Ive always liked the dice system and i hope they put somthing in about the good old rolling d6s for stats
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Roll 5d6 and drop the two lowest.
This could be bad...
Roll 2d10, drop nothing.
How about this..
50 point buy standard system. *snickers*
Ability = Point Cost
-------------------
09 = 2
10 = 4
11 = 6
12 = 8
13 = 10
14 = 12
15 = 16
16 = 20
17 = 26
18 = 32
Type of Campaign = Points Allowed
---------------------------------------
Low-powered campaign = 30 points
Challenging campaign = 44 points
Tougher campaign = 56 points
High-powered campaign = 64 points
I can think of 100 ways to tweak the 3.5 system. :)
3d4+6 for each stat, generating scores between 9 and 18?
4d6 drop the lowest die arrange to taste,5d6 drop the lowest 2 arrange to taste
4d6 drop the lowest die arrange to taste,5d6 drop the lowest 2 arrange to taste
I usually use 5d6 drop two lowest, it tends to give pretty decent stats.
We like high stats we do 4d6 re roll ones
another crazy idea we are looking into the mathmatical probability of is rolling 28 d6 and arrange as desired
we want to know staticaly (friend in a stats class asking his teacher) how close there are cause when you roll them they are pretty close (in the ten tests we did)
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3d4+6 for each stat, generating scores between 9 and 18?I really like this one! You get my vote.
Um, no thank you. When you run the math, its a very messed up system. You get ridiculously high character abilities. Your average Ability will be 13-14 and the odds of having an 18 for any one ability is 1 in 64.
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3d6+2. Gives an average of 12.5 like normal and a range of 5-20. Not too low of lows and the possibility of getting a 20 is like the old skool 18s with the percentage after it. I love the method.
You could also reverse the buy. Start with all 18s and deconstruct using points with some restrictions to avoid the uber-min/maxers having three 18s and three 8s or lower.
Um, no thank you. When you run the math, its a very messed up system. You get ridiculously high character abilities. Your average Ability will be 13-14 and the odds of having an 18 for any one ability is 1 in 64.3d4+6 for each stat, generating scores between 9 and 18?I really like this one! You get my vote.
Whats wrong with high stats last time i checked we were playing as heros and villians or great epics if we dont have some high stats we mine as well stay as a farmer or city guard
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3d6+2. Gives an average of 12.5 like normal and a range of 5-20. Not too low of lows and the possibility of getting a 20 is like the old skool 18s with the percentage after it. I love the method.
That's not too bad, but do you really want a fighter with 22 str at 1st level?
Is 4d6 drop the lowest in any way a protected concept?
My next game I plan on doing 4d6, drop the lowest, take in the order you roll. That to me is going to have more of an old school feel.
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Whats wrong with high stats last time i checked we were playing as heros and villians or great epics if we dont have some high stats we mine as well stay as a farmer or city guardUm, no thank you. When you run the math, its a very messed up system. You get ridiculously high character abilities. Your average Ability will be 13-14 and the odds of having an 18 for any one ability is 1 in 64.3d4+6 for each stat, generating scores between 9 and 18?I really like this one! You get my vote.
I like high stats, but I also like the possibility of having low stats upon occasion. :)
Games where everyone's abilities are all 14 and above would feel a little too munchkiny to me.
I personally think the average ability should be 12.
Course I remember back in the day when the average was 10.5 so 12 has always seemed like a high average to me. :)
YMMV
The problem with staying as you roll most time the rolls tell you what class you are going to play not what you want to play
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3d6+2. Gives an average of 12.5 like normal and a range of 5-20. Not too low of lows and the possibility of getting a 20 is like the old skool 18s with the percentage after it. I love the method.
That's not too bad, but do you really want a fighter with 22 str at 1st level?
Is 4d6 drop the lowest in any way a protected concept?
My next game I plan on doing 4d6, drop the lowest, take in the order you roll. That to me is going to have more of an old school feel.
The chance of someone getting a 20 is the same as someone getting an 18 in first edition, pretty slim.
I actually like the 'take in order' method except that you might end up with no clerics, or no wizards, or no..... whatever, if everyone happens to bomb the same ability rolls.I thought that rolling for Str or Dex and assigning it to either, then rolling for the remaining one and con and assigning that to either, and continuing down the line would be an OK method and make it less likely to be a min-maxer's dream but still have some versatility.
Myself and my group highly dislike rolling, we'd much rather have 32 point-buy which is our standard or an array based off 32 to 40.
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The most fun I ever had during charater creation was a "tarot reading" system that Craig Shakleton wrote for Dragon mag (don't know the issue number)using the 3 Dragon Ante deck. There was a side bar about using a regular deck of cards. It injects a random element into a point buy. I don't remember how it worked exactly, but I got to play a swashbuckler, which was what I wanted.
Director of Brand Strategy
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My next game I plan on doing 4d6, drop the lowest, take in the order you roll. That to me is going to have more of an old school feel.
We did that for the STAP game I'm playing now and got a really cool variety of characters since everyone had to create a character around their restrictive stats. Those who rolled way below the average of the group were given extra stuff by the DM (dragonblood features, etc.)
man its 3-18 d6 are best for that so 3d6 4d6'5d6' or even 6d6 would be usable the point buy junk would have to be a total rebuild it should be done as a sidebar however
not like dnd is the only system to roll die for stats
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Eh? This decision is largely made by the GM. I've seen and used all the following:
6x 4d6, drop lowest
7x 4d6, drop lowest, remove average score
6x 5d6, drop two lowest
6x 4d6, drop lowest, reroll 1s
x-point-buy
The 6x-4d6-drop-lowest is the most common, and would encourage it as normal play. Alternatively a 28-32 point-buy system is good for organized play and for those who don't want the dice to decide everything.
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Since character creation and ability score generation are not part of the OGL, how will PRPG handle these essential items?
Is there a way to stay close to what we are all used to without infringing on WotC's IP? How have other game systems handled this?
Wait ... what? Sorry, I'm not sure what this means exactly.
Are you saying that the actual method of rolling for stats are not in the OGL? If that's true, wouldn't that mean that NO company could produce a dice based game that involved rolling in some way for stats? Is this an acurate reading of the license? IF it is, wouldn't this be a pretty BIG deal?
I would think something as basic to RPG games as this is too much a staple of the industry at this point for WOTC to govern. I mean, using character sheets isn't covered in the OGL either ... does this mean Paizo can't use character sheets?
I'm no lawyer - am I missing the point here?
Since character creation and ability score generation are not part of the OGL, how will PRPG handle these essential items?
Is there a way to stay close to what we are all used to without infringing on WotC's IP? How have other game systems handled this?
Are you saying that the actual method of rolling for stats are not in the OGL? If that's true, wouldn't that mean that NO company could produce a dice based game that involved rolling in some way for stats? Is this an acurate reading of the license? IF it is, wouldn't this be a pretty BIG deal?
Two things are not included in the SRD: Generating Ability Scores and Explanation of Leveling. This was to ensure that the Core Books were being purchased. If you look at the Mongoose Publishing "reprints" of the OGL, it is missing those two pieces (and some IP stuff, but that's another thread).
I'm actually curious how Paizo is going to get around this. Leveling shouldn't be a problem, but you can't say "Oh, you need to look at the chart for the class and take those things, apply hit points, and skills". Never mind Multi-classing. Ability scores, you can't say anything listed in prior posts.
Of course, I'm not a lawyer. But this is what I've heard over time.
Do like True20 (and some others) and simply get rid of the scores and instead focus on the bonuses (that's all they are for to begin with, right?) So have scores like Strength +2, Wisdom +4 etcera.
And then do a simple point buy. You get 6 or 7 points...one for one.
So a 6 point would look like this:
Str +3
Int +0
Dex +1
Con +2
Wis +0
Cha +0
for a human fighter for example.
my 2 cents...
I would suggest taking a page from Alternity, which gave you 60 points to divide inbetween 6 ability scores. Granted, 10 was at the upper medium range in Alternity (humans scores ranged from 4-14) so a better design might be to say that everyone gets 66 (or 70) points to distribute as they wish, with a minimum of 6-8 in the Abilities?
We always used 75 Ability points alocated freely (max. 18 before racial adjustments).
Since all ability bonuses are linear and not exponential, it's not really fair/needed/logical to increase the costs of higher abilities.
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What I use is a slight variant from the rules presented in one of Green Ronin's Advanced Manuals. It amounts to your initial class determines your array of stats. You get a grand total of 28d6 split amongst the 6 stats but how they're arranged depends on you first class. You still only keep three of the dice even you get to roll 7d6 on a stat, like a wizard's intelligence. While this does tend to pigeonhole you in your first class, it also all but guarantees that you'll be able to take care of the things that your class does well
Guys, 4d6 and 32 point buy are out because they're not part of the SRD.
It's out there anyway (at least 4d6 drop lowest). If nothing else, it's in Malhavoc's Arcana Evolved and it's OGC. Problem solved.
I didn't check to see if point buy is in there, but it probably wouldn't be difficult to either find an example or re-create it. Given higher ability scores are harder to come by than medium ones, it's a mathematical given that to re-create that in point buy it would cost more to go from 17 to 18 than 11 to 12. So I don't see it as an issue at all of having 4d6 drop lowest and some form of point buy included in the Pathfinder RPG.
What I think would be really fun is if they included an optional Harrow Deck ability score system. I regularly use the Three Dragon Ante one, but haven't tried the Harrow Deck one I've seen on these boards.
I prefer the Nonstandard Point Buy - High-powered campaign (32 points) as described on page 169 of the DMG.
It allows great customization, and classes that rely on high ability scores (like Monks of Paladins) can have decent characters. Furthermore, it allows my players to "roll" their character wherever they want without good luck, bad luck or cheating. Beside, this ability generation makes sure every character starts even.
- Zorg
My proposal does the same WITHOUT the need of looking up ability point costs.
And if 75 points are to low (it's an average 12,5 per ability) you can always increase the number to anywhere you like.
I like options, and think the final product will have a bunch of them. I expect some arrays to make the cut. The designers have used the arrays in the games they write, and seem happy with the conveinience they afford. One of the options should be roll 3d6 six times, in order, as a memorial.
Harrow
Regardless of what they "suggest," I will probably keep using the same system I've been using since I started playing D&D. 4d6, drop lowest, arrange to taste. It's the way the 1e AD&D DMG recommends doing it and I've never seen anything that convinced me it needed to be otherwise.
The only thing I wish they would add is some way to make odd scores tangibly valuable. I don't think the occasional feat prereq. really counts.
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** spoiler omitted **
(Not sure how to do the whole spoiler thing.)
I've done something similar, to keep PCs on equal footing for special campaigns. Character creation tends to be done separately before gameplay, and there was some temptation to keep "everyone honest" without the complications of the point-buy system.
Normally, our groups tend to go with 4d6 (drop 1) or 5d6 (drop 2) and arrange as desired.
I'm not familiar with True20, but like the idea of simply generating the modifiers. (Does that allow for ability penalties?)
3d6 6 times in order.
You play what you roll!
None of this sissy I want to play a fighter so I'm going to put my highest roll in STR.
ASEO out
I deeply despise rolling for abilities personally. I much prefer the point buy system and hope Pathfinder goes with that. Point buy starts everyone off on equal footing. It also allows for more controlled scaling based on campign style. The random rolls for attributes are a terrible mechanic in my view and can result in wildly different abilities scores between character. Had a character in 2nd edition who due to poor rolling using the standard system failed to qualify for any class (no ability at 9 or higher). However, if they dont I will just port it over from the 3.5 DMG.
-Weylin Stormcrowe
Last time I had characters roll for stats it went:
Start with 6 in each stat
Roll 1d6 6x, assign to a stat
Roll 6d6, buy points with point buy.
I still got some powerful characters out of it and all the characters have low Chr or Wis scores, so maybe next time I have the 1d6 6x be assigned in order of roll, but overall it wasn't too bad.
The two popular methods I can think of from the groups I've been in are
80 point 1:1 point buy, spread the points where you like, minimum of 3, maximum of 18 before racial modifiers.
(4d6[re-roll 1's], drop roll of choice)x7, drop score of choice.
Not always are the lowest rolls/scores dropped.
3d6 + 1d8, drop the lowest, arrange to taste.
Gives an average of 14 with a high of 20.
And I HAVE also rolled a 4 with this system.
Several times.
I think the optimum would be two systems. One die roll based and one point buy based. That covers both major bases. Many individual groups are likely going to use their own house rule rolling system or point buy system anyway.So we only need one of each type presented in the core book.
-Weylin Stormcrowe
I do something different with each game. Keeps the players on their toes.
I've done the standard 4d6 drop the lowest, arrange as desired. I've done point buy out of the DMG. I've had the characters roll 25d6 group in 6 groups of 3 drop the remainder and arrange as desire. The last one was roll 5d6 drop the two lowest (They all rolled abysmally, I got quite a laugh.) I honestly have no preference for what method the folks here come up with. I'll likely give it a try, but I'll continue to experiment.
While I REALLY hate dice rolling for chargen (abilities & HPs) my old group often used the "Assh0le"-methode.
It's 3d6+1d6, dropping the lowest of the 3d6. It's quite funny though.
(And I guess you see why it's called that way...)