Then herald Mr. Fishy's cult,
>Mr. Fishy Appoints Urizen offical HERALD of FISHYNESS<
Go forth and spead the word of Mr. Fishy.
Sweet! Urizen is an apostle of Mr. Fishy! I must prepare...
Something smells…(wait for it)…fishy.
Makes you salivate, poochy?
Makes you salivate, poochy?
No. I want to roll in it!
Okay, I've always thought that the tarrasque was a unique creature. How exactly do tarrasques reproduce?Mr. Fishy tapped that. Mr. Fishy is tired.
Fixed
Fixed
Okay, I've always thought that the tarrasque was a unique creature. How exactly do tarrasques reproduce?Mr. Fishy tapped that. Mr. Fishy is tired.
Mr. Fishy has herculean prowess.
Mr. Fishy has herculean prowess.Fixed
Okay, I've always thought that the tarrasque was a unique creature. How exactly do tarrasques reproduce?Mr. Fishy tapped that. Mr. Fishy is tired.
I have trouble sleeping at night now that I've seen that.
I have trouble sleeping at night now that I've seen that.Mr. Fishy has herculean prowess.Fixed
Okay, I've always thought that the tarrasque was a unique creature. How exactly do tarrasques reproduce?Mr. Fishy tapped that. Mr. Fishy is tired.
Poor Chompers. :(
Poor Chompers.
I generally want to agree with this, but unfortunately, some people's idea of having fun is being a dick to others.I don't think the DM should diminish the fun the players are having, or allow the fun he has running the game to be diminished.
That's my fortune cookie line for the day.
That's why he shouldn't diminish the fun the players are having. It's supposed to be recursive.
I also have a list of things DMs I play with aren't allowed to do, but that's different. One of them is "Use a single caster as a boss". :D
Because I have a habit of helping out my fellow players strategically, and I usually end up mopping up any caster within 100 feet in one round with a combined effort. They have no health, so the barbarian closes to melee, the cleric casts sound burst, and the rouge runs over to backstab position. Even without winning initiative, we win with a very basic strategy. And that's only three party members. A lot of group I've played with have around six.
Most of them now throw some minions in to stem the PC tide, give the caster a round to buff. I did make a caster a substatial boss with a bottleneck, summon swarm, grease and levitate, but that was him getting two spells off before the PCs went, and that just goes to show how silly you need to be to take on a bunch by yourself.
That and it could be related to the fact that every caster I've ever faced has been cheatsy, so I grapple them to death in their own spells. Even as a cleric. Fair's fair after all. In 3.5, you have an easy time concentrating, I have an easy time grabbing you and punching you to death.
Also it's good to see I'm not the only one up at stupid in the morning.
Because I have a habit of helping out my fellow players strategically, and I usually end up mopping up any caster within 100 feet in one round with a combined effort. They have no health, so the barbarian closes to melee, the cleric casts sound burst, and the rouge runs over to backstab position. Even without winning initiative, we win with a very basic strategy. And that's only three party members. A lot of group I've played with have around six.
Most of them now throw some minions in to stem the PC tide, give the caster a round to buff. I did make a caster a substatial boss with a bottleneck, summon swarm, grease and levitate, but that was him getting two spells off before the PCs went, and that just goes to show how silly you need to be to take on a bunch by yourself.
That and it could be related to the fact that every caster I've ever faced has been cheatsy, so I grapple them to death in their own spells. Even as a cleric. Fair's fair after all. In 3.5, you have an easy time concentrating, I have an easy time grabbing you and punching you to death.
Also it's good to see I'm not the only one up at stupid in the morning.
That's pretty interesting. Does your GM ever pull anything really dirty with the caster, like having him invisible, flying, with illusions layered around the place while he save or loses you guys, or just hits you with flat lose no save spells?
And about stupid in the morning, wish I had a choice, I gave my word on a couple things (a redesign of a 3.5 prestige class and familiarizing myself with you guys PC's for the PbP)
Also, you should know I replied to the Serial Killer thread, incase you were curious.
He usually has him monologuing, being a GM I humor him, and then he tries something cute, like dominating one party member first turn. We just completely ignore it and bum rush him.
Another one was a sorceror I talked my way into seeing. He just got the crap kicked out of him in his own office. It was kind of sad, really, considering he was level 8 and we were level 3's.
The only one with prep time cast globe of invulnerability and fly on himself. The monk flying grappled him out of the air and my behest and then it was just a beat down.
Really, his strategy wasn't that good, but what you described is more like something I would do. I did that with a summoner for a playtest and mother of pearl did he cream the PCs. Didn't even need to fly or summon creatures, just let them lay into his eidolon and get taken out in one turn by it while he was safely invisible. I did a similar thing with a red dragon fight in lava. Although my players claim that fight was dirty because the draggie had substituted his breath with cold. Let's just say they came very close to losing that fight after the dragon took three rounds in lava to buff up, coming out with cold resistance, mirror image and scintilating scales.
Duly noted. I will be done with my equipment list shortly, although I may just say screw it, I have 100 gp because dungeons and accounting is really getting to me.
Yeah, I've run into that too, GM's who don't really make full use of an NPC's abilities, get wrapped up in the whole 'direct confrontation' deal. It never works well in my experience.
And yeah, I hate the little nitpicky stuff of gearing up for a low level adventure, I'm much more comfortable picking up stuff for starting around level 6 or 8
It's more funny than anything. Big, climactic fight, the wizard gets off one spell and then gets owned.
I like low level. I do. I just don't like going through all my crap with a calculator after I've finally decided what I want. High level is really bad for that.
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(The DM allowed me NO say in this entire thing whatsoever) Well basically what happened was that our group made their way into the underdark cleared a few rooms and then we ended the session so we went back to the entrance (outside the entrance to the under dark) sealed the entrance there so no baddies would come and crawl up on us then we made another wall using stoneshape to further prevent them from getting to us on either side. A pretty good defense for a few hours rest I think... but the DM decided that a cr 20+ baddie was going to come attack us and it magically phased through the walls an killed every player except for my barbarian. I was also running and EK which I much preferred to the barbarian. The cleric and rogue player wanted to reroll so they were fine with dying and im ok with that to an extent. So I said well my EK just uses Ddoor to gtfo, and the DM said antimagic field, and I said thats only a 10ft magic radius and he says well... in 3.5 there are artifacts that span an entire metropolis with anti magic field. Ok fair enough I suppose, so I said well they just run away, but wrong again turns out that a bunch of drow who were ""spying" on us from the previous rooms that we completely cleared TWICE, can see through walls and somehow magically sealed the only escape route we had. THEN he said well your barbarian wakes up in the forest he lives in with no memory of what just happened, and I was like well I want to get my memory back so I tried to get a sorcerer to dispel magic on me thinking it may have been a magic effect, NOPE. I then went to a temple and got healed NOPE they even used the spell HEAL, so then I went to the mages guild to do research on a monster that could do such a thing and I didn't find anything. The DM says that this is a perfectly legit call, but I say otherwise...
Whoa. This one time... at band camp.
Seriously though, your DM is trash. Scrap him and find a new one that's not an idiot.
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Agree and disagree.
Sometimes, a narrative will need 'off camera' time with the PC's. This sometimes takes the form of "Bob the Cleric has spread the gospel of his faith far and wide during the intervening months" or "Joe the Fighter has begun levying taxes on the people of his fiefdom" In this case, taking control of basic character actions is OK in my book. Off camera character deaths are so uncool.
No survival options? Kobiashi Maru. That's all I have to say about that. A well thought out escape should be its own reward.
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No survival options? Kobiashi Maru. That's all I have to say about that. A well thought out escape should be its own reward.If we carry that comparison to its conclusion, there's only one solution - punch the DM in the face, take over his game, and give yourself a way out.
That's what Kirk would do! And therefore, it's a moral imperative.
1. Never get involved in a land war in Asia.
2. Never go against a Sicilian when death is on the line.
I generally want to agree with this, but unfortunately, some people's idea of having fun is being a dick to others.I don't think the DM should diminish the fun the players are having, or allow the fun he has running the game to be diminished.
That's my fortune cookie line for the day.
That's why he shouldn't diminish the fun the players are having. It's supposed to be recursive.
I had in mind players on both sides of the GM's screen. Perhaps you've had the good fortune to have never played with a group of gaming sado-masochists.
Perhaps you've had the good fortune to have never played with a group of gaming sado-masochists.
That arranged can be.
Thanks, I've had very little, and that was more than enough.
I disagree with that. I didn't come to the game for the GM to tell me what my character does. What if I didn't want to preach 'the word' or if I had no intentions of acquiring a fiefdom, or if instead of taxes all I want from my fiefdom is for them to personally prosper and help me build the realm into something great?Agree and disagree.
Sometimes, a narrative will need 'off camera' time with the PC's. This sometimes takes the form of "Bob the Cleric has spread the gospel of his faith far and wide during the intervening months" or "Joe the Fighter has begun levying taxes on the people of his fiefdom" In this case, taking control of basic character actions is OK in my book.
To be fair, I've done things like that... When the PCs give me nothing. No motives, no backstory, no actions, nothing. It's supposed to get them more involved by showing them all the awesome stuff they can do.
Unfortunately it can also be a double edged sword. Some players end up relying on it from my end, and I won't always be there to deliver...
1. Confuse hamsters for dice, even if the hamsters have spots. No good ever comes of that.
2. Bring a fistful of Cheetos behind the DM's Screen during some moment of tension and drama. It cannot possibly end well.
1. Get over-excited, wave their hands about and tip a mug of coffee over the one and only set of carefully crafted monster stats mid-encounter.
2. Turn over two pages at once and inadvertently miss out most of the vital plot points.
On a more serious note
1. Expect players to be able to read your mind.
2. Punish players for not being able to do this thing.
Hmm; I dont know that I agree on your second one; have my own list of what a GM shouldnt do.
I would not put my players in a situation they cannot win; but they often can put themselves into a situation where they are going to lose.
One big problem a GM has is putting a little fear or intimidation into the game; most players have Ego Armor eight feet thick and think they are always going to win and never take a setback; and that just is not life or life in my game. I have noticed over the years that players often make things harder on themselves by not sharing information and getting distracted and pulling more than they can handle. I dont consider myself a "killer GM" by any means; but if your sneaking through the swamp and see a sleeping black dragon and not his two friends and decide to attack; well, is that the GM's Fault? now sure; swamps are the most dangerous place in D&D; more encounter rolls and a very tough encounter table; sheesh; think my pc's fought every kind of were pack there is in the swamp with the exception of weresharks.
Pc's gotta know when to run; when to fight; when to take a hit and keep their mouths shut and when to take charge and on like that; that is all part of the game; like life; you disrepect the wrong people with a lot of attitude and you can suddenly have all kinds of problems. All I can say is players often get themselves into things that not even I had any idea was coming.
as for taking control of pc's well, when you have a game planned and someone doesnt show up and doesnt call to say there not coming and they leave the other pc's in the lurch and something happens to them; well; tough; but I always take good care of polite people who call and say something happened and they cant make it and give me a few actions their character would do; cant say this has ever been a problem in my game or any game I have been in. I do have a real problem with GM's who set a background that is not nice then kick you out of the game for not playing a nice character; like I could have made another character; but no; attack the player not the character; those gm's bug me. A player should be able to play a character any way they want and have in game consequences for the character; not gm attacking the player. This kind of GM taking control intervention is totally wrong.
The top two things I believe a DM should never do are the following
1. Take control of the players characters, as a DM yeah you have all the power in the world literally... you created it. Just don't tell a player his character fought a cr 20 creature and died, when the player wasn't even allowed to have any say in it whatsoever.
2. Rule number two don't ever put your players in a situation that basically has no chance of survival, ESPECIALLY if they weren't doing anything stupid to deserve it. Like really?
Do you guys agree with me or what?
Also list some other things you think DMs should NEVER do.
I always try to build my scenarios as a puzzle; here is the scenario; as it unfolds; can you accomplish the goal; if you can; big exps; if you do most of it; still good exps; if you try all kinds of stuff and still cant do it; still good exps; if you dont try and fail; not good exps.
Baby Terrasque, hmmm. So it's a Mr. Fishy with legs and lungs, Mr. Fishy approves. Mr. Fishy is also a eating machine.
Mr. Fishy is my new favourite poster.
Mr. Fishy. Mr. Fishy. Mr. Fishy.
Thats cool, I want my pc's to succeed and be truly heroic; I was specifically thinking of characters who rant and rave to kings; gods; ancient dragons; demon lords and whatnot and was rather thinking some challenges are endgame and for near epic players not your mid level players. I build my scenarios to be successively harder as you proceed with lots of guys you can wade through for blood and glory in the beginning; and more and more leadership and challenging bad guys as you proceed to the finale which is typically a real knock down drag out where generally nobody gets killed, but a few might go below 0 for a bit. I dont do the -10 and your dead thing so players have a bit more buffer.
There is always some bad guys around for players who just want a night of mindless carnage to blow off steam; hehe have even been known to make a few monster effigies hehe for player catharsis hehe. No game thread I am running should ever take precidence over player enjoyment; after all; we do this for fun; so; gotta put the fun back in gamming
One big problem a GM has is putting a little fear or intimidation into the game. Most GMs see it as their job to make sure that the PC don't get to be too heroic or too successful when I just want to kick back one night a week and kill some orcs. If I wanted to get in a losing fight on my night off, I'd just go pick a fight in a biker bar.You and I see the same problem, Valegrim, but different people are the problem in it.
Baby Terrasque, hmmm. So it's a Mr. Fishy with legs and lungs, Mr. Fishy approves. Mr. Fishy is also a eating machine.Mr. Fishy is my new favourite poster.
Mr. Fishy. Mr. Fishy. Mr. Fishy.
Mr. Fishy has a fan club in the OTD forums. Spread the gospel!
oh; I let player go negative their Constitution stat as I think that makes alot more sense as that stat is supposed to equate relative health and vigor for life. So, if you have a Con of 15; you can go to to -15; if you have a Con of 8; then you can go to -8 rather than just a -10 for all players in all situations. This gives players a little more control when their placing thier stats; generally in my games, players have pretty good stats as I believe pc's are special and a cut above "joe farmer" so; pc's get 4d6; reroll 1's; take best three; roll two columns; take best of pair. This shifts the 9-12 average for stats on three dice up about 3.5 points; so players average (rounding up) 13-16 for stats.
generally; this gives a player a few more rounds for someone to get to them and bind their wounds.
I dont do the -10 and your dead thing so players have a bit more buffer.Out of curiousity, what do you do then?
Mr. Fishy is my new favourite poster.Mr. Fishy. Mr. Fishy. Mr. Fishy.
Mr. Fishy thanks you. Good heralding Urizen. Please accept this pie.
(The DM allowed me NO say in this entire thing whatsoever) Well basically what happened was that our group made their way into the underdark cleared a few rooms and then we ended the session so we went back to the entrance (outside the entrance to the under dark) sealed the entrance there so no baddies would come and crawl up on us then we made another wall using stoneshape to further prevent them from getting to us on either side. A pretty good defense for a few hours rest I think... but the DM decided that a cr 20+ baddie was going to come attack us and it magically phased through the walls an killed every player except for my barbarian.
OK, from this and a couple other things you're saying (like your first point about playing your PC when you're not there), I'm kind of getting the impression that the DM decided this on his own between game sessins, with none of the players present. Is this the case? If this is not the case, then my apologies. It's hard to tell from your story.
As to a CR20+ baddie, what is the party level? Hard to say how unfair it is without knowing that. Again, assuming the game was in session.
If, however, your DM killed all the PCs (except your barbarian) when not one single player was sitting at the table, by using a monster the PCs had no hope of beating and no hope of escaping, then the only question I have left is why are you still letting him DM? I'd even be reluctant to let him even PLAY at that point.
Sounds like he'd be happier playing minis games, where it really is one side of the table against the other. D&D doesn't really work that way. Even when there's a killer module, such as Tomb of Horrors, the DM is really more there to adjudicate the results of the players' rolls, not to kill the PCs out of hand. The DM should be able to put himself in the mindset of the monster or evil NPC who DOES want to kill the PCs, but shouldn't use the in-game-omnipotence that the station grants him to attain it.
Alot of unknowns in the stated dilemna. As a GM; you make wandering monster rolls according to various things; i dont usually do them inside dungeons controlled by intelligent beings unless they set patrols; then I have a wandering monste chart set by partrols and a few random things that baddies might keep in thier place for fun and security.
Now some things are drawn accross planes and scan planes for certain stimulous <ie hunting>; I could give you a list if you want. The greatest of them being pychic activity and spells that mimic psychic activity and spells that are interdimentional.
At certain levels like 10 or 12 or so when these type spells are frequent; players who cast them should be aware of this and make plans and adjustments.
Now i am curious; did your party set any guards? If not, I would say that was a bit overconfident.
think about this scenario; your party is hiding behind a wall 5 ft thick with no doors or windows; ok; sealed; lets forget about suffacation for now; but if a monster walks by either on its own or goaded by the monsters who you have so geniously frustrated and this said monster can tunnel or otherwise move through the 5ft and has something like Tremorsense 30 ft like a Bulette or some such; well, he is way aggressive and is gonna come for you.
So; if a player came to me with your complaint; that I had acted unfairly; here is what I would do.
If it was not a planned encounter; meaning a mob that I put in the dungeon; even a wandering or patrolling one; I would just take the hit as the GM and back up the game and undo it; say my bad; and just make a small, comment in the mildest tone I could; for the players to expect new specialized monster as they get higher in levels; if people are heated about it; would leave that out for a few game sessions and just on the side encourage players to bring their A game, so to speak; mobs arent dumb like in video games; they are gonna respond.
now; if this was a planned encounter; meaning I wrote this whole thing out as a planned encounter weeks ago as a challenge for the PC's. I would say, and have; "As a player you are entitled to challenge the fairness of the situation if you think that I have just created this monster out of thin air for spite. I will take you aside and show you the encounter and my notes if you wish so that you can be assured that this did not happen; but you wont recieve any exps for any parts of the adventure that you look at in fairness to the other pc's."
Trust between GM's and Players is paramount. If the GM did this in fact for spite; some do, well, I would hope that GM would swallow his ego and make amends. One of the first things you learn as a GM, or should; is that the whole world, treasure; monsters, everything, are ther FOR the pc's and not to get all hot and bothered because the pc's kill all your mobs. The job of a GM is to make the world interesting and scenarios that challenge the pc's. If the pc's easily kill all your mobs; well, let them; everybody need those adventures once in a while; just write a more challenging adventure last time.
If your a gm, maybe your new or havent a lot of experience; there are lots of GM on this site; like myself; who have written a lot on the subject. I have written whole adventures for people with lots and lots of threads to other adventures inbedded as have other GM's; just look for it; probably in archive at the moment; but you can query my name or GM or DM and advice and I am sure anyone who wants to read that stuff; and a lot of it is really good stuff from various of us here on the boards and differing gm and play styles; I am sure it is still around.
You might need to go to the GM and say; "what part of that scene was supposed to be fun for us as players?"; dont say it mad; be kind and interested in his/her answer. Might be a growing moment for your GM and remember; we all have bad days sometimes, even GM's.