So one of my female PC's wants to make a beautiful spear wielding amazon and (using the 25 point buy system) she naturally gave her a high Charisma. Then she asks is there was a feat that allowed her to use her Cha modifier to add to her BAB instead of her Str modifier. I couldn't come up with an answer.
Not in Pathfinder. But there are a few non-Core feats.
Here's a thread from the WotC boards that lists all kinds of "Add stat X to modifier Y" situations:
X Stat to Y Bonus
Then she asks is there was a feat that allowed her to use her Cha modifier to add to her BAB instead of her Str modifier. I couldn't come up with an answer.
Chaimail Bikini (yeah, I read -those- sourcebooks too, so what?) has a feat called "Hot&Violent" that allows you to use your Cha modifier for weapon damage rolls instead of your Str modifier but, like most of Chainmail Bikini feats, only works when your character is scantily clad. The Chainmail Bikini pdf can be bought cheaply on some online stores if your player is interested in giving her "Red Sonja" more resources for beautiful people.
Still, I pretty much doubt you'd find an otherwise feat to apply Cha on attack rolls per se, as that would immediately become a "must" feat among every other Bard and Paladin in game (if you find one, though, by all means post it here!).
LOL. That works out perfectly as she was planning on asking about rules for wearing a hide armor bikini anyways. I wuvs my GF. ^_~
LOL. That works out perfectly as she was planning on asking about rules for wearing a hide armor bikini anyways. I wuvs my GF. ^_~
Ewww! Having the GM's love interest in the table is always a bad thing! Don't you know that? Oh well, hope it all turns out well for your table, meanwhile here are the stats of the Hide bikini:
Armor Bonus +3
Max Dex Bonus +4
Check penalty -3
Arcane Spell Failure 5%
Speed 20/15
Cost 30gp
Bikini Armor only has 1/5 the HP of its regular counterpart, and usually requires an Exotic Armor Proficiency. Also it can be crafted with several other extras to improve its speed, check penalty, etc.
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Just as an aside- You can be very beautiful without a high charisma. Charisma is more about likability than it is about having a perfect body/face. Personality, attitude, mannerisms all make up charisma.
I've dated a bunch of women that were really hot but just damn painful to be around when they spoke.
Ewww! Having the GM's love interest in the table is always a bad thing! Don't you know that?
Dude, I'm so totally going to have to disagree. Me and my GF met at a D&D gaming session and we share alot in common. We love gaming together and we've got 3 other couples who game with us.
Oh well, hope it all turns out well for your table, meanwhile here are the stats of the Hide bikini:
Armor Bonus +3
Max Dex Bonus +4
Check penalty -3
Arcane Spell Failure 5%
Speed 20/15
Cost 30gpBikini Armor only has 1/5 the HP of its regular counterpart, and usually requires an Exotic Armor Proficiency. Also it can be crafted with several other extras to improve its speed, check penalty, etc.
Thanks dude. BTW, I downloaded Chainmail Bikini and I believe you kinda got your "BAB" mixed up with "Damage dealt" on that "Hot and Violent feat".
Ewww! Having the GM's love interest in the table is always a bad thing! Don't you know that?Dude, I'm so totally going to have to disagree. Me and my GF met at a D&D gaming session and we share alot in common. We love gaming together and we've got 3 other couples who game with us.
Met my husband of 22, going on 23 years, in college. D&D brought us together :) When it works, it works!
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It's only fatal if the GM starts showing favoritism, which tends to make the other players irate, or when the GM doesn't show it and the love interest gets offended for not being treated special. (Frankly, if they get offended for something that trite, I'd hazard the GM would really be better off without them, but that's just my two copper.)
Barring those circumstances? I'm sure it works fine.
It's only fatal [....] Barring those circumstances? I'm sure it works fine.
You forgot to mention when a player is really insecure and starts to blame all of his (her?) problems, gaming and otherwise, on the situation.
Peace,
tfad
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It's only fatal [....] Barring those circumstances? I'm sure it works fine.You forgot to mention when a player is really insecure and starts to blame all of his (her?) problems, gaming and otherwise, on the situation.
Peace,
tfad
Never having encountered that particular breed of difficulty, I was unaware it'd happen, but thinking about how insecure and fragile the egos of people tend to be, I can see how it'd be a potential problem there.
OTOH, I did threaten to stab a pair of players once for ignoring the game because they were too busy being sappy at each other.
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err mi first ex tied to stab me with a needle because my evil villain (as a player) was planning on killing some main characters of our campaign... well the needle was because I stopped her from taking her industrial boots soshe can throw them to my face :P
but aye showing preference to a girlfriend as a DM just bring troubles... they all (party) expect to be threated nice and fairly or they become quite aggresive :P
Still pal, have fun :D
are you sure is BaB and no damage? ok I need to re-check those rules... that would mean my cleric with her full playe Bikini might actually hit something more frequently even if she does a lot less damage...
What title is that feat from, Dogbert? I tried to do a search for Chainmail Bikini titles, and came up with several...
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What title is that feat from, Dogbert? I tried to do a search for Chainmail Bikini titles, and came up with several...
I am not Dogbert, but this is the Chain Mail Bikini book he mentions
in any case the name is: E.N. Armoury: Chainmail Bikinis
So one of my female PC's wants to make a beautiful spear wielding amazon and (using the 25 point buy system) she naturally gave her a high Charisma. Then she asks is there was a feat that allowed her to use her Cha modifier to add to her BAB instead of her Str modifier. I couldn't come up with an answer.
First of all...IMHO...
Charisma is a piss poor stat. It reflects both personality as well as physical beauty (think Hitler vs Brad Pitt both 18's in my opinion...)...Had she been a player of mine, I'd have said listen...is she just beautiful or beautiful and a strong personality as well ? If it's just beautiful, I'd have said to make the charisma average and put a better score in strength.
Second of all...
Letting the player attempt to add her CHA bonus to BAB? Oh come on. Grow a pair and tell the player that they made a decision and twisting game mechanics won't cover poor decision making.
Letting the player attempt to add her CHA bonus to BAB? Oh come on. Grow a pair and tell the player that they made a decision and twisting game mechanics won't cover poor decision making.
You should also drop-kick her in the head for good measure.
One of the Order of the Stick comics has Elan learning a Prestige class that allows him the use CHA as a bonus to hit. It was supposed to be based on some obscure source book. The Flamboyant Swashbuckler prestige class or something. Anybody know if it was a joke or is a true source book out there?
So one of my female PC's wants to make a beautiful spear wielding amazon and (using the 25 point buy system) she naturally gave her a high Charisma. Then she asks is there was a feat that allowed her to use her Cha modifier to add to her BAB instead of her Str modifier. I couldn't come up with an answer.
If she is going to be a fighter as part of her character build, you could always create a regional/cultural-style substitution level similar to the one presented for fighters in the Pathfinder Campaign Setting. She sacrifices her first level bonus fighter feat, but in return gains the ability to use her CHA modifier instead of STR. If it is limited to female fighters of this particular culture only, it reduces the chance of abuse by other players with charisma-strong characters.
If game balance is a concern, then stipulate that the substitution level is a permanent change. If she suddenly gets a higher STR score due to magic items or stat bumps, she can't add her STR bonus to BAB - it's either one or the other.
Oh...and I echo Dogbert's support for the Chainmail Bikini supplement. The rules and gear in there make perfect sense for this style of character. :)
My humble 2 cp...
Your Friendly Neighborhood Dalesman
"Bringing Big D**n Justice to the Bad Guys Since 1369 DR"
Letting the player attempt to add her CHA bonus to BAB? Oh come on. Grow a pair and tell the player that they made a decision and twisting game mechanics won't cover poor decision making.You should also drop-kick her in the head for good measure.
Chuckle all you want, and feel free to run a Monty Haul campaign style circus.
Perhaps a different solution would be in order. Since we are talking obscure source books how about using the social combat rules from d20 Slayers. Like the basic use of intimidate to demoralize but likely longer lasting and can lead to rather vicious war of words (or gestures). These rules would bring her charisma into combat as a legitimate tool. Although she would likely have to tag team with another player to drop the heavier humiliation on a foe.
The main question is how to apply the force of personality and persuasiveness that charisma also represents. After all physical attractiveness is only 1/5 of the listed parts of charisma.
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[Chuckle all you want, and feel free to run a Monty Haul campaign style circus.
Of course, that entirely depends on the goal of the campaign. I'm already playing in one campaign that has the feel of "Saving Private Ryan" in Full Plate. To offset that, for the same group I run a campaign that feels more like "The Mummy" or "The Three Musketeers." I give my players a little more lattitude in what they can do, and they appreciate that. They pay me back by creating really fun gaming sessions full of high energy combat and memorable Role Playing scenes. Everybody goes home happy.
Playing a little fast and loose with the rules does not make it "Monty Haul's Freewheeling Circus." Just like lawyering every rule and making every situation fit within the prescribed rules does not make a campaign "Balanced" or "Fun". I live in a world where the War on Terror is real, I don't want my bi-weekly gaming sessions to exist in that same world.Barsellius, my answer would be to House Rule a feat that says Female Warrior Characters from "that society" have a one time option of substituting CHA for STR on Attack and Damage rolls, and that it stays with them for the rest of their career (unless you allow re-training rules). On the flip side of that, don't be afraid to use it to your own advantage, especially if she gets attacked by someone prettier than her. Play it up, let the party be surrounded by a group of these "Amazons" and taken into custody. The situation is fraught with good RP fodder.
Be aware though, that you have to be equally willing to consider something just as bizarre for other characters, especially those who are not your GF. If one of your other players says "I want to be able make armor out of leather wrapped in linen and make it look like regular clothes," you'll have to think through the rules on that. (Coincidentally, armor like that has been found in the ruins of Troy. The linen functions the same way that silk did in oriental armors, its weave distributes the force of impact; particularly from arrows.)
Good luck with what you decide, and I hope it adds to your campaign in a positive way.
You might want to check out some of the Intimidation Feats and Barbarian Rage Powers available in Beta now.
They really make it so you don't need to wholesale violate the core rule structure re: ability modifiers, but still let CHA be a very useful stat by being able to apply non-magical Fear effects (and escalate them) without interfering with 'normal' melee/combat actions... Such a build would make Skill Focus:Intimidate a pretty decent investment, actually.
If you're interested in a non-uber-STR female Barbarian build, check out my PbP character "Yalka" here. She isn't so much high CHA (though will likely have +1 CHA mod before long / possible 1 level of Sorceror), but focuses on high DEX and CON (w/ 14 STR) using a Double Weapon along with Whirling Frenzy Rage Variant... Probably will take Combat Reflexes at some point to take advantage of Reach & high DEX = lots of AoOs.
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Quandary, while interesting, I think they have another concept on mind :P
anyway, in his homegame they have the right to use rules from other sourcebooks... aparently that was the idea about backward compatibility... (I don't say this for you Quandary, but another bunch that offer opriones less seriusly, and without understanding that this particular GM is trying to give an option to one of his players, outside of the games relationships non-withstanding)
The option already exist... yes something can be invented like a regional feat, this of course is part of the game in which every DM needs toc reate a trait or a feat to get thingsbetter related to his campaign... in the end this is just a personal matter in one table (or many if others decide to use similar applications)
Just as an aside- You can be very beautiful without a high charisma. Charisma is more about likability than it is about having a perfect body/face. Personality, attitude, mannerisms all make up charisma.
I've dated a bunch of women that were really hot but just damn painful to be around when they spoke.
QFT!
Letting the player attempt to add her CHA bonus to BAB? Oh come on. Grow a pair and tell the player that they made a decision and twisting game mechanics won't cover poor decision making.You should also drop-kick her in the head for good measure.
That would tend to impact the rest of the GM's life.
Just as an aside- You can be very beautiful without a high charisma. Charisma is more about likability than it is about having a perfect body/face. Personality, attitude, mannerisms all make up charisma.
I've dated a bunch of women that were really hot but just damn painful to be around when they spoke.
you mean you let your women speak?? Ummm eerr ahh I mean you dont find it painful when all women speak?? umm eree ahhh, well I ummm well, I dont what I mean!
you mean you let your women speak?? Ummm eerr ahh I mean you dont find it painful when all women speak?? umm eree ahhh, well I ummm well, I dont what I mean!Just as an aside- You can be very beautiful without a high charisma. Charisma is more about likability than it is about having a perfect body/face. Personality, attitude, mannerisms all make up charisma.
I've dated a bunch of women that were really hot but just damn painful to be around when they spoke.
::hands Pendagast his condiment of choice to go with the foot he's chewing on:: <G>
Is it really favoritism to show preference to the one person who will be remaining with you after the gaming group has gone home? The one person who share your bed with you? The one person who knows where all sharp/dangerous objects are in the house? The one who has access to your checking account?
Most importantly: the one you'd like to make snuggle bunnies with while picturing her PC in your head (and, dare you dream, get to dress up as said character for some real "role-playing")?
Favoritism = survival. Preference = snuggle bunnies.
Not married? Withhold your opinion until you have experience to qualify it please.
Basing attack bonuses on Charisma with a feat is, for a primary warrior, ultimately a choice only in style.
Still, creating a feat to allow using Cha modifier for attack rolls would be the equivalent of creating another Acrobatics or Stealth or Perception skill: A "basic item" feat every other Bard, Paladin, and Sorcerer in game will take to the degre that you might as well just lump it in as a class feature anyway and be done with it... and then the Wizards and Clerics will start griping about similar feats for Int and Wis to the degree of ending up with a 4E-hybrid-aberration where characters can pick up which stat they use even for AC in the most utter nonsense.
(( P.S: Nope, the Hot&Violent feat only applies to Weapon Damage rolls, I just read and re-read it. ))
OTOH, I did threaten to stab a pair of players once for ignoring the game because they were too busy being sappy at each other.
We have the common sense and good manners to leave all that at the door. Plus, if I tried anything, it'd probably go down something like this:
Me - I was thinking about last night....
Wife - Wait, was that the night we killed the Orcs, or the night the necromancer attacked?
Me - Oh, no. The *other* game.
Wife - Ah World of Darkness!
Me - *face plam*
When we're gaming, there's only one thing on our minds. Gaming! I am truly blessed.
Peace,
tfad
I respectfully disagree. But that doesn't mean that the feat-based solution is somehow wrong - ro deserving of a drop-kick.Letting the player attempt to add her CHA bonus to BAB? Oh come on. Grow a pair and tell the player that they made a decision and twisting game mechanics won't cover poor decision making.You should also drop-kick her in the head for good measure.
In case you couldn't tell, I was just kidding. If anyone does any drop-kicking in my relationship, it's definitely my wife, not me. :-)
For the record, I think there's absolutely, positively nothing wrong with allowing someone to use Cha instead of Str for attack rolls and damage.
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There is already precedent for allowing other ability scores to be the att/dmg score. Look at Weapon Finesse. We might as well just make a feat to encompass all of the abilities. It costs a feat, and only changes the attack bonus. The charismatic warrior is still going to have a lower strength that hinders her when she needs to jump or climb.
On the subject of SOs at the table, the second weekend I was with mine, I brought her to our weekly game. I ended up killing her character in the first hour. We're now happily married and just had our second anniversary. So take that. :P We also game with another married couple.
I respectfully disagree. But that doesn't mean that the feat-based solution is somehow wrong - ro deserving of a drop-kick.Letting the player attempt to add her CHA bonus to BAB? Oh come on. Grow a pair and tell the player that they made a decision and twisting game mechanics won't cover poor decision making.You should also drop-kick her in the head for good measure.In case you couldn't tell, I was just kidding. If anyone does any drop-kicking in my relationship, it's definitely my wife, not me. :-)
For the record, I think there's absolutely, positively nothing wrong with allowing someone to use Cha instead of Str for attack rolls and damage.
Alas, it was not obvious that you were not serious. :(
Agreed. For the sake of mechanics and exploits, call it an alternative class feature, then the high charisma classes can't exploit it.
I love my gamer wife, who I met at a D&D game. Do I show her favoritism? No. She would make my life miserable if if I gave her any less respect or challenge as I give the rest of the players.
Do I let her try combinations I wouldn't let other players try? Yes. Because she's been DMing almost as long as me and in our current group has more experience playing than any other player, so I am comfortable with her pushing her limits. Likewise, our two brand new players were giving distinct limits on their character options, while our "middle" experience player, having made it through Shackled City, was given a bit more leeway for Age of Worms.
Do I pay more attention to her at the table? Only during two events: if she happens to be the one directly across from me, which rarely happens, as she has her own seat she prefer. Or if her character for whatever reason should be in the spotlight. But that applies to everyone.
Currently, in Age of Worms, if I had to put the percentages of attention payed, it would be wife 15%, middle guy 30%, rookie A 20%, rookie B 35%. Just how its happening, due to how they interact and participate at the table and in the game.
Well, Oddly I actually expect MORE from my wife when she plays, She's usually the party caller, and as such I dont coddle her or let her get away with stuff.
IF Charisma applies to attack/damage,I would expect it to be something along the lines of Arcane strike or something magical in nature, not "im pretty so my steel is deadlier"
Besides, why did DnD give up on the comliness score?
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Well, Oddly I actually expect MORE from my wife when she plays, She's usually the party caller, and as such I dont coddle her or let her get away with stuff.
IF Charisma applies to attack/damage,I would expect it to be something along the lines of Arcane strike or something magical in nature, not "im pretty so my steel is deadlier"
Besides, why did DnD give up on the comliness score?
I suppose they decided that elt players chose their appareance or maybe they saw it as a part of charisma... or who knows :P
ok Pendergast your wife ask more of the game, then you apply to her rules that you would apply any other player who did the same :P no specialtreatment for being your wife :P itsjust that you know her more and know her level of experience :P
how more logical is to give a "magical bonus" just becuase it magic it doesn't mean it should solve everything...
the concept of a Red Sonja Warrior, attractive, barely clad and who does lots of damage, both for distracting enemies and for how she uses her weapon its a clasic for some reason... if she want to go for that its ok, the feat only says that she knows how to use her appeal to hurt her enemies more... I believe it doesn't work in non sentient enemies... but I am not sure.
STUFF
Great discussion going on here. :D
I was thinking about the AD&D Amazons. They got a bonus when their opponents underestimated them, because they were scantily clad, un-armored women. Something like that might totally apply - I know we use something similar in our games, modifying stuff based on one culture's perception of another.
It's the sort of thing that can really help with immersion, but was too "fluffy" to make the cut in the hard and fast world of 3.x.
Peace,
tfad
Is it really favoritism to show preference to the one person who will be remaining with you after the gaming group has gone home? The one person who share your bed with you? The one person who knows where all sharp/dangerous objects are in the house? The one who has access to your checking account?
Most importantly: the one you'd like to make snuggle bunnies with while picturing her PC in your head (and, dare you dream, get to dress up as said character for some real "role-playing")?
Favoritism = survival. Preference = snuggle bunnies.
Not married? Withhold your opinion until you have experience to qualify it please.
Yes, that's favoritism; it's showing preference to a "favorite." You can try to justify the motives for that favoritism all you like, but in the end that justification doesn't change what it is, nor its effects on the other players.
If anyone I was in a relationship with expected to be handed victories in a game - be it D&D, Pathfinder, Monopoly, or chess - and actually started a fight when I didn't cave, I'd probably laugh it off and wait 'til one of us developed a better sense of perspective. After all, why should I (and not my companion) be the one to give in? Given that, isn't simply equal treatment more reasonable?
Last time I brought my S.O. into a roleplaying game, we were both PCs and we spent half the game trying to bait or kill one another. And we had a great time doing it. It's a game, not a referendum o your feelings for each other. While a game isn't worth damaging your relationship over, IMO it's the partner who expects special treatment who's threatening the relationship over something as trivial as a game, not the person who's just playing the game.
And I don't have to have marched down the aisle to have opinions or experience with relationships.
Please refer to the definition of "tongue in cheek". And chill out for crying out loud.
Besides, why did DnD give up on the comliness score?
Perhaps because (thank God) there was never one other than obscure optional rules or homerules. =P
IMHO, not letting the player chose what his character looks like is as awful as forcing him to roll 8d30 to obtain his character's name.
I think "Weapon Finesse with Charisma" is a perfectly balanced feat. Let it add to Attack Bonus but not to damage and it's cool.
A question: why does the Hide Bikini have an Armor Check Penalty of -3? Are you kidding me? A bikini is more restricting than say a Chain Shirt? Bikinis should impose no ACP at all, even platemail bikinis.
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Just as an aside- You can be very beautiful without a high charisma. Charisma is more about likability than it is about having a perfect body/face. Personality, attitude, mannerisms all make up charisma.
I've dated a bunch of women that were really hot but just damn painful to be around when they spoke.
Yep.
Human Female (subtype sound-down)Frequency: Too often
why does the Hide Bikini have an Armor Check Penalty of -3?Chafing.
That's whyy ou wear SILK or something underneath!
One of the Order of the Stick comics has Elan learning a Prestige class that allows him the use CHA as a bonus to hit. It was supposed to be based on some obscure source book. The Flamboyant Swashbuckler prestige class or something. Anybody know if it was a joke or is a true source book out there?
I don't know about a feat or a class, but the 2nd level spell "WHIRLING BLADE" allows the substitution of INT or CHA when determining the melee attacks from the spell. (Spell Compendium Pg. 238) I affectionately call it my 'Ghetto Lightning Bolt' as it requires a "To Hit" on every enemy in a 60' line and doesn't work for crap when they actually have an armor class.