Captain Josper Creesy

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Dessic wrote:

You also don't have the ability to make an infinite number of copies of the car you bought for free. Terrible analogy.

Not perfect. But not terrible.

LilithsThrall wrote:


Honestly, as a software developer, I've studied the issues of software piracy. I'm sure that you can make a better argument than you have. I'd like to hear it. Responding to a freshman level argument is something I find irritating. I mean, you know that what is being stolen is the labor of the software developer. You can't duplicate labor without cost.

I couldn't say this is a freshman argument or not.

To me, It is all too similar to the avoidance of responsibility by the seller who happily(and cheaply) recoups loses to theft by making the bad bad honest people pay for the lost income, just because they are All potential thieves and should be ashamed of that..

An example may be S***s, A company which chooses to avoid the expense of criminal prosecution for actual theft by passing on the bill to the members of the C*******n Club.

Welcome to the club. Here is the bill for all the stuff that got stolen from the store this year. Only we call it a "special price" for members only. *warm feelings*

This is why it leaves a bitter taste in a customer's mouth to be fined just to use the product legally.

Find a way to identify Actual criminals and accept the responsibility and cost of punishing them. Although that may be an impossible pipe dream. I'd hire Batman.


Simple requests from me. I like the mentions of Pankration first of all. But feel like Pankration could just be boxing and a form of western wrestling combined by the player. After all why would a player choose Boxing and wrestling and something with trips and throws for takedowns(unless his wrestling includes takedowns), when they can just pick Pankration for it all. Pankration therefore feels to me more like a practical sport or war application of a wide range of "arts".

Aside from that good ol folk wrestling is grand I prefer characters of a simple origin and Catch Wrestling is perfect for them. Locks and holds that are comparable to Jujitsu.

Maybe throw in an urban "knife combat" for self defense buffs including "dirty fighting" strikes to groin, eyes, or other non sporting areas. Concealed weapon bonuses? Just a thought.


melee vs archer

*sunder bowstring*

now what?


In the spirit of Razor Sharp Chair Leg I think Dazzling Display should be renamed "Hey y'all, Watch this!" Or Jeff Foxworthy's redneck's last words.

Extra points if the feat is changed to cause a wound if you fail to perform.


A rule change I am exploring is making Point Blank Range be the first Range Increment instead of 30' It makes more sense (to me anyway)

Does it reduce point blank range for some weapons. sure. But be honest you use those weapons for style not for crunch anyway. (and they have Other advantages)

As for archers being able to step back and do a full attack on the fighter who made one attack after closing? Just sunder his bowstring with your one attack. That sinew string is a liability which is why no bow archer should melee.

Weapon-like spells such as rays = 30 feet as per normal.


google "books" not google search.

Aside from that, you still plain dodge the point that it not only is and plainly Was demonstrable that it could be done. It was.

If English longbowmen went about on horseback Only for transport then why did they make use of bows with a lighter pull when on horseback? At some point you have to do more than take an account word for word or you might come to the conclusion that "no cavalry battles took place before the invention of the stirrup and all battles where cavalry were mentioned were in fact dismounted to fight" This argument is tiresome and long disproved. Personally it shocks me to find it voiced again in the 21st century. Flawed arguments like these come and go all the time.

As for the Japanese bow it was hardly an innovation to use an asymmetrical bow. Such bows, Because of their advantages, had been made for thousands of years on the steppes already. The issue isn't that they are better, they are. The issue is in declaring that somehow the English just never did or couldn't possibly shoot from the mount, and yet all evidence aside from opinion not based in fact is that. They could and did. The use of the longbow en masse was a short period in history and quickly passed by in favor of the gun. Even at Crecy the English opened with cannon when the French knights began their charge.

And in that period longbowmen with the means to do so went about on horseback and if the situation called for it bloody well shot from the mount. The English preferred to fight from the defensive. But that doesn't preclude shooting from horseback does it? Again all evidence aside from opinion points to a definitive could and did.

EDIT:
Well since at this point we're Basically agreeing that they did, and could, and I agree that tactically it wasn't what they preferred to do.
I suggest we let it drop before we become THIS


At this point you are still handwaving. You even say it "cant be done is impossible".. and yet ive already posted a vid of a man doing just that, with an authentic english longbow, while galloping through a stream.

As for there being no historical evidence of it, 15 seconds searching googlebooks or 15 minutes at your local library will rock your world.


I can live with that. It still strikes me as odd that this powerful magician who chooses immortality would choose the lich's lesser preserved state over the vampires near indestructibility.

Edit: And since all lich are casters.. Why aren't they casting gentle repose?


Yes the composite bow is more suitable. But the English definitely used the longbow from horseback. It was merely a matter of being able to afford being mounted and being unable to afford equipping yourself as a fully armed knight. You cant just handwave it away by pointing at the composite bow. They're from England after all where it was too damp for that sort of temperamental equipment.


YouTube (Short Clip)
People can and have used longbows when mounted. We have to be careful when making these kinds of claims in D&D and be clear that its about game balance and not the real world. Sometimes people think D&D rules represent reality a little too much.


Ive always had this issue with lich and vampires. How is it that the lich is considered the ultimate undead and usually in control of a few vampires.. Yet its the vampires who run around with near flawless looks and undying bodies while the lich is doomed to continue decaying and eventually become immobile pile of (very powerful) bones?

I know they come from separate fantasy traditions, but I think its about time to make them more consistent when compared to each other. maybe trade the vampires feral good looks with the lich's decaying flawed body. Vampires require blood to sustain themselves but the lich does not. Therefore it makes sense for the vampires to have the comparatively imperfect bodies.


Those roman shields were actually of the central handgrip type. Laminated wooden strips. Sometimes baked to toughen them. The construction was relativly thin but beyond exceptional with cross grained strips rather like plywood. Had to be. They fought the best armies the world had to offer.
Personally I consider them to be large wooden shields in D&D terms but opinions vary.


One example of a Tower(type) shield: Assyrian Sapper

I could see them being strapped down something like a hoplite's argive shield As long as he has some kind of quick release to let that beast drop in an emergency.
A miner's shield could be fixed to the ground with spikes.. And I could even imagine in extreme cases a long row of such great shields being pinned together and then spiked into the ground to create something like a Wall. That would be bananas.


Like I mentioned in the Weapon Type (vs. armor type) thread started by Krome you can also simply apply a circumstance modifier. Very little hassle, aside from working out things ahead of time with the DM.


Ross Byers wrote:

There is a reason that police traditionally carry billyclubs and nightsticks: They are effective weapons that still allow the use of force without busting in a skull.

Now, I'm not saying that a club should be the same as a sap: A sap is specifically built to avoid actually breaking anything. On the other hand, I think it should be easier to pummel someone unconcious with a blunt, wooden instrument like a club or a quarterstaff than with a bladed weapon like a sword, or a metal-tipped skull cracker like a mace.

I suggest the clubs and quarterstaves be given a special rule where they can be used to deal non-lethal damage at a -2 penalty, instead of -4.

Not to mention you can use clubs and quarterstaves to pin someone. Say, to lock an arm and control their movement or brace against their throat on the ground. That extra mechanical advantage may make the difference in a grapple contest.


James Jacobs wrote:
My primary problem with setting up armor this way is that it sacrifices armor variety in order to make a pretty table and a consistent chart. Both things that'll more or less immediately be lost as soon as anyone makes up a new suit of armor. The reverse implication, that you can't invent new kinds of armor because the table implies that there's no room for other types of armor in the system, is also poor. I'm also not a fan of cutting content from the previous game; hide armor might not be everyone's favorite, but it's important to have in the game if only because it's cool to throw onto NPCs. Not everything in the book needs to be optimized for a player character.

I share sentiments with the thread starter and James Jacobs. Especially the desire to keep things easy for the player, to rework fabric armors to make them more desirable(as they were in our own history) and to preserve the 3.0 or 3.5 identity of the game which is the entire point right?

I feel that one way to achieve all goals is to stretch the patterns within the current system. which creates places for those new armor ideas and room for a touch of reality. Its like increasing the scale of a model, Its still the same model. You just see more of the detail.
For example, if you consider Padded to be 1 layer, leather 2 layers, and hide 3 layers. then you have just increased the detail of the model to make room for a 3 layer cloth and padding armor with roughly the same stats as Hide. And following on that model you can extrapolate even further 4, 5 or even 6 layers. I wouldn't do more personally, since 6 layers of padding is within the realm of historical example.
which would be more like.. multiple layers of cloth and stuffing, with a facing of stag's skin, leather or hide. These were actually very popular and effective armors.

Example from another thread: Another Thread

-Fabric Armor-
This is an expansion of the three known D&D fabric armors in a way that is easily adaptable by any player, and allows for a historic feel and detail without changing the existing rules in the slightest.
*note that every 5 layers of cloth = 1 layer of heavier materials*

Light - - - - - - - Medium - - - - - - - Heavy
5-10 of fabric ____ 15-20 layers _______ 25-30 layers
1-2 of stuffing ___ 3-4 layers _________ 5-6 layers
1-2 of leather ____ 3-4 layers _________ 5-6 layers
1-2 of hide _______ 3-4 layers _________ 5-6 layers

(1 Layers) - - - - - - - - - armor - max - check - - arcane
Light - - - - - - - cost - - bonus - dex - penalty - failure - weight
padded ____________ 5g _____ +1 ____ +8 __ -0 ______ 5% ______ 10
leather ___________ 5g _____ +1 ____ +8 __ -0 ______ 5% ______ 10
hide ______________ 5g _____ +1 ____ +8 __ -1 ______ 10% _____ 10

(2 Layers) - - - - - - - - - armor - max - check - - arcane
Light - - - - - - - cost - - bonus - dex - penalty - failure - weight
padded ____________ 10g ____ +2 ____ +6 __ -1 ______ 10% _____ 20
leather ___________ 10g ____ +2 ____ +6 __ -0 ______ 10% _____ 15
hide ______________ 10g ____ +2 ____ +6 __ -2 ______ 15% _____ 15

(3 Layers) - - - - - - - - - armor - max - check - - arcane
Medium- - - - - - - cost - - bonus - dex - penalty - failure - weight
padded ____________ 15g ____ +3 ____ +4 __ -2 ______ 15% _____ 30
leather ___________ 15g ____ +3 ____ +4 __ -1 ______ 15% _____ 25
hide ______________ 15g ____ +3 ____ +4 __ -3 ______ 20% _____ 25

The historic Charles VI garment is one example of a historical fabric armor with seven layers of cloth and with two layers of raw cotton wool as stuffing. It is layered like this:

2 layers of linen
1 layer of cotton wool
2 layers of linen
1 layer of cotton wool
2 layers of linen
1 layer of silk brocade

When cross referenced with the fabric armor charts it comes out as a piece of cloth armor the equivalent of our current Hide armor (3 layers hide)
I can see arguments for or against this, but historically, its on point.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not trying to hijack the thread. I agree with the concept of making things easier for the player and preserving the integrity? of the 3.0 3.5 system.


(I just started posting here and everything just jumped up as a surprise to me. The forum ate the spaces and then no ([code][/code]) and then completely different fonts between when you type and the displayed post and then one time only editing. I did my best to preserve the readability of the original post. I apologize for the scrambled eggs numbers above earlier. Even now I am sure it wont look right. I'm sorry, its as though this forum is designed to frustrate.)

So often you hear the phrase "Its fantasy, anything can happen" but this often cited excuse for many crazy embellishments seems to fall flat when it comes to realistic alternatives. Often with players becoming hostile toward the idea of implementing a few realistic, or historical alternatives. I cant see why we cant have both together. To that end I have expanded the current armor list to include historic alternatives for material and construction without changing any rules.

I submit this post as an attempt to encourage open discussion. Not to call out anyone or draw a line in the sand.

-Fabric Armor-
This is an expansion of the three known D&D fabric armors in a way that is easily adaptable by any player, and allows for a historic feel and detail without changing the existing rules in the slightest.
*note that every 5 layers of cloth = 1 layer of heavier materials*

Light - - - - - - - Medium - - - - - - - Heavy
5-10 of fabric ____ 15-20 layers _______ 25-30 layers
1-2 of stuffing ___ 3-4 layers _________ 5-6 layers
1-2 of leather ____ 3-4 layers _________ 5-6 layers
1-2 of hide _______ 3-4 layers _________ 5-6 layers

(1 Layers) - - - - - - - - - armor - max - check - - arcane
Light - - - - - - - cost - - bonus - dex - penalty - failure - weight
padded ____________ 5g _____ +1 ____ +8 __ -0 ______ 5% ______ 10
leather ___________ 5g _____ +1 ____ +8 __ -0 ______ 5% ______ 10
hide ______________ 5g _____ +1 ____ +8 __ -1 ______ 10% _____ 10

(2 Layers) - - - - - - - - - armor - max - check - - arcane
Light - - - - - - - cost - - bonus - dex - penalty - failure - weight
padded ____________ 10g ____ +2 ____ +6 __ -1 ______ 10% _____ 20
leather ___________ 10g ____ +2 ____ +6 __ -0 ______ 10% _____ 15
hide ______________ 10g ____ +2 ____ +6 __ -2 ______ 15% _____ 15

(3 Layers) - - - - - - - - - armor - max - check - - arcane
Medium- - - - - - - cost - - bonus - dex - penalty - failure - weight
padded ____________ 15g ____ +3 ____ +4 __ -2 ______ 15% _____ 30
leather ___________ 15g ____ +3 ____ +4 __ -1 ______ 15% _____ 25
hide ______________ 15g ____ +3 ____ +4 __ -3 ______ 20% _____ 25

(4 Layers) - - - - - - - - - armor - max - check - - arcane
Medium- - - - - - - cost - - bonus - dex - penalty - failure - weight
padded ____________ 40g ____ +4 ____ +2 __ -3 ______ 20% _____ 40
leather ___________ 40g ____ +4 ____ +2 __ -2 ______ 20% _____ 35
hide ______________ 40g ____ +4 ____ +2 __ -4 ______ 25% _____ 35

(5 Layers) - - - - - - - - - armor - max - check - - arcane
Heavy - - - - - - - cost - - bonus - dex - penalty - failure - weight
padded ____________ 80g ____ +5 ____ +1 __ -4 ______ 25% _____ 50
leather ___________ 80g ____ +5 ____ +1 __ -3 ______ 25% _____ 45
hide ______________ 80g ____ +5 ____ +1 __ -5 ______ 30% _____ 45

(6 Layers) - - - - - - - - - armor - max - check - - arcane
Heavy - - - - - - - cost - - bonus - dex - penalty - failure - weight
padded ____________ 160g ___ +6 ____ +0 __ -5 ______ 30% _____ 60
leather ___________ 160g ___ +6 ____ +0 __ -4 ______ 30% _____ 55
hide ______________ 160g ___ +6 ____ +0 __ -6 ______ 35% _____ 55

The historic Charles VI garment is one example of a historical fabric armor with seven layers of cloth and with two layers of raw cotton wool as stuffing. It is layered like this:

2 layers of linen
1 layer of cotton wool
2 layers of linen
1 layer of cotton wool
2 layers of linen
1 layer of silk brocade

When cross referenced with the fabric armor charts it comes out as a piece of cloth armor the equivalent of our current Hide armor (3 layers hide)
I can see arguments for or against this, but historically, its on point.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

-Organic Alternatives- for studded, brigandine, scale, splint, etc.

HORN: The stuff lantern panes are made from, usually from Bull horn. But also used as a catch-all term for any hard bony material from other sources used as a substitute for metal in armor when metals are scarce. These are bone, horn, horse hooves(the most used source)
+5 pounds per weight class since the rule is that these materials are not as efficient as metal, they require more material.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

-Class Division-
This is merely a tool I use to help design NPCs and a means to explain how some armors are simply better, and more expensive, than others. Its not written in stone and obviously any class can wear fabric armors. Again this changes none of the preexisting rules.(see above example of Charles VI)

Villain Class - -Knightly Class - -Noble Class

LIGHT - - - - - -LIGHT - - - - - - LIGHT
studded jack - - ****- - - - - - - ****
brigandine - - - maille shirt - - -****

MEDIUM - - - - - MEDIUM - - - - - -MEDIUM
scale - - - - - -banded ring - - - breast plate
coat of plates - maille - - - - - -anima

HEAVY - - - - - -HEAVY - - - - - - HEAVY
splint - - - - - heavy banded - - -half plate
heavy scale - - -heavy maille - - -full plate

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -SUPER
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -dwarven stone(!)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -heavy full plate

Its not readily apparent by this, but these newer, historic armors follow the same lesser/greater pattern within the weight classes as the fabric charts. for example half plate and full plate are both heavy armors, but one is superior to the other. The social classes add a further division of quality.

LIGHT- - - - - - - - - - - - armor - max - check - - arcane
- - - - - - - - - - cost - - bonus - dex - penalty - failure - weight
padded ____________ 5g _____ +1 ____ +8 __ -0 ______ 5% ______ 10
leather ____________10g ____ +2 ____ +6 __ -0 ______ 10% _____ 15
studded jack _______________ +2 ____ +6
brigandine ________ 25g ____ +3 ____ +5 __ -1 ______ 15% _____ 20
maille shirt ______ 100g ___ +4 ____ +4 __ -2 ______ 20% _____ 25

MEDIUM - - - - - - - - - - - armor - max - check - - arcane
- - - - - - - - - - cost - - bonus - dex - penalty - failure - weight
hide ______________ 15g ____ +3 ____ +4 __ -3 ______ 20% _____ 25
scale _____________ 50g ____ +4 ____ +3 __ -4 ______ 25% _____ 30
coat of plates _____________ +5 ____ +1
banded ring ________________ +4 ____ +3
maille ____________ 150g ___ +5 ____ +2 __ -5 ______ 30% _____ 40
breastplate _______ 200g ___ +5 ____ +3 __ -4 ______ 25% _____ 30
anima ______________________ +6 ____ +2

HEAVY- - - - - - - - - - - - armor - max - check - - arcane
- - - - - - - - - - cost - - bonus - dex - penalty - failure - weight
splint ___________ 200g ___ +6 ____ +0 __ -7 ______ 40% _____ 45
heavy scale ________________ +6 ____ +1
heavy banded ______ 250g ___ +6 ____ +1 __ -6 ______ 35% _____ 35
heavy maille _______________ +7 ____ +1
half plate ________ 600g ___ +7 ____ +0 __ -7 ______ 40% _____ 50
full plate ________ 1500g __ +8 ____ +1 __ -6 ______ 35% _____ 50

SUPER- - - - - - - - - - - - armor - max - check - - arcane
- - - - - - - - - - cost - - bonus - dex - penalty - failure - weight
dwarven stone@ ____ 1750g __ +9 ____ +0 __ -7 ______ 40% _____ 80
heavy full plate __ 2500g __ +11 ___ +1 __ -8 ______ 50% _____ 90

----Speed----(30) (20)

Light - - - - 30 - 20
Medium - - - -20 - 15
Heavy - - - - 20*- 15*
Super - - - - 15*- 10*
(*) When running you move at triple speed, not quadruple
(@)For non dwarves this armor falls into the Super Heavy category with the same movement penalties as heavy full plate

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I hope this hasn't been too hard to read. The forum seemed to swallow an earlier version i typed up and backspace offered no mercy either. I am going to try my hand at explaining some of the newer names and armors I introduced. Again, all without changing a single preexisting rule. I did -somewhat- change the definition of one of the armors, remained in the realm of D&D and, I think, you will find it reasonable.

Anima: This is a medieval form of plate which in form closely resembled the segmented roman armor associated with the legionary soldier of the empire. This armor used sliding rivets for articulation rather than the integral leather straps of the Roman armor. The trend has been in later years to attribute this form or armor to "banded" But as you will see it will be easier to use Anima for both remarkably similar armors to avoid confusion.

Banded ring: A lighter form of our classic "banded" which in earlier d&d was based upon rows of closely sewn rings or washers with "bands" of material set between the rings. The d&d version was in turn based upon misunderstood iconography which most likely represented plain maille armor.

Brigandine: Our Studded. Small plates riveted into a piece or fabric material. All you see is the studs of the rivets.

Coat of plates: As Brigandine or studded, but with larger plates riveted into a fabric coat. This was probably the first real attempt to reinforce maille. I felt it deserved inclusion as a type of villain/peasant armor in its own right.

Heavy banded: A heavier suit of banded.

Heavy maille: Same as above, such armors existed and were probably a doubling of the links over vital areas.

Heavy scale: ayup

Studded jack: A brigandine vest.

There you have it. I will be using something like this during my next game, I think. The intention was to have more detail, and a feeling of authenticity, alongside the existing D&D rules. Not stepping on anyone's toes or making changes someone might not like. The expansion follows a clear pattern which I enjoyed working out.
Let me know what you think!


The forum ate up my spacing. I'll try and fix it.

*edit* I'm at a loss.. Is there a reason why it has to swallow spaces?
i'd appreciate advice from those familiar with these forums.


So often you hear the phrase "Its fantasy, anything can happen" but this often cited excuse for many crazy embellishments seems to fall flat when it comes to realistic alternatives. Often with players becoming hostile toward the idea of implementing a few realistic, or historical alternatives. I cant see why we cant have both together. To that end I have expanded the current armor list to include historic alternatives for material and construction without changing any rules.

I submit this post as an attempt to encourage open discussion. Not to call out anyone or draw a line in the sand.

-Fabric Armor-
This is an expansion of the three known D&D fabric armors in a way that is easily adaptable by any player, and allows for a historic feel and detail without changing the existing rules in the slightest.
*note that every 5 layers of cloth = 1 layer of heavier materials*

5-10 of fabric = light | 15-20 layers = med | 25-30 = heavy
1-2 of stuffing = light | 3-4 layers = med | 5-6 = heavy
1-2 of leather = light | 3-4 layers = med | 5-6 = heavy
1-2 of hide = light | 3-4 layers = med | 5-6 = heavy

(1 Layers) armor max check arcane
Light - cost bonus dex penalty failure weight

padded 5g +1 +8 -0 5% 10
leather 5g +1 +8 -0 5% 10
hide 5g +1 +8 -1 10% 10

(2 Layers) armor max check arcane
Light - cost bonus dex penalty failure weight

padded 10g +2 +6 -1 10% 20
leather 10g +2 +6 -0 10% 15
hide 10g +2 +6 -2 15% 15

(3 Layers) armor max check arcane
Medium - cost bonus dex penalty failure weight

padded 15g +3 +4 -2 15% 30
leather 15g +3 +4 -1 15% 25
hide 15g +3 +4 -3 20% 25

(4 Layers) armor max check arcane
Medium - cost bonus dex penalty failure weight

padded 40g +4 +2 -3 20% 40
leather 40g +4 +2 -2 20% 35
hide 40g +4 +2 -4 25% 35

(5 Layers) armor max check arcane
Heavy - cost bonus dex penalty failure weight

padded 80g +5 +1 -4 25% 50
leather 80g +5 +1 -3 25% 45
hide 80g +5 +1 -5 30% 45

(6 Layers) armor max check arcane
Heavy - cost bonus dex penalty failure weight

padded 160g +6 +0 -5 30% 60
leather 160g +6 +0 -4 30% 55
hide 160g +6 +0 -6 35% 55

The historic Charles VI garment is one example of a historical fabric armor with seven layers of cloth and with two layers of raw cotton wool as stuffing. It is layered like this:

2 layers of linen
1 layer of cotton wool
2 layers of linen
1 layer of cotton woll
2 layers of linen
1 layer of silk brocade

When cross referenced with the fabric armor charts it comes out as a piece of cloth armor the equivalent of our current Hide armor (3 layers hide)
I can see arguments for or against this, but historically, its on point.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

-Organic Alternatives- for studded, brigandine, scale, splint, etc.

HORN: The stuff lantern panes are made from, usually from Bull horn. But also used as a catch-all term for any hard bony material from other sources used as a substitute for metal in armor when metals are scarce. These are bone, horn, horse hooves(the most used source)
+5 pounds per weight class since the rule is that these materials are not as efficient as metal, they require more material.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

-Class Division-
This is merely a tool I use to help design NPCs and a means to explain how some armors are simply better, and more expensive, than others. Its not written in stone and obviously any class can wear fabric armors. Again this changes none of the preexisting rules.(see above example of Charles VI)

Villain Class Knightly Class Noble Class

LIGHT LIGHT LIGHT
studded jack - -
brigandine maille shirt -

MEDIUM MEDIUM MEDIUM
scale banded ring breast plate
coat of plates maille anima

HEAVY HEAVY HEAVY
splint heavy banded half plate
heavy scale heavy maille full plate

SUPER
dwarven stone(!)
heavy full plate

Its not readily apparent by this, but these newer, historic armors follow the same lesser/greater pattern within the weight classes as the fabric charts. for example half plate and full plate are both heavy armors, but one is superior to the other. The social classes add a further division of quality.

-LIGHT- armor max check arcane
cost bonus dex penalty failure weight
padded 5g +1 +8 -0 5% 10
leather 10g +2 +6 -0 10% 15
studded jack +2 +6
brigandine 25g +3 +5 -1 15% 20
maille shirt 100g +4 +4 -2 20% 25

-MEDIUM- armor max check arcane
cost bonus dex penalty failure weight
hide 15g +3 +4 -3 20% 25
scale 50g +4 +3 -4 25% 30
coat of plates +5 +1
banded ring +4 +3
maille 150g +5 +2 -5 30% 40
breastplate 200g +5 +3 -4 25% 30
anima +6 +2

-HEAVY- armor max check arcane
cost bonus dex penalty failure weight
splint 200g +6 +0 -7 40% 45
heavy scale +6 +1
heavy banded 250g +6 +1 -6 35% 35
heavy maille +7 +1
half plate 600g +7 +0 -7 40% 50
full plate 1500g +8 +1 -6 35% 50

-SUPER- armor max check arcane
cost bonus dex penalty failure weight
dwarven stone(!) 1750g +9 +0 -7 40% 80
heavy full plate 2500g +11 +1 -8 50% 90

----Speed----
(30) (20)

Light - 30 20
Medium - 20 15
Heavy - 20* 15*
Super - 15* 10*
(*) When running you move at triple speed, not quadruple
(!)For non dwarves this armor falls into the Super Heavy category with the same movement penalties as heavy full plate

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I hope this hasn't been too hard to read. The forum seemed to swallow an earlier version i typed up and backspace offered no mercy either. I am going to try my hand at explaining some of the newer names and armors I introduced. Again, all without changing a single preexisting rule. I did -somewhat- change the definition of one of the armors, remained in the realm of D&D and, I think, you will find it reasonable.

Anima: This is a medieval form of plate which in form closely resembled the segmented roman armor associated with the legionary soldier of the empire. This armor used sliding rivets for articulation rather than the integral leather straps of the Roman armor. The trend has been in later years to attribute this form or armor to "banded" But as you will see it will be easier to use Anima for both remarkably similar armors to avoid confusion.

Banded ring: A lighter form of our classic "banded" which in earlier d&d was based upon rows of closely sewn rings or washers with "bands" of material set between the rings. The d&d version was in turn based upon misunderstood iconography which most likely represented plain maille armor.

Brigandine: Our Studded. Small plates riveted into a piece or fabric material. All you see is the studs of the rivets.

Coat of plates: As Brigandine or studded, but with larger plates riveted into a fabric coat. This was probably the first real attempt to reinforce maille. I felt it deserved inclusion as a type of villain/peasant armor in its own right.

Heavy banded: A heavier suit of banded.

Heavy maille: Same as above, such armors existed and were probably a doubling of the links over vital areas.

Heavy scale: ayup

Studded jack: A brigandine vest.

There you have it. I will be using something like this during my next game, I think. The intention was to have more detail, and a feeling of authenticity, alongside the existing D&D rules. Not stepping on anyone's toes or making changes someone might not like. The expansion follows a clear pattern which I enjoyed working out.
Let me know what you think!


ProsSteve wrote:


Generally I find Druids a very bad PC class, the druid should be the custodian of forest sections and have little interest outside their own area of protection. So why so many up and leave their forest and sacred grove to wonder the entire world I really can't fathom.

I always hear this concept but for me it sounds completely alien. A druid is foremost an intermediary between civilization and anarchy. Gods and men. Nature and development. And what use is an intermediary if they aren't properly embedded within the rural communities? They are as integral to society as any other class. Not separate and equal, but a contributing part of the Township.

A few acres of cabbages is no more insulting than a hill of termites because humans (and other sentients) are no less a part of nature than any other creature. Its absurd to assume that a druid gave up their humanity to live in the woods with a loincloth snuffling for truffles like swine. Instead. I allow them their place within a society, if not always to the benefit of politicians.. so be it. A farmer, or even a member of the aristocracy sending their child of to become a druid shouldn't raise any more notice than sending one off to be a monk.(read as cleric)

But then again. I do dislike the suggestion of primitive savagery when it comes to druids.. If a player wants to play a savage cleric, they should opt for barbarian-cleric as it makes much more sense.
And that Is just a personal opinion. I simply prefer the traditional, non neo-pagan historical view that the druid fills a role in their community first. Then you make allowances for fantasy and adventure.


What I like to do in regards to weapon type vs. armor is just assign a few circumstance bonuses to attack if it seems appropriate. Its a quick change which doesn't introduce any new rules to memorize.


A simple fix is to allow the larger shields to provide a little cover like the tower shield, only not so much as the tower shield.


Tom Cattery wrote:


... Additionally, besides concealment, daggers are also one of the easier weapons to use while in a grapple. ... While many other light weapons do more damage, few have the versatility of a trusty dagger.

I have always felt that the dagger's main place is in the grapple. Grappling itself could use some review. Daggers (knives too) are weapons I feel could slip in between two people wrestling it out. You just cant do that with the larger weapons.

Weapons of last resort.