think his therapist has failed to realize a serious matter that could easily conflict with his condition.
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Do people people actually think Mageye should play pathfinder when being Bipoler is a mental disorder? and his mental condition could be as bad as him actually having problems WITH REALITY or bouts of depression to point of suicide!? thats why i think his condition should come first and foremost cause pathfinder actually could put his life at risk!!! He needs a therapist who can give him advice on wether pathfinder is even safe for him to play or how it could effect his condition.
Personally, no. I did say in an earlier post that I even consider religion (well may be I hinted) to not be an ideal practice for people with bipolar disorder. Both promote a leaning towards some form of fantasy.
However, Mageye will ultimately make the decision to play or not. People were posting in response to his inquiry. I am not a trained therapist, so I am not going to advise him on how to deal with his disorder.
I was commenting on the professionalism of his therapist. This was echoed by a lot of posters. I am in no position to offer extensive concern over his welfare or make demands of him since this is a forum and really I have no clue who he is (and vice versa).
His therapist was making a decision on Pathfinder, he said it would lead to the devil or some such nonsense. So, he does need to find a therapist who will help him. One that does not sell his own moral beliefs and is genuinely more concerned with his welfare rather than an opportunity to sell the church line on roleplaying games.
How about taking mental health and divorcing it from religion for one? Next we might have people praying for a cure rather than seeking medical help:
"No, no, no. All the therapy you need is devotion to God and regular prayer. You will be fine!"
Sorry if this sounds rough, but I would be wary of any religious organisation that offered therapy. You simply cannot trust that the person you are relying on to put your welfare before their faith.
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So I guess I'm wondering whats so bad about the game that makes these men say I shouldn't play it?
Most probably they were told something that isn't true. As far as moral and religious reasoning go, the quality of a D&D game or Pathfinder game depends on the quality of the people who play it. If you play the game with people who share your values, there will be nothing objectionable or sinful about it.
If you decide to play, make sure you start out slow, in order to judge its effect for yourself. Pathfinder is a very good game, but that means the gameplay can be addicting if you overdose on it. Be sure not to let it dominate your thoughts.
No one is denyng that either book of the Bible is irrelevant to the Christian faith.
I am however saying that Christainity is irrelevant.
/flame on
Hail Eris