I pair my players up then I start naming numbers. In each couple players need to compete against one another to get their number. So, in order to get a natural 18 they may very well be asked to kill their opponent/friend.
This way, we weed out the weak.
Another chargen thread? I guess it's time to repeat myself. There's a link to the original post in context at the bottom of each spoiler. The threads linked also have a lot of discussion on the topic that occurred during the six freaking years between the death and reanimation of this thread.
why a single array isn't satisfactory unless it's absurdly high:
This is why I like the "Roll X sets of stats. Let everyone use which ever set you prefer." No one's getting screwed. You're likely to get both good SAD and MAD arrays. If you feel the need you can ramp up the process for rolling the array by any of the usual methods, but there's much less need to, since you've already minimized the chance of getting stuck with bad rolls.
Good idea, what you describe is the only type of rolling for stats that I would willingly do.
Another chargen thread? I guess it's time to repeat myself. There's a link to the original post in context at the bottom of each spoiler. The threads linked also have a lot of discussion on the topic that occurred during the six freaking years between the death and reanimation of this thread.
why a single array isn't satisfactory unless it's absurdly high:
This is why I like the "Roll X sets of stats. Let everyone use which ever set you prefer." No one's getting screwed. You're likely to get both good SAD and MAD arrays. If you feel the need you can ramp up the process for rolling the array by any of the usual methods, but there's much less need to, since you've already minimized the chance of getting stuck with bad rolls.
Good idea, what you describe is the only type of rolling for stats that I would willingly do.
We do something similar.
I like making the characters first based on arrays then having the players decide which build is getting played by whom.
Roll 4d6, drop lowest, six times. Assign as you see fit.
If you roll straight 6s, you get a 19. If you roll straight 1s, you get a 2.
Lower numbers may always be selected in the name of conceptual tweaking- sure, playing someone with 18, 18, 16, 15, 14, 14 is insanely good on the mechanical end, but it can actually be surprisingly dull.
You can mulligan if your net ability scores would generate a negative number.
No maximum stat cap, no minimum stat basement.
Up until recently we went with 20-pt buy, which was fine but ultimately repetitive. For Wrath we did something sort of convoluted:
* Roll in order from STR to CHA
* 4d6 drop lowest
* Reroll your lowest result
* You may switch one of your scores
The first player ended up rolling an insane array with multiple 17s and 18s, so we altered it to the following:
* Roll in order from STR to CHA
* 4d6 drop lowest
* Reroll your lowest result
* Once both players have rolled, take the average of each rolled stat. All players use the resulting array.
* You may switch one of your scores.
The additional step prevented one player from having godlike stats and overshadowing everything, and since we only had 2 people the resulting array was still far above average.
Once I started making NPCs I rolled an entire page of stats using the first method. Point-buys which are roughly equal to the PCs got marked, and arrays which were absolutely ridiculous were set aside for BBEGs.
Interesting discovery: the Elite array is [15 14 13 12 10 8] which results typically in an NPC whose CR is equal to its HD (level)-1.
The Advanced Simple template gives an array of [17 16 15 14 12 10] and yields an NPC whose CR equals a PC of its HD (level).
Conclusion: Point-Buy is a lie, the "One True Way" has been incorporated into the CR system since before the game even existed.
math
13+10+7+5+2=37 PBE
An argument can be made for equipment once WBL scales enough to where the statistics are no longer based on stats (because BAB, CL, WBL, etc have dwarfed the values of stats).
The power levels of 'high' stats really matters most in the early levels, when NPCs have roughly close to the same wealth as PCs.
If I were to base any kind of array as being designed for PCs to have fun, I'd stick with 37 Point-Buy or use the adjusted array. Personal choice, tables may vary. Sometimes playing underpowered characters can be what makes them interesting.
Augur preferably, usually with an animal sacrifice to our blood god of choice.
'4d6 drop the lowest, two sets of six, pick your favourite set' works fine though.
This is strange, I haven't been here for a while and decided to come and post how my crazy ability score generation method is doing and here's a thread at the top of the page.
My method? let the player's choose their ability scores, just whatever they feel is right for their character. This has so far (with people being able to view each other's characters mind you) lead to no noticeable differences in power level.
A fighter who also wants to have intelligence isn't that much more powerful than a fighter without it, a Monk who needs many ability scores to even be on the same level of the fighter also doesn't gain anything by being tied to point buy system or array.
If you know your character will never make melee attacks it's also completely fine for him to basically have no strength, especially if they're a magic users or use a bag of holding.
Like if everyone has 18s in all stats almost every class is equally powerful as well, hell some classes with 18 in all stats are just as good as some classes who only have a single stat at 18.
Basically the player's being able to directly manage their power levels removes any sort of problem from any other system, the players always set them selves up at roughly the same power and no one actually seems to think all 18s would actually be fun, so you end up not only with classes always have decent stats for their class but also characters not needing to dump stats if they don't want to because they want to play a certain type of character.
A fighter who has high charisma and intelligence is no longer by definition doing it wrong, and you can now play that nobleman type character who is well rounded at combat of the sword and combat of the mind.
edit:
I too will be moving to 'players assign scores as they see fit'. Randomness is for actual play.
oh ho oh, you were the one I was actually thinking of when I decided to report back to the forums. At least I think it was you that asked me to tell you how it went when I said I was going to be doing this method. Well it;s 3 or so campaigns later, and it has worked wonderfully.
just to point this out, i'm finally not GMing a campaign and am currently running a support caster who has 6 strength. Why? because I thought that's be what my character has.
Crazy ability score generations?
Well I once tried to adapt Priority Character Gen to Pathfinder
Nobody liked it even if I thought I made it brilliant.
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oh ho oh, you were the one I was actually thinking of when I decided to report back to the forums. At least I think it was you that asked me to tell you how it went when I said I was going to be doing this method. Well it;s 3 or so campaigns later, and it has worked wonderfully.
There are a number of us crazy kids around here. Glad to hear it is working out!
I would say mine is the point system because you have more flexibility and complete control. One of my favorite aspects of RPGs, whether pen and paper or video games, is the ability to shape my character as much as I can. Whether it be picking skill points, choosing feats or determining how many points I want to spend to raise ‘said’ ability score.
With the roll method, it is too random and you lose a lot of control. “Crap, I rolled a 6, where the heck am I going to put that?” Yes, part of the fun sometimes is roleplaying characters with a low ability score, but it’s no fun when you have 3 stats under 10. And with rolls that can sometimes happen.
How about the rest of you?
When GMing, I like point buy but require that no attribute start below 8 after racial modifiers and don't allow the purchase of an 18.
Point buy
or
Every player rolls 4d6 6 times drop the lowest and put it on a list.
Then every player can choose one of these 6-packs and arrange free on stats.
Fair for all!
I have to agree, nobody likes feeling gimped before they even start playing.
I roll with 20 point buy. Though, id be willing to try the rolling method where all the players roll a set and they pick one they all use.