| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I would say mine is the point system because you have more flexibility and complete control. One of my favorite aspects of RPGs, whether pen and paper or video games, is the ability to shape my character as much as I can. Whether it be picking skill points, choosing feats or determining how many points I want to spend to raise ‘said’ ability score.
With the roll method, it is too random and you lose a lot of control. “Crap, I rolled a 6, where the heck am I going to put that?” Yes, part of the fun sometimes is roleplaying characters with a low ability score, but it’s no fun when you have 3 stats under 10. And with rolls that can sometimes happen.
How about the rest of you?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I made them roll 4d6 and toss out the lowest of the 4 die rolls.
Then I make them do that 7 times and they toss out the lowest of those 7 totals.
With the 6 scores you have you sassign them to what ability score you want.
I also give them the option to throw out the whole thing and do it again. But if they take that option they MUST keep the second time around even if its worse.
This makes pretty high score PCs without being that over the top.
Also when a PC levels I let him or her roll the die twice and they take the higher of the 2. If its snake eyes you get a 3rd roll.
Maybe Im to nice?
Currently I'm using 4d6, drop lowest, arrange as you wish - but someday I'll tell my players to roll 3d6 in order :)
One of the best campaigns I played in did this. I had an 8 strength as a monk. It really helped flesh out my character's story, why and how he became a monk.
Give it a try!
My DM really likes Pathfinder, but one of the changes they made he doesn’t like is you now start at a 10 base score instead of 8. And since I think the lowest you can subtract is 4, you can’t go below a 6. To me that is fine, but he is the kind of person who likes the truly low score sometimes. That’s just him.
but someday I'll tell my players to roll 3d6 in order :)
Ugh, no thanks. I had a DM that did that and I think I had one 15 (highest) a 10 and a bunch of 6-8’s. Just really bad rolls.
|
4d6 drop the lowest roll 6 times
You can reroll your lowest score, but if you do you take the result, even if it's a 3 replacing an 11.
If all of your scores add up to less than a +2 total you can reroll the set, but you have to keep the new set again even if it's lower.
My favorite character ever was rolled Iron man. an enchanter that wanted to be a bard.
my favorite has always been 4d6 drop the lowest, there is something special about that series of rolls that means so much for so long. But my group in the last few years has been strictly point buy and for good reason. Aside from the whole what happens if someone rolls really poorly or crazy well, it required either that we make characters in the dm's presence because no one wanted to risk rolling crazy good and the dm not believing the stats are legit. This took alot of time and would end up using up a whole session. Something we dont want to do since we often have difficulty making our schedules line up.
|
|
my favorite has always been 4d6 drop the lowest, there is something special about that series of rolls that means so much for so long. But my group in the last few years has been strictly point buy and for good reason. Aside from the whole what happens if someone rolls really poorly or crazy well, it required either that we make characters in the dm's presence because no one wanted to risk rolling crazy good and the dm not believing the stats are legit. This took alot of time and would end up using up a whole session. Something we dont want to do since we often have difficulty making our schedules line up.
One thing I've done is tell people to know what class and race they want to play before hand, that way they can stat it up before doing their rolls. Then the only things they need to pick when they roll their stats are feats. That way we can have the characters ready to go and I can witness their rolls. Because skills, equipment, and class aren't really dependent on stats as long as you can order them how you like. If you know what you're planning on playing in advance you can throw the stats where needed, heck I've even picked feats before rolling and then just made sure to order my stats so as not to invalidate it.
Point buy, as well. Makes for balanced groups. I'm a bit leery of using the 15 points one, since I prefer the PC's to be a bit more heroic, but I'll probably use it... for my next campaign.
I used a 20 points buy for the current one and I have to adjust the monster all upwards because of it. I'll spare myself the hassle next time around. ^^
|
|
I always liked base 10 for ability scores, used to roll 1d8 and assign.
Now do base 10 and 24 points to assign to any score......Can't get above 18 and can't get below 10.
My group likes being able to have lower than ten stats, although we don't force it, I've had many a player keep a roll of 8 or 9 rather than reroll.
I have my players roll 4d6 drop lowest, six times. I then have them do it again and pick which of the two sets they'd like to play.
It's been my experience that rolling stats is actually more balanced in the long run between optimizer and non-optimizer players as well as between single- and multiple-attribute dependent classes than point buy.
Normally I am a 20 point buy type of DM, but I am contemplating the use of the dice pool option for when I start Kingmaker in August or the Heroic option.
for my game I have the players do the 4d6 method, but I add that the players may reroll 1's and 2's. this way the minimum roll is 9. and occasionally I get a play who will roll a 9.
I like the randomness of the 4d6 method, and really don't like the limitations of the point buy method.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I allow for two methods:
15 point buy.
OR
My homebrew method:
Generating Ability Scores.
Follow the procedure below to generate your ability scores.
1. Roll 3d6 six times.
2. Place scores in order (Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Cha) as rolled.
3. Re-roll any one ability score of your choice, taking the new score if you wish.
4. Swap any two ability scores if you wish.
5. You may start over if the total of all your scores is 62 or less.
This satisfies those in my group who want complete control over character generation, and the others who want to let the dice help them flesh out the character or have some character flaws. Either method guarantees you the option to start with at least an average character. It's a little more complicated than this, but this is the essence of it.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
My favorite method is to allow the players to gain character points by bribing the GM.
However, the actual method I use is the 25pt buy.
We have been using the new system where you take 24d6 and assign a minimum of 3d6 to each stat. A character who wants a high str puts 6d6 to str and takes the highest 3. I'm usually generous and let my players assign 28d6 though.
I allow for two methods:
15 point buy.
OR
My homebrew method:
Generating Ability Scores.
Follow the procedure below to generate your ability scores.
1. Roll 3d6 six times.
2. Place scores in order (Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Cha) as rolled.
3. Re-roll any one ability score of your choice, taking the new score if you wish.
4. Swap any two ability scores if you wish.
5. You may start over if the total of all your scores is 62 or less.This satisfies those in my group who want complete control over character generation, and the others who want to let the dice help them flesh out the character or have some character flaws. Either method guarantees you the option to start with at least an average character. It's a little more complicated than this, but this is the essence of it.
A campaign I'm playing in right now used something similar. It was 4d6, drop lowest, but otherwise the same. We also had to declare race/class before rolling. It's nice to see characters that arn't min maxed. We have a lot of interesting characters that would not normally see the light of day, so there is a lot of flavor. There is the problem that people with good dice rolls have an edge over those who rolled poorly, but if everyone has fun, it's all good.
I normally prefer point buy systems. It keeps everyone on an even footing. Long campaigns where you have sub-par stats and are in a party with walking gods can get irritating, particularly if you are filling similar roles.
my favorite has always been 4d6 drop the lowest, there is something special about that series of rolls that means so much for so long. But my group in the last few years has been strictly point buy and for good reason. Aside from the whole what happens if someone rolls really poorly or crazy well, it required either that we make characters in the dm's presence because no one wanted to risk rolling crazy good and the dm not believing the stats are legit. This took alot of time and would end up using up a whole session. Something we dont want to do since we often have difficulty making our schedules line up.One thing I've done is tell people to know what class and race they want to play before hand, that way they can stat it up before doing their rolls. Then the only things they need to pick when they roll their stats are feats. That way we can have the characters ready to go and I can witness their rolls. Because skills, equipment, and class aren't really dependent on stats as long as you can order them how you like. If you know what you're planning on playing in advance you can throw the stats where needed, heck I've even picked feats before rolling and then just made sure to order my stats so as not to invalidate it.
For my group that isnt going to happen. Your stats will impact what you play. It also greatly impacts your choices of feats and skills. If i wanted to be a trickster rogue but because of my stat roll im not going to have a good charisma, it will impact my overall goals and how i build the character.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I like point buy but my players don't. They like the randomness of rolling stats. Since I don't want to see a stat lower than 6 I have them roll 2D6+6. It gives you a range from 8-18 and a minus -2 to stat gives the lowest score 6 that I'd allow. I find this method generate character about equal to 20 point buy. I also have to approve the rolls and if the stat modifiers are with in 4 of all the players I approve. Nothing worse that having one play roll awesome and the others roll bad. But that's why I prefer point buy.
|
|
for my game I have the players do the 4d6 method, but I add that the players may reroll 1's and 2's. this way the minimum roll is 9. and occasionally I get a play who will roll a 9.
I like the randomness of the 4d6 method, and really don't like the limitations of the point buy method.
As a player who has played characters with a 7 stat, and is currently in a game with a player with a 7 stat, what is so terrible about winding up with less than a nine that makes DMs just let players never wind up with them.
I like point buy but my players don't. They like the randomness of rolling stats. Since I don't want to see a stat lower than 6 I have them roll 2D6+6. It gives you a range from 8-18 and a minus -2 to stat gives the lowest score 6 that I'd allow. I find this method generate character about equal to 20 point buy. I also have to approve the rolls and if the stat modifiers are with in 4 of all the players I approve. Nothing worse that having one play roll awesome and the others roll bad. But that's why I prefer point buy.
That I understand completely, I can wrap my mind around why you shouldn't have a stat below 6 but, I just don't get preventing a stat lower than 9.
|
|
For my group that isnt going to happen. Your stats will impact what you play. It also greatly impacts your choices of feats and skills. If i wanted to be a trickster rogue but because of my stat roll im not going to have a good charisma, it will impact my overall goals and how i build the character.
I don't get that, if you know you want to play a trickster rogue, you need a good dex and a good charisma. I don't think there are any first level feats that require a higher than 13 stat, so you know that whatever you roll you put your highest two in dex and cha. Rolling doesn't change that, so why do you need to know whether it's going to be a 14 in cha or an 18 in cha, either way it's either your highest roll or your second highest roll. How can your stat roll invalidate that unless you roll so terribly that none of your scores is above a 13?
|
How about the rest of you?
Roll 3d6, in order (Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Cha), rerolling 1's
Average the modifiers and compare to the campaign minimum (could be +0, or +1). If the scores don't meet or beat the minimum, the player can reroll for a new set of scores OR can add single ability points to their lowest score until they meet the minimum.
Finally, swap any two scores.
That's my favorite method. We'll probably use it for our upcoming monster-PC mini-campaign. I think this at least partially my own rebellion against the "pick your scores, pick your race, pick your class" mentality. I want to give my players the opportunity to grow their characters in a more organic fashion, rather than just "designing" their "build."
I'm old school like that sometimes.
Generally though, we point buy with 25 points.
-Skeld
I don't get that, if you know you want to play a trickster rogue, you need a good dex and a good charisma. I don't think there are any first level feats that require a higher than 13 stat, so you know that whatever you roll you put your highest two in dex and cha. Rolling doesn't change that, so why do you need to know whether it's going to be a 14 in cha or an 18 in cha, either way it's either your highest roll or your second highest roll. How can your stat roll invalidate that unless you roll so terribly that none of your scores is above a 13?
What about int? Con? My group are definately optimizers, so if you dont end up with the stats to play some of the more multiability dependant concepts, you play something else or you will certainly be overshadowed. That is why we have moved to point buy.
For example, a trickster rogue needs Dex(duh), Int(have enough skills), Char(important for bluff, and such), and Con(need the hitpoints to survive combat). If you get a 18, 16, 10, 7, 8, suddenly that makes things much harder. And since we optimize, monsters and npc's are optimized as well, so if you dont have a good charisma, dont expect to have a good chance of succeeding on bluffing or sleight of handing an important npc. That player would invariably end up playing something more single ability score dependant, like a wizard or a fighter.
|
|
I don't get that, if you know you want to play a trickster rogue, you need a good dex and a good charisma. I don't think there are any first level feats that require a higher than 13 stat, so you know that whatever you roll you put your highest two in dex and cha. Rolling doesn't change that, so why do you need to know whether it's going to be a 14 in cha or an 18 in cha, either way it's either your highest roll or your second highest roll. How can your stat roll invalidate that unless you roll so terribly that none of your scores is above a 13?What about int? Con? My group are definately optimizers, so if you dont end up with the stats to play some of the more multiability dependant concepts, you play something else or you will certainly be overshadowed. That is why we have moved to point buy.
For example, a trickster rogue needs Dex(duh), Int(have enough skills), Char(important for bluff, and such), and Con(need the hitpoints to survive combat). If you get a 18, 16, 10, 7, 8, suddenly that makes things much harder. And since we optimize, monsters and npc's are optimized as well, so if you dont have a good charisma, dont expect to have a good chance of succeeding on bluffing or sleight of handing an important npc. That player would invariably end up playing something more single ability score dependant, like a wizard or a fighter.
What does a trickster rogue need int for, 8+ SP and can use favored class for 9+ and no relevant abilities fueled by int (unless you're planning on taking the duelist PrC) Um you missed a stat roll, lets make it 13, so we have an 18, 16, 13, 10, 8, 7
Lets assume since we've picked our race before rolling (lets go with human or half-something). Now I want to make a trickster rogue. Well, i'll put 18 in dex, 16 in Cha, 13 in Con, 10 in str, 8 in int (using Favored class SP to take away the lost SP from int), and 7 in wisdom. Now I have a +2 to either put into Str to give myself a damage bonus, or int to shore up my int neg so that I have 9 SP a level, perfectly good trickster rogue built with the stats you randomly gave me. with class and race determined beforehand. that way all I have to do is either add or subtract a SP or two and I could have picked my equipment beforehand, and even my feats.
What does a trickster rogue need int for, 8+ SP and can use favored class for 9+ and no relevant abilities fueled by int (unless you're planning on taking the duelist PrC) Um you missed a stat roll, lets make it 13, so we have an 18, 16, 13, 10, 8, 7
Lets assume since we've picked our race before rolling (lets go with human or half-something). Now I want to make a trickster rogue. Well, i'll put 18 in dex, 16 in Cha, 13 in Con, 10 in str, 8 in int (using Favored class SP to take away the lost SP from int), and 7 in wisdom. Now I have a +2 to either put into Str to give myself a damage bonus, or int to shore up my int neg so that I have 9 SP a level, perfectly workable trickster rogue built with the stats you randomly gave me.
Its workable, but workable generally doesnt cut it in our group. Besides of the 3 players that regularly play rogues in my group, none have ever had less then a 14 int.
Mind you also that this change (and the example of a trickster rogue switching) happened in 3.5 not pathfinder, where int was extremely important particulary for skills like search, and disable device. So int needed to be high as well. Pathfinder has far less problems in the way of MAD so maybe the changeover is no longer needed, but for my group at least it has made things so much smoother we arent likely going back.
I use a different method that I came up with, mainly because I had a player who in front of two DMs rolled two 18s and the rest 17. She had stats like this all the time and could do it using your dice, and a dice-cup.
I give four players each a d6. I then hold a box up over their heads and have them all drop the d6 into the box. I reroll any 1 or 2s. I continue this until I have six scores. If there are more than four players then they switch who rolls the d6 into the box.
I then tell the players the scores, and they place them however they want and use the racial modifiers.
My players like this method because it allows everyone to have comparable stats, and no one can cheat, or be very lucky.
What about int? Con? My group are definately optimizers, so if you dont end up with the stats to play some of the more multiability dependant concepts, you play something else or you will certainly be overshadowed. That is why we have moved to point buy.For example, a trickster rogue needs Dex(duh), Int(have enough skills), Char(important for bluff, and such), and Con(need the hitpoints to survive combat). If you get a 18, 16, 10, 7, 8, suddenly that makes things much harder. And since we optimize, monsters and npc's are optimized as well, so if you dont have a good charisma, dont expect to have a good chance of succeeding on bluffing or sleight of handing an important npc. That player would invariably end up playing something more single ability score dependant, like a wizard or a fighter.
But even in the wizard and fighter cases, you have other stats you want other than just Int or Str, respectively. Both still want the Con for hp, Dex for better initiatives, AC, ranged attacks, and Ref saves, and the fighter should certainly want some Wis to shore up his Will save. Those desires are every bit as valid as the trickster rogue wanting to have good Cha, Int, and Con. So it's not really a case of 4 stats vs 1, it's more like 2 vs 1. Either way, you have choices to make.
One reason I prefer dice rolling is there's a bit more balance between those multiple and single stat concepts. Under point buy, the single stat concept will probably buy up their main stat to something within reach of 18+. That'll probably have them pulling away from the multistat concept. When you roll, most cases will probably (depending on your stat gen specifics) top out around 16.
Sure, there are outliers from time to time, but being outliers, they're rare.
I used to use the 4d6 drop lowest idea, but what tended to happen (and I can see I'm not alone by reading some of the above posts) is that there tended to be a big difference between the character with the best stats and the character with the worst.
So, then we start making rules about allowing them to reroll if it's too low or making rules that we re-roll 1s etc.
But really, once you've gone through this increasingly complex set of rules to generate scores "fairly" you end up that everyone has a very narrow range of possible scores almost all of the time.
So - I now just cut out the middle man and use point buy. Players can make their characters without me "witnessing" their rolls and I know everyone has equivalent power.
Since I'm now running through a couple different APs we've been using the 15 point buy since that's what they're made for and I don't need to scale up the encounters.
Maybe I'm just getting old, but I remember rolling 3d6 in order for stats. IIRC, the reroll rule was if It really forced you to roleplay your character since it was entirely possible to have a rogue with a dex of 10. Anyone who had a single 16 or better was "godlike".
Of course, these were also the days when level 1 wizards had 2 hp (roll 1d4 and usually a con bonus of 0) and 0 hp meant you were dead. Things were certainly a lot more dangerous.
4d6, reroll ones, drop the lowest. Depending on the game, I'll have the players roll a set of three and choose the best out of the set. (This allows me to take the gloves off as a GM, particularly at early levels. Heh heh. >:D )
I used to use the 4d6 drop lowest idea, but what tended to happen (and I can see I'm not alone by reading some of the above posts) is that there tended to be a big difference between the character with the best stats and the character with the worst.
So, then we start making rules about allowing them to reroll if it's too low or making rules that we re-roll 1s etc.
But really, once you've gone through this increasingly complex set of rules to generate scores "fairly" you end up that everyone has a very narrow range of possible scores almost all of the time.
So - I now just cut out the middle man and use point buy.
This sums my experience up in a nutshell.
The method for Society play is not too bad for a point buy. However, I like the variation that randomization brings. Currently we are in a 28D6 pool with no ability below a 3d6. It creates some characters that are not really optimal, and even some fun variations. (I ended up with a Druid having a 9 Dex and 17 Int even though one was a minor focus and the other was a basic dump.)
The house rule we have is if one person does REALLY good, then the rest of the group members are allowed to "Copy" that persons rolls. This prevents the "Superman" condition that you some times get with random rolls.
Usually 4d6, Drop Lowest, reroll all 1s, repeat six times and arrange as you like.
The last time we did point buy was in 3.5 and I believe we used 30-point (same as Neverwinter Nights, if 30 is wrong).
For my character in a current Play-by-Post game the DM didn't even bother, just said "assign stats you think are appropriate". Fairly easy to do since I'd written stories for the character before and had a fairly good concept of her capabilities and weaknesses. (Woo 8 Wisdom, reckless Hellbred....) But then again we all trust each other pretty much, and nobody in the group went and gave their characters insane stats - Karish has low WIS and barely-above average CON, the monk has gimped CHA and average INT, and the bard has average WIS and STR.
I use 15 point buy. It's the standard, and generally prevents Supercharacters. You still have access to a stat of 20, but it'll cost ya.
|
I like the method that my last GM and I came up with. It's basically "point buy rolling".
He likes the idea of rolling stats (in order), because it can lead to neat stat arrangement and wacky fun. I hated the idea of rolling stats, because you are far more likely to get horribly screwed than you are to get something super awesome, and having one person with super awesome stats while you have crap stats is not fun.
So we, through multiple iterations, eventually settled on a compromise that we both liked.
1) Roll 2d4+6, in order. These are your "starting" stats, and you cannot subtract from them (except through race, which isn't applied yet).
For example: 13, 11, 9, 12, 10, 11.
2) Go through point buy normally, but using your starting stats as the minimum value.
For Example: say 15 point buy. The base stats are good for any melee guy, though the Int suggests a class that could use skills more than a Fighter. Lets go with Barbarian, raise Dex to 12, Con to 14; checking the totals, that's 2+5+2+0+1=10, plus at least 3 for the 13 str. Unfortunately, there's only 2 points left, which need to go into strength, so the final character looks like 14, 12, 14, 12, 10, 11 - functional for a barbarian, but not min-maxed, with a little chaos thrown in.
3) apply race, levels, class, etc etc.
28 point buy.
I allow for two methods:
15 point buy.
OR
My homebrew method:
Generating Ability Scores.
Follow the procedure below to generate your ability scores.
1. Roll 3d6 six times.
2. Place scores in order (Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Cha) as rolled.
3. Re-roll any one ability score of your choice, taking the new score if you wish.
4. Swap any two ability scores if you wish.
5. You may start over if the total of all your scores is 62 or less.This satisfies those in my group who want complete control over character generation, and the others who want to let the dice help them flesh out the character or have some character flaws. Either method guarantees you the option to start with at least an average character. It's a little more complicated than this, but this is the essence of it.
A campaign I'm playing in right now used something similar. It was 4d6, drop lowest, but otherwise the same. We also had to declare race/class before rolling. It's nice to see characters that arn't min maxed. We have a lot of interesting characters that would not normally see the light of day, so there is a lot of flavor. There is the problem that people with good dice rolls have an edge over those who rolled poorly, but if everyone has fun, it's all good.
I normally prefer point buy systems. It keeps everyone on an even footing. Long campaigns where you have sub-par stats and are in a party with walking gods can get irritating, particularly if you are filling similar roles.
Spoilered to not derail the thread:
|
|
I hated rolling for stats back in 1980, HATED it!
Thank god things evolved. Point buy, of whatever scale, is all I'll do.
I've walked away from campaigns when told I had to roll for stats.
That's funny, I hate point buy HATE it
Thank god very few DMs I know try to use it, Rolling dice on any system is all I do.
I've haven't walked away because someone told me I had to use point buy, but it sets the tone in the beginning that almost never gets better.
PS I get the same tone when someone says "take a set amount of HP each level" or similar.
The last normal campaign I joined has us roll 2d4 + 10.
We came up with some pretty strong PC's that way. I was a Human building for Eldritch Knight and managed to pull the following scores.
-
-
-
S:18
D:16
C:14
I:17
W:12
C:10
Not too shabby.
I added my +2 human bonus to con to raise it to 16, and added my level 4 point to int.
For my own campaigns I tend to run point buy. The larger the party the fewer points they get. So a group of 6 to 8 uses 15 points. A group of 4 uses 25 points.
Before I evolved to point buy, I ran the following system.
5d6, Drop your lowest two.
If you rolled 4 sixes, treat the score as a 19. Roll 5, it's a 20.
Made strong PC's, but less min-maxed than my 25 point buy players, I've noticed.