Maybe hostility is coming from the populaces' desire for a Rolemaster supplement...
"Your dice shows a 63, but judging by the angle of the shadows, the sun is past it's zenith so we will go off of the After Noon charts. So adding your strength to the second exponent, subtracting 16 times your unpleasantness factor all divided by 4C... comes to the conclusion that you miss... horribly... causing you to trip... and land on a rock... a sharp one... which punctures your kidney and you die like a sobbing baby in 2d4 rounds."
Yes, the people could riot over Rolemaster.
JP
Wow, that takes me back. I remember playing briefly in a Rolemaster campaign back in high school. My character died, something that I usually get a little bummed about. However, the description of the critical attack that did him in was so amazing I completely forgot to be depressed about losing the character.
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Um, I'll call all ya and raise you a TWERPS.
-DM Jeff
I call and raise you "Beyond the Far Stars." I haven't seen a copy of that anywhere since '94.
I'll see y'all and raise ya with 'The Air Eaters Strike Back'!
Still have my box set of that!Don't forget Car Wars!I see your "Monsters Monsters" and raise you "Space Opera."well, i was using the conversions for boot hill in the 1e dmg, so i guess d&d is universal also. hmmm. ALL rpg's are universal with a little thought!!!!I remember Boot Hill! I call you and raise you; 'Monsters, Monsters'. Does anybody remember that? ( I know somebody will. Somebody else remembered Bunnies & Burrows for goodness sake.)Haven't seen my box set in years!
I was never that good at it anyway. My car always got trashed.
Everyone's cars got trashed! lol. The game didn't last long for us because the time you spent vamping up your ride was a waste.
Yeah, I came across Car Wars, Rolemaster, Runequest, AD&D and Runequest the other week. And a couple of old AD&D modules. Loved Ravenloft! The '87' criticals in Rolemaster were the nastiest IIRC.
Don't forget the Avalon Hills games in this trip down memory lane!
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Still have my box set of that!Don't forget Car Wars!I see your "Monsters Monsters" and raise you "Space Opera."well, i was using the conversions for boot hill in the 1e dmg, so i guess d&d is universal also. hmmm. ALL rpg's are universal with a little thought!!!!I remember Boot Hill! I call you and raise you; 'Monsters, Monsters'. Does anybody remember that? ( I know somebody will. Somebody else remembered Bunnies & Burrows for goodness sake.)Haven't seen my box set in years!
I was never that good at it anyway. My car always got trashed.
Everyone's cars got trashed! lol. The game didn't last long for us because the time you spent vamping up your ride was a waste.
Yeah, I came across Car Wars, Rolemaster, Runequest, AD&D and Runequest the other week. And a couple of old AD&D modules. Loved Ravenloft! The '87' criticals in Rolemaster were the nastiest IIRC.
Don't forget the Avalon Hills games in this trip down memory lane!
I played Rolemaster for about a year. We called Rulemaster. talk about long combats! We could spend up to 4-8 for a BBEG fight. I don't know if it was just the group I was in but, sheesh, that was insane.
I played Rolemaster for about a year. We called Rulemaster. talk about long combats! We could spend up to 4-8 for a BBEG fight. I don't know if it was just the group I was in but, sheesh, that was insane.
It wasn't just your group. Like Shadowborn pointed out the descriptions for the criticals were pretty cool, though they slowed down the play a lot. Not just hitting your ally on a fumble but 'You trip over your ally's foot and impale him on your blade'. Stuff like that. Too bad the system was onerous. Too many books and rules to keep track of. Kinda what happened to 3.5.
*peeks in*
Eek!
*peeks in*
*Immediately straightens up, puts the water pistol down, and whistles softly to self.*
You mean the one where I announce my candidacy for EMPEROR OF EVERYTHING?
Not yet.
*peeks in*Pervert.
/banned
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Um, I'll call all ya and raise you a TWERPS.
-DM Jeff
I call and raise you "Beyond the Far Stars." I haven't seen a copy of that anywhere since '94.I'll see y'all and raise ya with 'The Air Eaters Strike Back'!
Okay, I give. I haven't heard of that one.
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whistles as he skips down memory lane...
Go to Dragonquest.
hehe I did play Empire of the Petal Throne...and Traveller...loved that game system
Judges Guild? Arduin Grimoire?
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hehe I did play Empire of the Petal Throne...and Traveller...loved that game system
After loving Feist's Magician book, I've always wondered if Tekumel / Empire of the Petal Throne was any good...
Judges Guild? Arduin Grimoire?
Dark Tower was probably my favorite adventure ever, although I had a fondness for Barrier Peaks as well.
I still enjoy the Arduin Grimoire stuff. He was ahead of his time on some aspects (hit points being abstractified and it's effect on healing spells) and just so wonderfully creatively out-there on so many other aspects!
Space Opera rocked. Loved that one.
In Car Wars, I always made the silly mistake of taking a motorcycle. Just dumb. But fun! I was like a minion in a b-movie chase scene. Doomed.
Died a lot in Traveller character creation.
Died a real lot in ICE. Bleh.
Damn. Now that I think about it, my characters die a lot. And that's a lot of characters since 198whatever. :(
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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The whole point (well not the whole point, but a by product that has become sort of a main point) of the OGL/d20 System is that companies can use the OGL/d20 System to create their own Lisenced games.That is incorrect. IRC, the whole point of the OGL was to outsource things like adventure modules to 3PP (Dungeon Crawl Classics is a perfect example) and to allow for community improvements to the 3.5 rules system (kind of like UNIX). Unfortunately, all it did was allow 3PPs like Paizo to create their own derivative game systems and become competitors using WotC's own product. In that light, the 4E GSL is a perfectly understandable response. - Once bitten, twice shy
My emphasis.
Yes it did start out as a way for other companies to produce compatible material for D&D and thereby generate more sales for D&D because people needed their "Core Books" to play.
But it turned into a way for other companies to produce their own Game Systems/Worlds based off a d20 ruleset. This is what the OGL has become. More companies produce their own World than produce material for use with D&D proper.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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Don't go. You just got here. We're going to get some popcorn and beer before the Lisa vs Shelly match starts (GO LISA!). I think Heathy's got a really nice HD Tv we can watch it on.WARNING: Watching Lisa in a bra and panties match will require a DC55 Sanity check, DC75 if you are watching in HD. Seriously, you really don't want that. :) You have been warned!
-Lisa
What does that say about Vic??!!??
I loved Space Opera too! To me this was the first really good approach to sci-fi role playing games, particularly of the space opera-ish flavor (hence, I guess, its name)... a bit complicated in places, best of my memory, but great all the same!
(I'm also, still, a big Villians & Vigilantes fan... though I've not had ahold of my books in years... V&V actually rivaled my interest with D&D for a very long while.)
Does anyone, on this note, remember a certain role playing game that I bought two different editions of (1st and 3rd I think) on clearance from Wargames West back in 94/95 or so? Here is my best description of this game... the cover was the same group of adventurers for both additions... in one, some of the adventurers were helping another one get up from a hole that they were climbing out of... there was always this assassin like character in the group, with a strange white mask (I think with red markings for eyes) and a dark cloak.
The game was very similiar to AD&D, but some of the classes were different... I think they may have had a cavaliar and/or a corsair class.
How I regret getting rid of many of my products years ago... ESPECIALLY V&V and my copy of that early WOTC product, Primal Order (which was an exceptionally good product).
Tales from the Floating Vegabond! Ok, that's my obscure game. I'm out.
Please add Car Wars (subcompacts rule!), Ogre, G.E.V., and Boot Hill to my list under "dabbling".
Fantasy Games Unlimited...I think they were the ones who did the post-apocalyptic I can't remember the name of. Only played it once, it took hours to generate characters, and we all got killed by a miniature mutant moose. Yes, a frikkin' minimoose.
Also had a fantasy game I can't remember the name of. Bought it by mail from a Dragon add. Odd system. All the character stats were expressed in plusses, the combat system was a weird one where the superior plus trumps the lower one every time for sequence. Also had a sort of freeform magic system. It's been too many years.
Man this is what I get for sleeping all day without coffin-wireless Internet access! I miss all the juicy fun!
Get your own forum, I was here first!
Nom, nom, nom...
There's not room enough here for the both of us
But it turned into a way for other companies to produce their own Game Systems/Worlds based off a d20 ruleset. This is what the OGL has become. More companies produce their own World than produce material for use with D&D proper.
Hence, the GSL. The OGL produced competitors, not allies. I don't know why anyone's surprised that they didn't repeat that mistake.
Tales from the Floating Vegabond! Ok, that's my obscure game. I'm out.C'mon, surely noone can go past Advancved Fighting Fantasy!! ;)
hey I'm a big fan of any game where you can, with a straight face, introduce your character as Ms. Tinkles Fluffybottom. :p
Nice to see that the post has veered into old skool memory land. How is it no one mentioned: Fantasy Wargaming by Bruce Galloway? Oh yeah, that's right, it makes Rolemaster look like the simplest game in the world. Oh sweet demons I have a headache just thinking about the ruleset.
Scampers off to get some caffeine
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Nice to see that the post has veered into old skool memory land. How is it no one mentioned: Fantasy Wargaming by Bruce Galloway? Oh yeah, that's right, it makes Rolemaster look like the simplest game in the world. Oh sweet demons I have a headache just thinking about the ruleset.
Scampers off to get some caffeine
Is that the one with the Black Mass?
Surprised noone has mentioned HârnMaster yet... guess everyone is doing their best to surpress the memory of that system ;)
I loved Harnmaster. Well, until my character Willis got stabbed by thugs down by the creek. Sigh, it was probably best that way anyhow because his farm was going bankrupt.
Is that the one with the Black Mass?Nice to see that the post has veered into old skool memory land. How is it no one mentioned: Fantasy Wargaming by Bruce Galloway? Oh yeah, that's right, it makes Rolemaster look like the simplest game in the world. Oh sweet demons I have a headache just thinking about the ruleset.
Scampers off to get some caffeine
Yeah. Had some great worldbuilding tips, but the ruleset was so convoluted it would make a math major weep. This English major just put it down and walked away slowly, hoping I would make my Sanity roll.
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Here, here! I must have missed the other thread, but I agree completely. Based on what someone said earlier in the thread about how this seems to be some kind of sly attempt to stir up hornets, I'm just going to "tsk tsk" and move on.I said in the other thread the same user started about the same topic:
This is the internet. If it exists, there are people whining about it.Yeah, there's always some nutter out there who complains about the silliest things... like how it's actually "hear hear" not "here here"* - totally nutty I say!
As I've only ever heard the phrase rather than reading it in a forum, I lacked the proper usage. Now that I know it's actually "hear, hear," I find that rather ironic.
Bard Games Atlantis anyone? Really great setting, varied races and classes and interesting magic systems. Don't recall the combat rules.
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Surprised noone has mentioned HârnMaster yet... guess everyone is doing their best to surpress the memory of that system ;)
Didnt care for the game system much...but the world and all its Fluff was probably the very best ever done :D
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hehe I did play Empire of the Petal Throne...and Traveller...loved that game systemAfter loving Feist's Magician book, I've always wondered if Tekumel / Empire of the Petal Throne was any good...
Judges Guild? Arduin Grimoire?Dark Tower was probably my favorite adventure ever, although I had a fondness for Barrier Peaks as well.
I still enjoy the Arduin Grimoire stuff. He was ahead of his time on some aspects (hit points being abstractified and it's effect on healing spells) and just so wonderfully creatively out-there on so many other aspects!
agreed on Arduin Grimoire. I stole a few of his idea's and have kept them in my campaigns all these years...Like the Phraints ;) whats not to like about mantis warriors wielding 2 Greatswords...;) and a class system designated by the color of their chitin....ahh yes.
EotPT was ok....it wasnt good enough to keep our interest beyond about 6 months...then it was back to the old favorite D&D
This is my first success thread jack! I brought us down memory lane. I am so proud. Do I get a medal or something? Or do I get some sort of title like 'Troll'?
This is my first success thread jack! I brought us down memory lane. I am so proud. Do I get a medal or something? Or do I get some sort of title like 'Troll'?
You'd normally get a cookie, but your threadjack wasn't a total departure from the OP. We talked about a lot of history and a lot of games, but how many of those alternatives involved anything like the recent hostility? The history also speaks to the diversity and open-minded nature of gamers themselves. It really shows how limited any hostility towards Paizo really is.
Lillith can give you a cookie. I hear they're awesome!
WARNING: Watching Lisa in a bra and panties match will require a DC55 Sanity check, DC75 if you are watching in HD. Seriously, you really don't want that. :) You have been warned!
-Lisa
Are those DCs with or without jello being involved?
You mean the one where I announce my candidacy for EMPEROR OF EVERYTHING?
Not yet.
How about the announcement detailing the Pathfinder Logo License 1.0A?
There's not room enough here for the both of usMan this is what I get for sleeping all day without coffin-wireless Internet access! I miss all the juicy fun!
Get your own forum, I was here first!
Nom, nom, nom...
SQUAK!
Hence, the GSL. The OGL produced competitors, not allies. I don't know why anyone's surprised that they didn't repeat that mistake.
The OGL did not "produce" competitors. Most of the companies that produced system core rules under the d20/OGL were the companies that previously had released their own rules that were incompatible with D&D. The OGL made it so that they were instead adhering to the d20 standard.
Again, it's entirely anecdotal evidence, but from what I've seen, 3.x did vastly better vis-a-vis competing systems than 2nd Edition did. The OGL certainly was not solely responsible for this, but it in no way hurt them. Under 2nd Edition, D&D was a game that most of the serious gamers I knew looked down on, and sought better systems. Conversely, the OGL made D&D the center of the RPG universe under 3.x. Even if you weren't playing D&D, you were still basically playing their game.
I could repeat my full explanation from the post I made previously on why I think that is, but I don't want to belabor the point.
Personally, I find the switch in the tone from OGL to GSL fascinating. It strikes me as a huge mistake, honestly. Instead of the vast majority of gamers playing by the rules they set as the industry standard, we will instead return a mixture of competing proprietary rules and people still using d20/OGL stuff. Not everyone is going to play D&D, all the time. By making your system proprietary, you just increase the odds that people will say "eh, I don't need those, I'm not that likely to ever use them."
Again, it's entirely anecdotal evidence, but from what I've seen, 3.x did vastly better vis-a-vis competing systems than 2nd Edition did.
2nd was the edition that ran D&D (or at least TSR) into the ground. WotC's primary challenge with 3E was to restore D&D to its former glory. The OGL obviously helped out tremendously in that regard.
With 4E, the situation is entirely different: D&D is leaps and bounds the most popular RPG around. However, thanks to the OGL the money generated by this popularity got spread around, it was not just going to WotC. Competition - from Wizards' POV - changed from D&D vs other systems to WotC vs 3rd party companies producing D&D material.
Now I'm not sure the GSL as is is the best approach to this situation, but the goal is pretty obvious: to gain more control again over the D&D property.
Also, consider the 4E business plan: the core rules are released in installments. Imagine the possibilities for 3rd party publishers if 3E's OGL applied equally now: you'd see a glut of 3rd party "PHB IIs", quickly developed and released before WotC gets to their version. They can't risk that - the core material has to remain in Wizards' hands, that's where the heart of the business is.
edit:
Um, wow, it helps to know there is already 8 pages to a thread before I respond to something on the first page.