Advanced Player's Guide silliness: Bonuses for being a prostitute


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

Ai Pee Jee, page 333 wrote:
Calistrian Prostitute (Calistria): You worked in one of Calistria’s temples as a sacred prostitute, and you know how to flatter, please, and (most of all) listen. You gain a +1 trait bonus on Sense Motive checks and Diplomacy checks to gather information, and one of these skills (your choice) is always a class skill for you.

Seriously?


Yep, that's brought over from the Elves of Golarion book.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

Betatrack wrote:
Yep, that's brought over from the Elves of Golarion book.

You mean this is a reprint? Someone thought this was such a great idea that it not only needed to be printed once, but reprinted in the APG?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Why not? Sacred prostitutes even have a historical precedent.

You should have noticed by now that Paizo products aren't usually PG. Which actually is a good thing in my opinion.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

And...having been a prostitute is worse than being a murderer, drug addict, demon cultist, etc. that have existed for some time now?


Zaister wrote:

Why not? Sacred prostitutes even have a historical precedent.

You should have noticed by now that Paizo products aren't usually PG. Which actually is a good thing in my opinion.

I agree.

I better have a Sacred prostitute in my party than an Chaotic Evil Assassin.


Plus they totally fit the god they're associated with, Calistria being a goddess of seduction and all.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
A Man In Black wrote:
Ai Pee Jee, page 333 wrote:
Calistrian Prostitute (Calistria): You worked in one of Calistria’s temples as a sacred prostitute, and you know how to flatter, please, and (most of all) listen. You gain a +1 trait bonus on Sense Motive checks and Diplomacy checks to gather information, and one of these skills (your choice) is always a class skill for you.
Seriously?

I don't see why this would suprise or bother anybody. Pathfinder, and by extension fairly much every RPG, involves feats of violence and thievery, why shouldn't some other aspects of human nature creep in.

Or is this expression of suprise in par with the US idea that it is OK to graphically kill someone, but sex is somehow taboo? I can't ever understand this strange take people have to sex, its something we all (eventually) do after all, which thankfully is not the same for most other aspects of RPGs.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

Ordinary Kraken wrote:
Or is this expression of suprise in par with the US idea that it is OK to graphically kill someone, but sex is somehow taboo? I can't ever understand this strange take people have to sex, its something we all (eventually) do after all, which thankfully is not the same for most other aspects of RPGs.

Where are you from that prostitution isn't considered exploitative and taboo?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I never really pictured MiB as a puritan, but now it all falls into place.

Behold the Man in Black, wearing his pointy hat, swinging the Holy Book of Fail as he denounces the heretics of design and apostates of amorality ! Hear his flaming words ! GET THE PITCHFORKS !


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
A Man In Black wrote:


Where are you from that prostitution isn't considered exploitative and taboo?

Prostitution is perfectly legal in my country (Germany). Prostitutes even have to pay tax.

Lantern Lodge

I suppose with Sune it was more implied, but I'm rather blasé about it.

Goods and Services.


It's the *oldest* profession.


Sacred prostitute is somewhat more popular than the profane prostitute.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

A Man In Black: The Advanced Player Guide is a good book. nevertheless, IT HAS some concerning feats and abilities. In a recent thread, you, BEING PERFECTLY RIGHT, IMO, raised a point about one (Cheater of Mystra).

But, again, IMO, if you want to criticize the book, let's talk about problematic spells or feats and class features... complain about a background thing like this is not convenient in terms of time and space management.

And a sacred prostitute makes perfectly sense in several campaings, Golarion included.

And again, consider prostitution as taboo and assassination as perfectly fine is a sort of logic that makes me scaried.

Players =/= PCs. In our society prostitution in BAD, expecially because is associated with abuses and slavery. But Even murder is. Did you complained about the assassin class? I mean, not about mechanics, but about IT BEING AN ASSASSIN?

Frankly, I follow your posts with attention because, even if you are sometimes a little bit snarky, you generally raise points that deserve completely to be considered. But if you start threads like this, you lose completely credibility.

My intention is not to be offending, I just mean is a waste of time.


Gorbacz wrote:

I never really pictured MiB as a puritan, but now it all falls into place.

Behold the Man in Black, wearing his pointy hat, swinging the Holy Book of Fail as he denounces the heretics of design and apostates of amorality ! Hear his flaming words ! GET THE PITCHFORKS !

Wot? Let MY prostitutes alone. What goes next, banning incest and marriage between cousins?! You guys are worse than the Spanish Inquisition.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
SigmaX0 wrote:
It's the *oldest* profession.

Aren't lawyers the oldest ? Was the first prostitute a lawyer client, or was the first lawyer a client of a prostitute ? :)

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

Kaiyanwang wrote:
And again, consider prostitution as taboo and assassination as perfectly fine is a sort of logic that makes me scaried.

I haven't spotted an assassin trait yet.


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

you know, there is this thing called a prestige class...


Gorbacz wrote:
SigmaX0 wrote:
It's the *oldest* profession.
Aren't lawyers the oldest ? Was the first prostitute a lawyer client, or was the first lawyer a client of a prostitute ? :)

No, lawyers are more recent. In the annals of history the people who tried to use logic and words to win arguments probably got their buts whupped more often than not. =P

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

Zaister wrote:
you know, there is this thing called a prestige class...

See, that's the problem with people being passive-aggressively sarcastic. You can never tell what they actually mean.

There's a prestige class in the 3.5 DMG, yes. You have to be evil to take it. What's your point?

Grand Lodge

*sigh* yet ANOTHER non issue...

and I always thought politics was the oldest profession... oh yeah prostitutes/ politicians... same thing! :)

Sczarni

hey guys, everyone has the right to their opinion, i am fully comfortable with the idea of a prostitution trait but hey if the man in black doesn't like it hr doesn't have to use it but lets not jump over him like he is trying to get it banned from the game.

we all have the right to speak our mind.


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A Man In Black wrote:
Kaiyanwang wrote:
And again, consider prostitution as taboo and assassination as perfectly fine is a sort of logic that makes me scaried.
I haven't spotted an assassin trait yet.

There's a prestige class in the PF core book as well. The point being that this is not something shied away from in PF. Prostitutes exist, so does slavery, so do assasins. Why are you making a big deal out of a trait that has a perfectly valid place in the world of Golarion?


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
A Man In Black wrote:
Zaister wrote:
you know, there is this thing called a prestige class...

See, that's the problem with people being passive-aggressively sarcastic. You can never tell what they actually mean.

There's a prestige class in the 3.5 DMG, yes. You have to be evil to take it. What's your point?

It's also in the Pathfinder Core Rulebook. And to qualify you don't just need to be evil, a character "must kill someone for no other reason than to become an assassin", and the class is described as being a "remorseless murderer who kills for money and the sheer thrill of death-dealing".

So that doesn't bother you as much as a character having been a prostitute?

I didn't mean to attack you, by the way, I just thought that the assassin being part of the game - and having been part since 1st edition - was certainly common knowledge. Also I don't really like being accused of personality disorders here.

Lantern Lodge

A Man In Black wrote:
I haven't spotted an assassin trait yet.

Killer(Combat) Additional damage equal to critical hit modifier of weapon

That doesn't count?


Krome wrote:
I always thought politics was the oldest profession... oh yeah prostitutes/ politicians... same thing! :)

Hey! You're insulting prostitutes. They are not evil. :)


Whats wrong with being a sacred prostitute? They are like more progressive and friendly clerics.

Sczarni

seekerofshadowlight wrote:
Whats wrong with being a sacred prostitute? They are like more progressive and friendly clerics.

they would definitely convince me to join there church lol

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I think the trait is fine. As has been said before, historical basis. Also, Companions from Firefly, anyone? Honored members of society, yet "whores", as Malcolm puts it so eloquently.

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.

The trait screams Companion/Inara to me...

Sczarni

Bruno Kristensen wrote:
The trait screams Companion/Inara to me...

+1


Bruno Kristensen wrote:
The trait screams Companion/Inara to me...

For making a firefly reference here have some Rum

Hands Bruno Rum

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Betatrack wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
SigmaX0 wrote:
It's the *oldest* profession.
Aren't lawyers the oldest ? Was the first prostitute a lawyer client, or was the first lawyer a client of a prostitute ? :)
No, lawyers are more recent. In the annals of history the people who tried to use logic and words to win arguments probably got their buts whupped more often than not. =P

The oldest Profession was actually "Priest."

According to "Dictionary.com" a profression is "a vocation requiring knowledge of some department of learning or science".

The #2 Definition (any vocation or business.) would still be "Priest" as a Shaman was the first person in the community who did not have to directly provide for him/herself by hunting/gathering/etc.

The next would, of course, be the Chieften, but the Priest was usually freed of direct responsiblities first.


Quote:

*sigh* yet ANOTHER non issue...

and I always thought politics was the oldest profession... oh yeah prostitutes/ politicians... same thing! :)

In not "another" non issue. Several issues the OP pointed are, IMO, true issues. I am just shocked about the fact that people seem to be more concerned about trivial things like this, or an halfling that put out anything from his pocket, than of a feat that breaks AMF, a feat that dazes targets for several rounds, or a wizard that raises his intelligence by 10 with a swift action.

MiB:

Wanna discuss about APG problems? I'm the first that wants. But please, don't answer in the way you did. There is a trait for pronstitutes, and a PrC for assassins. They are bot part of our world as well as of golarion. trait or PRC is not the point.

Distinguish among reasonable criticism and criticize for the sake of it is the point. At least, if you start threads like this you makes this impression, and, moreover, you seem a different person from the one that started the COMPLETELY JUSTIFIED Cheater of Mystra thread.

Sczarni

Lord Fyre wrote:
Betatrack wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
SigmaX0 wrote:
It's the *oldest* profession.
Aren't lawyers the oldest ? Was the first prostitute a lawyer client, or was the first lawyer a client of a prostitute ? :)
No, lawyers are more recent. In the annals of history the people who tried to use logic and words to win arguments probably got their buts whupped more often than not. =P

The oldest Profession was actually "Priest."

According to "Dictionary.com" a profression is "a vocation requiring knowledge of some department of learning or science".

The #2 Definition (any vocation or business.) would still be "Priest" as a Shaman was the first person in the community who did not have to directly provide for him/herself by hunting/gathering/etc.

The next would, of course, be the Chieften, but the Priest was usually freed of direct responsiblities first.

i would argue that a profession would be any trade used to gain goods or services, in that thinking the first profession would be prostitution because using sex for favor's or food or protection would have been the very first trade.

Dark Archive

Am I the only one thinking of horrible, horrible jokes?

Grand Lodge

Kaiyanwang wrote:
Quote:

*sigh* yet ANOTHER non issue...

and I always thought politics was the oldest profession... oh yeah prostitutes/ politicians... same thing! :)

In not "another" non issue. Several issues the OP pointed are, IMO, true issues. I am just shocked about the fact that people seem to be more concerned about trivial things like this, or an halfling that put out anything from his pocket, than of a feat that breaks AMF, a feat that dazes targets for several rounds, or a wizard that raises his intelligence by 10 with a swift action.

MiB:

Wanna discuss about APG problems? I'm the first that wants. But please, don't answer in the way you did. There is a trait for pronstitutes, and a PrC for assassins. They are bot part of our world as well as of golarion. trait or PRC is not the point.

Distinguish among reasonable criticism and criticize for the sake of it is the point. At least, if you start threads like this you makes this impression, and, moreover, you seem a different person from the one that started the COMPLETELY JUSTIFIED Cheater of Mystra thread.

mmmm I still don't see any of these things as being a major issue. If you don't like it just don't use it. I have never been one to see the game as one size fits all. I still don't see any problem with the Selective Spell feat. Either use it or don't. Does there need to be ONE single ruling on how this affects particular nuances of every single spell? Not really. That is what GMs are for.

But as for this topic...

yet another non issue :)


+1

yet another reason I wish there was an ignore button on these forums.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Krome wrote:
mmmm I still don't see any of these things as being a major issue. If you don't like it just don't use it. I have never been one to see the game as one size fits all. I still don't see any problem with the Selective Spell feat. Either use it or don't. Does there need to be ONE single ruling on how this affects particular nuances of every single spell? Not really. That is what GMs are for.

The reasons for the desire for an "Official" ruling are:

  • Rules Lawyering & Munchkinism. Introducing unbalanced abilites promotes arguements at the gaming table that eat up time better used playing.
  • Inexperienced GMs/Players my find there experience diminished by allowing/having one character dominate the campaign.
  • Pathfinder Society Games. And agreed upon and fair rule-system makes it easier to play under multiple different game masters.


  • A Man In Black wrote:
    Betatrack wrote:
    Yep, that's brought over from the Elves of Golarion book.
    You mean this is a reprint? Someone thought this was such a great idea that it not only needed to be printed once, but reprinted in the APG?

    What exactly is it that seems unrealistic/overpowered/underpowered/boring/wrong, about this?

    Please, state the "hows and why's".

    I'm curious,

    GRU

    RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

    GRU wrote:
    A Man In Black wrote:
    Betatrack wrote:
    Yep, that's brought over from the Elves of Golarion book.
    You mean this is a reprint? Someone thought this was such a great idea that it not only needed to be printed once, but reprinted in the APG?

    What exactly is it that seems unrealistic/overpowered/underpowered/boring/wrong, about this?

    Please, state the "hows and why's".

    I'm curious,

    GRU

    Well, it is underpowered. Sacred Prostitute should be a full Prestinge Class in order to more fully develope the idea. (Wasn't there a OGL book that had one of these classes?)


    Lord Fyre wrote:
    GRU wrote:
    A Man In Black wrote:
    Betatrack wrote:
    Yep, that's brought over from the Elves of Golarion book.
    You mean this is a reprint? Someone thought this was such a great idea that it not only needed to be printed once, but reprinted in the APG?

    What exactly is it that seems unrealistic/overpowered/underpowered/boring/wrong, about this?

    Please, state the "hows and why's".

    I'm curious,

    GRU

    Well, it is underpowered. Sacred Prostitute should be a full Prestinge Class in order to more fully develope the idea.

    Hee hee,

    I get it - it is this thing called humor!
    GRU


    Krome wrote:

    mmmm I still don't see any of these things as being a major issue. If you don't like it just don't use it. I have never been one to see the game as one size fits all. I still don't see any problem with the Selective Spell feat. Either use it or don't. Does there need to be ONE single ruling on how this affects particular nuances of every single spell? Not really. That is what GMs are for.

    But as for this topic...

    yet another non issue :)

    See, you are right: but one thing is a matter of tastes, and another a thing is a mechanic that can come up and break a game.

    I like pathfinder because of his diversity, but est modus in rebus. Handwave everything as " a DM can fix it" lowers the overall high quality of the book, and the chances of the customers to remain with the brand.

    Why they fixed the paladin? because the double damage thing was game breaking, and people pointed it out. Yeah, several times people complains are trivial, but sometimes are not.

    Point out problems means I love the game and I want it working for more people, and being successful.

    Nevertheless, the sacred pronstitute thing IS NOT ONE OF THESE PROBLEMS.

    Grand Lodge

    Lord Fyre wrote:
    GRU wrote:
    A Man In Black wrote:
    Betatrack wrote:
    Yep, that's brought over from the Elves of Golarion book.
    You mean this is a reprint? Someone thought this was such a great idea that it not only needed to be printed once, but reprinted in the APG?

    What exactly is it that seems unrealistic/overpowered/underpowered/boring/wrong, about this?

    Please, state the "hows and why's".

    I'm curious,

    GRU

    Well, it is underpowered. Sacred Prostitute should be a full Prestinge Class in order to more fully develope the idea. (Wasn't there a OGL book that had one of these classes?)

    lol

    Book of Erotic Fantasy did that if I remember right. Lot of hatred for that product as well. lol Sad thing was it was actually well done compared to many of the other 3E products at the time.


    I am not sure i even understand what MiB's point is here.

    Why is it that he thinks that the inclusion of this trait is bad?


    Krome wrote:
    Lord Fyre wrote:
    GRU wrote:
    A Man In Black wrote:
    Betatrack wrote:
    Yep, that's brought over from the Elves of Golarion book.
    You mean this is a reprint? Someone thought this was such a great idea that it not only needed to be printed once, but reprinted in the APG?

    What exactly is it that seems unrealistic/overpowered/underpowered/boring/wrong, about this?

    Please, state the "hows and why's".

    I'm curious,

    GRU

    Well, it is underpowered. Sacred Prostitute should be a full Prestinge Class in order to more fully develope the idea. (Wasn't there a OGL book that had one of these classes?)

    lol

    Book of Erotic Fantasy did that if I remember right. Lot of hatred for that product as well. lol Sad thing was it was actually well done compared to many of the other 3E products at the time.

    Over all, it was a very good book if memory serves.


    Krome wrote:
    oes there need to be ONE single ruling on how this affects particular nuances of every single spell? Not really. That is what GMs are for.

    You have 9 times as many posts as I do, but let me clue you into the fact that this has no bearing whatsoever on a Man in Black discussion topic. To you or I, GM rulings are part and parcel of a balanced game, but to MiB and his ilk that's just a sign of weak game design. I've pretty much given up on arguing against that particular point of view, personally.

    Zo

    RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

    Krome wrote:
    Book of Erotic Fantasy did that if I remember right. Lot of hatred for that product as well. lol Sad thing was it was actually well done compared to many of the other 3E products at the time.
    Quote:
    Over all, it was a very good book if memory serves.

    No it was not. It was a complete failure as a game rulebook, as a guide to introducing sexual situations to roleplaying games, and as a work of erotica. It was on par with Mongoose's dribble for game balance. It had a tittering, childish take on sexuality, both in the interactions-between-adults sense and the role-of-sexuality-in-society sense. It was decidedly unerotic, which really can't be helped too much when you're spending half your time dealing with dry rules material, but the prose fiction and art were cringeworthy. There wasn't a single part of the book I'd use even in a game where everyone was comfortable with the subject matter.

    There is room for a well-written book which deals with sexuality in fantasy roleplaying in a frank and adult way. Unfortunately, quality writing on the subject is rare even outside the context of fantasy RPGs, it would be difficult to get such a book to the prospective customers (you can't exactly buy Screw The Roses at Barnes & Noble), and I suspect that the likely audience for such a book is very small. I doubt we'll ever see that book.

    I'd review it more in-depth sometime, but I'd have to borrow a copy again, and it's been out of print for ages so it's mostly a moot point.

    Zombieneighbours wrote:
    Why is it that he thinks that the inclusion of this trait is bad?

    Because an option to get bonuses for being a prostitute (in a general-topic sourcebook) is offensive to me.

    Sovereign Court

    A Man in Black jumps the shark.

    Marvelous.

    Spoiler:

    Actually, what's really intriguing me is this question.

    Which Pathfinder RPG subscriber has given AMIB his laptop so that he can read the APG?

    I'm only reading his posts now to find out bits about the APG...

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