I don't use the map folios at all, probably because I have the AP PDFs - every time I see one in a shipment, I think "I could have spent that money on something cooler".
The city map folio sounds good, and it'd be great if the AP folios featured a combination of poster and battle maps (even if the battle map was just AP-appropriate terrain - treading on flip mat toes, I know) but I would not be bothered if the map folios, in their current form, were abandoned.
I wrote a lengthy reply last night and the forum ate it, then after I wrote this one, I was having server problems so just saved the rewritten reply to post later.
In short: I only have the Second Darkness map folio (I started subscribing with Second Darkness) and haven't had a chance to use it yet but I would probably show the keyed maps to players after they finish a room so they can better imagine what went down, and so it alters their memories of the event. I plan to buy the map folios for Rise of the Runelords, Curse of the Crimson Throne, and Legacy of Fire. I would prefer if the maps weren't keyed, but I can make use of them either way since I expect that the players will have already faced anything keyed on them by the time they see them.
I like the poster map of the drow city in the Second Darkness map folio and the Cities map folio full of poster maps sounds good.
I think the Friends and Foes cards will be good if they will also tend to have matching sets that go along with the APs and modules. I'm presently running a WotC 3.5e adventure (Cormyr: Tearing of the Weave) and haven't started the PAIZO adventures yet. For my C:TotW game, I printed illustrations from the JPEGs published in the image gallery for the book on Wizards' website and I like to paperclip them to the back of my DM screen so everyone can see them. To that end, I would encourage PAIZO to publish more of the illustrations from the adventure paths and modules as JPEGs in an image gallery (perhaps sorted by product?) here on the website. That's not a product for PAIZO to sell so much as it is something I would find useful.
As far as 1-inch grids are concerned, I plan to buy all the WorldWorksGames Pathfinder Terrain for Legacy of Fire. I haven't built any of it yet, but it looks exactly like what I want to see for maps of the APs. I'm hoping they also make some pieces for interconnection of various sets so I can use them to build dungeons from the component parts that aren't featured as official Pathfinder Terrain dungeons.
As an aside, and off-topic, I really like the Pathfinder Modules line and don't think it gets enough love. I really enjoyed reading Blood of Dragonscar.
I may be a little late on this topic but I would like the map folios more if I could hand them out to my players WITHOUT the numbers and secret doors. That being said I love the Zirnakaynin fold up map in the "Second Darkness" folio.
Do you like this sort of thing? Would the world be torn asunder if they were not a regular feature?I need to make some decisions about 2010, and I don't really have a sense of whether these are "working" or not.
Please help me determine this.
Most of this has already been said by others, but here's some more input.
My group is mid-way through "A Memory of Darkness", playing every 2 weeks at our FLGS. Here are my observations from use of the map folio (some of which may be a result of my limits as a working-daddy DM):
1 - Keyed maps are not useful for game prep - take me too much effort to use effectively during my 2 hours of prep (rather than wrestling to get the keys out, I just skip it)
2 - Loose maps are useful at the game table - rather than having to keep that perfect bound book open to the right page as I translate the map to the combat pad, I can just use the single loose sheet - although I could get the same from printing the PDF from the file.
3 - Missing maps - most recently, from "Endless Night" the set piece map was not present and that was a tremendously fun side adventure for the PCs, the map was missed (because, during my prep, I failed to notice that I needed to print that map; I assumed it was in the folio). Since the product was just the DM maps from all the AP books, I mistakenly expected all the DM maps to be in there.
4 - No increase in resolution - the map folio file being the same resolution as the main adventure means that there is no difference in use when I try to enlarge the maps to support "minis-scale". I'm not big on minis, but my players are.
5 - The city maps, OTOH, were really valued by the players as a map to have on the table when we weren't in battle. They players loved having the Zinakaynin map out during "Endless Night"
My overall opinion - I wouldn't buy them if they weren't subscription as they don't really add much to my prep time as DM. I have used the folio (afterall, I do own it and crack it open when I get to the game store to draw out the first battle map).
Map folios of public places (communities, public buildings, etc) are of interest, but what has bee in the first three folios hasn't been worth the cost.
I would pay more to have keyless maps, as that would be useful to be able to hand them to the players. Additionally, maps with only obvious features (no secret doors/rooms) would be high value - even better would be a notional adventurer's hand drawn map. Also of value would be to have the maps at a resolution that supports printing for use with minis (for my players) - or includes fold-out maps for use in battles.
Heck, you could get a new product (a clear plastic overlay or pouch to protect the paper battle-mats during use) out of the deal.
This is my experience, YMMV.
Erik - definitely looking forward to the city map folio.
Late to the party but I agree with the general consensus that the map packs as they have been published so far are not very useful and that if they are to keep being published I'd prefer to see them removed from the subscription.
The posters are indeed the most interesting part, so if you go that way in general I'm willing to give them another chance. That said, I hope that the Cities of Golarion book includes page sized maps of each city so that it can still be useful to folks who are not purchasing the folio (or don't want to wait the extra month).
A lot of folks are making the presumption that we all have the PDFs of all the maps ... and until the grand sale that Paizo gave us last month, this was not the case in my household. We discovered the APs through Rise of the Runelords #2 ... the art caught my husband's and my attention :) (We had stopped collecting Dungeon and Dragon because we were not big 3.0 fans, and were miffed -- nice phrase <G> -- with 3.5 and the influx of rebuying all the books we already had).
So, if we had wanted copies of the maps from all six Runelords and the first two Crimson Throne, we had to make photocopies or get the folios ... and did a little of both.
All I'm pointing out is, don't presume that everyone will be a subscriber and have access to all the lovely PDFs and that is what makes the Map Folios pointless as a useless repeat. :)
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I like the concept and wish it to continue but I would change what goes in it.
Frankly, the cost for this item with blown up maps from the AP is too high. There is nothing new that can not be gotten from the PDFs. In saying that, cutting out maps and blowing them up is not my forte. The maps in the AP are useful and my players get a use out of them when they are planning their travels.
Battlemaps, battlemaps and battlemaps. :)
These need to be in the map folio. Minis are part of my game and I have a hard enough time sorting out and getting the minis I need let alone downloading and organising the battlemaps. Now that PF has paper minis it would be great to have battle maps.
My final suggestion is, keep the map folio content as is but cheaper or add more maps and keep at same price. Bring out a battlemap line to support APs. The map folio was described as beingeasy to produce because it is reusing previous art. I am appreciate the time it would take to make battlemaps and that it may not be possible to do. I think it would be nice if battlemaps became part of the norm.
At the moment I pay for Map Folios only to support Paizo as we get all the maps we need for VTT from pdfs.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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I've bought two of the map folios. I love maps. Gorgeous Rob Lazzaretti maps. I would enjoy this product more if it always had one poster map that I didn't already have from another product* and one battlemap for a cool location -- not necessarily the key battle but a battle that is likely to be really cool and for which the cartography would be gorgeous.
I think that I have two poster maps of Varisia and two poster maps of Korvosa. I love them both but ...
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I know I'm pretty late in responding, but here's my take on it. Our gaming is a mix of online + tabletop gaming. For the tabletop we've always lived with just a battlemat, so while having full scales maps would be "nice," it would probably be prohibitively expensive and not enough value for that cost. That being said as a DM it is really nice so you can have the maps sitting there in front of you no matter what page of the book you're on (or don't even have the book in front of you).
The better option for this product in my opinion is to try to cater to both the in person and online crowd. If it were possible to scale the maps slightly higher (possibly even the 1" scale?) as well as keeping the original files it would help. Either way I'm a collector and lazy (too lazy to cancel my subscription every 6 months). So I'd keep them in their current form... but would appreciate if they were expanded to include either A) more maps from the adventure B) individual art either used in the adventure or not C) bigger scaled maps already given. Anyways, out of the pathfinder chronicles products, they would be the only one I wouldn't be too sad to see go away, as I'm pretty neutral on them.
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I did not read all the posts but...
I love the map folios. I print everything from the PDF and run my APs out of a large binder rather than the books because I do not want to wear my books out.
And I like to be able to separate things.
The maps from the AP PDF are okay but he ones in the map folio are better.
They are usually a bit larger or not crammed onto a page with a bunch of text. I am now (being who can keep up with every AP) waiting to print my maps until the map folio comes out. I am going to print all the maps separately anyway and hange them behind my screen so I can more easily referenc them rather than flip back and forth in my notebook - I already do enough of that.
I hope we keep the map folios. Also, I can print the poster map that comes with it in a much larger size at Kinko's. The maps in the AP were not able to be printed last time because they changed their software and they could not resize a map in a password protected PDF.
I also love the idea of new map folios that have other maps.
Please help me determine this.
Even as a dedicated cartophile, they're a waste of my money and your time. I'd rather see you guys put something out that isn't already printed elsewhere.
For now, they're cheap, so I don't make much of it.
If it weren't for the Map Folios, you'd probably still have me as a Chronicles subscriber. I cancelled my sub when the Second Darkness one was coming up and I haven't reupped it since I knew the Legacy of Fire one would be along next. Instead, I've picked up a PDF or two from the line.
To be clear, I don't see the Map Folios as inherently poor products, they just happen to be a product that I don't have a use for. Instead, I'd be interested in a product that provided battlemats for key encounters contained in an adventure path. I'd be willing to pay between $20 and $30 for four to six color double sided battlemats that I could use at various points in the AP.
And from Dryder:
"Maybe you can cancel the whole map folios and give us a better resolution in the pdfs, or put all maps into the back of a pdf file..."I'd much prefer to have label-free maps included in the original adventure PDF's instead.
There are label free maps in the PDFs, you simply need to use Adobe Reader 8 to extract them. It's actually quite easy then, just cut and paste.
As for canceling the map folios and getting better resolution into the PDFs, that's my ideal solution, but I expect many others might disagree.
RHoD?
Oh yeah. Thanks.
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I think I agree with the general trend of the thread so far.
The city and regional maps are useful. The rest of the maps are not very useful.
Right now I use posterazor and photoshop to take the pdfs and turn them into battlemaps and then print them out. I'd be happy to have a product that cuts out those steps.
I'd like maps / handouts I can show the players, either as utility maps (city maps, regional maps) or as battle maps.
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Big fan of battlemaps for important setting locations where many/important encounters are likely to happen.
The Golden Goblin, for example, could have really used a battle map. There were a gazillion battles fought there and my poor DM's hand drawn map was pretty tattered by the end of Shadow in the Sky.
If you had one key encounter location per module, you could do it in 3 large format, 2-sided maps (also could fit several key encounters on one side if they're smaller). Since this kind of extra would add a considerable increase to the price of the module, the map folio would IMO be the ideal venue to offer such an enhanced play experience.
Also not a big fan of maps where the squares are at an odd angle in relation to the shape of the room. Please beat your cartographers harder for me. :)
Also not a big fan of maps where the squares are at an odd angle in relation to the shape of the room. Please beat your cartographers harder for me. :)
You know that's the author's fault rather than the cartographer right? The cartographer bases his maps on the scetches provided by the author. If they have weird rooms, the finished maps will have them as well.
p.s. I love how the first 3-D terrain from Worldworks for legacy of fire turned out. I just wish they could make them faster.
That doesn't mean the should be beaten any less severely. It's the principle of the thing; it has nothing to do with reason or facts. :)
You know that's the author's fault rather than the cartographer right?
right. Sorry.
Continue flogging
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Right, so I posted this separately, then found this thread.
I'd have a Chronicles subscription right now if the Map Folios either included battle mat versions of the encounter locations or they were not part of the subscription. The folios, in their current incarnation, are pretty much useless to me.
Also, like someone else posted, it would be helpful to have them available before you start running an AP, but I tend to collect an entire AP before I run it, anyway, so I can do some neat foreshadowing, etc. What that means is if you wait until the end of the AP to publish the folio it doesn't really hurt me, but I can see why the folks who are running the APs as fast as you can print them would find the folios release schedule less than optimal.
I'd have a Chronicles subscription right now if the Map Folios either included battle mat versions of the encounter locations or they were not part of the subscription.
I'd also be a subscriber of Chronicles were it not for the Map Folios. I've heard of people suspending / canceling their subscriptions to bypass them -- Paizo, is that kosher? Does it cause any issues? If it is OK I may take that route. I really would like to get all of the upcoming books with PDF as well.
I'd have a Chronicles subscription right now if the Map Folios either included battle mat versions of the encounter locations or they were not part of the subscription.I'd also be a subscriber of Chronicles were it not for the Map Folios. I've heard of people suspending / canceling their subscriptions to bypass them -- Paizo, is that kosher? Does it cause any issues? If it is OK I may take that route. I really would like to get all of the upcoming books with PDF as well.
When something comes up in any subscription I don't want, I simply email customer service (usually responding to their "we're about to ship this" message) and they remove it no problem. I've done this with the map folio specifically in the past. Make sure you respond to the shipping message versus the billing message, however. After it's billed it's pretty much too late to change the shipping contents.
I'd really rather they pull the map folios out of the Chronicles line and stick it in with the other cards/maps subscription (which I don't have, since I don't use those items).
When something comes up in any subscription I don't want, I simply email customer service (usually responding to their "we're about to ship this" message) and they remove it no problem. I've done this with the map folio specifically in the past. Make sure you respond to the shipping message versus the billing message, however. After it's billed it's pretty much too late to change the shipping contents.
Awesome to hear, thanks! I was just worried that Paizo would think that I'm being a bother but if it's OK then it is certainly easier than having to remember to order the Chronicles individually (and miss on the free PDF).
The map folios are nice but i think they should be included in the AP subscriptions (i know this will mess up the 2 APs/year to throw in 2 map folios aswell but still...).
I have the RotRL map folio and i use it from time to time but i don't think i will buy more map folios since i'll be able to extract and print the maps from the pdfs when i start subscribing to the APs (really looking forward to Kingmaker!).
I would rather see battle maps like the ones in RHoD and the 4e adventures (Keep on the Shadowfell etc).
//Tony
I'm so very, very weak. Just added Chronicles to my list of subscriptions. Until a few weeks ago I was only on the AP subscription but a few damaged products from Amazon (and actually missing the free PDFs, something I thought I'd never care about!) and getting tired of chasing down the other three (Companion, Chronicles, RPG) lines of products -- often a month later than subscribers get -- convinced me.
Now I look ahead to the shipping schedule in October and I weep. But, hey, I was going to buy the stuff anyhow...
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These are probably my least-favorite Paizo products.
I get them because they're part of my subscription, but frankly I find them a complete waste of money and wouldn't shed a tear if they went away for all the reasons already discussed.
Now if they were miniature battle-mats, then I might have an interest.
I absolutely love them, though so far we've only used them for Curse. It would be nice to have them with the AP subscription.
I haven't subscribed to Chronicles because I don't want the map folios. I picked up the RoTRL one and was disappointed that it didn't have anything that I couldn't have printed off from the adventures.
I would never think to buy them cause I could just hit print on the pdf for maps.
But if they even had a couple poster size maps on them scaled for minis for some of the more dramatic encounters than I would buy them with out a second thought.
The way they are now I would never think of buying them, cause there really not worth it.
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I like the map folios. It's convenient for me to have a copy of the map to "pull out" and have sitting next to the book while I'm running. Yeah, I could print out a copy from the PDF, but I usually barely have time to re-read what we're about to do before a session.
The only real complaint I have is that they have been leaving out maps. I forget which off hand, but I've noticed some conspicuous absences from the APs. To me, a Map Pack should contain ALL of the maps from the AP.
Having GM info on the hardcopies doesn't bother me that much; if I really need a player-friendly one (which I often do, since my groups use MapTool extensively, even when we're in the same room 8^) I can pull something out of the PDF. (Now that they have the GM stuff on different layers, which I greatly appreciate!!!)
Summary of my opinion: Like, but please make sure they're complete!
When this thread first started, I was all ready to hop on and bash the map folios. I've given serious thought to canceling my chronicles sub on the month that these came out and restarting afterward. But I figured, since I've never actually used one, I'd hold off on my judgment. Last week I used one, and I actually found it really useful. Not having to draw out a map saved a ton of time and our game ran much more smoothly. We don't use minis though, so others might not have the same experience. That said, I have no idea why this is part of the chronicles line.
My superfluous regurgitation of many other posts:
1) Not much good go me if the mapset is incomplete (for example, the Rise of the Runelords map folio lacks the Catacombs of Wrath map!)
2) Map folio should probably be player versions (only) of the DM's maps in the AP modules.
3) If and where practical, folio maps should be large enough to be used as AP-specific battlemaps: main work area of the Glassworks, the Cathedral of Wrath, etc.
Accomplishing (2) and (3) above would distinguish the Map Folios from the PDF versions of the APs and give DMs more reasons to buy them.
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Similar to a lot of posts above, here is my situation:
1. As an AP subscriber, I already have the pdf if I want to print out any maps.
2. The Map Folios are still in shrinkwrap at my house. (I have reviewed the contents in the pdf file of the map folios and decided to leave them in the shrinkwrap.)
3. If I could skip these in my subsciptions, I would skip them.
A suggestion, rather than simply stating my dislikes (I've done that in numerous posts since the RotRL map folio...):
Take the two most "important" encounters from each AP module and produce a flip-mat so that we end up with 12 battle maps. Put in the poster map(s) appropriate to the AP for the major town/castle/etc. That would be the ideal map folio for my needs. I don't need battle maps of every encounter in every AP, but having the "biggest and best" has a very nice impact on my games.
Until such time as this or something similar comes along, the map folios just sit on my shelf unopened--a purchase to support Paizo but not much use in general.
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2) Map folio should probably be player versions (only) of the DM's maps in the AP modules.
I (respectfully) disagree with this. I use the Map Folio maps when I GM, but not as player maps. I like to have them sitting next to my book, so I can refer to the map while reading the area descriptions, without having to flip back and forth all the time.
Now, I would support having both player maps and GM maps in the Map Folios, but that might get expensive...
I use the Map Folio maps when I GM, but not as player maps. I like to have them sitting next to my book, so I can refer to the map while reading the area descriptions, without having to flip back and forth all the time.
I expect many GM's do, but many if not most of them have the option of printing GM's maps from the PDF; whereas no "player's version" maps exist. That's why I was suggesting them in the folios. As you noted, both versions in the folios increases cost.
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I use the Map Folio maps when I GM, but not as player maps. I like to have them sitting next to my book, so I can refer to the map while reading the area descriptions, without having to flip back and forth all the time.I expect many GM's do, but many if not most of them have the option of printing GM's maps from the PDF; whereas no "player's version" maps exist. That's why I was suggesting them in the folios. As you noted, both versions in the folios increases cost.
Ditto on this response.
I still hate Map Folios and get them only because they're automatically part of the subscription. It frustrates me that I have to pay double for something I essentially already have contained in the PDFs. I wouldn't mind a player version of the maps as much though and I'd be far less offended by the fact I have to buy it.
In the end though my vote is still for the 1" version of the maps (either in flip-book or folding paper formats) and would actually find these kind of a neat addition (as long as the price were similar).
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It's neat to have the printed maps separate from the AP volume for ease of use, but they're definitely a nice-to-have rather than a must-have. Battle mats of key encounter locations would be much more useful to me, both for running the AP and for re-use as generic locations.
If they weren't in the subscription I probably wouldn't get them, since I basically flip through them once or twice then file them; I wouldn't mind seeing them moved out of the Pathfinder Chronicles line, possibly into the GameMastery line.
When something comes up in any subscription I don't want, I simply email customer service (usually responding to their "we're about to ship this" message) and they remove it no problem. I've done this with the map folio specifically in the past. Make sure you respond to the shipping message versus the billing message, however. After it's billed it's pretty much too late to change the shipping contents.Awesome to hear, thanks! I was just worried that Paizo would think that I'm being a bother but if it's OK then it is certainly easier than having to remember to order the Chronicles individually (and miss on the free PDF).
Sorry to reply to myself, but... Attempted to have them not ship the "Pathfinder Chronicles: City Map Folio Print Edition" before it got to my Order History tab and was informed that they can't cancel items but only subscriptions. So I guess I'll be canceling and re-subbing that line throughout the year to avoid the folios.
Also when I wrote customer service about removing the item it wasn't on my Order History but today along with the customer service response I noticed that it is now in the Order History (I'm not implying *anything* nefarious here -- simply a matter of bad timing, Paizo's CS is wonderful and has always been great). Does this mean that it is too late to cancel the subscription of Chronicles and dodge this item? If so, ugh.
Paizo, could you please consider at least having an opt-out option on the folios? Companions and Chronicles seem to me the "world fluff" lines and it just seems odd to have what is pretty much mainly useful as a game play aid mixed within.
Are there other people out there that do the cancel / re-sub dance?
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When something comes up in any subscription I don't want, I simply email customer service (usually responding to their "we're about to ship this" message) and they remove it no problem. I've done this with the map folio specifically in the past. Make sure you respond to the shipping message versus the billing message, however. After it's billed it's pretty much too late to change the shipping contents.Awesome to hear, thanks! I was just worried that Paizo would think that I'm being a bother but if it's OK then it is certainly easier than having to remember to order the Chronicles individually (and miss on the free PDF).Sorry to reply to myself, but... Attempted to have them not ship the "Pathfinder Chronicles: City Map Folio Print Edition" before it got to my Order History tab and was informed that they can't cancel items but only subscriptions. So I guess I'll be canceling and re-subbing that line throughout the year to avoid the folios.
Also when I wrote customer service about removing the item it wasn't on my Order History but today along with the customer service response I noticed that it is now in the Order History (I'm not implying *anything* nefarious here -- simply a matter of bad timing, Paizo's CS is wonderful and has always been great). Does this mean that it is too late to cancel the subscription of Chronicles and dodge this item? If so, ugh.
Paizo, could you please consider at least having an opt-out option on the folios? Companions and Chronicles seem to me the "world fluff" lines and it just seems odd to have what is pretty much mainly useful as a game play aid mixed within.
Are there other people out there that do the cancel / re-sub dance?
I assume that is as close to an official response to this thread as we have seen.
I too wish that the map foilos woud be dropped from the subscription I hate feeling like I am wasting 13$ every few months.|
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I like the idea of map folios: A premade, unmarked map that I could have to run the games after I've collected everything. And I also like what was included in the Kingmaker Map Folio.
That being said, I've run both Curse and Rise and didn't really use either. The only way I could see using them would be to make them the size of maps, each separated so I could lay them out as the players explore. The concern with that is I believe that would make them very expensivee.
I bought the pdf version of ROTR maps thinking there were extra maps in it. I felt pretty ripped off when I found there were just the maps that already exist in the AP. Why in the world sell a pdf version of maps we already have as pdfs?