Do they exist?
Can they be made with magic, or alkenstar engineering?
Can only the alchemists of nex or thuvia make them, or were they introduced to Absalom by Keleshite traders, and are now available there? Are they made by the chanic leagure based on designs found in numeria?
Are any of those suitable? Or are there no glasses on golarion?
Yes they exist.
Brodert Quink is wearing a pair in his illustration.
The presence of the glassworks in Sandpoint, and more pertinently the availability of equipment such as the spyglass, would seem to convey some sophisticated knowledge of optics in Golarion.
That said, there are cultures on modern earth without ready access to optics, so I wouldn't imagine the technology is ubiquitous.
Also the herbalist in Falcon's Hollow wears a pair in an illustrarion printed in Hollows last hope.
Also the herbalist in Falcon's Hollow wears a pair in an illustrarion printed in Hollows last hope.
In the real world, use of optics to improve reading ability has a long history. Refer to Wikipedia!
Creative Director
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Glasses exist in Golarion, yes. We sometimes illustrate folks wearing them... but the vast majority of the time when we ask an artist to illustrate a person wearing glasses... we get a character back who looks like they went to a modern-day LensCrafters to get their glasses. So we don't do it too often.
But yes, they do exist.
Now I wonder how much would a pair of glasses cost in Golarion, a spyglass costs 1000gp and a magnifying glass 100gp after all...
Probably expensive enough.
I'm thinking much more old-west style classes, no thick stylsih frames or anything. Thanks all.
Contributor
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Glasses exist in Golarion, yes. We sometimes illustrate folks wearing them... but the vast majority of the time when we ask an artist to illustrate a person wearing glasses... we get a character back who looks like they went to a modern-day LensCrafters to get their glasses. So we don't do it too often. But yes, they do exist.
LensCrafter...sounds like a new feat. Maybe a prestige class?
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Director of Game Design
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What is interesting to note is that most early glasses were made out of carefully ground pieces of quartz, not glass, because glassmaking was not refined enough to make a piece of glass that you could use for this purpose.
But I digress...
-Jason
Hrm ... and thus perhaps a bit of an expansion could be made on the descriptions of the "eye" and "lens" magic items, to put a bit better accuracy on the materials they're made from.
I can't help but imagine that a pair of lenses from this time frame would weigh in at a pretty respectable amount. I know that the glasses from my youth ("chastity glasses") never failed to feel like I literally took a weight off of my face by the end of the day. I shudder to ponder how uncomfortable they would be when made from materials dating back several centuries...
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Contributor
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Given the fact that the very first adventure path included a coastal frontier town boasting a glass factory, I had imagined that glass production was at a higher level than in a more realistic medieval setting.
I seem to recall seeing a pair of Benjamin Franklin's glasses that were actually quite frail-looking. (I'm pretty sure I saw them in real life and not in that "National Treasure" movie. ;) ) Based on the artwork, I had placed the craft at about the British colonial era's level of sophistication.
If the majority of glass production is not that advanced in Golarion, does that mean that most windows do not have glass panes?
As a character with glasses in real life, I support, endorse, and encourage the ongoing inclusion of glasses in Golarion.
As a character with glasses in real life, I support, endorse, and encourage the ongoing inclusion of glasses in Golarion.
You just say you use them so flamers won't hit you in the face. =P
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Creative Director
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Glass production is pretty high in Golarion. In the real world, glass was actually invented a LONG time ago, in Mesopotamia or Egypt; in Golarion, which has a lot more magic than the real world, and isn't supposed to be a "medieval world" on top of that (there's just as much inspiration taken from ancient Rome, Atlantis, modern day, Egypt, etc., and if we wanted Golarion to be a "realistic" medieval world, we would not have based its rules on D&D), glass production is not commonplace, but it's common enough that a peasant won't freak out if a building has glass windows.
The glassworks in Sandpoint was included specifically to give the town a unique and unusual industry to help give the town more personality. As a result, a lot of Sandpoint's windows have glass panes. That's not necessarily the case everywhere, but it can be if you want it to be. Basically, glass is common enough in Golarion that if an author mentions a glass window or a glass cup or something like that, we aren't as editors going to get worked up about it at all.
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Contributor
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Thanks for the clarification, James. It's great to get these little details about the setting.
Sorry to imply that Golarion was meant to be "medieval." That wasn't my intent. I've seen Paizonians' assertions to that effect in a couple of places before. I was trying to provide a point of reference.
I had imagined that any glass windows would be of uneven thickness, still very clear but distorting images beyond them. I'd imagine that Sandpoint might be different slightly better, given the Kaijitsu family's skill and the massive scale of the Glassworks.
But getting back to glasses, I like the idea of having such lenses be common enough to warrant including magical variations as treasure more frequently.
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Director of Game Design
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James is, of course, right here. My post was in reference to optical quality glass, which is much harder to make. Early glass, which was quite common, was either uneven (making for poor glass to look through), or had problems with bubbles. Both of these being the primary reasons that quartz was used first. That said, with magic in our world, more perfect glass is, of course, possible, and some might even have it without the aid of magic.
Jason
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James is, of course, right here. My post was in reference to optical quality glass, which is much harder to make. Early glass, which was quite common, was either uneven (making for poor glass to look through), or had problems with bubbles. Both of these being the primary reasons that quartz was used first. That said, with magic in our world, more perfect glass is, of course, possible, and some might even have it without the aid of magic.
Jason
Its funny, the chinese invented sunglasses by using smokey quartz lenses in the middle-ages to protect their eyes from the sun.
Now, how about contacts?
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What is interesting to note is that most early glasses were made out of carefully ground pieces of quartz, not glass, because glassmaking was not refined enough to make a piece of glass that you could use for this purpose.
But I digress...
-Jason
The earliest were polished down with Diamonds...now you know what a Diamond is used for.
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Director of Game Design
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Its funny, the chinese invented sunglasses by using smokey quartz lenses in the middle-ages to protect their eyes from the sun.James is, of course, right here. My post was in reference to optical quality glass, which is much harder to make. Early glass, which was quite common, was either uneven (making for poor glass to look through), or had problems with bubbles. Both of these being the primary reasons that quartz was used first. That said, with magic in our world, more perfect glass is, of course, possible, and some might even have it without the aid of magic.
Jason
Yup, although these had no corrective quality iirc...
Boy.. that is a small pile of knowledge I never thought would come up in a chat, messageboard or otherwise. I know some of it came from my medieval studies classes in college.. and some from Wiki...
Anyway..
Jason
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Its funny, the chinese invented sunglasses by using smokey quartz lenses in the middle-ages to protect their eyes from the sun.
Its also tied with the invention of the Umbrella, the Outdoor lounge, and drinking Alcohol. So having invaded Mongolia in 1523, General Chang has his servants erect a nice lounge out by the Pool, with Umbrella, Sunglasses and some drinking Alcohol.
The Chinese invented a Good Time.
What is interesting to note is that most early glasses were made out of carefully ground pieces of quartz, not glass, because glassmaking was not refined enough to make a piece of glass that you could use for this purpose.
But I digress...
-Jason
Actually, oddly enough, the glasses I had envisioned were indeed made of quartz.
As a character with glasses in real life, I support, endorse, and encourage the ongoing inclusion of glasses in Golarion.You just say you use them so flamers won't hit you in the face. =P
Fey leaves are pretty fire resistant. They do keep sand our of my eyes, however, when muscly meat shields come along and kick copies of the Book of Nine Swords in my face.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Larger issue: Glasses, like crutches, seem to be real-world solutions for problems that the denizens of Golarion ought to address with magic.
The gods give their followers the authority to cure blindness, cure disease, and restore lost limbs, but not to correct profound near-sightedness with astygmatism, or reverse birth defects?
I imagine that spectacles are a sign of the middle-class. The poor can't afford them, and the rich handle poor eyesight with arcane magic.
The vikings new how to make smooth optical quartz lenses believed to have been used as an aid in lighting fires.
Even in the stone age people used naturally occuring glass such as obsidian as a tool and ornament.
The Romans were expert glass makers and are believed to have created the first double paned windows.
Corrective lenses are believed to have been used as early as the 9th century, while the first wearable eyeglasses appeared somewhere near the 13th century.
All this I learned watching television.....
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Stuff...All this I learned watching television.....
Were you by chance watching What the Romans did for Us from BBC? I love that show.
I think the Carthaginians created double paned windows first. The romans definitely adapted it, however, into a consistent form. The romans used a glass of water to create a fairly useless magnifying glass that only helped if you already had trouble seeing, and usually only one letter at a time.
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On this topic, I recommend reading Ancient Inventions by Peter James & Nick Thorpe - a lot of "modern" inventions aren't so modern. The companion book, Ancient Mysteries is full of great game ideas as well.
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Creative Director
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Larger issue: Glasses, like crutches, seem to be real-world solutions for problems that the denizens of Golarion ought to address with magic.
The gods give their followers the authority to cure blindness, cure disease, and restore lost limbs, but not to correct profound near-sightedness with astygmatism, or reverse birth defects?
I imagine that spectacles are a sign of the middle-class. The poor can't afford them, and the rich handle poor eyesight with arcane magic.
The game doesn't really model things like broken bones, but nevertheless, glasses and crutches DO exist in Golarion. Sure, there are healing spells and things like remove blindness, but there's a LOT more people suffering from broken legs and impaired vision in Golarion than there are spellcasters able (and willing) to cast restorative spells on them. And most of those that ARE willing ask for a lot more money than the average person will ever see to pay for said attention. It's also something that, if an NPC is more interesting with glasses (like Brodert Quink) we'll give them glasses. But again... since it's really difficult to get artists to depict glasses that don't look anachronistic, THAT'S the primary reason why few of the NPCs in Golarion are ever pictured wearing glasses.
In other words...
the setting is made better by their inexplicable presence than their inexplicable absence.
Um ... hrm, near as I can tell, the only spells that would adequately address flawed eyesight are heal and regeneration, maaaaaybe restoration. Removal of blindness is not the same thing IMO as removal of flawed eyesight - if it is, and other such medical situations are similarly treatable by the lower-level spells, then that would be of significant interest to know about.
Unnecessary flavor text? Perhaps - but potentially vital information nonetheless.
Meh, when a guy can get drunk and not remember becoming a god... I've got no problems with apparently inexplicable bits of mundane gear. I'm less intrigued by existence of eyeglasses and more interested in the possible existence of the monocle
I agree that cure blindness wouldn't address underlying issues such as age or (what we know of) biology. In a modern sense I could see it curing the kind of damage done by getting laser pointed or having a staring contest with sun.
I'm less intrigued by existence of eyeglasses and more interested in the possible existence of the monocle
Hear, hear!
I agree that cure blindness wouldn't address underlying issues such as age or (what we know of) biology.
Actually the spell says "Remove blindness/deafness cures blindness or deafness (your choice), whether the effect is normal or magical in nature."... clerics cure the diseased and make the blind see as in biblical lore, period. However, as James pointed out, Golarian clerics are of a mind considerably more mercenary that good ol' Jesus, so it's fair to assume such miracles are reasonably uncommon.
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Creative Director
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I agree that cure blindness wouldn't address underlying issues such as age or (what we know of) biology.Actually the spell says "Remove blindness/deafness cures blindness or deafness (your choice), whether the effect is normal or magical in nature."... clerics cure the diseased and make the blind see as in biblical lore, period. However, as James pointed out, Golarian clerics are of a mind considerably more mercenary that good ol' Jesus, so it's fair to assume such miracles are reasonably uncommon.
I would say that remove blindness would cure partially impaired vision like nearsightedness... but still, that's a 3rd level spell. Not that high level for PCs and Adventurers and heroes and villains... but pretty dang high level for the vast majority of the world. A remove blindness spell, by the book, costs 150 gp, which is a fair amount of money. It also requires a 5th level caster, which is probably harder to come by than 150 gp.
If you have a good-natured 5th level cleric who casts that spell for free, that's fine, but when you think of eyeglasses as basically being about the same cost as a magnifying glass... that's still less expensive at 100 gp.
Plus, I suspect that even if someone DID have the gold, if he's not someone the local cleric WANTS to traffic with, he'd be hosed anyway.
Medieval glasses were associated with reading: Period books of hours sometimes had cases for glasses built into their covers. The glasses weren't of high enough quality to comfortably correct most vision problems, but they could improve vision to make reading easier. Those who didn't read, didn't bother with them.
The issue wasn't glass quality, but the time's poor understanding of optics. Optical science improved drastically during the Renaissance.
A couple of surviving medieval European glasses have lenses of amethyst, so the Chinese didn't have the copyright on cool...
...glass production is not commonplace, but it's common enough that a peasant won't freak out if a building has glass windows.
But they might fly into them a lot!
A couple of surviving medieval European glasses have lenses of amethyst, so the Chinese didn't have the copyright on cool...I am SO using that idea for a character. Thanks for sharing the info!
Amethyst ? Really now? ^_^ What other kewl materials have lenses/glasses/monocles been fashioned out of?
What about amber?
What about amber?She objected to being sliced into waffers to make glasses... :p
LoL!
Let us hope no one made slices of her brain to brew into a Love Potion #9... O.o
What about amber?She objected to being sliced into waffers to make glasses... :p
Studpuffin feels the pull of his avian brethren from another thread...calling...calling...
I'm less intrigued by existence of eyeglasses and more interested in the possible existence of the monocle
Montlarion Jeggare has one in Guide to Korvosa.
I think of cure blindness/disease as a bit more blunt, it can cure full on blindness, but something else is needed for the delicate treatment to remove short-sightedness.
Anyway, magic is like laser eye surgery, expensive, who'll certainly have to travel to the practitioner and as in the case of real-world laser eyes surgery, you may just prefer to use your perfectly functioning glasses than f@#@ with your eyes in away that could go wrong in an anti-magic field, or wierd magic radiation.
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A large industry like the Sandpoint glassworks very likely does not have all of its workers living inside the glassworks. Only the apprentices and younger workers would have been living inside the glassworks. In addition, the Kajitsu family has a presence in Magnimar going back a century. Very likely there are other glassworkers that Amekio would seek to hire. So there are likely some glassworkers in Sandpoint that were not working the night shift when the goblins slaughtered everybody inside the glassworks. Then there's always the simple solution of hiring more workers form outside Sandpoint.
In our local game we escorted Ameiko to Magnimar where she sold off some items from her estates to raise money and went about hiring a few workers and a new manager to run the glassworks for her. A large and prosperous industry like the glassworks would be a great opportunity for lots of low skill workers looking to move up to a better life if they can learn a new skill.
When does the Advanced Glass Guide come out? :D
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For some historical context, on our Earth:
•Handheld magnifiers were certainly in use in the High Middle Ages. Friar (Roger) Bacon, the same dude famous for his formulation of gunpowder, did a study of optics as part of his Opus Majus that aped even older works.
•Hand-held or rivet-frame eyeglasses for farsightedness (convex lenses, think () shaped) were certainly in use by the 1350's. Tommaso da Modena painted a cardinal, Hugh Saint-Cher wearing them. At this time, they were likely an "early adopter" innovation only for the wealthy or those whose livelihood depending on writing: clergymen, barristers, and the educated.
•Renaissance Florence, known for its glassmaking, started churning out eyeglasses in the 1400's (including possibly concave lenses) and from there they spread to the rest of Europe.
•By the 1500's, basic reading glasses were common enough that there were street peddlers and boxes of eyeglasses available.
•Also in the early 1500's, "thread loop" glasses offer the first real way to anchor eyeglasses to the ear.
•The 1600's sees a boom in newspapers and news pamphlets, and with it, a mass of people to read them.
•Bifocals date from the 1760's, popularly attributed to that Ben Franklin fellow, and they could be custom-ordered ~1780's.
Style: Note that early eyeglasses would not have the spring temples. Instead, the earliest had a riveted joint that would hold the glasses (hopefully) by friction on the joint. Renaissance glasses resemble what we would call today, pince-nez, and the variety in materials meant softer frames could be pinched around the nose. In the early 1500's, "thread loop" were invented: essentially, there was a cord at each end of the frame that would go around the ear, with the cord adjusted to fit. The modern temple eyeglasses were invented ~1730 by a British lensmaker, Edward Scarlett, who advertised them.
Round lenses were more or less universal until the late 1700's. Note that most of these styles were not sturdy enough to march into combat with, so during the Renaissance (e.g. the English Civil War), soldiers largely stowed them until in camp. Eyeglass cases have been around since at least the 1400's.
Price: ~1460's: "Ordinary “run-of-the-mill” spectacles cost the buyer just 2 or 3 soldi (shillings). Middle priced ones were selling for 6 to 18 soldi. The finest examples with quality crystal/glass lenses and gold or silver frames were priced at 1 ducat (the equivalent of 82 soldi). So who could afford them? As an example, a mason from Florence in the 15th century made 17 soldi per day so multiple pairs were frequently ordered."
References of Early Eyeglasses in Action:
—?, ~1488 "The scholar, Periander in his library with printed text." (Periander being a 6th century Greek scholar, depicted contemporarily.)
—Jacob Cornelisz van Oostsanen, <1500: "The Ill-Matched Lovers" Note the box of glasses on the bottom-left.
—Rembrandt (yes that one), 1624: "The Spectacle-Pedlar". Note the old peasants are the ones trying on the glasses.
—Rembrandt, 1627: "Parable of the Rich Man.
—Adriaen van Ostade ~1600's "A vendor of spectacles showing his wares to a woman at her spinning wheel, while her family look on" Etching of earlier Dutch original.
—Article on Rivet Spectacles
—Broadsheet of Historical Styles, ~1760
—Pragmatic Costumer blog on Renaissance Spectacles.