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1d4, 19-20/x2. Most folks will use a dagger as an off-hand weapon or as a back-up, but nobody seems to use it as their primary weapon, certainly not at high levels. But I'd wager that lowly knives have probably killed more people throughout history than almost any other weapon [/hyperbole].
Anyway, is there anything we can do to make them more interesting?
Thoughts:
a) No need. Dagger killing already happens as a result of sneak attack extra damage dice. But there's nothing about a dagger that makes it a better choice for sneak attacks than a short sword. And what about no rogues?
b) Most people who die by knife are commoners, etc. w/ 1 HD for whom 1d4 is scary. Yeah, but heroes do occasionally die from a knife in the gut in books and movies. I kinda' like that danger. Would that always be a sneak attack? What about knife fights?
I still want to see daggers be more dangerous...
Ideas:
1) Increase the crit damage to x3. (Still ... ooooh, 3d4! Scary!)
2) Make masterwork daggers cheaper, maybe 102 gp, so there are more sharp knives floating around.
3) Create a mechanic that works like two-weapon attacks. Call it "Second Strike." Anybody wielding a dagger* can make a second attack vs. the same opponent, even if they only normally have one attack per round. The first attack is at -4 and the second is at -8 (just like two-weapon attack when the off-hand is light). Now create a feat called Improved Second Strike or something that reduces those penalties to -2 and -2, again just like two-weapon fighting with the feat. Toss a Dex 13 prereq or even a BAB +1 to keep everyone from taking it. Suddenly daggers become scary again at low levels and still a viable option for mid level characters as well. Maybe create a Greater Second Strike that allows sneak attack damage to apply to both attacks! Now high level rogues might keep using daggers.
* I originally imagined this for any light weapon, but I can't see the two lightning quick attacks with a light mace. Maybe any light weapon weighing under 1 lb, or just say: dagger, punching dagger, sai, singham (not quite sure what those last two are ;)
Any other ideas?
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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In a game system that hewed more closely to real-world simulation, rules might reflect that daggers and knives (a) are fast, (b) require very little space to use effectively, (c) are useful for poking through eye-slots in helmets, and (d) are concealable.
- Current editions of D&D don't use weapon speed factors.
- Current editions of D&D don't have space requirements.
- Current editions of D&D don't have weapon-vs.-armor-type modifications.
- In current editions of D&D, PC's can always buy gloves that store weapons in extra-dimensional space.
I agree with Kalyth: knives are popular weapons in Real Life (tm) because they're common and they're easy to hide, not because there's something particularly deadly about a dagger as opposed to a sword or a spear.
In D&D (tm), there's not really much difference between a dagger and a short sword, but there's a huge gap between light weapons and two-handed weapons (which get better Str bonus damage and Power Attack damage). I don't know what the best solution is, though.
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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The big advantage daggers have is that they're easy to conceal. Currently, they grant a bonus to slight of hand checks to coneal them on your body if you're searched for weapons, but that is a situation that doesn't come up that often in most games. The real issue is how easy is it to hide using the stealth skill with a weapon out. Currently, there's no difference to hiding with a greatsword in hand compared to unarmred or with a dagger.
I suggest adding a penalty to stealth for having a weapon in hand - it increases your profile and if it's metal, can reflect light. A simple way to reflect this would be to apply a -2 circumstance penalty for stealth with a martial or exotic weapon in hand, and an additional -2 for one handed weapon and a -5 for a two handed weapon in hand. This would result in daggers and other light simple weapons not having any penalty, which would make daggers best suited for stealthily approaching and sneak attacking victims.
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Blackdirge Publishing has a great Nimbleknife prestige class for those melee characters wanting a little more dagger-dealing doom.
It doesn't aid the dagger specifically, but one house rule I've often used while GMing is that when squeezing or prone, a PC can only use a light weapon. As a result most of my PCs carried a dagger, handaxe, or short sword for these situations.
I think a lot of people who have already posted have hit the nail on the head (with a dagger?). The key advantage of the dagger is its concealability and its commonality. Many area in my homebrew campaigns have laws that forbid the carrying of weapons, meaning that they need to be concealed (which still risks discovery and the following consequences). With a few exceptions, these areas don't frown on the carrying of daggers and quarterstaffs, as these are seen as tools and walking aids as well as weapons. I've always found it to be confusing how many nobles, high priests, etc. are perfectly ok with heavily armoured and armed adventurers wandering around in their temples, cities, etc.
A quick thought as far as daggers go -- I would potentially look at ruling that daggers can be drawn as a free action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity due to their small size, low weight, and ability to be stored just about anywhere. This would allow greater use as a missile weapon, and I would argue would make it a more useful sneak attack / surprise weapon. Just a thought, and I'd welcome any input as to if this would be a good idea or not.
I'd like to see it cheaper, so people can specialize in throwing daggers much easier.
This I can see. Additionally, besides concealment, daggers are also one of the easier weapons to use while in a grapple. They are a light-weight weapon that has a higher than normal threat range (19-20), can be used in melee or at range, in either or both hands with fewer penalties and have more than one damage type (S/P). While many other light weapons do more damage, few have the versatility of a trusty dagger.
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You could also add a weapons effect to initaitive:
WARNING!! What follows is an off-the-cuff idea that has not been tested in any way, shape or form and adds a level of complexity to the proceedings.
Base effect weapons average base damage. So Longsword is a d8, so base modifier -5.
Light weapons have a penalty 2 better and two handed have one 2 worse, so a dagger has a penalty of -1 while a greataxe has a penalty of -9.
People dual wielding would use the primary weapon.
Magic could mitigate this as +1/2 pluses rounding up, so +1 at +1 or +2, +2 at +3/~+4 and +3 and +5. This gives a reason to have pure base pluses again as well. Bonus.
For natural weapons, possibly use the CMB bonus as a penalty for creatures of Large size or greater.
Spells could be adjudicated as penalty equal to their level.
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There was once a time when you rolled initiative every round. The roll was modified by your weapon speed or by the spell you were casting.
Honestly I still like system. You never knew from round to round what the order was going to be. I really reflected the changing tide of a battle. It also made it a reason to consider what weapon or spell you were about to cast. Sometimes it made all the difference in the world.
... Additionally, besides concealment, daggers are also one of the easier weapons to use while in a grapple. ... While many other light weapons do more damage, few have the versatility of a trusty dagger.
I have always felt that the dagger's main place is in the grapple. Grappling itself could use some review. Daggers (knives too) are weapons I feel could slip in between two people wrestling it out. You just cant do that with the larger weapons.
Weapons of last resort.
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You could also add a weapons effect to initaitive:
WARNING!! What follows is an off-the-cuff idea that has not been tested in any way, shape or form and adds a level of complexity to the proceedings.
** spoiler omitted **
I have similarly suggested (in another thread) that adding (or reintroducing) weapon speed into initiative would be another way to differentiate weapons and weapon tactics. I like the system you propose. It is simple and straight forward and requires very little extra effort when resolving initiative.
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There was once a time when you rolled initiative every round. The roll was modified by your weapon speed or by the spell you were casting.
Honestly I still like system. You never knew from round to round what the order was going to be. I really reflected the changing tide of a battle. It also made it a reason to consider what weapon or spell you were about to cast. Sometimes it made all the difference in the world.
/minor threadjack/
Hey KROME! I remember a day not long ago when you'd reached your 500th post and you celebrated (I think that was you....?) Anyhow, I'm well on my way to 700 and I don't post very often... just when I think I can add a bit of value or have a question.... thanks for the inspiration - I thought I'd never even reach 500, but I made it. Okay, back to the topic. /end threadjack/YES! I still invoke the "roll initiative every round" mechanic - my players tend to really like it, so I make it an option. Also I remember the weapon speed modifier and casting time element. That sure did make it a mystery - - - now, I've got Mrs. Super-initiative going first every round (thats the Evoker-type female character at the table who has improved initiative and a very high dex). It gets a little predictable, so as a DM I've improved on causing they type of distractions I typically try to cause as a player, just to get the jump on her (well, him, ... you know what I mean a la Gamers II).
Take care.
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There was once a time when you rolled initiative every round. The roll was modified by your weapon speed or by the spell you were casting.
Honestly I still like system. You never knew from round to round what the order was going to be. I really reflected the changing tide of a battle. It also made it a reason to consider what weapon or spell you were about to cast. Sometimes it made all the difference in the world.
I also liked that system. I believe it was scraped mostly to streamline combat by removing all of the extra die rolling. Of course, you would also then have to take into consideration how to handle conditions and effects that last beyond one round, as well as things like delaying etc. On the positive side, it also has huge tactical implications, as one could not now count on the order of combat in the next round. I would not mind seeing a change like this. I doubt it will happen officially, but I may house rule something like this into my home game.
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I am currently dual-wielding daggers on my current character, because it fits the concept of him. Sure, he COULD use those bigger swords and such, but hes just to full of himself to do so. He can use daggers and still be a threat, yeah hes cocky like that :) That being said, on topic, if you really wanted to try and make daggers more viable, perhaps both a crit range of 18-20 AND a x3 multiplier? Not a math wiz, so I dont know if that borked or not, but it might do something to help it catch up no? Please, by all means shoot me down if Im talking crazy :)
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That raising the threat mod and crit multiplier idea would be a little too much.
Not disagreeing with you, just curious as to why both increases works out to be too much, and just one or the other isn't enough. My D&D-fu is weak, after all im currently playing the ONLY D&D char Ive ever played, just getting into the hobby in early February of this year.
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Blackdirge Publishing has a great Nimbleknife prestige class for those melee characters wanting a little more dagger-dealing doom.
It has some potential.
There's an issue with crit ranges that extends beyond the weapon itself.
Increase the crit damage to x3.[/b] (Still ... ooooh, 3d4! Scary!)
See, it's not the 3d4 vs 2d4 that's the problem. It's the Strength bonus, Enhancement Bonus, Weapon Specialization, Weapon Training, Favored Enemy, etc, bonuses that cause the problem with crits.
If you have a 19-20 crit range weapon, you can assume that it will become a 17-20 range as soon as it can by anyone that is using it as their primary weapon.
If you have a x3 weapon, you can bet it will become a x4 weapon with the new Critical feat (or Fighter Weapon Mastery.. x5 then?).
So if your normal attack is 1d4 + 20ish, suddenly you get 3d4 + 60ish. It's not just an extra ~4.5 damage.. it's an extra ~24.5 damage (over the x2 crit).
...
Personally, I think the fact that it's the highest damage modal for a light simple weapon (1d4 19-20/x2), plus it has the highest throwing increment (20' as opposed to say a club's 10'), plus it has the added bonus to concealment on top of that... well, that makes it the "best" weapon of it's class and size already.
It's finessable, useable in a grapple, lowest penalties in offhand for TWF, and can simultaneously be used for Rapid Shot on top of that. All with an extended crit range (not a 20/x2 weapon like most simple weapons).
If you want something more than this, you have to get into Martial or Exotic weapons, or feats that add functionality. The base weapon has more than enough as it stands.
Kukri is a martial weapon.
Daggers shouldn't be better. It's a basic "weapon" that has many uses already and generally in warfare only saw use in a grapple with someone in plate armor to find weak spots to stab into... you know, like sneak attacking. It was never meant to stand up to real weapons. It's something you go if everything goes wrong, not to stand up to that guy with the greatsword.
Daggers do just fine, for all the reasons mentioned above (19-20/x2 is *good* for a simple weapon, melee + thrown, use in a grapple, all that). Really the best comparison is a short sword - higher damage, but can't be thrown.
I had a wicked Rogue/Assassin in my epic game who was focused on daggers, two-weapon fighting, rapid shot, haste - had 7 or 8 attacks per round, each doing a decent chunk of damage even without sneak attack (18 strength, +5 daggers). [Not to mention when he picked up Storm of Throws..]
As someone said, very very versatile - that can be a huge asset when you focus on the weapon.
Alternate universe version of that character:
HP 395; Init +10; Spd 50; AC:43 (Flatfooted:43 Touch:28);
Full (Hasted) Attack: +41/+41/36/31/26 (1d3+20+1d6, +6 Adamantine Dagger) AND +40/35/30/25 (1d3+14+2d6, +5 Dagger) AND +40 (1d3+14+2d6, +5 Dagger) - 17-20 Crit range - Fort Save DC 35 or die upon crit.
RF: +2 Bonus on Saves vs. Fear, +1 attack bonus with thrown weapons; AL CG;
SV Fort +29, Ref +30, Will +18;
STR 30, DEX 30, CON 24, INT 22, WIS 18, CHA 18.
Skills: Hide +88, Move Silently +86, Tumble +65,
Appraise +12, Balance +44, Bluff +13, Climb +63, Concentration +14, Diplomacy +20, Disable Device +15, Disguise +15, Escape Artist +11, Forgery +7, Gather Information +10, Heal +5, Intimidate +40, Jump +76, Listen +9, Literacy +1, Open Lock +19, Ride +16, Search +13, Sense Motive +21, Sleight of Hand +23, Speak Language +3, Spot +22, Survival +5, Swim +16, Use Magic Device +30, Use Rope +11.
Feats: Cleave, Combat Reflexes, Devastating Critical: Dagger, Great Cleave, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, Greater Weapon Focus: Dagger, Greater Weapon Specialization: Dagger, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Critical: Dagger, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Overwhelming Critical: Dagger, Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting, Point Blank Shot, Power Attack, Precise Shot, Quick Draw, Rapid Shot, Shield Proficiency, Simple Weapon Proficiency, Storm of Throws, Two-Weapon Defense, Two-Weapon Fighting, Two-Weapon Rend, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus: Dagger, Weapon Specialization: Dagger.
Flaws: Vulnerable, Weak Will.
Weapons:
+6 Adamantine Dagger: Anarchic, Returning, Shock, Bane (NaN gp);
+5 Adamantine Dagger: Returning (75,002 gp);
+5 Dagger: Anarchic, Bane, Distance, Returning (200,302 gp);
+5 Adamantine Dagger: Returning (75,002 gp);
+5 Dagger: Distance, Returning, Flaming, Shock (162,302 gp);
+5 Adamantine Dagger: Returning (75,002 gp);
+5 Silver, Alchemical Dagger: Returning (72,322 gp);
+5 Silver, Alchemical Dagger: Returning (72,322 gp);
+5 Iron, Cold Dagger: Returning (74,304 gp);
+5 Iron, Cold Dagger: Returning (74,304 gp);
+2 Crossbow, hand: Anarchic (32,400 gp);
+1 Bolts, crossbow (10): Bane (1,670 gp);
Frost Brand (54,475 gp).
+1 Silk Shirt: Shadow, Improved, Silent Moves, Improved (31,170 gp).
Goods: Coin: pp (2500) (2,500 pp);
Wondrous: Vestments of the Mind and Body, Full (+6 all stats, +3 insight bonus to AC, +6 to Climb, Balance, Concentration, Search, Sense Motive, and Diplomacy checks) (432,000 gp);
Wondrous: Mantle of great stealth (242,000 gp);
Wondrous: Kel`nator`s Fingers (True strike 3/day & Shocking Grasp 5th level 3/day, & +10 competence bonus to disable device, open locks, and sleight of hand checks.) (50,800 gp);
Wondrous: Ioun Stone, Pale Green [Prism] (30,000 gp);
Wondrous: Ioun Stone, Dusty Rose [Prism] (5,000 gp);
Wondrous: Ioun Stone, Dark Blue [Rhomboid] (10,000 gp);
Wondrous: Heward`s Handy Haversack (2,000 gp);
Wand: Invisibility, Greater (7) (Charges: 15) (6,300 gp);
Wondrous: Deck of Illusions (8,100 gp);
Wondrous: Bracers of Armor +10 (100,000 gp);
Wondrous: Boots of Swiftness (256,000 gp);
Wondrous: Belt of Giant Strength +6 (36,000 gp);
Wondrous: Bag of Holding, type II (5,000 gp);
Wondrous: Armband of Use Magical Device (20,000 gp);
Wondrous: Amulet of Natural Armor +5 & Health +6 (86,000 gp);
Wand: Magic Missile (9) (Charges: 40) (5,400 gp);
Wand: Invisibility (3) (Charges: 50) (4,500 gp);
Wand: Dimension Door (7) (Charges: 25) (10,500 gp);
Wand: Darkvision (3) (Charges: 33) (2,970 gp);
Wand: Alter Self (3) (Charges: 33) (2,970 gp);
Wand: Cure Critical Wounds (7) (Charges: 33) (13,860 gp);
Staff: Spheres (Charges: 22) (100,485 gp);
Staff: Abjuration (Charges: 50) (65,000 gp);
Scroll: Teleport, Greater (13) x3, Teleport (9) x4 (11,325 gp);
Rod: Rulership (60,000 gp);
Ring: Chaotic Fury (250,000 gp);
Ring: Universal Energy Resistance, Greater (308,000 gp);
Potion: Cure Serious Wounds (5) x4 (750 gp).
Here's an idea... bring speed factor back. Dagger speed factor was +2 if I recall, whereas two-handed sword was +10. For those who may not have played back then, you wanted low on your init roll and so the speed factors really helped dagger wielders go first. It was cool, simple, and gave some love to lighter weapons. I'm sorely tempted to houserule speed factors back into my games just because our group is advanced enough to be able to handle them and I like the additional level of flavor the rule provides.
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Mosaic,
I'm not an expert on medieval history, but I remember reading that a lot of deaths caused by daggers/knives were due to a lot of arguments and fights happening at the table (between people who were using daggers/knives for eating and cutting bread). Table manners and etiquette were invented to prevent such deaths (who, from our POV, would have appeared rude and aggressive).
Also, daggers were cheaper than a sword (which also were considered "superior weapons" and in many countries restricted to guards/military or knights). Even if they could have bought them, few commoners or peasants could afford a sword. And, they were easier to conceal and use in close-quarters (as others have pointed out). Many cutthroats favored them for that reason -- easy to hide and use while "grappling" with a victim.
Finally, the dagger can also be thrown without burning a feat, *and* it has a relatively good crit range for a simple weapon (besides, starknife already fulfills the 1D4/X3 niche).
You want daggers to be better? Me, too. And longswords and rapiers, for that matter. All of them are just tools; their effectiveness depends on the user. So here's what I propose:
Weapon proficiency grants a +1 damage bonus per 2 points of BAB when using manufactured weapons.
Done. Now fighters are pretty scary, especially because crits of 19-20/x2 become MUCH more fearsome than crit ranges of 20/x2. Hit with a dagger by a 10th level fighter with 18 Str = 1d4+9 (with weapon training: 1d4+11). Critical: 2d4+18 (or 2d4+22). That's fairly substantial damage now!
It's not the size of the damage die, but how you use it.
Daggers are very deadly because, as has been said, they can be used unexpected. It's deadlyness does not come from the damage it does when wielded against a knight with a broadsword.
So I think the dagger is perfectly okay as it is. To make it as deadly as it could be, you'd have to have special options when using it. Like concealing it, using it in grapple and such. Also a lot of good opportunities for feats.
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You want daggers to be better? Me, too. And longswords and rapiers, for that matter. All of them are just tools; their effectiveness depends on the user. So here's what I propose:
Weapon proficiency grants a +1 damage bonus per 2 points of BAB when using manufactured weapons.
I've thought this would be a good rule addition for a while - a more experienced fighter, of any class, ought to do more damage per hit. I'd be fine with +1 per 2 levels or even +1 per level, basically, just add BAB to damage.
To everyone, thanks for the discussion on the issue of daggers. A lot of good insight. Any reaction to the Second Strike idea from my original post? Basically getting a second attack with same light weapon using the same penalty structure as two-weapon fighting. Interesting? Useful? Balanced?
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The Scarred Lands setting had an optional set of Weapon Speed rules where the speed of a weapon was either Fast (daggers), Medium (most swords, clubs, axes) or Slow (most ranged weapons, two handed weapons and polearms). Medium weapons functioned normally, but Fast weapons had their attack progression based on +4 instead of +5, and Slow weapons had iterative progression +6 instead of +5.
So a 9th level Fighter with a Longsword would get two attacks at +9 amd +4. The same 9th level Fighter with a Dagger (or similar 'Fast' weapon) would get three attacks at +9, +5 and +1. With a Glaive (or similar 'Slow' weapon) he'd get two attacks at +9 and +3.
It was a neat sort of idea.
*I* think Daggers are fine as is. They are one of the most effective simple weapons that functions as both melee and ranged, and remain light enough to be carried in significant amounts (unlike, say, Clubs or Throwing Axes).
If I really wanted to represent the armor-piercing functionality of daggers, I'd consider using some tweak on armor-as-DR (DR 1 for medium armors, DR 2 for heavy armors, in addition to their armor bonus), but treating the DR of armor as DR/Piercing, and not DR/-.
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Weapon proficiency grants a +1 damage bonus per 2 points of BAB when using manufactured weapons.
Back in Alpha that was one of my number one suggestions to make the Fighter more fun.
+1 damage / 2 Fighter class levels (round down, so +1 damage at 1st level, +2 at 3rd level, etc. all the way to +10 damage at 19th level).
And then, the Fighter would be able to pick up a Feat (or have a class ability?) that works like Power Attack in reverse, allowing him to sacrifice some of his Damage Bonus for attack bonus.
Any reaction to the Second Strike idea from my original post? Basically getting a second attack with same light weapon using the same penalty structure as two-weapon fighting. Interesting? Useful? Balanced?
I seem to recall a feat that worked like the Rapid Shot feat... Rapid Strike? Something to that effect? Maybe it's something I wrote back in 3.0 days...
Basically you got an extra attack with a one-handed light weapon, with your offhand free, with all attacks made at -2.
Since it's a light weapon, unlike one-handed and two-handed, it's limited in how much damage it can do. Smaller dice, limitations on strength, etc.
Kinda like Bows.
Meant to give a little extra for the one-hand free weapon style... I think I let rapiers use it (or was it finessable one-handed weapons?). Duelists would love this.
Might be a bit less complicated than the mechanic you detailed.
Let's see, my dwarf just cut his way out of a T-Rex's gut by power attacking with a dagger. Seemed fine to me.
Hmm... it used to be that light (and finesse weapons?) couldn't be used with Power Attack.
So the dagger now getting full use of the feat as a longsword... this might even the playing field a little bit.
..
That would depend, I guess, on your opinion of the new Power Attack though.
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That raising the threat mod and crit multiplier idea would be a little too much, but here's a thought that actually works out beautifully in my mind.
We have the two martial weapons that fall into the same line with the dagger, the Kukri (threat range 18-20) and the Punching Dagger (x3)
The Kukri used to be an exotic weapon, but I think the small weapons deserve a small boost, so here's my suggestion.
(slashing only) Kukri- 18-20 critical threat range, x2 critical modifier.
(slashing or Piercing) Dagger- 19-20 critical threat range, x3 critical multiplier
(piercing only) Punching Dagger- 20 crtiical threat range, x4 critical multiplier.
And since this idea popped into my head, I'm houseruling it in my campaigns for now, see how it works out. Hopefully some players will actually use them, but they won't be favored where other weapons (IE pick, scimitar, greatsword, etc) are preferred.
And how about short sword? In my opinion it becomes pretty much a useless weapon in comparison, i.e. 1D6 (19-20/X2) vs. 1D4 (19-20/X3). This means that you crit more often with your dagger, and inflict 3D4 + triple bonuses vs. 2D6 + double bonuses. All the players in my group favor the dagger over short sword without a second thought, although they'd probably be amazed that a shorter (and cheaper) weapon had suddenly become much, much better than a "deadlier" weapon.
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And how about short sword?
And there's the can of worms. If the lowly dagger gets a leg up, what happens to the short sword? What happens to the hand axe (shouldn't a tool designed to hack through Hardness 5 wood do more than 1d6?).
Better, IMO, to leave the dagger where it is. Perhaps Exotic variations can be thrown in to spice things up, like a Main-Gauche that provides a +1 shield bonus when used in two-handed fighting or a Poniard that gets a +1 to hit against foes wearing armor or a Kris that has an increased critical range or modifier or something.
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I suggest adding a penalty to stealth for having a weapon in hand - it increases your profile and if it's metal, can reflect light. A simple way to reflect this would be to apply a -2 circumstance penalty for stealth with a martial or exotic weapon in hand, and an additional -2 for one handed weapon and a -5 for a two handed weapon in hand. This would result in daggers and other light simple weapons not having any penalty, which would make daggers best suited for stealthily approaching and sneak attacking victims.
This is good - it's the distinction between seeing somebody approach and seeing a threat approach.
In the situation of trying to get close enough to someone in a crowd of bystanders to (back)stab them, I'd go further and rule that the dagger is the only weapon likely to be effective if the target is wary. In that situation, they will keep an eye on anyone approaching with worn sheathed weapons, and will flee from anyone with an unsheathed weapon. I'd say that the act of drawing anything larger than a dagger when next to the target was enough to alert them and cause them to not be flat-footed. So, if you want your sneak-attack dice, dagger is the way to go.
Strictly speaking, you can't use power attack on a light weapon.
I think it was covered by another comment already, but to be clear - you *can* Power Attack with light weapons now (huge for dual-wielders).
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I seem to recall a feat that worked like the Rapid Shot feat... Rapid Strike? Something to that effect? Maybe it's something I wrote back in 3.0 days...
Basically you got an extra attack with a one-handed light weapon, with your offhand free, with all attacks made at -2...
Might be a bit less complicated than the mechanic you detailed.
Actually, your idea ends up very similar to mine. With your Rapid Strike feat, you end up with -2/-2, which is what you end up after taking my Improved Second Strike feat (which is the same as what you get after taking Two-Weapon Fighting). I think the main difference between my idea and yours is that I'd allow folks w/o the feat to do it too, just with a -4/-8 (again, like using a weapon in each hand w/o Two-Weapon Fighting). I really tried to model mine on fighting with two weapons because it's a well-balanced existing system; my Second Strike would allow more people to tap into that extra-attack-but-at-a-penalty mechanic.
Second Strike
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Weapon proficiency grants a +1 damage bonus per 2 points of BAB when using manufactured weapons.Back in Alpha that was one of my number one suggestions to make the Fighter more fun.
+1 damage / 2 Fighter class levels (round down, so +1 damage at 1st level, +2 at 3rd level, etc. all the way to +10 damage at 19th level).
I like this thought, but I agree it should be Fighter exclusive, not tied to BAB. The Barbarian has Rage, Paladin Smite, and Ranger Favored Enemy. This could be the Fighters way to deal damage.
Let's see, my dwarf just cut his way out of a T-Rex's gut by power attacking with a dagger. Seemed fine to me.
Fake Healer just broke the bad news to me. No 2H on small weapons. GAAAHHHH!
Strictly speaking, you can't use power attack on a light weapon. But it was still cool when Stiggy off the T Rex from the inside....
And Aubrey too. GAAAARRRRR!
Like I mentioned in the Weapon Type (vs. armor type) thread started by Krome you can also simply apply a circumstance modifier. Very little hassle, aside from working out things ahead of time with the DM.
Can anyone point me to where it states you can't power attack with a light weapon? All I can find is it saying you can't two hand a light weapon.