Ok, The title says it all. I'd like to start a PBP campaign for PF in Golarion, most likely a modified AP. I've read the sticky discussion on the subject, looked at Myth-Weaver and other sites etc. I've used CC2, and I like to add those elements to my games.
Now...
Where to begin? And I need brass tacks info here: step 1, step 2, etc. The time commitment is not a problem, neither is the longevity issue. (my Shackled City took us 2 years, my RotRL is on 1.5) I am looking for the RP out there, I just don't get it with my current group of 12+.
Any help is appreciated.
<takes deep breath, clicks submit...>
Good luck. As I have seen suggested before, I think recruiting is important. Do not just take the first X number of people who post a build. Set a number of players you would like. Explain the type of game you want to run and what sort of characters you would like to see. Review some of the posts from people who make submissions and see if they jibe with your own personality.
I was in the same boat as you about 3 weeks back. I'd only been playing pbp for a couple of months, and I came across a couple of people who were new to playing and couldn't get into a game - so I thought 'why not give it a go?'
As far as advice goes, it's probably more observations. The usual stuff about know your game system and adventure. If you've played before you'll know the rate that pbp moves at. I decided to lay out the type of game I was hoping to run so *I* would enjoy it, then I asked the players to chat amongst themselves to come up with a compatible group. In my opinion, it is worth taking a bit of time to get this part right, so hopefully there are less drop outs because 'it wasn't the sort of game I was looking for'.
The flipside of the slow pace is that you don't have to make it up on the fly (or rather you have more time to consider it). I have arbitrarily decided on a couple of occasions to 'move the group along' to stop it getting bogged down, and have also been replying fairly quickly if one of the players keeps the action going, and it doesn't absolutely require all the players to have their say.
Oh, and I also deliberately capped the group at 3, partly because that was the size of face to face group I wanted to run for, and partly so we could get some momentum up, You may be online most of the day but you have to decide what to do with players who don't post (there's a separate thread on this very topic somewhere) - setting a minimum post rate in the recruitment might help so people are aware of your expectations in advance.
Struggling to think of anything else, other than enjoy. I've been gaming for the best part of 30 years, and would play 99 games out of 100 given the chance. But I am really enjoying my game so far, largely due to having found a great group of players who have taken to it like ducks to water.
Good luck!
1. Set up discussion forum. Call for players, get overwhelmed.
2. Settle on 4-? who answered first, and promise to check in regularly.
Smaller groups are easier, just as in tabletop play.
3. Explain point-buy, other rules for set-up; starting gold, traits, particular rules for your campaign, etc. Once everyone's on board and submitted characters, bought their toys, etc., and met with your approval, start the game. It's easiest to start off with characters already knowing each other, and agreeing to work together. That will save you hundreds of posts. Gathering the group is fun, but it takes a looooong time. I like to get to some action going, asap.
4. I've been itching to play, so consider this my application! I wanna play an arcane trickster, but I'm flexible.
5. You'll solve problems and streamline things as you go along. No need to feel overwhelmed. Good on you for stepping up and giving it a try!
Thanks for the help so far.
<Gruffle> If you don't mind, might I pick your brain for do's and dont's? Brief list I guess.
I've been following some of the threads of those top-rated GMs who have some longevity. Great stuff, and really gets me going to do this.
Sure, although some of the 'old hands' would have more good suggestions from their own experience - CF's advice about recruitment and checking out posting/play style is very good, although I didn't have that luxury with novice players.
I've yet to hit some things which will force me to make new decisions. Combat is the main one as in all the games I am currently playing I've yet to get into a fight! Do I or I don't I use a map, for example?
I didn't really have a proper recruitment thread because I answered a player's post (and that thread has now been tidied away by the Paizo gnomes) and then replied to a couple of other similar pleas, before it all came together.
Once I'd got my 3 players, this was/is the OOC thread:
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/community/gaming/playByPostDiscussion/ gruffleheadsLeapOfFaithOOC
And here's the game thread if you want to see how it's going:
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/community/gaming/playByPost/grufflehea dsSummerHolidayGameIC
I notice you've also done some investigations on where to run a pbp (as did I). Different places offer different features (some of which involve more/less work for you). I offered my players alternatives, but in the end we decided to stay here as it has all of features you need - there are a couple of things it would be nice to have like PMs and more post formatting options, but as you can see from the PbP forum, plenty of people are happy with the options available.
Oh, just remembered - take a look at the first post on Giant in the Playground's pbp forum, particularly Appendix II, the '16 questions'. Can help narrow the field a lot before you start.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46074
This and this are both threads with a lot of useful information on running pbp games. They're probably the ones Grufflehead was referring to.
If you have an specific questions, ask. I GM 4e which makes maps a must have, but there are varied schools of thought on how valuable they are for 3.5 or PFRPG.
Echoing Benecio above:
Call for new players in the Gamer Connection forum. Describe your goals for the campaign, play-style, character creation. Posting frequency is especially important. Some games struggle along on one post per player per week; others two or three, a day. Sort through the replies and determine your chosen few there. Some DMs have players submit concepts; others fully generated characters .
Regarding posting frequency -- I think less than 1 a day from players leads to loss of enthusiasm. But you've got to be ready to post 2 or 3 times more frequently than the players. You won't always have to, and if you've got a good group there will be days when you won't have to post at all while they converse, but you've got to be ready to.
In one of the threads Rev Rosey posted, Aubrey (the great and mighty) mentions dropping the third game he was running for lack of time. Don't think because PbP is done in little bites that running a game won't take time. It will. For the DM 3 posts at 10 minutes each per day adds up to 3.5 hours per week. (To save time: Always {cntrl}A{cntrl}C before submitting your post. Long DM style posts get eaten more frequently than player size posts. It really sucks to retype that masterpiece of prose.)
I've been running one game for a couple years now. A few months ago I added a second game and it's burying me. And I thought I knew what I was getting into.
Then start the OOC (out of character or discussion) thread in the PbP Discussion forum.
As someone who contributed to one of the threads mentioned above, I would echo what I said on that board - and add that you should be ready to play when you advertise.
Players get excited, do what you ask to be selected and then...want to start. You have the momentum then - so use it. If you ask them to wait a couple of weeks, don't be surprised if one or two drop out.
When I join a game, I point the GM in the direction of a game I'm already playing in to make sure he knows what he's getting. As a GM, why not insist on it?
I'll keep adding stuff over the next few days regardless, but if you have any questions, post away. People are more than willing to help out.
Ive read those threads, as well as the Giant thread. I'm fairly certain one thing that won't happen, and that's rush into this. I believe these things are a commitment just as a tabletop game is. That being said, a couple of questions:
1. What are some people's experiences/uses of the OOC thread?
2. What seems to be the prefered combat style? I'm a map and mini guy, just based on the size of my f2f group.
3. What about die rolling? Ok, that was a test, but what prefered rolling conventions?
I believe these things are a commitment just as a tabletop game is.
That was my attitude too. If you can get committed players too, you're a long way to making it work.
As far as dice rolling, the roller here is fine. If you need more than X d Y + Z then consider something like Invisible Castle
I've use the roller here for games I'm playing in, but I home roll my monsters. I've had too many bad experiences with page long posts getting eaten and spending up to an hour moving and rolling monsters for it all to vanish is bad for my blood pressure.
I think you do have to be ruthless as a pbp GM. There will be lulls in all games, but it's pretty much your job to make sure those lulls don't turn stagnant. If in doubt, move it on.
I'm draconian about the 24 hour rule for the most part. Once or twice people have had a grace period for a few extra hours, but I can honestly say that it's happened only a handful of times over something like five completed adventures in the last 18 months.
For 4e maps are a must have. So many 4e powers are absolutely dependent on knowing where anyone is at any given time. As a player under several systems I really like them, but I've also played in a couple of fantastic games that never had a map, just used great descriptions. They were rare though.
Ok, The title says it all. I'd like to start a PBP campaign for PF in Golarion, most likely a modified AP. I've read the sticky discussion on the subject, looked at Myth-Weaver and other sites etc. I've used CC2, and I like to add those elements to my games.
Now...
Where to begin? And I need brass tacks info here: step 1, step 2, etc. The time commitment is not a problem, neither is the longevity issue. (my Shackled City took us 2 years, my RotRL is on 1.5) I am looking for the RP out there, I just don't get it with my current group of 12+.
Any help is appreciated.
<takes deep breath, clicks submit...>
Hi Old Guy GM!
You sound like you are covering a lot of the issues well already. In addition to the fine advice you have received here, I will add one further thing: Be not afraid to cull non-posting players.
I currently run four different PbPs on the boards, and very few of the players in them now started the games. PbP players leave for a number of reasons: A change in free time, family issues, lack of enthusiasm, etc. etc. You need as the GM to monitor this closely and maintain a good OOC dialog. You should make sure to ask them to post any long absences in OOC.
Once you get the game going and if it is going well you will be able to recruit replacements for drop-outs. The worst drag on a PbP is a player (or GM) that doesn't update in a timely fashion. It can become a cancer if you leave a game hanging for someone to respond.
That was my attitude too. If you can get committed players too, you're a long way to making it work.
The main reason I was asking you specifically about picking your brain was the fact that you ARE new to this. I am following (to the best of my ability) the threads of the best, but I figure they might be busy enough already. Also, I figure that comparing notes with another new person is comparing apples to apples. I'm probably not getting my point across well enough, certainly everyone has been more than helpful.
I think you do have to be ruthless as a pbp GM. There will be lulls in all games, but it's pretty much your job to make sure those lulls don't turn stagnant. If in doubt, move it on.
I'm draconian about the 24 hour rule for the most part. Once or twice people have had a grace period for a few extra hours, but I can honestly say that it's happened only a handful of times over something like five completed adventures in the last 18 months.
I am in agreement with this. I run a bunch in f2f (13 last night), and I have to be ruthless to keep that quagmire moving. My main concern was getting players to agree to that with a relatively "unknown" GM. My f2f group has been together for 20+ years, they (and now their kids) know what's expected.
Be not afraid to cull non-posting players.
Same thoughts as above.
Mechanics question: I get the bold, dice roller, italics to work. How do I get the color change? Example, light blue text in Aubrey's threads.
I doubt you'd have a problem with players accepting a firm posting deadline if you state at the outset that this is what you want to do and enforce it.
One good side-effect is that the players know that if they have to miss a day posting, they won't be bogging down the game. Everybody wins.
EDIT: Culling the non-posting is a tougher call and only you will really be able to judge when you have to do it. I've tended to find places to drop non-posters out along the way. Towns all over Fantasyland are littered with pcs in limbo.
"Ah, I think I left the gas on...." said Aldred the Bold after being silent for some time.
Not sure how much more help I can be but fire away with any other questions and I (and others I'm sure) will try to answer them.
Never did actually find out if you'd played pbp before?
Not sure how much more help I can be but fire away with any other questions and I (and others I'm sure) will try to answer them.
Never did actually find out if you'd played pbp before?
Nope, looked into several games, but all the ones I'm interested in are full and/or have a backlog of players. Thought that I'd just jump right and run one rather than be disappointed by games that never get off the ground. Maybe the wrong frame of mind there.
Given my relative inexperience I'm not quite sure *how* to do this, but if we can, would you be interested in some sort of 'guest' co-GM type slot in mine?
I asked my players if they wanted a fourth, and they were quite happy to stick to 3 for now. BUT, there are plenty of NPCs who could play a part, and you could run one (or more of them) for a short burst to see how you find it.
Given my relative inexperience I'm not quite sure *how* to do this, but if we can, would you be interested in some sort of 'guest' co-GM type slot in mine?
I asked my players if they wanted a fourth, and they were quite happy to stick to 3 for now. BUT, there are plenty of NPCs who could play a part, and you could run one (or more of them) for a short burst to see how you find it.
Absolutely. I've done this before (not in pbp), and had guest GMs in my campaigns. The way I've worked it is to give the basics of the NPC: personality, motivations, etc. This can be as simple or as complex as I want, depending on the NPC. Then I have a simple discussion with my guest as to where I want the scene or scenes to go. I try to provide a guide for the guest GM to work with, then let them go. Actually, I think this would be easier in pbp, because if in doubt, I can ask you before I post something. In f2f, there isn't always that time. I would suggest some minor npc to start, to see if you are comfortable with it.
You've been given lots of good advice. Out of curiosity, which games have you been following? Maybe the GMs for those can give you more info pertaining to their games.
You've been given lots of good advice. Out of curiosity, which games have you been following? Maybe the GMs for those can give you more info pertaining to their games.
Some of the old, some of the new...Right now I'm reading - from the beginning - Aubrey's Eberron and RotRL. RotRL also 'cause I'm running it f2f! This way I can see where and how he keeps it moving, charts his combats, etc. Because I'm familiar with RotRL, it's been very insightful. Takes a ton of time to get caught up in both of those.
Gruffleheads game as well. Trying to see how someone who is (basically) starting out like me is handling it. Seems Gruffle' did much of the same research that I am doing, so it's an apples to apples comparison for me.
If I missed the advice posted already I'm about to give - sorry...
Don't underestimate the resources on the boards. I'm running ROTR and there are so many maps and handouts on that game's thread you wouldn't believe. It makes GMing encounters really easy.
Oh, and I've been playing/GMing since about October and my count is:
Played 9; still running 3 (one seems a little unwell though); died 6
GMed 1; still running 1
None of the games ended due to player inactivity...
2 of my 3 players have replied, and they are both very happy to have you involved in some way so let's do it.
You've picked a good time to come in - they're just about to enter a small town, and then off to a festival with games and feasting so lots of NPCs to choose from.
Want to have a chat by e-mail rather than clog up the boards? You can reach me at my username @ yahoo dot co dot uk
2 of my 3 players have replied, and they are both very happy to have you involved in some way so let's do it.
You've picked a good time to come in - they're just about to enter a small town, and then off to a festival with games and feasting so lots of NPCs to choose from.
Want to have a chat by e-mail rather than clog up the boards? You can reach me at my username @ yahoo dot co dot uk
Sent email, and thanks!!