James Jacobs offered questions and entertained ideas over a cup of tea with us last night.
One person, whose name I innocently can not recall, asked:
"Could we get a list of Prestige Classes that apply to Golarion?"
I nearly fell out of my chair when James replied, "Oh, is that something that people are interested in seeing?"
Not that I think Prestige Classes are the be all and end all, but my players ask about them certainly. Also part of seeing the new diety write-ups is because the Spherewalkers were so darned cool.
Let's show Dr. J that people are interested! Maybe we won't get original ones until new books come out, but maybe we can get insight into what ones that exist now meet the "Golarion Approved" standard.
I know all of my characters have voiced interest in any setting-specific and also AP specific prestige classes.
Some of the inquiries have consisted of:
Wizards with Sin specific themes.
Devil Binder
Hell Knights
Shoanti Tribal classes or variants of one class.
Agreed! Prestige Classes FTW!
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Of course it would be something people would be interesting in.
Here's the thing, Prestige classes are a GREAT way to distinguish organizations or characters from a certain "school of thought" from others.
For example..
Red Wizards of Thay
Warwizards of Cormyr
Knights of Silver (Silver March)
Thee prestige classes set their base classes apart from the normal classes. Gives an example of why X character would join X group and the powers and benefits they gain from it.
There are other prestige classes...
Archmage
Assassins
And others are examples of excellent next step prestige classes or enhancing them above and beyond regular base classes.
Sounds like a blog post to me.
Agreed!
I do enjoy how Prestige classes can turn vanilla into a curry omelette with cilantro garnish. It's another way one Fighter can be different from another. I personally assumed that Pathfinders would be dishing out Pr classes each time they include the diety. I had no idea that the Spherewalkers were a fluke. I'd like to add my voice to Pr class support . . .
. . . but with the caveat regarding how joining organizations requiring a Pr class to gain entry.
If Fighters, Clerics, and Paladins could be Hellknights, for example, would a new "Hellknight Prestige Class" manage to combine these sometimes disparate elements into a cohesive class alternative? It's one thing to just have a requisite for joining, some sort of initiation ceremony, and now you get a spear and a horse, but now a Prestige Class has to offer what would be sacrificed for not getting class levels in something else.
When playing a Psion for the CotCT, I plan on eventually getting the Uncarnate PR class, and I may have my Monk become a Fist unless something more interesting pops up.
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"Could we get a list of Prestige Classes that apply to Golarion?"
, "Oh, is that something that people are interested in seeing?"
Actually what I asked is could we get an informal list of established Prestige Classes that meet the feel of Golarion?
Mr Jacobs replied that this was not something that had occured to him at that time, but didnt say that this was not something that he coudlnt do, or did not want to. Just they were working on so many other things and that since there are so many out there they didnt see making a lot of extra classes, when there are so many already out there. (which is from an earlier quote actually)
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I've been working on a couple takes on a 'sincaster' prestige class, personally. No specific sin-themed, but as a general thing, using the power of the seven runes associated with the Runelords and their relevant Sins. Both involve sacrificing prepared spells/available spell slots to evoke sin-specific effects...
My players asked about this as well.
One is going to take the Sphere Walker path.
Another is going to try a Blade Singer, though I'm not really sure how it fits. The elf is a Forlorn. I'm going to let him find information about Blade Singers in a library, perhaps the academy in Sandpoint.
The other is going to take the Suel Arcanamach PrC. I thought this one fit in well as an organization that existed at the time of the Rune Lords. It dies off when the Rune Lords did. Somewhere along the line, the PCs will find a book in the empire's dead language. Once they decipher it, the ranger can pursue that class if he choses.
A list of other PrCs that would fit would be welcome.
I too would like to hear more speak of Prestige Classes...
Actually what I asked is could we get an informal list of established Prestige Classes that meet the feel of Golarion?
Mr Jacobs replied that this was not something that had occured to him at that time, but didnt say that this was not something that he coudlnt do, or did not want to. Just they were working on so many other things and that since there are so many out there they didnt see making a lot of extra classes, when there are so many already out there. (which is from an earlier quote actually)
That's right.
I thought I paraphrased you well enough though, CJ. From memory.
An informal list of established prestige classes then. :D
Me and my group would love them to make an entire book of prestige classes from Golerian
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My players have been asking me tons of questions about what prestige classes to take in the game. I've just kept it very simple: if it's not in the SRD or a Paizo-published Golarion product then it is not allowed. Now I have had quite a few grumblings from some of my more gung-ho players, but in general I've found that it is working well. Now if Paizo wants to release some setting-specific prestige classes, then I gladly welcome them.
My players have been asking me tons of questions about what prestige classes to take in the game. I've just kept it very simple: if it's not in the SRD or a Paizo-published Golarion product then it is not allowed. Now I have had quite a few grumblings from some of my more gung-ho players, but in general I've found that it is working well. Now if Paizo wants to release some setting-specific prestige classes, then I gladly welcome them.
Despite the fact that I started this thread, I'm pretty much of the same mind as Finerion here. But that's also why I started the thread. :D
My players pester me about Prestige classes too and I've been dubvious.
Hence the interest in an existing Prestige Class that James and Co. would consider setting specific.
(And when they have the time and means, making them up is always cool too. Acknowledging the need to prioritize)
Hi all
I have a view about prestige classes in general they dont work.
As flavour they are ok however they often dilute the character.
Hear is why?
If you are a spell user most hold you back and at higher levels the problem becomes more obvious because your highest level spell isnt as good as the bad guys.
This problem grows if you are the main spell user.
In principal they should be something characters should want to espire to however they rarely work.
There are some exceptions because i feel that fighters types can switch to other fighter classes fairly easily and skip a beat in most instances. The same gos for rogue types. However try to put caster levels in and well it is never as good as a straight class charcter.
People can argue about the roleplay oppotunities however the amount of character deaths speaks volumes to me.
My experienced players (25years) dont currently touch them or even talk about them.
I really do believe that they need to be something special and have something that makes them unique.
Just a few thoughts.
In our group its the complete oppiste the characters who dont Prestige Class seem to be the weeker memebers of our party, As for spell casters just make sure you take a class that is plus 1 caster at every level and you wont have that problem
We allow any prestige classes from WOC and any that us as a group aproves of
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If you are a spell user most hold you back and at higher levels the problem becomes more obvious because your highest level spell isnt as good as the bad guys.
While this may be true for prestige classes designed with martial and casting abilities, it's not true for the prestige classes that give you a +1 caster level every level.
Besides, martial/caster prestige classes are usually just that, martial and people shouldn't be trying to rely on offensive magic, that's why they have a sword.
A list of "useable" Prestige Classes would be very much appreciated!
Creative Director
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Alas, having thought on this a little more... the reason we HAVEN'T done something like this is that there are very few WotC prestige classes out there that are open content and thus that we can really talk about officially. And there's even more out there in the d20 market, but I'm nowhere near familiar enough with the bulk of them to know which ones would be good fits for Golarion. So alas... a suggested prestige class list will have to go on the back burner now...
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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... there are very few WotC prestige classes out there that are open content and thus that we can really talk about officially. ...so a suggested prestige class list will have to go on the back burner now...
Or somewhere unofficial, like a messageboard where non-Paizo employees can post suggestions.
--
It strikes me, though, that one issue is the quirky nature of each campaign. Order of the Bow Initiates or Tattooed Monks may work fine in my Golarion campaign, but you may think them broken or otherwise unattractive for yours.
It might make more sense for us to find good, existing (OGL or not) Prestige Classes and explain how we'd adapt them to our campaigns. they might be someone else's cup of tea, or not.
Yeah forget predone ones, I can figure out which are a good fit in Golarion...but I voice my support for having 1 every 2 issues or so to help--my ranger is already pursuing spherewalker as a result!
Alas, having thought on this a little more... the reason we HAVEN'T done something like this is that there are very few WotC prestige classes out there that are open content and thus that we can really talk about officially. And there's even more out there in the d20 market, but I'm nowhere near familiar enough with the bulk of them to know which ones would be good fits for Golarion. So alas... a suggested prestige class list will have to go on the back burner now...
Fair enough James, thanks for sparing it some thought anyway.
It might make more sense for us to find good, existing (OGL or not) Prestige Classes and explain how we'd adapt them to our campaigns. they might be someone else's cup of tea, or not.
That's a good idea Chris.
Have people nominate one, but ask that they justify or rationalize it a little. Not to put them on the spot, but to show why they think it's a good Golarion fit.
In the game I'm running only one of the PCs will be delving into a PrC (Our factotum will begin taking chameleon at 6th level), so it's not big issue for me from a DM-to-PC standpoint.
However, certain PrCs add tangible detail to the campaign world they're placed in. Look at the Crimson Mage of They (Can't say it, WotC Ninjas will get me); Looking over this PrC tells me that somewhere in the world there is a very not nice country whose leaders can fireball the ever-living crud out of me. That's something that you can hook a campaign on. The spherewalker is another great example of adding flavor to the setting, not another overpowered munchikin class. So no to more berserking frenzy classes and yes to tasty-tasty flavor enhancing ones.
James Jacobs! As a follow up idea.. how about this?
Instead of a bunch of prestige classes, how about more cool feats?
Here's an example:
But then the player gets excited and says, "Is there one available for my god? That would be so cool!"
Maybe those sorts of feats would offset the demand for Prestige Classes?
Instead of waiting for Paizo to do the work for us, why don't we start reviewing the PrCs that already exist and just adjust for Pathfinder flavor?
For example, based on finerion's comment above, I think the SRD PrCs can probably be adjusted as follows:
The other PrCs can probably remain as is, though the Archmage, Hierophant, and Horizon Walker probably won't see much play.
- Loremaster - access to the Knowledge domain can substitute for one of the Feat prereqs
- Mystic Theurge - often sponsored by the church of Nethys
- Shadowdancer - Race: Varisian instead of Combat Reflexes
- Thaumaturgist - aka Chelish Devil Binder
Good idea Alex..If I don't particpate it's because I'm a 3.5 noob (hence the pestering of Paizo), but I would welcome this if anyone wants to join you.
*nods vigorously*
So if I finish working on and post the sincaster thing I mentioned, are people willing to do some constructive critiquing to get it balanced-and-functional?
You got it!
Are there plans for some original classes (not prestige) in future Pathfinders?
BLOATMAGE!
Are there plans for some original classes (not prestige) in future Pathfinders?
Malfeshnekor's lil' lackeys! :P
Some more region and race specific feats would be awesome.
Seconded! But also I like the idea of more feats like Lamashtus Mark.
Those would be cool!
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Yup. Although we'll probably not go crazy with them until we all finally decide here at Paizo if we're switching to 4th or staying 3.5.
Just please don't create classes for the sake of creating classes or because X class isn't good enough.. stat-wise or role-wise. So many base classes have popped up over the last 2 years and some of them are just terrible or would have worked much better as prestige classes. I don't want to see Paizo go down the road of filling books with junk we don't REALLY need.
Just please don't create classes for the sake of creating classes or because X class isn't good enough.. stat-wise or role-wise. So many base classes have popped up over the last 2 years and some of them are just terrible or would have worked much better as prestige classes. I don't want to see Paizo go down the road of filling books with junk we don't REALLY need.
Here. Here.
I trust Paizo to create prestige classes in the vein they were originally intended . . .not splatbook material, but characters that enhance organizations or facets of a campaign world.
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and hard to achieve, needing some sort of entering ceremony to get into.
I just cant immagine someone, when wakes up, discovering the ability to manipulate someone else's blood. ¬¬
Yes please; I'd much prefer ceremony-type entry requirements and RP requirements over spurious feat/skill combos (especially when it's something stupid like Primeval's 'Toughness' and Kensei/Knight Protector requiring Diplomacy just to screw fighters/knights from joining a PrC that'd be very good for them)
Prestige classes should be prestigious. ;)
Amen.
I concur with the majority of the posters in this thread. I would like to see:
*More Feats (Regional or otherwise) with a Pathfinder spin in mind
*Prestige classes that are made for this setting.
I'm not a big fan of prestige classes because many seem to be built around a single 'trick' as it were. Also as said prestige classes should be 'Prestigous'. The Prestige classes in the DMG are a solid example of how NOT to be a one-trick pony Class.
Though not on point with this thread but in a manner it is, (in the what I'd like to see in Pathfinder) A sidetrek adventure now and then to help lead in to some of the gamemaster material especially when dealing with regions.
So to sum up, more feats, quality prestige classes and a Sidetrek now and again... Oh and James writing a demonomicon-like series of articles on OGl Demon Lords.. but that last is just my wish list for Christmas. :)
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So if I finish working on and post the sincaster thing I mentioned, are people willing to do some constructive critiquing to get it balanced-and-functional?You got it!
Watcher, and anyone else interested in helping me with this PrC I mentioned: please send me an email at kassil @ gmail . com, preferably with some kind of subject relating to it.
Thanks.