|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I would like to take this moment to say, God bless the Etruscans. Damned if they weren't awesome and too short lived.Can we also get a shout-out for the Scythians, who Plato and Homer based the Amazons on!
Geoffrey Ashe, in The Discovery of King Arthur, suggests that 'Arthur' was a Romanized Briton, possibly even kind of a 'soft' figure, better at diplomacy and tactics than actual fighting, while, if legends about him cementing an alliance by marrying the daughter of a Celtic chief are true, might well have been married to a woman who was, like all Celtic 'royals' of that age, of either gender, was expected to be able to defend herself against all challengers in a clash of arms, and had, among their other fun traits, a love of insulting the hell out of each other, and spreading their royal blood around the 'common folk' by sleeping with anyone who caught their eye, regardless of marital status.
Wouldn't that be a role reversal on the average Camelot movie, if 'Arthur' was a politician and tactician, a man of letters, not of action, and 'Guinevere' was a foul-mouthed lusty warrior-woman?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Has any Paizo product ever depicted a relationship between a reptilian humanoid and a a mammal, homosexual or otherwise?
There's a relationship between a succubus and a female green dragon described in the Worldwound book.
Funny thing. When you genocidally exterminate an entire empire and purge their records, it's hard to know exact details.
Tangent here, but the Inca didn't have conventional writing system. They had Quipu, but there's a ton of scholarly debate as to if it was purely numerical/calendrical, or if it could be used to encode other information. We have quite a bit of quipu material extant, but the ability to read it was lost centuries ago. I don't believe there was ever any attempt to destroy the material itself.
That being said it doesn't appear to have been anything like the Mayan and Aztec Codices which were largely burned (excepting the few saved by a few Spanish monks, and those discovered more recently) and took with them massive amounts of religious and historical records.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Now back to Golarion and homosexuality in it
Or rather, next door...
What about Castrovel? Specifically the Lashunta. Considering the cultural gender divide between them, helped along by the extreme dimorphism, one really has to wonder how romantic relationships tend to take shape between and within both groups.
Then I thought, that if elves can have children with humans, could lashunta breed with humans too...
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Also, nagaji for sure.
...though actual nagas do have more appealing faces...
Too tame for someone who crossbreeds gnomes with flumphs for fun and profit? ;)
| 7 people marked this as a favorite. |
I would like to take this moment to say, God bless the Etruscans. Damned if they weren't awesome and too short lived.Can we also get a shout-out for the Scythians, who Plato and Homer based the Amazons on!Geoffrey Ashe, in The Discovery of King Arthur, suggests that 'Arthur' was a Romanized Briton, possibly even kind of a 'soft' figure, better at diplomacy and tactics than actual fighting, while, if legends about him cementing an alliance by marrying the daughter of a Celtic chief are true, might well have been married to a woman who was, like all Celtic 'royals' of that age, of either gender, was expected to be able to defend herself against all challengers in a clash of arms, and had, among their other fun traits, a love of insulting the hell out of each other, and spreading their royal blood around the 'common folk' by sleeping with anyone who caught their eye, regardless of marital status.
Wouldn't that be a role reversal on the average Camelot movie, if 'Arthur' was a politician and tactician, a man of letters, not of action, and 'Guinevere' was a foul-mouthed lusty warrior-woman?
I would watch the ever-living bejeezus out of this.
Digital Products Assistant
|
| 8 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'd always wanted to write up a fantasy or sci-fi society with three separate genders and figure out relationships and romance would work in that.There's still of lot of fleshing out left to do for the kasatha, trox, and who knows who else out in the Distant Worlds. :)
Wonder if you could do something like this with the Ghorans too, if they were to develop a means to truly reproduce rather than giving birth to themselves repeatedly.
(IIRC, Golarion flumphs are written as having reproduction be a communal effort, with it ultimately being organized into a sort of space program)
Fun fact: The trox illustrated in the Bestiary 4 is a female. Same with the wyvaran. Wes and I sat down to figure out the basics of their sexual dimorphism, and finally settled on female wyvaran being leaner and taller and female trox being less colorful, but with a bioluminescent tail they use to attract males. Sadly, a lot of flavor text needs to be cut to make room for the player race statblocks.
|
Digital Products Assistant
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Fun fact: The trox illustrated in the Bestiary 4 is a female. Same with the wyvaran. Wes and I sat down to figure out the basics of their sexual dimorphism, and finally settled on female wyvaran being leaner and taller and female trox being less colorful, but with a bioluminescent tail they use to attract males. Sadly, a lot of flavor text needs to be cut to make room for the player race statblocks.I'd always wanted to write up a fantasy or sci-fi society with three separate genders and figure out relationships and romance would work in that.There's still of lot of fleshing out left to do for the kasatha, trox, and who knows who else out in the Distant Worlds. :)
Wonder if you could do something like this with the Ghorans too, if they were to develop a means to truly reproduce rather than giving birth to themselves repeatedly.
(IIRC, Golarion flumphs are written as having reproduction be a communal effort, with it ultimately being organized into a sort of space program)
And now I have this adorable image in my head of trox lesbians, sitting together with their glowing tails entwined. If only I knew someone who could draw...
Has any Paizo product ever depicted a relationship between a reptilian humanoid and a a mammal, homosexual or otherwise?There's a relationship between a succubus and a female green dragon described in the Worldwound book.
Pathfinder Tales has a few. There's a relationship between a human and a naga in Pirate's Honor and between a green dragon and an elf in Queen of Thorns.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'm pretty sure humans are rather indiscriminateHow common are consensual relationships going to be between a lizardfolk and a human? I can't imagine that the typical person or lizardfolk even remotely consider the other species attractive, not to mention even compatible.
The Rysky Motto when it comes to fantasy relationships: If it gives consent, I will F*** it.
Are Trox males smaller and more colorful then?
I've got a male trox NPC and pictured him looking more or less like the one in the book.
|
Digital Products Assistant
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Are Trox males smaller and more colorful then?
I've got a male trox NPC and pictured him looking more or less like the one in the book.
The one in Bestiary 4 is female, who are the larger sex, more earth-toned, and with the aforementioned glowing tail. The one in the Advanced race guide is male, slightly smaller and with more color in his shell.
My personal theory is that the males decorate themselves to augment their natural shell coloration.
|
|
The Rysky Motto when it comes to fantasy relationships: If it gives consent, I will F*** it.I'm pretty sure humans are rather indiscriminateHow common are consensual relationships going to be between a lizardfolk and a human? I can't imagine that the typical person or lizardfolk even remotely consider the other species attractive, not to mention even compatible.
Depending on the alignment of the human in question of course.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Depending on the alignment of the human in question of course.The Rysky Motto when it comes to fantasy relationships: If it gives consent, I will F*** it.I'm pretty sure humans are rather indiscriminateHow common are consensual relationships going to be between a lizardfolk and a human? I can't imagine that the typical person or lizardfolk even remotely consider the other species attractive, not to mention even compatible.
Rysky may be CE, but he still waits for consent, otherwise that is a whole nother can of evil evil that I don't approve of.
|
|
Rysky may be CE, but he still waits for consent, otherwise that is a whole nother can of evil evil that I don't approve of.Depending on the alignment of the human in question of course.The Rysky Motto when it comes to fantasy relationships: If it gives consent, I will F*** it.I'm pretty sure humans are rather indiscriminateHow common are consensual relationships going to be between a lizardfolk and a human? I can't imagine that the typical person or lizardfolk even remotely consider the other species attractive, not to mention even compatible.
What about if it's really ugly?
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
What about if it's really ugly?Rysky may be CE, but he still waits for consent, otherwise that is a whole nother can of evil evil that I don't approve of.Depending on the alignment of the human in question of course.The Rysky Motto when it comes to fantasy relationships: If it gives consent, I will F*** it.I'm pretty sure humans are rather indiscriminateHow common are consensual relationships going to be between a lizardfolk and a human? I can't imagine that the typical person or lizardfolk even remotely consider the other species attractive, not to mention even compatible.
Rysky also has to give consent :3
Even (Chaotic) Evil has standards?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It all looks the same in the dark. ... Well unless you have darkvision.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I would like to take this moment to say, God bless the Etruscans. Damned if they weren't awesome and too short lived.Can we also get a shout-out for the Scythians, who Plato and Homer based the Amazons on!Geoffrey Ashe, in The Discovery of King Arthur, suggests that 'Arthur' was a Romanized Briton, possibly even kind of a 'soft' figure, better at diplomacy and tactics than actual fighting, while, if legends about him cementing an alliance by marrying the daughter of a Celtic chief are true, might well have been married to a woman who was, like all Celtic 'royals' of that age, of either gender, was expected to be able to defend herself against all challengers in a clash of arms, and had, among their other fun traits, a love of insulting the hell out of each other, and spreading their royal blood around the 'common folk' by sleeping with anyone who caught their eye, regardless of marital status.
Wouldn't that be a role reversal on the average Camelot movie, if 'Arthur' was a politician and tactician, a man of letters, not of action, and 'Guinevere' was a foul-mouthed lusty warrior-woman?
Well, Arthur needed that damn sword to be successful, so he couldn't have been that good a fighter anyway.
But yeah, I would like to watch something like that as well. Also, a good movie about Boudica.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'd also like to see more races with sexual patterns very different than humans. Extreme sexual dimorphism, physical and/or mental, not necessarily big strong violent males/small weak docile or manipulative females, but definitely leading to very gender based roles.
Sex switching during the lifecycle, like some fish do?
Or more than two sexes? I'm thinking Varley's centaurs, but now that I look they only had two sexes. Up to 4 could be involved in reproduction though.
I hope we get to explore Outsea in the River Kingdoms in greater detail for much that reason—the ceratioidi are a good example of extreme (and complicated) dimorphism.
For examples of more than two sexes, I'd recommend Octavia Butler's Lillith's Brood series.
Although they are not sentient (IIRC), the dreamsnakes in the Vonda McIntyre novel of the same name turn out to have three sexes, all of which are needed to reproduce.
Has any Paizo product ever depicted a relationship between a reptilian humanoid and a a mammal, homosexual or otherwise?There's a relationship between a succubus and a female green dragon described in the Worldwound book.
Well, that's worth two eyebrows to me. <8|
I would like to take this moment to say, God bless the Etruscans. Damned if they weren't awesome and too short lived.Can we also get a shout-out for the Scythians, who Plato and Homer based the Amazons on!Geoffrey Ashe, in The Discovery of King Arthur, suggests that 'Arthur' was a Romanized Briton, possibly even kind of a 'soft' figure, better at diplomacy and tactics than actual fighting, while, if legends about him cementing an alliance by marrying the daughter of a Celtic chief are true, might well have been married to a woman who was, like all Celtic 'royals' of that age, of either gender, was expected to be able to defend herself against all challengers in a clash of arms, and had, among their other fun traits, a love of insulting the hell out of each other, and spreading their royal blood around the 'common folk' by sleeping with anyone who caught their eye, regardless of marital status.
Wouldn't that be a role reversal on the average Camelot movie, if 'Arthur' was a politician and tactician, a man of letters, not of action, and 'Guinevere' was a foul-mouthed lusty warrior-woman?
Well, Arthur needed that damn sword to be successful, so he couldn't have been that good a fighter anyway.
But yeah, I would like to watch something like that as well. Also, a good movie about Boudica.
If I remember correctly, the sword in the stone was added later. Just because he wasn't as horrifically capable at arms as a Celtic 'hero' doesn't mean he wasn't any good in a fight, it just meant he fought with his brain more than his brawn & to be painfully honest, in an actual life-or-death fight, it's going to be the one who fights smarter that beats the one who fights harder.
|
|
I'll just save you time, "tolerance of intolerance is a false equivalency".
Also, to add to my earlier comment, if parents are waiting till their kids are 13 years old to give them "the talk",...
I feel that is a very weak arguement. It sounds like you should tolerate anything and everything someone wants to do, which obviously you cannot in any civilized society. You have to have some boundaries. I also believe that there are certain things that are not appropriate in a game that is supposed to have people of almost any age play. Pointing out that there is a gay paladin in Sandpoint or that the Chelaxian faction leader has bdsm equipment in her bedroom is not appropriate for a game in which you may have a ten year old playing. Let's be real. There are a lot of parents that would be horrified if their young child came to them and said. "I played PFS today, and we had to rescue a guy from his former guy lover. What's a lover?" This type of thing simply is not necessary for this game.
Pointing out that there is a gay paladin in Sandpoint or that the Chelaxian faction leader has bdsm equipment in her bedroom is not appropriate for a game in which you may have a ten year old playing.
Well, you're not completely wrong about the BDSM equipment. Hardly the same as a gay paladin though.
There are a lot of parents that would be horrified if their young child came to them and said. "I played PFS today, and we had to rescue a guy from his former guy lover. What's a lover?"
Would they be any less horrified if the kid said: "Today we had to rescue a girl from her former guy lover. What's a lover?"
Contributor
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I would watch the ever-living bejeezus out of this.I would like to take this moment to say, God bless the Etruscans. Damned if they weren't awesome and too short lived.Can we also get a shout-out for the Scythians, who Plato and Homer based the Amazons on!Geoffrey Ashe, in The Discovery of King Arthur, suggests that 'Arthur' was a Romanized Briton, possibly even kind of a 'soft' figure, better at diplomacy and tactics than actual fighting, while, if legends about him cementing an alliance by marrying the daughter of a Celtic chief are true, might well have been married to a woman who was, like all Celtic 'royals' of that age, of either gender, was expected to be able to defend herself against all challengers in a clash of arms, and had, among their other fun traits, a love of insulting the hell out of each other, and spreading their royal blood around the 'common folk' by sleeping with anyone who caught their eye, regardless of marital status.
Wouldn't that be a role reversal on the average Camelot movie, if 'Arthur' was a politician and tactician, a man of letters, not of action, and 'Guinevere' was a foul-mouthed lusty warrior-woman?
Well, Arthur was probably at least partly an Alan (I know a fair bit about this - I am working on a scholarly work on the subject), and hence a Scythian/Sarmatian, and this might explain the later depiction of his sister Morgaine, since that is the culture that gave us Amazons via Greek mythology. I think it's more likely on the whole that his whole family (sisters included) were fierce, horse-riding, badasses.
Morgaine was also in part conflated with Brunehaut or Brynhildr (she is even called "Brunnisent," an Occitan form of that name, in one work), who was a Valkyrie and in Norse legend, the sister of Attila and a Hun. Guinevere, for better or worse, is connected to relatively passive sovereignty figures, such as Svanhildr (who met a horrifying end), though there is some literary overlap evident in the Welsh material with Kreimhild, who is a pretty complex and disturbing figure.I definitely feel that Morgaine is the most interesting figure in Arthurian legend, particularly in those stories where she is equated with the Lady of the Lake. Her romantic and sexual autonomy is pretty unique in medieval romance; there's nothing like it in the Chansons de Geste, and the closest parallel, of course, is Brynhildr herself, in German and Norse legend.
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
I feel that is a very weak arguement. It sounds like you should tolerate anything and everything someone wants to do, which obviously you cannot in any civilized society. You have to have some boundaries. I also believe that there are certain things that are not appropriate in a game that is supposed to have people of almost any age play. Pointing out that there is a gay paladin in Sandpoint or that the Chelaxian faction leader has bdsm equipment in her bedroom is not appropriate for a game in which you may have a ten year old playing. Let's be real. There are a lot of parents that would be horrified if their young child came to them and said. "I played PFS today, and we had to rescue a guy from his former guy lover. What's a lover?" This type of thing simply is not necessary for this game.I'll just save you time, "tolerance of intolerance is a false equivalency".
Also, to add to my earlier comment, if parents are waiting till their kids are 13 years old to give them "the talk",...
Then how do you explain Snow White to kids? Do you cover the screen when Jasmine and Aladdin kiss at the end of the movie?
What about every other children's movie, because THEY ALL feature straight couples - many of the sequels end up making those same couples parents! How do you explain that?
How do you deal with the violence?
"What did you do at PFS today, Mandi?"
"I chopped off a troll's head and shoved an orc off a cliff! What's 'murder'?"
I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I really want to know. I keep hearing that queer relationships are somehow impossible to explain to kids - that they're the stuff of "mature audiences". I continue to challenge that opinion, but no one seems to be able to answer me.
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
It sounds like you should tolerate anything and everything someone wants to do, which obviously you cannot in any civilized society.
No one's saying that.
You have to have some boundaries.
Sure. And gay people are well within those boundaries.
I also believe that there are certain things that are not appropriate in a game that is supposed to have people of almost any age play. Pointing out that there is a gay paladin in Sandpoint or that the Chelaxian faction leader has bdsm equipment in her bedroom is not appropriate for a game in which you may have a ten year old playing.
Which Paizo product is about the Chelaxian faction leader having bdsm equipment in her bedroom?
And what's wrong with pointing out there's a gay paladin in Sandpoint? How does that negatively affect anyone?
You might go back and reread some of the recent posts in the thread, from a couple of days ago. In their depictions of homosexuality, Paizo generally doesn't go past indicating that a couple of NPCs are in (or were in) a same-sex relationship.
Let's be real. There are a lot of parents that would be horrified if their young child came to them and said. "I played PFS today, and we had to rescue a guy from his former guy lover. What's a lover?"
Who says "former guy lover"? What an odd phrase. If such a scenario were to occur, I'm sure the term "his ex-boyfriend" or (if appropriate) "his ex-husband" or just plain "his ex" would be used.
This type of thing simply is not necessary for this game
To echo Pig #1, would you say that a scenario in which a male character was rescued from his ex-girlfriend (or whatever term you prefer to use) would also be unnecessary? As far as gameplay is concerned, apart from the genders involved, there's basically no difference.
I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I really want to know. I keep hearing that queer relationships are somehow impossible to explain to kids - that they're the stuff of "mature audiences". I continue to challenge that opinion, but no one seems to be able to answer me.
Well said. I'd be curious as to what the answer is to that as well.
|
Contributor
|
| 8 people marked this as a favorite. |
Seriously, my 4 year old has friends with same-sex parents. Her aunt is trans, and she has gay cousins and so forth.
Most kids (particularly younger ones) are completely OK with such things; even kissing and hugging is affection, not sexuality per se. This is isn't the same thing as sex-ed, anyway.
The main reason she doesn't game (aside from illiteracy) is that the violence is a bigger issue. But she also knows what death is and that bad things happen. I guess you have to learn when life makes you learn (a bunch of people have died when she was young), but shielding your kids from the sheer ordinariness of the complexity of our lives makes them less resilient, and more fearful of the different, I think.
Admittedly, I live in a bubble. It's a lot more like Golarion than some of the places I've lived (Virginia), but that's a good thing. A good fifth to a quarter of my my extended family is queer. That's part of why I love them.
It's also one of many reasons why I love Golarion/Paizo.
Anevia Tirabade (from The Worldwound Incursion) is transgendered. Pretty cool backstory, if I do say so myself.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Or you know, Captain Wacky, it's also possible the pirate and his crewmamber just found their ideal partners/soulmates? Is that so weird?
With naga and nagaji (and possibly vishkanya), not only do I wonder about whether they are capable of parthenogenesis, but also if some might use female mimicry like some snakes do, such as the red-sided garter snake? (warning for instance of insensitive language choice in abstract) Or are some grippli capable of protogyny as some frog species do? If either of these can happen, how would it effect their social interactions and traditions, or color their interactions with and perceptions of other humanoids?
I haven't read the book, so I can't make a determination of whether or not they have found their "soul mates". And if your soul mate is a naga... then yes it is wierd. Don't get me wrong, to each their own. But by definition if it's "out of the ordinary", it is weird.
In a fantasy setting, I'm assuming for a human relationship to be considered "normal", would expand to include human-like races (elves, dwarves, etc...). But a Naga is a monsterous race, making their relationship weird.
Eh, my approach to fantasy settings is that people are people, no matter what they are. And it's easy to imagine all sorts of "unconventional" relationships crossing racial lines. Hell, that's practically the human race's hat in the game, when they aren't sharing it with dragons.
Besides, that human and that naga make a damn good looking couple. :)
Also, "Do what you want 'cause a pirate is free, You are a pirate..."
But yeah, I would like to watch something like that as well. Also, a good movie about Boudica.
Hot damn, yes.
We kind of got a glimpse of the "badass Guinevere" approach in that Clive Owen King Arthur movie(for what it was worth), but a fullblown woad-painted Celtic amazon played without any Hollywood "chickification"* would rock.
Fun fact: The trox illustrated in the Bestiary 4 is a female. Same with the wyvaran. Wes and I sat down to figure out the basics of their sexual dimorphism, and finally settled on female wyvaran being leaner and taller and female trox being less colorful, but with a bioluminescent tail they use to attract males. Sadly, a lot of flavor text needs to be cut to make room for the player race statblocks.
Did not know this. Going back to give those races a closer look now. :)
Bestiary 4/ARG broke from a lot of "traditional" dimorphism expectations with those folks and the kasatha.
And now I have this adorable image in my head of trox lesbians, sitting together with their glowing tails entwined. If only I knew someone who could draw...
With bioluminescent fungi instead of cherry blossoms!
I feel that is a very weak arguement. It sounds like you should tolerate anything and everything someone wants to do, which obviously you cannot in any civilized society. You have to have some boundaries. I also believe that there are certain things that are not appropriate in a game that is supposed to have people of almost any age play. Pointing out that there is a gay paladin in Sandpoint or that the Chelaxian faction leader has bdsm equipment in her bedroom is not appropriate for a game in which you may have a ten year old playing. Let's be real. There are a lot of parents that would be horrified if their young child came to them and said. "I played PFS today, and we had to rescue a guy from his former guy lover. What's a lover?" This type of thing simply is not necessary for this game.
To be perfectly honest, there will be some 40 year olds that will be horrified by the BDSM gear or gay paladin as well. While their are quote unquote mature situations that can come up in the game, the fact that the paladin is gay or that you had to rescue one guy from his former guy lover (an odd term, that) is not any more inappropriate than having a straight paladin or rescuing the fair maiden from her former male lover.
I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I really want to know. I keep hearing that queer relationships are somehow impossible to explain to kids - that they're the stuff of "mature audiences". I continue to challenge that opinion, but no one seems to be able to answer me.
They aren't impossible to explain to kids. I have twin 10 year olds and the talk took about five minutes. It isn't about mature audience materials, it's about not treating it as if you are talking about some sort of taboo or something wrong.
As for the material at the table, one should get an idea of who is at your table and move on accordingly. Kids are pretty flexible in their views; unless you plan on getting explicit they will likely move along with the game. Adults, who have years to build up their views and prejudices, can be more of a problem in my experience.
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
The bit about the Paracountess with BDSM gear in her boudoir is in First Steps, Part I. My primary objection to it is the association of BDSM with evil. Why can't paladins work off some stress with a little consensual flogging and power exchange play?
|
Contributor
|
The bit about the Paracountess with BDSM gear in her boudoir is in First Steps, Part I. My primary objection to it is the association of BDSM with evil. Why can't paladins work off some stress with a little consensual flogging and power exchange play?
She is classified as evil, though obviously all of her Chelish faction minions are at minimum Neutral. Hmm.
Inanna is LG? That's cool. Her descent to the underworld has always moved me.
|
|
| 7 people marked this as a favorite. |
The bit about the Paracountess with BDSM gear in her boudoir is in First Steps, Part I. My primary objection to it is the association of BDSM with evil. Why can't paladins work off some stress with a little consensual flogging and power exchange play?
I daresay Seltyiel only started dressing that way after he started associating with Seelah.
WAR said that key in Seelah's iconic art is for a chastity belt. He didn't specify who was wearing the belt.
[/rocksolidargument]
srsly though, with Shelyn(roses have thorns), Arshea(look at that weapon s/he's weilding), and Lymnieris having paladins, there's definitely some paladins out there with a taste for it.
And one can be damn certain they respect SSC and don't skimp on the aftercare either!
I would watch the ever-living bejeezus out of this.I would like to take this moment to say, God bless the Etruscans. Damned if they weren't awesome and too short lived.Can we also get a shout-out for the Scythians, who Plato and Homer based the Amazons on!Geoffrey Ashe, in The Discovery of King Arthur, suggests that 'Arthur' was a Romanized Briton, possibly even kind of a 'soft' figure, better at diplomacy and tactics than actual fighting, while, if legends about him cementing an alliance by marrying the daughter of a Celtic chief are true, might well have been married to a woman who was, like all Celtic 'royals' of that age, of either gender, was expected to be able to defend herself against all challengers in a clash of arms, and had, among their other fun traits, a love of insulting the hell out of each other, and spreading their royal blood around the 'common folk' by sleeping with anyone who caught their eye, regardless of marital status.
Wouldn't that be a role reversal on the average Camelot movie, if 'Arthur' was a politician and tactician, a man of letters, not of action, and 'Guinevere' was a foul-mouthed lusty warrior-woman?
Well, Arthur was probably at least partly an Alan (I know a fair bit about this - I am working on a scholarly work on the subject), and hence a Scythian/Sarmatian, and this might explain the later depiction of his sister Morgaine, since that is the culture that gave us Amazons via Greek mythology. I think it's more likely on the whole that his whole family (sisters included) were fierce, horse-riding, badasses.
Morgaine was also in part conflated with Brunehaut or Brynhildr (she is even called "Brunnisent," an Occitan form of that name, in one work), who was a Valkyrie and in Norse legend, the sister of Attila and a Hun. Guinevere, for better or worse, is connected to relatively...
Nothing to do with the thread topic, but you (that's a plural you, including any and all quoted in this post) might enjoy the hell out of The Morgaine Cycle by C.J. Cherryh.
|
|
The bit about the Paracountess with BDSM gear in her boudoir is in First Steps, Part I. My primary objection to it is the association of BDSM with evil. Why can't paladins work off some stress with a little consensual flogging and power exchange play?I daresay Seltyiel only started dressing that way after he started associating with Seelah.
WAR said that key in Seelah's iconic art is for a chastity belt. He didn't specify who was wearing the belt.
[/rocksolidargument]
srsly though, with Shelyn(roses have thorns), Arshea(look at that weapon s/he's weilding), and Lymnieris having paladins, there's definitely some paladins out there with a taste for it.
And one can be damn certain they respect SSC and don't skimp on the aftercare either!
Oil of Cure Light Wounds anyone? :3
|
Contributor
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Nothing to do with the thread topic, but you (that's a plural you, including any and all quoted in this post) might enjoy the hell out of The Morgaine Cycle by C.J. Cherryh.
Oh yes, Cherryh was an (online) friend of my father's (that plus Varley made him queer friendly and finally accept my great uncles) and one of my favourite authors as a kid. Proof positive that queer friendly SF skews the curve.
Plus she was ahead of Mikaze's game in terms of xeno-eros.
Love Cherryh's Morgaine cycle something fierce. :-)
|
|
Nothing to do with the thread topic, but you (that's a plural you, including any and all quoted in this post) might enjoy the hell out of The Morgaine Cycle by C.J. Cherryh.Oh yes, Cherryh was an (online) friend of my father's (that plus Varley made him queer friendly and finally accept my great uncles) and one of my favourite authors as a kid. Proof positive that queer friendly SF skews the curve.
Plus she was ahead of Mikaze's game in terms of xeno-eros.
I was wondering why I keep getting recommended Cherryh's work...
;)
Sounds like The Morgaine Cycle is going on my reading list! :D
Premarin still exists and is dirt cheap. Certainly not the most humane way to go about it. The horses have to be kept pregant basically and conditions are not all that great from what I've heard. That might have changed in the past 12 years since I last looked into it. It had side effects for me that were unpleasant. Also, the methods of isolating hormones, if I remember correctly, also isolated many hormones that didn't have a human analog so who knows what they do. Yams are also a source and bio identical. Their isolation leaves exactly one type of estrogen, I think. It's been awhile since I looked at all of that information. I generally warn people off premarin if I can. There are enough better sources of estrogen out there for HRT that are more accurate, more humane, and better for the environment.
The industry is still horrific, and the primary byproducts of pregnancy are babies. Unfortunately that's where pony hides come from.
On topic, I personally fell that the adventures life style would be an appealing and safe choice for queer folk in a fantasy world. If we look at our history we see this in piracy(as already noted), going farther back to iron age Ireland we see the fionna , outlaws, with many characters who can easily be seen as queer. Should Queer folk be represented in the gaming world, yes. Should it be blatant, why not!
|
|
On topic, I personally fell that the adventures life style would be an appealing and safe choice for queer folk in a fantasy world.
A major theme of the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings is how other hobbits regarded the Baggins family as a bit 'queer' (in the old-fashioned sense of the word) for their wanderlust and adventuring spirit. To more sedentary folk, folk with families, businesses, homesteads, etc. to tie them to a specific location, adventurers must already seem terribly 'non-traditional' or even a little bit crazy, and therefore might attract a greater than normal percentage of people who were already prone to rowing against whatever currents prevailed among their home cultures.
So, even if the setting had a bunch of areas that were strongly locked into gender roles and muddle-headed notions of what's 'appropriately' manly or feminine, adventurers would likely buck those traditions, even those of their home regions or cultures, as they travel to many very different places and work alongside members of very different cultures.
|
When you get down to it, (in humans, at least) the differences between the sexes are so mild that you can bridge everything but pregnancy with horse pee.I've never heard this before. How does this work?Urine from a mare in heat or pregnant contains high levels of estrogens almost identical to those produced by humans. Since ancient times, potions and pills made from it have been used to alleviate the symptoms of menopause and relieve menstrual cramps. In at least one example, the Scythians (who had a place of honor in their culture for trans women as priestesses) were reported by Ovid as having a "female poison" made from the urine of mares in heat.
In modern times, the most common estrogen supplement for cis or trans women is Premarin, which is literally made from pregnant mare urine. Unfortunately, the industrial practice is pretty cruel to the horses, and if you have interest in hormone replacement therapy I would encourage you to find another supplement.
The most common replacement these days is actually synthetic bioequivalent estrogen, which doesn't involve horses.
{appears in cheerleader outfit} I'm nudging/pushing Mikaze every chance I get. He's gotten into a couple Wayfinders and will make his debut (I think) in a paid 3PP very soon. :Dmore neat stuffWhy aren't you a game designer? You always seem to come up with interesting nooks and crannies and extensions of the setting.Whoa, hey. I'm not the only one posting on this page of this thread that's going to be in there, Ambrosia Slaad. ;)
Also, nagaji for sure.
...though actual nagas do have more appealing faces...
one thousand favorites for you, gentle sir.
... is not appropriate for a game in which you may have a ten year old playing. ...
PF and like games are recommended for 13 and older. So yeah, not really surprising there may be things inappropriate for a 10 year old. Come back in 3 years and see if the kid can handle it then.
|
Digital Products Assistant
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The most common replacement these days is actually synthetic bioequivalent estrogen, which doesn't involve horses.When you get down to it, (in humans, at least) the differences between the sexes are so mild that you can bridge everything but pregnancy with horse pee.I've never heard this before. How does this work?Urine from a mare in heat or pregnant contains high levels of estrogens almost identical to those produced by humans. Since ancient times, potions and pills made from it have been used to alleviate the symptoms of menopause and relieve menstrual cramps. In at least one example, the Scythians (who had a place of honor in their culture for trans women as priestesses) were reported by Ovid as having a "female poison" made from the urine of mares in heat.
In modern times, the most common estrogen supplement for cis or trans women is Premarin, which is literally made from pregnant mare urine. Unfortunately, the industrial practice is pretty cruel to the horses, and if you have interest in hormone replacement therapy I would encourage you to find another supplement.
The gist of my argument was that the physical difference between the sexes in humans is minor and easily overcome, and has been for millenia, not that horses were an essential part of the process.