I was chatting with Nick Logue last night and he said he received a sad email from WotC saying they could no longer use his work. He said it was related to the GSL and his employment at Paizo.
Has anyone else received anything like this?
I'm wondering if WotC is requiring anyone who publishes with them to sign an agreement that they won't develop for 3.5 OGL, including any freelance work. It would seem to be a good move at helping to kill the OGL; it seems like their biggest competition has always been former employees. If everyone who publishes material through DDI cannot publish material for OGL, how would that impact the hobby?
Well before I jumped to conclusions about it having to do with the OGL, I'd first ask Paizo if they have agreements on their staff members writing Wizards products. I mean a good number of Paizo employees have written wizards better work and I would not be surprised at all if Wizards and Paizo had an agreement about it having to go through certain legally appropriate channels.
I'd prefer to give Wizards the benefit of the doubt on something like this. This just seems unnecessarily petty on their part if it did have something to do with the OGL.
Eww.
I can't think this is a good move on their part if true.
[sarcasm]
Come on people, you all know that having someone like the Logue write for you won't sell. It is just a smart business move.
[/sarcasm]
On the bright side, Paizo could probably use that work he's completed for Wizards already in Pathfinder, with some tweeking of course. Time honored OGL tradition, if one publisher rejects your work, modify it slightly and submit it to another publisher.
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Well before I jumped to conclusions about it having to do with the OGL, I'd first ask Paizo if they have agreements on their staff members writing Wizards products. I mean a good number of Paizo employees have written wizards better work and I would not be surprised at all if Wizards and Paizo had an agreement about it having to go through certain legally appropriate channels.
I'd prefer to give Wizards the benefit of the doubt on something like this. This just seems unnecessarily petty on their part if it did have something to do with the OGL.
Paizo doesn't restrict its employees from writing for other companies, as long as that writing is done on a freelance basis and isn't done on company time or with company resources. Which is totally fair, really.
I've heard that WotC no longer lets its employees do freelance for other companies without getting permission from a manager first. Which totally makes sense for WotC, really.
I can't think this is a good move on their part if true.
There's hope at this point that 3.5 will be profitable in the future.
If that does not happen, freelancers may turn to WotC. WotC helped a lot of writers in the past get the fanbase they have today because of the amount of exposure WotC provides. If the choice comes down to 'get my work published by a small niche like Paizo' or 'get my work published by Wizards of the Coast', I'm worried that some upcoming 'RPG Superstars' could lean towards the latter.
If someone's goal at WotC is to make the OGL unprofitable then I see this as one possible move.
Paizo doesn't restrict its employees from writing for other companies, as long as that writing is done on a freelance basis and isn't done on company time or with company resources. Which is totally fair, really.
Well it was a thought. There goes that theory.
I want to like 4e. I really do. I am excited to play it.
But to ask your freelancers to limit their writing opportunities is just not cool.
Not cool at all, man.
I've heard that WotC no longer lets its employees do freelance for other companies without getting permission from a manager first. Which totally makes sense for WotC, really.
Nick wasn't a WotC employee though. What if they are extending it to all freelancers? Or contributers to the DDI, should that become successful?
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I can't think this is a good move on their part if true.There's hope at this point that 3.5 will be profitable in the future.
If that does not happen, freelancers may turn to WotC. WotC helped a lot of writers in the past get the fanbase they have today because of the amount of exposure WotC provides. If the choice comes down to 'get my work published by a small niche like Paizo' or 'get my work published by Wizards of the Coast', I'm worried that some upcoming 'RPG Superstars' could lean towards the latter.
If someone's goal at WotC is to make the OGL unprofitable then I see this as one possible move.
WotC got a lot of the talent that they did today by picking up creative people from the 3rd party publishers. Squashing that market is not good for the pool of talent in general.
To use an analogy. Baseball would be a far different game if the major league teams did not have a field of minor league teams to draw from. The MLB, instead of viewing the smaller teams as competition for the fan base, instead sees them as necessities for the training and recruitment of the best possible players. Thus the Major League clubs provide financial support for the minor league clubs.
I'm not saying WotC should subsidize the smaller companies but its better for them if they encouraged their growth and then picked the best talent from the 'minor leagues' as it were.
At least IMO.
WotC got a lot of the talent that they did today by picking up creative people from the 3rd party publishers. Squashing that market is not good for the pool of talent in general.
I'm guessing they are shifting towards the DDI and RPGA to recruit this talent.
To use your analogy, they've decided to work like the NFL and recruit directly from amateurs.
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Nick wasn't a WotC employee though. What if they are extending it to all freelancers? Or contributers to the DDI, should that become successful?
I don't know. I refuse to engage in speculation, since I work under an NDA. I will only relay facts.
Of Paizo's employees, only Jason has received any freelance work from WotC since Elder Evils wrapped up 16 months ago, and Jason's freelance was for a Dungeon Tiles product.
Wow,
This is just_Lame_on the part of WOTC.
Jeez Takasi,
I'm not trying to troll ya...
...but I have to wonder, did Nick give you his blessing for you to make this community news? I mean it is his private employment opportunities that you're talking about here.
And I say this as someone who has spoken to Nick privately too in the past, and would like to see him supported in every way. I've never met him but consider him a friend. I'd like to see him have opportunities to make a fair living at his craft. Now that this news is out there, I am concerned for Nick too, just like you are I'm sure.. I want to be clear, I think this was questionable judgment, but I don't doubt your sincerity or your good intentions.
The problem with anybody besides Nick Logue making this announcement is that anybody is free to put whatever spin they want on this. Nick no longer has any control on how this news is received, or what the public reaction will be.
Case in point; look at Paizo before the 4th Edition decision was made. They didn't want any unprofessional or hateful personal comments associated with them- because that's not how a business professional behaves. No professional wants to be privately represented by a potentially angry mob.
Well, there's not much to be done about now.. but before RUMOR CONTROL goes berserk, let's pause and give Nick a chance to say whatever, if anything, he actually wants to say to us about it.
Too late, Watcher. I already posted this whole exhange to Gleemax and Enworld and I told my mom's Bridge club about it to.
They were all a twitter.
Too late, Watcher. I already posted this whole exhange to Gleemax and Enworld and I told my mom's Bridge club about it to.
They were all a twitter.
Heh.
Well.. the cat's in the bag, and the bag is in the river.
The question remains, who was a twitter more, Bridge Club or Gleemax? ;-)
************
Speaking of Gleemax, I was disappointed to find out the name is based on a MtG Card.. I always thought it was slang for blotter acid.
It was mentioned in general chat last night. I am not sure what purpose telling everybody about it serves.
Ah...
Well, alright if he made it public in a chatroom, I don't suppose I can take Takasi to task for it.
I retract what I said.
**********
Waitaminute, general chat is on Tuesday isn't it?
::shakes head::
Never mind. Like Pilate said, I wash my hands of it.
hey two episodes of breaking bad had the titles you mentioned watcher
You lost me.
Breaking Bad?
Titles I mentioned?
I always thought it was slang for blotter acid.
Dude.
I deleted my first post hoping it would delete the thread but it didn't.
I sent a note to the mods at EN World hoping they'd delete that one too. Chat's been down today, otherwise I would have talked about this there. Personally I'm just very upset that Nick won't be writing for Eberron any longer.
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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I can't think this is a good move on their part if true.There's hope at this point that 3.5 will be profitable in the future.
If that does not happen, freelancers may turn to WotC. WotC helped a lot of writers in the past get the fanbase they have today because of the amount of exposure WotC provides. If the choice comes down to 'get my work published by a small niche like Paizo' or 'get my work published by Wizards of the Coast', I'm worried that some upcoming 'RPG Superstars' could lean towards the latter.
If someone's goal at WotC is to make the OGL unprofitable then I see this as one possible move.
While I'm certainly not 'RPG Superstar' yet, I was happy with my top 32 placement, and am continuing to submit queries and entries for design contests for 3.5 related material. I personally don't have an interest in 4E, or writing anything for that system, so a move like this by WOTC won't affect anything I write. Other new talent will certainly prefer 4E to 3.5, and will choose to write for WOTC based on their preference, and I don't think that they will miss 3.5. I think that in the long run, most writers will probably stick to one system or the other, based on their personal preference and which system lets them tell their stories best, assuming that 3.5 derived games remains a viable market.
This move is most restrictive to established talent that is in demand because of their style and brand, and might very well be insterested in writing for multiple systems. From a business point of view, I do think that it make sense for WOTC to treat OGL products and systems as competition, and use whatever resources and legal options they have to compete.
I deleted my first post hoping it would delete the thread but it didn't.
I sent a note to the mods at EN World hoping they'd delete that one too. Chat's been down today, otherwise I would have talked about this there. Personally I'm just very upset that Nick won't be writing for Eberron any longer.
I understand, and I'm sure Nick will too.
Like I said, I'm sure you had good intentions.. and Nick did say it in a chatroom and obviously didn't qualify that it was to be kept in confidence.
Don't let my post wreck your day.
We'll just have to make sure he doesn't need to work for WOTC...One more order for Indulgences Wave One coming up.
FYI, Nick posted over at EN World, that it's a temporary thing.
They just mentioned that my new job with Paizo caused some GSL issues and policy snags, so I'd have to hold off on a couple more projects until the GSL issue is resolved. Once the question of the GSL is dealt with, they are planning on using me again (at least they probably were before this thread).
So, we can put our pitchforks and torches away for now. :)
(Oh, and he does sneak in the comment that he's currently working on 4 projects for WotC, so some WotC is still being Logue-ified. *shudder*)
So, we can put our pitchforks and torches away for now. :)
(Oh, and he does sneak in the comment that he's currently working on 4 projects for WotC, so some WotC is still being Logue-ified. *shudder*)
Thanks for the update Ken!
So, we can put our pitchforks and torches away for now. :)
Damn, and I just bought stock in Torches and Pitchforks R Us. I just can't seem to win.
Ah, a nice dose of drama for the day. =)
Ah, a nice dose of drama for the day. =)
Hehe, I just read that EN World thread. I'm gentle as a puppy compared to Clark Peterson.
Don't feel bad Tak- he's let me have it before too. Life will go on.
Great work, Takasi
Great work, Takasi
Learned the hard way you can't unring bells.
I blame the chat room going down!
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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For what it's worth, back in the stupid old days,...
Some people at TSR, about 17 - 20 years ago, apparently liked to bring lawsuits against other game companies. One of these was Mayfair Games, because:
- Waaay back in the early days, another company had gotten blanket permission (an irrevokable, assignable license) to produce "official AD&D" adventures,
- That other company went bankrupt and sold that license to Mayfair,
- TSR didn't like Mayfair publishing "official AD&D" product.
And TSR's upper management instituted a policy that refused to hire any freelancer who was also working for any companies they were mad at. There were lots of companies they were mad at.
TSR's editorial and management staff was not happy, because there were freelancers they would want to hire, but who were blocked by this policy. So the editorial folks came up with the clever idea to ask upper management for a reason behind this policy.
And "because we're butt-heads" didn't seem to be popular enough to be made official, so the stated reason was "to clearly distinguish the AD&D brand".
"So you don't want any names on both our products and competitor projects?"
"Right."
"So we can hire them, just asking for a nom de plume, right?"
"Uh..."
So, we freelancers were told we'd be wanting to come up with a pseudonym for our TSR work. Before that step was implemented, uper management decided it was a dumb idea and relented.
So...
...if all these spectaculations are true, then maybe Nick will be allowed to write for D&D 4th Ed under a clever pseudonym.
I suggest "Buster Pett".
So, we can put our pitchforks and torches away for now. :)Damn, and I just bought stock in Torches and Pitchforks R Us. I just can't seem to win.
Man,I can't wait for 4e! It's going to be cool! Like the coolest thing ever! Because of all the coolness in it! Woohoo, everybody, over here--me big-time 4e fanboy!!!
You owe me one, pard!
Great work, TakasiLearned the hard way you can't unring bells.
I blame the chat room going down!
Ha!
No worries! The chat room cut out before we got to talk about it really! Not your fault! Just a misunderstanding!
You are LOVED! :-)
They were all a twitter.
Dude! Your mom is on twitter?
Cool!
As Steve Marten said,"It's ok for me!"
This means that Living Kalamar, Living Shining Jewel, and Living Arcanas will never convert to WOTC4.0.
I can go to conventions and play.
WOTC4.0 seems to want to distance it'self from 3.5, open game license, and D20. You can't convert anything. You can't write for both. At least they are being consistant. They certainly won't be putting out anything generic. Sorry, but generic products will still be useable by people who go 4.0. That's their nature. Only at Gencon, Winter Fantasy, and the other offical con, will they be able to police the tables
As Steve Marten said,"It's ok for me!"
This means that Living Kalamar, Living Shining Jewel, and Living Arcanas will never convert to WOTC4.0.
I can go to conventions and play.WOTC4.0 seems to want to distance it'self from 3.5, open game license, and D20. You can't convert anything. You can't write for both. At least they are being consistant. They certainly won't be putting out anything generic. Sorry, but generic products will still be useable by people who go 4.0. That's their nature. Only at Gencon, Winter Fantasy, and the other offical con, will they be able to police the tables
If you're looking into continued 3.5 support check this out: Sinister Adventures
Paizo doesn't restrict its employees from writing for other companies, as long as that writing is done on a freelance basis and isn't done on company time or with company resources. Which is totally fair, really.I've heard that WotC no longer lets its employees do freelance for other companies without getting permission from a manager first. Which totally makes sense for WotC, really.
Straightforward enough, but where it wouldn't make any sense is to arbitrarily cut out all freelancers, especially given how many highly talented aren't full-time employees of WotC. Is it a writer-only thing where copyright and IP are a bit fuzzier? What about artists?
Why? A policy not to hire freelancers that are full time employees of competing companies makes sense to me.Wow,
This is just_Lame_on the part of WOTC.
It's actually not even about this. It's about the GSL not being worked out. Supposedly, once the GSL issue is resolved (one way or the other) WotC will go back to using writers working for other companies. I sure hope they do. I'd miss working on Eberron.
Speaking of Gleemax, I was disappointed to find out the name is based on a MtG Card.. I always thought it was slang for blotter acid.
Strictly speaking, it's not named after the card. Apparently, it has been a longstanding joke that Wizards R&D is controlled by a brain in a jar named Gleemax. The Unhinged card was based on that joke, so is the Forums name.