Two things DMs should never do


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That's when your barbarian should have invoked his rage feat by knocking all the dice and mini off the table with one fell swoop and tip over the table and causing all the left over pizza and mt dew to spill copiously over the offending DM. Then tell him that you didn't want to partake of his beverage and food. Then tell him what he can do with his CR 20 uberBBEG.

Then walk out the door and go find a DM that doesn't drive a Fiat.

:P


RamboJesus wrote:
story, painful to read, it's so true...

IF, and this is a big BIG "IF", the DM has a plan, and your cooperation is part of seeing the plan come to fruition, he should have AT LEAST told you to relax and not to worry, that things will reveal themselves in time. He should IDEALLY have gotten your permission beforehand somehow.

I can be a hardcore gamer, especially in WoD, so when I play, I tend to go all out to a degree that sometimes is makes the storyteller uncomfortable. I back off once I realize, but other times it's because the storyteller wants to do something story-wise, but it severly alters my character in some way, so they are unsure how to approach it. I tell them that I can handle whatever happens, it's just a game, and I will do my best to react solely in-character. Sometimes that means relationships I cultivated become betrayals, othertimes actions I took have nasty unintended consequences, but they tell me beforehand that something is coming, and get tacit permission to do as they like.

In short, most players will allow just about anything provided they understand it is coming and are adequately rewarded (in RP or XP or dinner later, etc.). If this is the situation, bad etiquette is to blame.

If this is NOT the case, then I don't know what to tell you, except:

"The time has come, my gamer friends, to scheme up many things,
To plot and plan some silly stuff, and make the DM scream"

Shadow Lodge

RamboJesus wrote:
So I said well my EK just uses Ddoor to gtfo, and the DM said antimagic field, and I said thats only a 10ft magic radius and he says well... in 3.5 there are artifacts that span an entire metropolis with anti magic field. Ok fair enough I suppose, so I said well they just run away, but wrong again turns out that a bunch of drow who were ""spying" on us from the previous rooms that we completely cleared TWICE, can see through walls and somehow magically sealed the only escape route we had.

So the escape route was sealed magically after your DM said there was a oversized antimagic field? Dude, you DM screwed up!


Mirror, Mirror wrote:
I can be a hardcore gamer, especially in WoD, so when I play, I tend to go all out to a degree that sometimes is makes the storyteller uncomfortable.

I hear that. Storyteller can get pretty intense.


Just to remember those guys who wonder why the autor sometimes posts poison... it's the guy who had a certain thread about rogues a while ago.

Let's feed the troll!!!

Launches an Arrow IV at Turkina... best way to deal with the clan stravags is from afar.

Orders hi McKenna battleship to power up it's NPPCs


Zmar wrote:

Just to remember those guys who wonder why the autor sometimes posts poison... it's the guy who had a certain thread about rogues a while ago.

Let's feed the troll!!!

Launches an Arrow IV at Turkina... best way to deal with the clan stravags is from afar.

And mines. Don't forget the mines.

Zmar wrote:
Orders hi McKenna battleship to power up it's NPPCs

Now that's not exactly kosher....


Apparently there was an anti-paragraph-break spell too.


Zmar wrote:

Just to remember those guys who wonder why the autor sometimes posts poison... it's the guy who had a certain thread about rogues a while ago.

Let's feed the troll!!!

Launches an Arrow IV at Turkina... best way to deal with the clan stravags is from afar.

Orders hi McKenna battleship to power up it's NPPCs

I am not a troll my rogue thread I wholeheartedly wanted to be a good discussion and this thread is truthfully what happened and I am a bit upset about spending two hours on a char prior to playing and not even being given the opportunity to play it.


kyrt-ryder wrote:

Kolokotroni, what sorts of encounters are you guys having?

In my table games encounters never ever take more than 20 minutes a piece.

I admit my groups encounters are fairly long. They tend to involve alot of tactics, environmental effects/terrain issues. And some of my group can be a little slow in the descision making. But the big issue is group size. We average 6-7 players. With enough level approprate monsters to challenge that many PCs. They are not long in turns (they are generally about average) those turns just take a long time.


CourtFool wrote:
Apparently there was an anti-paragraph-break spell too.

Lol I'm sorry I'm on my Zune HD xD


Kolokotroni wrote:
kyrt-ryder wrote:

Kolokotroni, what sorts of encounters are you guys having?

In my table games encounters never ever take more than 20 minutes a piece.

I admit my groups encounters are fairly long. They tend to involve alot of tactics, environmental effects/terrain issues. And some of my group can be a little slow in the descision making. But the big issue is group size. We average 6-7 players. With enough level approprate monsters to challenge that many PCs. They are not long in turns (they are generally about average) those turns just take a long time.

Mine last about an hour.

Except the first encounter of the last adventure.

Gorram grenades + Snowbolds clustered together = lots of Tarrasque Food for "Mr.Chompers".


Mirror, Mirror wrote:
mhd wrote:
Rule #16: Don't overdo the saucy wench bits. Creeeeepy.
EDIT: Unless you are, in reality, a saucy wench. Rrrooww!

Two Words, "MR. FISHY"

Who the hell is Mr. Chompers?
What are we talking about? Character death? Mr. Fishy rarely does anything as coarse as kill a PC. Beat, humiliate, rob, torment, give a good party an imp(that was fun).

Imp to paladin(PC),"Ok, I'm evil but I just spend the last 200 years in that jar, so I haven't done anything evil in 200 years. When the last time you did anything good."

"Also that weapon isn't magical so it won't kill me, but if you hit me...I'll wait for you to fall asleep and then I'll s!&& in your mouth."

The paladin(PC) left that imp the hell alone.

1.DM should never forget, that a DM without a group is a crazy man that talks to himself.

2. Killing is the last thing to do to a PC, so many things are survivable, haha,HAHA.


Mr.Fishy wrote:
Mirror, Mirror wrote:
mhd wrote:
Rule #16: Don't overdo the saucy wench bits. Creeeeepy.
EDIT: Unless you are, in reality, a saucy wench. Rrrooww!

Two Words, "MR. FISHY"

Who the hell is Mr. Chompers?

Mr. Chompers was a reference to the baby Terrasque NPC I will soon be making into my animal companion in Loopy's game. I've been weaning him on snowbold and white dragon flesh, so the frag grenades give him lots of food when the snowbolds cluster together. He likes cleaning up battlefields


You have a baby tarrasque as an animal companion? o.O

Oh, merde.... There goes the neighborhood. nomnomnom...


Maveric28 wrote:
Fatespinner wrote:

I do not believe that DMs should do the following:

1.) Allow crazy races/templates into a game unless ALL the players are playing crazy races/templates. I hate seeing tables with 2 humans, an elf, and a half-demon werewolf or some b@&**!@% like that. I also hate it when some player INSISTS that he be allowed to play such b@&**!@%, even though the DM has flatly stated 'No.'

2.) ...that was really my big one. I might come back to this. :)

I don't like this either... but it stopped bothering me a while back for some reason. In my campaigns, I imposed a "One Freak Limit" so only one person may play any non-Core race and only one may play a non-Core class. First come, first served, and I get full veto power based on whether I think it will be a good fit for the campaign. For example, my Rise of the Runelords campaign had two freaks at one time, a human Warlock (from the Complete Arcane or Mage or whatever) and a draenei Paladin (draenei from the World of Warcraft video game). The players have to submit a written proposal on what the class/race can do, and then I rewrite it to fit my campaign world and to make sure they are on equal footing with the other players.

Most players are fine with this. Players that INSIST they should get to play such things get sent home... I have a waiting list of players to take their seat as soon as it clears up.

i would limit the "Freaks" to 1 freak at a time per 3 players, some things i wouldn't consider freaks, if they could pass of as normal enough. individual who suffer merely from cultural misplacement (such as a samurai outside of minkai, or a chelexian nun living in Tian Xia) would suffer the issue of not understanding the languages of the enviroment without having studied them beforehand. but wouldn't count as a freak. something truly abberant, such as a vampiric half troll tiefling werewolf warlock i would say no to, even with freak slots.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

RJ,

A great deal of the social contract around the gaming table is dependent on trust. As a player, I trust my fellow players to be honest, and my GM to be fair. It sounds like your issue here is one of trust.

I am reminded of an old FGU game, "Year of the Phoenix", that begins with the PCs being a crew sent up in the space shuttle, on an emergency launch to deal with an old Soviet military satellite that's had some sort of glitch and gone rogue. All the scematics, and the details of the ordnance, are all lost in some back office somewhere in Russia. You build characters appropriate to that military / space shuttle / rescue mission.

The boxed game includes the introductory adventure. No matter what the party does, the shuttle will be caught in the satellite's explosion and will attempt an emergency re-entry and landing, to find out they've been thrown forward in time to AD 2197, where Russians now occupy most of North America.

And that's the adventure setting. You're 20th-Century astronauts who are, in the words of Stargate: Universe, the "wrong people in the wrong place at the wrong time," leading the barbarian yankee survivors against the Soviet overlords.

And you can't get there unless the referee yanks very hard on the party's chains, and the players trust him that the payoff will be worth it.


Baby Terrasque, hmmm. So it's a Mr. Fishy with legs and lungs, Mr. Fishy approves. Mr. Fishy is also a eating machine.

Dark Archive

Turin the Mad wrote:
David Fryer wrote:
RamboJesus wrote:
So you guys are fine with a DM just simply killing off one (or more) of your characters in the group? just because they wanted to?
I am fine with it. In fact I once played in a campaign where the DM started out by saying, "Everyone dies, and then you wake up on the shores of an unfamiliar river." Totally awesome campaign by the way.
Sounds like Riverworld.

Actually it was the start of an Oathbound campaign.


RamboJesus wrote:
CourtFool wrote:
Apparently there was an anti-paragraph-break spell too.
Lol I'm sorry I'm on my Zune HD xD

No worries. Just a pet peeve.

I understand your frustration. Really, I do. I have a rant or two around here somewhere. My advice is to sit down with your GM IN A NON-CONFRONTATIONAL SETTING and explain your frustration to him. Assuming you are not going to just walk from his campaign.

Regardless of my or anyone else's opinion, you have a problem with your GM. Only the two of you can work it out.


Mr.Fishy wrote:
Mr. Fishy is also a eating machine.

Funny, CJ's wife said the same about me.


CourtFool wrote:
Mr.Fishy wrote:
Mr. Fishy is also a eating machine.
Funny, CJ's wife said the same about me.

+1


Mirror, Mirror wrote:
RamboJesus wrote:
story, painful to read, it's so true...

IF, and this is a big BIG "IF", the DM has a plan, and your cooperation is part of seeing the plan come to fruition, he should have AT LEAST told you to relax and not to worry, that things will reveal themselves in time. He should IDEALLY have gotten your permission beforehand somehow.

I can be a hardcore gamer, especially in WoD, so when I play, I tend to go all out to a degree that sometimes is makes the storyteller uncomfortable. I back off once I realize, but other times it's because the storyteller wants to do something story-wise, but it severly alters my character in some way, so they are unsure how to approach it. I tell them that I can handle whatever happens, it's just a game, and I will do my best to react solely in-character. Sometimes that means relationships I cultivated become betrayals, othertimes actions I took have nasty unintended consequences, but they tell me beforehand that something is coming, and get tacit permission to do as they like.

In short, most players will allow just about anything provided they understand it is coming and are adequately rewarded (in RP or XP or dinner later, etc.). If this is the situation, bad etiquette is to blame.

If this is NOT the case, then I don't know what to tell you, except:

"The time has come, my gamer friends, to scheme up many things,
To plot and plan some silly stuff, and make the DM scream"

Agree. Sit down and have a chat with your DM (unless you've already walked from the game).

BTW, have you played with these folks before? Are they friends or acquaintances, or are they strangers?

Without some serious inclination from the DM that he didn't just destroy a party of PCs with no other validation other than "I wanted to" I would be quite upset (and rightfully so in my mind). Now, if he has some really neat plotlines going on and he had to do that to kickstart the chain of events...at least give me a hint that that is what's going on.

Otherwise he's just a crazy man talking to himself.


Rambo:

Sounds like the other PC's had a "kill us off so we can reroll" discussion with the DM when you were out on a smoke break.

-S


And while I'm musing about TPK's...

I was running a long-standing bi-weekly game (about 2 years in at this point I think) and the party was somewhere around 10th-11th level. They were on the road traveling from one city to another and had heard tales that a very powerful red dragon had been harrassing the local countryside (burning fields, killing and carrying off livestock, etc.).

At one point on the road, they saw the dragon flying in the distance on a rough intersect course with them (hard to tell from its distance). They knew they couldn't fight it and win on the open road, so looking around they took in their surroundings...woodlands to the south of the road and rolling hills to the right. But wait! What is that in the hills nearby? Is that a man-sized cave entrance?

The dragon approaches ever closer. It is definitely headed the PCs way. What to do? Well, two of the six characters felt compelled to try and save the horses and so took off with them towards the woods while the other four ducked into the cave. About the time the two with the horses got to the edge of the woods the dragon was on them and roasted them to a crisp (failed saves and whatnot). The dragon had a nice feast. The rest of the group ducked back into the cave they were in, setting off a pitfall trap that blocked the doorway and simultaneously opened up a sealed door to a nycadaemon (which was the intended fight) who, while taking his licks, also wound up killing the other 4 PCs.

I turned it into a dream sequence for the PCs (every single one of them had the same dream) and they had a very weird sense of deja vu later that day when they approached the scene they had dreamt about that night. Forewarned is forearmed, and things went much smoother for them the second time through.


RamboJesus wrote:
I am not a troll my rogue thread I wholeheartedly wanted to be a good discussion and this thread is truthfully what happened and I am a bit upset about spending two hours on a char prior to playing and not even being given the opportunity to play it.

Yep, that sucks. A couple of possibilities here:

1) Your fellow players wanted a kill off and re-roll, and didn't tell you about this. If so, bad on them and the DM for including you in the kill-off and not telling you about it.

2) You had munchkinned your characters to hell and back, and the DM wanted to wipe the slate clean. If so, bad on him for not just coming out and saying "Guys, I don't like the way you have generated your PCs, I'd like to play a different kind of game."

3) There is a bigger plan going on - I recall a Ravenloft scenario that started with a planned TPK, and I have written a few where the party start by getting captured.

4) You DM is an ass, and the only way he thinks he can challenge you is using overwhelming force.

The first thing you need to do is ask you DM why, exactly, he felt killing most of the party was a good idea. If he doesn't give a satisfactory answer, time to walk.

On a broader scale, there are a number of skills that make a good DM.

1) Figure out what you like to DM, and how. There's no point you not having fun, and if you aren't having fun it will suck.

2) Either publicise this to your prospective players before hand and make it clear to them what you are wanting, or else find out the kind of game they want, and take the options that have the most in common.

3) Remember that while you are there to tell a story, it is a story about the PC's. This doesn't mean give them, everything they want, it means give them what they need: challenges, a chance to shine, something to be proud of, and a reward at the end of the day.

4) DM Fiat is a last resort. Treat it as such.

5) At the same time, be firm and consistent in your interpretations of the rules.

6) Don't be afraid to fudge things if it makes for a better story and a more fun adventure for the players. This means that the villain gets away sometimes, or the monster doesn't always drop at the first save-or-X spell, so be it. It also means that the save-or-die the villain threw at the PC who should have saved easily becomes a save-or-X when they roll a natural 1, and that the first blast from the Doomslayer Staff was a ranged touch that missed ...

7) Don't be obvious about it. The best times can be when you have them convinced you are out to kill them, when in fact you are doing your best to keep them alive!

Liberty's Edge

Sebastian wrote:


If I'm not mistaken, that's even RAW.

See, it's right here. Lean closer into the book...

<SLAMS BOOK ON HEAD>

EDIT: I gotta stop watching the three stooges.


Chris Mortika wrote:
TRUST


Studpuffin wrote:


EDIT: I gotta stop watching the three stooges.

Yeah, stay away from the mirrors ;)


I don't think the DM should diminish the fun the players are having, or allow the fun he has running the game to be diminished.

That's my fortune cookie line for the day.

Liberty's Edge

kyrt-ryder wrote:
Studpuffin wrote:


EDIT: I gotta stop watching the three stooges.

Yeah, stay away from the mirrors ;)

ROFL

EDIT: I meant, I have to stop reading the tier threads. ;P

Too much fun in there.


Mr.Fishy wrote:
Baby Terrasque, hmmm. So it's a Mr. Fishy with legs and lungs, Mr. Fishy approves. Mr. Fishy is also a eating machine.

[swordsalute]

Mr. Fishy,

You Sir Fishy are hereby dubbed "Sir Fishy Baron-Esquire Supreme of the Third Person Humorous".

[/swordsalute]


Turin the Mad wrote:
Mr.Fishy wrote:
Baby Terrasque, hmmm. So it's a Mr. Fishy with legs and lungs, Mr. Fishy approves. Mr. Fishy is also a eating machine.

[swordsalute]

Mr. Fishy,

You Sir Fishy are hereby dubbed "Sir Fishy Baron-Esquire Supreme of the Third Person Humorous".

[/swordsalute]

Chiming in the obligatory +1.


Dosgamer wrote:

When I DM, I have a houserule that I mention to players when we're creating characters.

Miss 1 session "without a good reason" and you get 1/2 experience for the session.
Miss 2 consecutive sessions "without a good reason" and your character catches a nasty disease + 1/2 experience for the session.
Miss 3 consecutive sessions "without a good reason" and said disease becomes fatal. We have never gotten to #3 in nearly 10 years of playing.

You sir, are much nicer then I. You go for consecutive misses.

My version of that:
Miss 1 session "without a good reason" and you get 0 experience for the session.
Miss 2 sessions within a 2 month (real life) time frame "without a good reason" and your character catches a nasty disease (or otherwise has something bad happen to them) + 0 experience for the session.
Miss 3 sessions within a 2 month (real life) time frame "without a good reason" and said character meets with an unfortunate end.

If you don't want to show and put in the effort (and have no legitimate reason not to) then we (players & GM) aren't going to do so for you.


Sean FitzSimon wrote:

Sounds like you had a bad experience with a DM. I think, at this point, it's important to remember the two things PLAYERS should never do:

1. Never forget that your DM is playing the game, too. S/he puts more effort into the story and campaign than any single player character, and as such deserves to have as much fun as the rest of the group.
2. Never play AGAINST your DM. Don't exploit a clever reading of a rule to make your character unbalancingly powerful, and never get angry when your DM tells you no for that very reason.

Fatespinner wrote:

I do not believe that DMs should do the following:

1.) Allow crazy races/templates into a game unless ALL the players are playing crazy races/templates. I hate seeing tables with 2 humans, an elf, and a half-demon werewolf or some b!&~!~&& like that. I also hate it when some player INSISTS that he be allowed to play such b!&~!~&&, even though the DM has flatly stated 'No.'

Mairkurion {tm} wrote:
Chris Mortika wrote:
TRUST

+1 to all the above


RamboJesus wrote:
(The DM allowed me NO say in this entire thing whatsoever) Well basically what happened was that our group made their way into the underdark cleared a few rooms and then we ended the session so we went back to the entrance (outside the entrance to the under dark) sealed the entrance there so no baddies would come and crawl up on us then we made another wall using stoneshape to further prevent them from getting to us on either side. A pretty good defense for a few hours rest I think... but the DM decided that a cr 20+ baddie was going to come attack us and it magically phased through the walls an killed every player except for my barbarian. I was also running and EK which I much preferred to the barbarian. The cleric and rogue player wanted to reroll so they were fine with dying and im ok with that to an extent. So I said well my EK just uses Ddoor to gtfo, and the DM said antimagic field, and I said thats only a 10ft magic radius and he says well... in 3.5 there are artifacts that span an entire metropolis with anti magic field. Ok fair enough I suppose, so I said well they just run away, but wrong again turns out that a bunch of drow who were ""spying" on us from the previous rooms that we completely cleared TWICE, can see through walls and somehow magically sealed the only escape route we had. THEN he said well your barbarian wakes up in the forest he lives in with no memory of what just happened, and I was like well I want to get my memory back so I tried to get a sorcerer to dispel magic on me thinking it may have been a magic effect, NOPE. I then went to a temple and got healed NOPE they even used the spell HEAL, so then I went to the mages guild to do research on a monster that could do such a thing and I didn't find anything. The DM says that this is a perfectly legit call, but I say otherwise...

Well if what you are saying is accurate then... your GM is a dick.

My opinion from the stated info: He doesn't know how to run a game and wants to rule it instead. He is trying to 'win' the game.


Studpuffin wrote:
EDIT: I meant, I have to stop reading the tier threads.

+50,000 brain cells for you!!!


Mr.Fishy wrote:
Baby Terrasque, hmmm. So it's a Mr. Fishy with legs and lungs, Mr. Fishy approves. Mr. Fishy is also a eating machine.

Special Note: Every character in my campaign usually gets a "special something" that is better than your average item or ability. Mr.Chompers is this character's special something.

Mr.Chompers, the Baby Tarrasque
Animal Companion

Starting Statistics:
Size: Medium
Speed: 50 ft.
AC: +2 natural armor
Attack: bite (1d8)
Ability Scores: Str 14, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 8
Special Qualities: low-light vision, scent

4th-Level Advancement:
Attack: 2 claws (1d4)
Ability Scores: Str +2, Con +2
Special Attacks: swallow whole
Special Qualities: DR 5/magic

7th-Level Advancement:
Attack: bite (2d6)
AC: +2 natural armor
Ability Scores: Str +2, Con +2;

12th-Level Advancement (player's choice):
Special Qualities: Fast Healing 2
or
Large Size plus size increase modifiers
Attack: 2 gores (1d4)


Okay, I've always thought that the tarrasque was a unique creature. How exactly do tarrasques reproduce? Is it asexual?


Urizen wrote:
Okay, I've always thought that the tarrasque was a unique creature. How exactly do tarrasques reproduce? Is it asexual?

From what I can tell, somehow it magically respawns every 1000 years. Since it was killed in a previous campaign that took place roughtly 1000 years ago, I got to find an egg.


Ah, but it would have gone great with ham. Think of the market value you could charge on that breakfast. You could effectively twink yourself out of the campaign. :P


Urizen wrote:
Ah, but it would have gone great with ham. Think of the market value you could charge on that breakfast. You could effectively twink yourself out of the campaign. :P

:D


Madcap Storm King wrote:

I don't think the DM should diminish the fun the players are having, or allow the fun he has running the game to be diminished.

That's my fortune cookie line for the day.

I generally want to agree with this, but unfortunately, some people's idea of having fun is being a dick to others.


Urizen wrote:
Ah, but it would have gone great with ham. Think of the market value you could charge on that breakfast. You could effectively twink yourself out of the campaign. :P

Yeah, but the egg hatched before we could identify it. We did have some mages tell us to get it the @#$& away from them though, and a couple other run screaming :)


Well, then it would be like eating veal. Tarrasque whelps, I hear, have quite a taste to them. There has to be someone that would want to pay up. Maybe there should be some experiment involved where a template is added on like a troll and a hydra or a flatworm. I smell a profit. Twinkle twinkle, my handy haversack full of gold.


Selgard wrote:

Rambo:

Sounds like the other PC's had a "kill us off so we can reroll" discussion with the DM when you were out WITH YOUR GIRLFRIEND .

-S

*Dbag dm who rolfstomped the groups main character.*

Fixed. cuz thats exactly what happened xD


Urizen wrote:
Okay, I've always thought that the tarrasque was a unique creature. How exactly do tarrasques reproduce? Is it asexual?

You've been watching the wrong Godzilla movie.


Nubzcrymore wrote:
*Dbag dm who rolfstomped the groups main character.*

Is this where we are suppose to burn you at the stake?


Laddie wrote:
Urizen wrote:
Okay, I've always thought that the tarrasque was a unique creature. How exactly do tarrasques reproduce? Is it asexual?
You've been watching the wrong Godzilla movie.

Apparently!


Urizen wrote:
Okay, I've always thought that the tarrasque was a unique creature. How exactly do tarrasques reproduce?

Mr. Fishy tamed that. Mr. Fishy is tired.


Mr.Fishy wrote:


Urizen wrote:
Okay, I've always thought that the tarrasque was a unique creature. How exactly do tarrasques reproduce?
Mr. Fishy tamed that. Mr. Fishy is tired.

Being a herald to your own fan club a.k.a. cult can be taxing, Mr. Fishy.

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