|
Look MiB, your problem is the same one as with several posters on this board. You might have a point, sometimes even a valid one, but every time when you try to verbalize it you just can't let go and NOT throw in a random derogatory comment. And after the first broadside is fired you look around surprised, apparently not understanding why people don't take you seriously.
I don't enjoy conversations with people who cannot get a point across without using words such as "boneheaded", "bullcrap", "failure", "Oberoni-Strawman-Stormwind-Vossock fallacy". That's not fun and not funny, that's just a boring trek thru a mountain of drivel in search of some kind of sense.
I believe that most of the Paizo forum regulars take enough of such rhetoric in everyday life to be sick and tired of it. Grow up, learn to present your arguments in a civilized fashion.
Of course, there is also the possibility of you doing it on purpose, I don't know, to be the anti-star of the forum or to have something fun to brouhahaha with The Den people (and yes, I do read the Den).
|
This thread seems to have turned into "let's gang up on the guy with an unpopular opinion!", which is a shame. Though at least it's taken more of a turn towards general silliness in the last page or so!
While it's nice to paint it that way the thread started out as nothing more than a huge hook floating in the water. You start a thread like that and it's inevitably going to lead to non-productive bickering. It's deliberate trolling.
Edit: MiB deliberately started the thread with little or no point so that he could let others express their opinions and he could pick them apart rather than actually having to articulate his own opinion and defend it.
This thread seems to have turned into "let's gang up on the guy with an unpopular opinion!", which is a shame. Though at least it's taken more of a turn towards general silliness in the last page or so!
I'm pretty sure that pretty much everybody would have some point where a trait could be made that they could find offensive. It just so happened that this trait reached MiB's threshhold. It's perfectly fine to disagree with him on that, but do we really need literally hundreds of posts telling him that he's wrong for thinking prostitution is bad?
For what it's worth I think his statement makes perfect sense. It's one thing to believe that there is such a thing as objective evil, but that doesn't mean that everybody agrees on what is in that 'objectively evil' category.
I believe that prostitution is an objective moral evil.Anybody else see something wrong with this statement (emphasis mine)?
His statement about objectivity seems to me very subjective...
If something is objective, that means that it is, whether you believe it or not. It's objective that concrete is hard. It doesn't matter if you think so or not, it is. When something is entirely a matter of perspective, that makes it subjective. So prostitution is /subjectively/ evil. Some people believe that it's a sin and only wicked people would be part of it. Having known a few sex workers as people outside their profession, I do not consider this to be the case. Since it's not illegal everywhere (not even in the entire United States) and is a recognized industry in several developed nations (which is the default standard for moral authority for some reason) I think one would be hard-pressed to support the notion that it is /objectively/ evil.
Actually, yes you have. Saying that other people's views are not valid is insulting.No, it's a disagreement, not an insult.
Actually, saying you disagree is is a disagreement. Saying they are wrong for what they believe is insulting.
You also have comments like
I see a lot of comments about how Pathfinder is a mature game for mature gamers such as themselves combined with terribly immature views on how morality is presented.
which insults the moral values and intelligence of the other people you are talking to.
Also, you have used the comment that it is an objective social evil multiple times. The first time you did not say it was your belief.
I am outraged that someone would present an objective social evil as good in fiction, using the same justifications as the people in the real world who defend that objective social evil.
And even said you were outraged by the other people's beliefs, which have just as much validity as yours.
It's prostitution
whether sacred or profane.
Mused A Smurf in Black.
This is how it ends
The Smurf train is a'rollinNow with more haiku!
[Shatner]
If you're
God
What would you want
with
a prostitute?
[/Shatner]
The dr is not expressing the "scientific or realistic view" she is giving her own view. And in my opinion she is doing what others her are doing, which is she is viewing the evidence from her point of view rather than its orginal context.The primary text I have read on the matter, clearly state that it was honor to be chosen and trained as clergy of aphrodite.
That ms budin disagrees with the primary text is not a realistic or scincetific view, it is only HER view.
Care to provide a link or source to your 'primary text'? I would appreciate it, and this would greatly aid your position, as otherwise it seems like just an empty assertion with nothing to back it up.
To me her view is the same as the european view of the Burka.
Being a european myself, I would be interested what you think the 'european view of the Burka' is.
Differentiated view on 'sacred prostitutes'.
Thanks for your remarks, very interesting...
Edit: fixed typo.
|
The dr is not expressing the "scientific or realistic view" she is giving her own view. And in my opinion she is doing what others her are doing, which is she is viewing the evidence from her point of view rather than its orginal context.The primary text I have read on the matter, clearly state that it was honor to be chosen and trained as clergy of aphrodite.
That ms budin disagrees with the primary text is not a realistic or scincetific view, it is only HER view.
Care to provide a link or source to your 'primary text'? I would appreciate it, and this would greatly aid your position, as otherwise it seems like just an empty assertion with nothing to back it up.
Being a european myself, I would be interested what you think the 'european view of the Burka' is.
To me her view is the same as the european view of the Burka.
Well, France has banned it as it's degrading to women, sexist, a method of oppression and all sorts of other stuff. Switzerland and some other countries are discussing the same. MAny of the women who actualy were a nikab (not a burka) consider it empowering as it means men aren't treating them as a lust object. I'd imagine this is the dichotomy meant.
Not everyone knows
The glory that is Haiku
But that, soon, will change.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
|
I posted the OP under the impression that the reactions would be "WTF?"ing right along with me, rather than "Yeah, so?" I didn't come in primed for an argument because didn't expect to run into one.
Seriously?
I can get not liking it, but to expect that everyone would agree with you...
Where did you think you were posting? 1954?
|
|
Uh. I'm standing right here. No need to talk about me like I'm not here.
I posted the OP under the impression that the reactions would be "WTF?"ing right along with me, rather than "Yeah, so?" I didn't come in primed for an argument because didn't expect to run into one.
Seriously?
It was a blatant troll and you know it.
Not everyone knows
The glory that is Haiku
But that, soon, will change.
To speak or not? Hm.
Then again, I've never beenPortrayed as a Smurf.
Refreshing.
Uh. I'm standing right here. No need to talk about me like I'm not here.
I posted the OP under the impression that the reactions would be "WTF?"ing right along with me, rather than "Yeah, so?" I didn't come in primed for an argument because didn't expect to run into one.
Seriously?
It was a blatant troll and you know it.
I haven't seen a thread of his that hasn't basically turned into this.
That's not "holding a grudge", that's recognizing a pattern of behavior.
Smurf.
Just wanted to see how that worked. Nothing to add otherwise
Well, France has banned it as it's degrading to women, sexist, a method of oppression and all sorts of other stuff. Switzerland and some other countries are discussing the same. MAny of the women who actualy were a nikab (not a burka) consider it empowering as it means men aren't treating them as a lust object. I'd imagine this is the dichotomy meant.
This is interesting, because I thought one of the main reasons it was banned in France was because many young girls were beaten or spit at in the banlieue because they wore western clothes. Of course, general islamophobia was also part of the reason.
The empowerment you talk of seems to be an overly positive evaluation of the whole thing. The degree of belief in Islam of the fathers pretty much dictates how much freedom the muslim girls have (at least those I know), and almost no muslim girls have the same degree of freedom that native girls enjoy. I know this is just anecdotal, but it is the experience I have made, and what I was told by the girls themselves.
|
|
Well, France has banned it as it's degrading to women, sexist, a method of oppression and all sorts of other stuff. Switzerland and some other countries are discussing the same. MAny of the women who actualy were a nikab (not a burka) consider it empowering as it means men aren't treating them as a lust object. I'd imagine this is the dichotomy meant.
The dr is not expressing the "scientific or realistic view" she is giving her own view. And in my opinion she is doing what others her are doing, which is she is viewing the evidence from her point of view rather than its orginal context.The primary text I have read on the matter, clearly state that it was honor to be chosen and trained as clergy of aphrodite.
That ms budin disagrees with the primary text is not a realistic or scincetific view, it is only HER view.
Care to provide a link or source to your 'primary text'? I would appreciate it, and this would greatly aid your position, as otherwise it seems like just an empty assertion with nothing to back it up.
Being a european myself, I would be interested what you think the 'european view of the Burka' is.
To me her view is the same as the european view of the Burka.
I don't know much about France's policies, but isn't a bunch of their laws made almost to discriminate as opposed to liberate? Like I heard the burka thing is to try and get Muslims to look less like Muslims, therefore making the non-Muslims feel better. Wasn't the riots 1-2 years ago based on a Muslim boy/man not having the rights of "real" French citizens, and the Muslim public just went crazy over it?
|
|
Uh. I'm standing right here. No need to talk about me like I'm not here.
I posted the OP under the impression that the reactions would be "WTF?"ing right along with me, rather than "Yeah, so?" I didn't come in primed for an argument because didn't expect to run into one.
Seriously?
It was a blatant troll and you know it.
I haven't seen a thread of his that hasn't basically turned into this.
That's not "holding a grudge", that's recognizing a pattern of behavior.
It's internet behavior. I don't think his stuff is too different from lots of places, and people nowdays get offended when their ideas are dismissed (AMiB dismisses them quite quickly usually). Since he's fully believes he is correct, and posts that way, people get offended.
I wonder when this thread will get locked?
I don't know much about France's policies, but isn't a bunch of their laws made almost to discriminate as opposed to liberate? Like I heard the burka thing is to try and get Muslims to look like Muslims, therefore making the non-Muslims feel better. Wasn't the riots 1-2 years ago based on a Muslim boy/man not having the rights of "real" French citizens, and the Muslim public just went crazy over it?
I don't think so. The french are a bit weird sometimes, but they are really obsessed with the whole freedom-equality-brotherhood thing. The riots were based on the fact that the police hunted thieves who then fled onto train rails and got injured or killed.
And this is EXACTLY the party line of organizations in the real world which ruthlessly exploit people.
The real world is full of people exploiting others, if it wheren´t so you would not enjoy the things which you posses or which you are used to. Don´t get me wrong I am not saying that exploiting others is ok. I think that you just point your finger on something which is disgusting you personally for whatever true reason. Also I am quite sure that there are many things in your daily life which you accept without giving a second thought. Maybe you enjoy coffee, maybe you own a cell phone... the point is that you are pretending to be a "good" person but - sorry for that - you are just as "evil" as me and every one else around. You are just a small number in the lines of organizations and cultures who are exploiting others and I would be astonished if you ever really have fought for human rights/ humanity in your life.
The real tragedy about this is that you are searching for "righteousness" within pages of absurdity. Pages which have nothing to do with real world problematics or troubles.If you want a fair realistic game then make use of reality with caution and keep in mind that your own point of view mustn´t reflect reality.
France is a secular society - that is there should be no religion in government or law, what you do in the home is fine.
The French coined the phrase Liberty, equality and fraternity.
Edited out: Americans are racist towards the French rant because it doesn't belong in this thread.
|
Sacred Prostitute.
She chooses her path of faith.
For her GOD, she moans.
Faithful Sex Worker.
His sermon a gift. Feel the
coming of his Lord.
Whore, hooker, slut, filth.
All these things she's called each night.
Her Faith sustains her.
Some can't understand.
their faith is found in the souls
of those each sleeps with.
SMURF the Smurfing smurfers!
France is a secular society - that is there should be no religion in government or law, what you do in the home is fine.
The French coined the phrase Liberty, equality and fraternity and with out them there would be no USA.
You say that you saved their asses in 2 world wars - they saved yours in your rebellion against the Crown and in 1812 and they are way too polite to stick that in your face.
They see themselves and the US a equals and had a lot of admiration for your democracy thats why they talk to you straight - Dont invade Iraq its a stupid idea it will just get messy - were they wrong nope. So stop hating on the French.
Minor threadjack.
This thread is this long? LOL.
For real haiku
Involve nature and senses
Go smurf in a tree!
|
|
France is a secular society - that is there should be no religion in government or law, what you do in the home is fine.
The French coined the phrase Liberty, equality and fraternity.
Edited out: Americans are racist towards the French rant because it doesn't belong in this thread.
I fully understand that. But modern France also had these policies of ghettos and walling off their citizens. I've learned lots of those citizens happens to be Muslims. I know France used to be heavily Catholic, so I'm wondering if France is one of those countries that speak of liberty, equality, and fraternity, but pays lip service to them when it is convenient (not like the US or other countries doesn't do that as well).
Minor threadjack. ** spoiler omitted **France is a secular society - that is there should be no religion in government or law, what you do in the home is fine.
The French coined the phrase Liberty, equality and fraternity and with out them there would be no USA.
You say that you saved their asses in 2 world wars - they saved yours in your rebellion against the Crown and in 1812 and they are way too polite to stick that in your face.
They see themselves and the US a equals and had a lot of admiration for your democracy thats why they talk to you straight - Dont invade Iraq its a stupid idea it will just get messy - were they wrong nope. So stop hating on the French.
Kryptik - I was also talking about 1812 a long discourse on the history of US French relations belong in another thread. I just annoys me that people in the US think its fine to hold historical inaccurate and racist attitudes toward the French and then get upset when other countries hold the same attitudes towards them.
Frenchies! Where! Grrrrr.......
I fully understand that. But modern France also had these policies of ghettos and walling off their citizens. I've learned lots of those citizens happens to be Muslims. I know France used to be heavily Catholic, so I'm wondering if France is one of those countries that speak of liberty, equality, and fraternity, but pays lip service to them when it is convenient (not like the US or other countries doesn't do that as well).France is a secular society - that is there should be no religion in government or law, what you do in the home is fine.
The French coined the phrase Liberty, equality and fraternity.
Edited out: Americans are racist towards the French rant because it doesn't belong in this thread.
Good god an the US doesnt have Ghettos based on economics and race - it a condition of all countries - Harlem, East La and so on. There is that US is perfect and the French are sneaky evil attitude.
Edit: I didnt read the end of your post.. sorry about the blast. All countries are the same to a lesser or greater extent.. What is important is how a country lives up to its ideals.
Some times a country does and most of the time its just going though the motions and the appearance of living up to its ideals.
I am impressed.
10 pages and climbing, all because someone is offended that a prostitute might actually learn something from a life-long profession of dealing with her customers?
What?
Just because she's in a profession that someone dislikes means she turns off her brain and is incapable of improving her basic understanding of human nature?
A baker gets better at baking, a forrester gets better at survival, but no, not prostitutes. They're somehow lesser beings who go to work brain dead and learn nothing during their career?
Poppykok!
[sic]
Like em or detest em, use em or abuse em, champion their cause or besmirch their names, whatever your opinion of their trade may be, it's a silly notion indeed to assume that their brains are less capable of learning than the brains of everyone else in every other profession.
Are we done here yet?
....and the French are sneaky evil attitude.
You...you get me! At last! Someone to share my maulings with!