Hell yes I hate Paizo! I hate that they are so good that I spend at least $30 every month. That money should be going towards Booze! Booze I tell you! But noooo!!! Next month they will have even more good stuff! How am I suppost to have a drinking problem with Paizo publishing such good stuff! I say Burn their offices! Burn them in the name of Booze!
~grins and runs~
With 4E, the situation is entirely different: D&D is leaps and bounds the most popular RPG around. However, thanks to the OGL the money generated by this popularity got spread around, it was not just going to WotC. Competition - from Wizards' POV - changed from D&D vs other systems to WotC vs 3rd party companies producing D&D material.
Now I'm not sure the GSL as is is the best approach to this situation, but the goal is pretty obvious: to gain more control again over the D&D property.
I do tend to agree that D&D is now the leading RPG, and I tend to think that this is one of the things driving WoTC to implement the switch from OGL to GSL.
However, looking back at the history of D&D, it also occurs to me that D&D was originally the pinnacle and leader of the RPG industry. It was the first game that went into mass publication, and was the one that everyone originally played. Many of the first RPGs that followed copied or emulated it quite closely, and only over time did they start to evolve into significantly different games. The proprietary nature of the D&D rules didn't prevent D&D from losing its luster, though, and moving from emulated leader to derided old has-been.
Also, consider the 4E business plan: the core rules are released in installments. Imagine the possibilities for 3rd party publishers if 3E's OGL applied equally now: you'd see a glut of 3rd party "PHB IIs", quickly developed and released before WotC gets to their version. They can't risk that - the core material has to remain in Wizards' hands, that's where the heart of the business is.
It's certainly understandable for Wizards to want to eliminate potential competition over their upcoming releases. I just don't feel that it is, in the long term, a good idea. The reason for that is that I think it overestimates the threat from competing third-party sourcebooks. As a D&D gamer, looking at the shelf, am I more likely to buy something from Wizards than I am from someone else, even if both are fully compatible with D&D. I still bought the 3.x PHB 2 and DMG 2, for example, despite the massive amounts of third-party supplements available.
Now, what would make me change my mind, and buy third-party material instead? Well, if I thought that the quality of the official Wizards product was significantly inferior, or not of any use to me, I would likely give strong consideration to competing material.
So where does the OGL/GSL issue come into this? Well, the main difference is that if there's no competing material that's compatible, and I decide that the D&D material isn't worth my time, I'm going to switch systems entirely - which means I don't purchase any of Wizards' stuff, instead of buying some things from them, and some things from others. Of course, in the case that Wizards' products are superior, I'd be buying them regardless, so the issue is moot.
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Hell yes I hate Paizo! I hate that they are so good that I spend at least $30 every month. That money should be going towards Booze! Booze I tell you! But noooo!!! Next month they will have even more good stuff! How am I suppost to have a drinking problem with Paizo publishing such good stuff! I say Burn their offices! Burn them in the name of Booze!
~grins and runs~
*Gets pitch fork and torch*
Yeah Burn! Burn!
Ummm... can I loot the warehouse first?
:]
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Hell yes I hate Paizo! I hate that they are so good that I spend at least $30 every month. That money should be going towards Booze! Booze I tell you! But noooo!!! Next month they will have even more good stuff! How am I suppost to have a drinking problem with Paizo publishing such good stuff! I say Burn their offices! Burn them in the name of Booze!
~grins and runs~
Sounds like my kind of mob. Mmmmm......booze.
What's this about cookies?
*listens as a quasit whispers something in her ear*
Oh! I'm supposed to leave some for Duncan & Dragons? Ah! Gotcha!
*leaves a pile of snickerdoodles for Duncan & Dragons*
*Gets pitch fork and torch*
Yeah Burn! Burn!
Ummm... can I loot the warehouse first?
:]
NO! You would have to get past me to grab the loot "first." :P
Lisa Stevens is an anagram for her own evil job description:
'Sit' and then 'enslaves'.
Proof positive that Paizo must be brought down! Fight the power! They're dominating our minds!
Yeah, well her name also anagrams to aliens' vests... and that's what we'll all be once Paizo is done gutting us for their casual wear!
Yeah, well her name also anagrams to aliens' vests... and that's what we'll all be once Paizo is done gutting us for their casual wear!
Dude, you are confusing "Paizo" with "Hasbro."
An understandable error, but be assured - they are NOT the same. :P
Yeah, well her name also anagrams to aliens' vests... and that's what we'll all be once Paizo is done gutting us for their casual wear!Dude, you are confusing "Paizo" with "Hasbro."
An understandable error, but be assured - they are NOT the same. :P
I can see you've fallen under their spell as well, Lord Fyre. Well if you need more proof of their corporate diabobolism consider this, Vic Wertz has no anagram! What can it mean for the world?! Change your accent on Lord Fyre from fire to fear, my friend! FEAR, and shrink beneath the woeful gauntlet of Paizo, the creative juggernaut, the miasmic, morally hollow home for a depraved staff, ever-wriggling with flesh feeding freelancers (who know better than to engage in alliteration).
Crush them before they crush you!
I've always wanted to "ride" a supermodel down the runway.Yeah, well her name also anagrams to aliens' vests... and that's what we'll all be once Paizo is done gutting us for their casual wear!
I have. I still prefer a bed. Hell on the knees, don't cha know.
SOYLENT PAIZO IS PEOPLE!!!Lisa Stevens is an anagram for her own evil job description:
'Sit' and then 'enslaves'.
Proof positive that Paizo must be brought down! Fight the power! They're dominating our minds!
Amen, brother! Spread the word, and uh... don't eat those complimentary snack cakes in the lobby!
...flesh feeding freelancers (who know better than to engage in alliteration).Ol' Anonymous 15 should be a lesson to us all.
Let us not lengthily languish in lament, but rather lounge lazily in our loving memories of the late and long-time lord, Anonymous 15.
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Lisa Stevens is an anagram for her own evil job description:
'Sit' and then 'enslaves'.
Proof positive that Paizo must be brought down! Fight the power! They're dominating our minds!
Funny, I always thought her name was an anagram for Saint selves, which is certainly what the folks at Paizo are for saving us from 4th edition. Which by the way is code for fiend hurt I too. Proof that WOTC is trying to ruin gaming. ;)
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Yeah, well her name also anagrams to aliens' vests... and that's what we'll all be once Paizo is done gutting us for their casual wear!Dude, you are confusing "Paizo" with "Hasbro."
An understandable error, but be assured - they are NOT the same. :P
I can see you've fallen under their spell as well, Lord Fyre. Well if you need more proof of their corporate diabobolism consider this, Vic Wertz has no anagram! What can it mean for the world?! Change your accent on Lord Fyre from fire to fear, my friend! FEAR, and shrink beneath the woeful gauntlet of Paizo, the creative juggernaut, the miasmic, morally hollow home for a depraved staff, ever-wriggling with flesh feeding freelancers (who know better than to engage in alliteration).
Crush them before they crush you!
But The Jade is an anagram for Hate Jed. What did Jed ever do to you?
Funny, I always thought her name was an anagram for Saint selves, which is certainly what the folks at Paizo are for saving us from 4th edition. Which by the way is code for fiend hurt I too. Proof that WOTC is trying to ruin gaming. ;)
'Fourth Edition' is also an anagram for 'Hoofed Tit Ruin', who, as you may recall from Sunday school, was the fifth horseman of the apocalypse.
But The Jade is an anagram for Hate Jed. What did Jed ever do to you?Yeah, well her name also anagrams to aliens' vests... and that's what we'll all be once Paizo is done gutting us for their casual wear!Dude, you are confusing "Paizo" with "Hasbro."
An understandable error, but be assured - they are NOT the same. :P
I can see you've fallen under their spell as well, Lord Fyre. Well if you need more proof of their corporate diabobolism consider this, Vic Wertz has no anagram! What can it mean for the world?! Change your accent on Lord Fyre from fire to fear, my friend! FEAR, and shrink beneath the woeful gauntlet of Paizo, the creative juggernaut, the miasmic, morally hollow home for a depraved staff, ever-wriggling with flesh feeding freelancers (who know better than to engage in alliteration).
Crush them before they crush you!
Jed Clampett is one of those Oil Barons who is running up the price of Gasoline!
But The Jade is an anagram for Hate Jed. What did Jed ever do to you?
Sometimes when a rich hillbilly loves a...
Well... I can't go into it.
Let's just say, my heart was broken and all I got out of the deal was some bubbling crude.
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RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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But The Jade is an anagram for Hate Jed. What did Jed ever do to you?Sometimes when a rich hillbilly loves a...
Well... I can't go into it.
Let's just say, my heart was broken and all I got out of the deal was some bubbling crude.
Ah, so YOU'RE the food he was out "shooting" at.
And he left you for the bright lights of Beverly Hills.
I'm sorry Jade. That bastard.
One minute it's all "sure I love you" and "squeal like a piggy" while you're in your tighty whiteys, the next he's off to another state and won't return your phone calls.
Better to have loved and lost, Jade.
You people scare me!
Trying to keep my lunch from splurting all over my monitor. LMAO!
I, for one, welcome our new golem overlords.
Me too! :D
But The Jade is an anagram for Hate Jed. What did Jed ever do to you?Sometimes when a rich hillbilly loves a...
Well... I can't go into it.
Let's just say, my heart was broken and all I got out of the deal was some bubbling crude.
Ah, so YOU'RE the food he was out "shooting" at.
And he left you for the bright lights of Beverly Hills.
I'm sorry Jade. That bastard.
One minute it's all "sure I love you" and "squeal like a piggy" while you're in your tighty whiteys, the next he's off to another state and won't return your phone calls.
Better to have loved and lost, Jade.
Thank you for having my back, Eyebite. It's good to know not everyone sees me as just another 'yee-haw commodity'. I really thought he cared. That's the sad part. But I knew it was over the minute he invited Jethro into our tent and tried to make me swig some of Granny's hooch...
I'm nobody's 'billy-boy.
I, for one, welcome our new golem overlords.Me too! :D
That's the first Paizo T-shirt I'd seriously consider buying. I mean, sincerely.
What about their logo though... any IP issues there? If they signed off on it, though, I'd buy.
Me too! :D
And if you go up to the DarkMoon Gallery you find even more goodness. I'm with The Jade though, I would like to find out if there's any IP issues before I order anything.
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I also think that WotC is drumming up some of the negative sentiment...How do you think they are doing this?Well, there are the subtle things... Like having a Paragon Path in their PHB called the Pathfinder and having one of its abilities called "Wrong Step". There is the cancellation of both magazines, which Paizo had made into the best gaming supplements in the industry. How did cancelling them make sense if WotC didn't feel threatened by Paizo? The Mags could have served as a vehicle to promote 4e instead of a point around which more acrimony was thrown WotC way. So why cancel them a full year before 4e's release? Because they knew Paizo made a better product and wanted to try to force the revenue from that back their own way. So Paizo makes Pathfinder. I think that having an alternative like Pathfinder is a key cog in why many 3.5 players still refuse to go to 4e. My guess is WotC is not pleased. Further, why is it that at virtually every board where these sorts of debate are happening its always the same handful of people instigating things? Is it not a reasonable leap of logic to think that one of those folks could be doing something that WotC quietly asked them to, like say create negative internet buzz about Pathfinder?
Again, just an opinion. WotC handling of the 4e transition has made me think they are capable of anything, including slandering a competitor's product by having zealots go to that competitor's website to start inflammatory threads.
Oh, please!
I don't know what about you guys, but I never heard about shuch a paranoia since the Cold War. WoTC and PAIZO are compitting compenis, and the competition is a healthy one.It amazes me that no-one see how rediculus the sitioution has become: words like Apoclipse, war, and hatred are written evreywhere. two camps are gathering, and each one of them is deaclering a brutal crusade of conquring and destriong, and won't stop untill destroied or victorieos. people seem to forget D&D's a game! Play it, injoey it, end of story.
oh, and Brent: Look, like you, I think 3.5 edition is better (although I never actually played it so I can't really express an opinion here), at least from waht I heard. It's just that I don't think it's worthy of such zealousy.
I'm pretty sure I set the prices at base, so I'm not making a profit...or if there is a profit, I already said it would go to the Paizo Cookie Fund. :D
...but I hope it's okay. :P
It's certainly understandable for Wizards to want to eliminate potential competition over their upcoming releases. I just don't feel that it is, in the long term, a good idea. The reason for that is that I think it overestimates the threat from competing third-party sourcebooks.
If, right now, the OGL applied to 4E as it did to 3E I could release a book containing a Bard, Barbarian, Druid, Sorcerer and various specialist Wizard (Necromancer, Evoker, Summoner, etc) classes and claim those names for 4E purposes for myself. I'd do that in a heartbeat, probably wouldn't even consider quality all that much as long as I made sure I was the first.
We're not talking sourcebooks here. This is about a core rulebook. WotC isn't about to let that slip out of their control.
splurting all over my monitor
That the new name of my band!
splurting all over my monitorThat the new name of my band!
gross!
It's certainly understandable for Wizards to want to eliminate potential competition over their upcoming releases. I just don't feel that it is, in the long term, a good idea. The reason for that is that I think it overestimates the threat from competing third-party sourcebooks.If, right now, the OGL applied to 4E as it did to 3E I could release a book containing a Bard, Barbarian, Druid, Sorcerer and various specialist Wizard (Necromancer, Evoker, Summoner, etc) classes and claim those names for 4E purposes for myself. I'd do that in a heartbeat, probably wouldn't even consider quality all that much as long as I made sure I was the first.
We're not talking sourcebooks here. This is about a core rulebook. WotC isn't about to let that slip out of their control.
...and no one would take you seriously, since those are previously defined D&D terms. Maybe WoTC is paranoid about it, but that doesn't mean that it's really justified. I guess I just fail to see how any of it has been a real problem, in monetary terms, for them, under the OGL.
To use your example, let's say I do buy your book if it comes out first. If it's crap, I'll probably tell all my friends not to buy it. If it's mediocre, eh. I might use it, but... regardless, I'm still going to look at what WoTC puts out. Furthermore, if definitions are in conflict, anything WoTC puts out is going to be considered D&D canon, and any third-party stuff is going to be on par with house rules. Sure, you can use it, but most people won't be.
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Tiger Dave:
The Symbol of Fear which Lilith left to protect the aformentioned edibles against anyone not called Duncan & Dragons coming within 5ft of them triggers (you didn't really think she'd left them unprotected?). Make a DC 34 Will save (you're lucky she didn't heighten it further) or spend the next 30 rounds panicked.Oh, by the way the Symbol is still glowing & active. It seems that it's permanent.
I'm Active Army working in TRADOC - how is this supposed to intimidate me again? (Oh look, a crumb ...)
Its a similar response to being told, when I went to Motorcycle Beginner Riding Course, that we would have to sail through flaming rings and I piped up, "Oh heck, I spend all day jumping through hoops - this should be easy!"
(snicker)
I'm Active Army working in TRADOC - how is this supposed to intimidate me again? (Oh look, a crumb ...)
Its a similar response to being told, when I went to Motorcycle Beginner Riding Course, that we would have to sail through flaming rings and I piped up, "Oh heck, I spend all day jumping through hoops - this should be easy!"
(snicker)
But TigerDave, those cookies are guarded by an IET soldier of the opposite sex, that happens to be attractive... I'd stay away if I were you. ;)
I, for one, welcome our new golem overlords.Me too!
Link removed, by my conscience (and a nice request). You'll have to get your Paizo love elsewhere...say right here! :D
Riddle of Steel is pretty obscure, right?
I'll bet that is pretty obscure. Thulsa-Doom spent years searching for that Riddle.
When he found it, he created temples all through the Hyborian world, and was only stopped because some Cimmerian chopped his head off.
(edited for spelling)
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I've played in the Harn world with three different systems. Harnmaster, Hero, and Riddle of Steel.
Riddle of Steel is pretty obscure, right?
I also have the Morrigan Press Atlantis book and the Tekumel book.
Finally another person who's even heard of Riddle of Steel. I picked up a copy of it a few years ago but could never get anyone interested in playing. Maybe paizo should see if they can adapt the combat system for Pathfinder. I'm currently working on adapting it for use with Rifts.