Mostly B) with a healthy dose of C)... no wait that is my daily vitamin regimen...
*weak grin*
I am awaiting further news of 4th with what's the phrase... "cautious optimism"
Which is not to say I am not a little irked by having it sprung on me the way I feel it was.
-S
Thanks for the feedback, all.
I didn't make this a poll because I want to know a lot more than just which of the options you're leaning toward. The WHY at this point is as important to me as the WHAT.
--Erik
So did the results come out as you expected?
What's your take?
If you weren't a publisher, how would you be leaning?
So, given what you know so far, you plan to: _______________.
I plan to convert, though not until my current Ptolus campaign is finished, so it maybe a few months after 4e is released, but the next campaign will be 4e.
(B) with minor qualifications.
I'm perfectly happy with 3.5--sure it has some flaws, but once you have a handle on the rules, they aren't that complex. Well, at least I can't imagine playing D&D without having to look up monsters, spells, etc. during the course of play if you've made it beyond orcs and magic missiles.
I've got enough 3.5 material to last me for at least 5 years of DMing, and a homebrew campaign that could be converted, but I've created a lot of 3rd ed. crunch for over the years. Since I mostly use this to play with my son, and we won't be wrapping up the current campaign any time soon, I imagine that I'll keep playing 3.5 for many years. Owned but not played yet: Shackled City, New Castle Greyhawk book, 4 years worth of Dungeon adventures. Subscribed: Pathfinder 1 and 2 (or more, depending on Paizo's conversion plans). Owned but not completed: Age of Worms (halfway through), Savage Tide (ran two adventures but had to move), Red Hand of Doom (20% complete in PbP, estimated completion date is Summer 2009).
I don't feel that 3.5 has at all exhausted its possibilities for me as a DM or a player. Just with the Complete series, there are all kinds of cool character concepts out there waiting to be played, and I've only begun to explore them. I just got the Tome of Magic, which has some really cool stuff in it. If I wanted to get rid of Vancian spellcasting, I could just ban wizards, clerics, and druids and run the alternate divine/arcane caster classes--although I for one find the Vancian system to be a fun strategy challenge rather than a millstone. And I don't even have that large of a 3.5 library--it may well grow if the predicted bargain barrel boom of obsolescent sourcebooks happens and I can pick up used stuff cheaply.
There is no clear indication that my favorite published campaign world, Greyhawk, will be supported in 4e. There are some clear indications that some hallowed traditions that are at least partly tied to the Greyhawk cosmos are going to be thrown out the window, something I don't see as necessary or welcome. I'm starting to warm up to the Pathfinder/Golarion world--it may run a close second to Greyhawk as I see more of it. If Paizo decides to stick to 3.5, it will make it easier for me to stick to (B), and if Paizo moves to 4e it may nudge me in the direction of shifting. Or not.
I don't see the point of converting 3.5 published material to 4e. Way too much work, unless the people you DM for insist on 4e. If that happens, they can DM, and I'll buy the 4e PH and play. So that's my qualification. In all likelihood I'll be moving to yet another new place by the time 4e comes out, and it may be that I have to play 4e if I want to game. If that happens, I'll try it out--I'm not hostile to the idea of improving the game, and my son gives Starwars Saga a thumbs up, so maybe it'll be OK. But between the piss-poor marketing job, lack of customer support, and the fact that I'm so heavily invested in 3.5 already (money and memory space in my brain), I won't be an eager or enthusiastic convert.
A) Convert! I am ready for a new D&D.
Obviously, to convert or not to convert is a personal decision (that is seemingly driven by investment, according to the responses on this thread). I own the core three, plus 4 other complimentary books - a minimal investment compared to many others.
As a DM, I'm tired of 3.5. Rule components have been added without the full understanding of what implications might arise at the table with each new splat book. Each new book introduces a host of unbalanced player options that stoke the arm's race, and complicate the game causing a single combat to last an entire gaming session.
As a player, I find the system (based on the foundations of D&D) too restrictive. I call D&D the "You can't do that" game; why can't a Paladin know how to swim? Why should it be cross-class? Why should there be a cross-class?
I was about ready to dump all 3.5 material and investigate using a new system such as Iron Heroes (I prefer a grittier feel), or even dust off the old Powers & Perils system, until WotC announced 4.0. To me, its a clean slate. I can review the system, change anything, everything, or nothing, and make all splat books and prestige classes off-limits (until they are made available). Then I can begin a new campaign. Truth be told, I can tell the same story with 3.5 as I can with 4.0, or even the d6 system. The difference is how much work I am willing to commit to fine-tuning the game to make it the game I want. With 3.5, the work is significant.
C with some definite D tendencies. The main reason that I run a 3.5 campaign now is the wealth of resources out there and the limited time that I have to devote to it. That plus it has been a lot easier to find players for 3.5 than most other games. If all those resources (e.g., Pathfinder) and players move to 4e and I don't find it to be any "worse" than 3.5, then I'll likely make the move. I'll do the same if 4e is, in my opinion of course, better to run than 3.5.
On the other hand, if there are various conversions made available for some of the better campaign material out there, I may shift away from both 4e and 3.5 with my current gaming group and give something else a try (e.g., True20 with the planned Pathfinder conversions mentioned elsewhere).
I started as C, but turns out that the entirety of the information I needed was the names of the lead developers. Now I'm squarely in A.
I mean, it looks like they're getting rid of the (extraordinarily dysfunctional) spell schools! If that's not a sign of Good Change, I don't know what is.
They've even said that there's nothing wrong with the way that 3.5 works, in their own podcasts!
There's nothing wrong with an NES, either. Just because something works fine doesn't mean there's no room for improvement.
I played most of my games for many years with GURPS 3, but got sick of the change to GURPS 4 (the new rules are very good, the old one were good too, but I now "have" to buy all that same material again ... any coincidence here? any wonder, why GURPS 4 isn't selling so well?)
I wasn't aware GURPS 3e sold well either. Remember, quality of product doesn't translate into sales.
I have a friend who maintains that you <i>can't</i> fix D&D, because shoddy mechanics are an integral part of the D&D experience; if you fix all the problems with D&D, it's not D&D anymore. I've always hoped to god he was wrong, but the tone of some of these replies make me wonder if maybe he was right.
I'm with option B: Sticking with 3.5
AND
option D: Other. I also play HARP from ICE. Neither I, nor my players, are anywhere near ready to convert to 4E. If it comes down to choosing an edition, we'll toss it for HARP or Rolemaster.
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I'm between the B and C categories. I've got a lot of time and money invested into the 3.0/3.5 systems. Also, it sounds like they're changing the flavor of the game, not just the settings but all the behind the scenes stuff as well. I understand that Paizo will go where the players are, and if the majority are using the 4.0 system they'll publish things for the 4.0 system. The only thing I ask is that you include conversion stats for those of us that may not switch over, most likely as a PDF (this goes for the 4.0 system as well if you stick with 3.5).
Although from what I hear, it may be very difficult/impossible to convert from one to the other. I hope that's not true, it sounds like an excuse to force people to buy all the same source books again, just as 4.0 this time.
Given what you know so far, are you planning to:
A) Convert! I am ready for a new D&D.
B) 3.5 or Bust! I'm sticking with the man what brought me.
C) We'll see. Need more information.
D) Other.
Please pick one. Feel free to elaborate, but please stick to one reply each for this thread. I'm not interested in fights or refutations of incorrect points or baiting or whatever.
I want to know how you, at this moment in time, feel about the idea of converting to a new edition of the game.
I choose:
C) We'll see. Need more information.I don't understand how some people have already flat out decided they are going to switch to 4e. I have no idea if it is going to improve on 3.5 or completely suck. I'm pretty happy with 3.5. I was slow to change from Basic D&D to Advanced D&D (First Edition), and then I was slow to change from AD&D to Second Edition, but I was pretty much ready and excited about the update to 3.0. If the change from 3.5 to 4e is along the same lines of the change from 2nd to 3.0 (old school play still viable, you just have more options than ever before), then I'm in. If it is all along the lines of Bo9S, then I will be reluctant. I'm not thrilled that they are axing Vancian magic. Like many others, I feel that WOTC's entire handling of the announcement has had a certain "Keystone Cops" feel to it.
I certainly will not change if I have to pay some kind of subscription fee to WOTC. I'm taking a wait and see approach to see how dependent the game is going to be on the WOTC website. I could have handled their failure to renew Paizo's license (for the magazines) if they had plans to still do a print magazine but just wanted to do it "in house." I have no interest in paying money for a "magazine" that just happens to be online. To me that sounds a lot like "charging admission to view our website." But I often look at a computer for hours at a time at work--I'd rather not feel dependent on one to play D&D.
I also feel that WOTC is pretty well out of touch with old school gamers like me. On the other hand, I feel that Paizo pretty much has its fingers on the pulse of what I like. So while I will probably pick up the 4e PHB, the biggest factor for me will be whether Pathfinder and the Gamemastery products make the switch. That'll be the deciding factor.
For now, 4th edition just has too much of a Crystal Pepsi vibe to get me excited.
I'm with C.
I'm pretty happy with 3.5 as is, although there are probably some improvements I could make without too much fuss (like simpler skills and less items). There are others, like the whole magic system, that could definitely do with some improvement. Either way, I'm getting the 4.0 core books.
In the end, it all depends on what we're going to play after I finished Shackled City. It will probably be either
I Planescape (I want to run my group through Faction War) using either 3.5 or Iron Heroes,
II Savage Tide (with a nice tie-in to SCAP, using 3.5
III The pathfinder series that strikes my fancy, using either 3.5 or 4.0
Contributor
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Gotta go with C. I had a quick look at my shelf for 3.5 and realized that I have had very different investments in each edition of the game.
For 2nd Ed, I bought up Race books like there was no tomorrow (I was early to mid teens and the coolest character was defined race or subrace in my mind). Few campaign settings, adventures, etc. Nothing fluffy at all. I still have the core books and Masque of the Red Death.
3rd Ed had me buying Class books. Sword and Fist, et al. Options were the cool thing. I haven't touched any of it since 3.5 came out.
3.5 has seen me sink money only in the corner-case books. Things like Lords of Madness, the Fiendish Codices, Heroes of Horror, stuff that had very little crunch to it. The only "rules" book I bought was Bo9S, which I do love.
I'm leaning towards A, and the change, but I need to see if I like the rules. I have no problem with disposing of my current rulebooks, but if the system is too far from the D&D I know and love, I'll stick with 3.5 (and also be on the discounted book bandwagon).
A, once we have finished the Savage Tide if it's possible to convert Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk to 4e.
Better be, that is one great adventure!
B. 3.5 for the long haul.
I bought into third edition with the purpose of it being the last edition that I purchase. And I have such a mastery over it that I will not be converting. None of my players are interested in fourth edition nor a Digital Initiative. I am the only one that goes online for this kind of thing (And I am a 30 something running the game for 20 somethings and my In-Laws, whom are 16, 18, and 19). So, no 4E for us here...
Joe- Still mourning the loss of Dungeon and Dragon Magazine... :-(
I want to continue with 3.5. While the system has its warts, I still feel like there is a lot I can do with it. Converting to 3.0 for me was as about new possibilities and tiring of more than a decade of 2nd Edition. I'm not tired of 3.5's possibilities yet.
I'm very particular about how I spend my hobby dollars. I generally haven't been impressed with WOTC's recent materials. On the other hand, I've been very pleased with work from third party publishers. I loved picking up Dragon and Dungeon every month. I started reading them again after a long hiatus, beginning around the time of the Age of Worms. I am very impressed with the quality and creativity of the Game Mastery modules and Pathfinder. There is also a wealth of free stuff available on the net.
I'm concerned about what I've heard so far about 4.0's mechanics. It may be too early to judge, but it sounds like their going past simplification and dumbing down the game. I also don't like them redefining the rules and history of their multiverse. That's about marketing to - easier to bring in new customers if they don't have to know all that back-story. Marvel and DC do the same thing.
I'm not against a new edition in and of itself. I like the idea of cleaning up the rules and adding new bits every so often, but it seems too soon to me. I'd rather see more incremental changes like the ones from 3.0 to 3.5 as opposed to a radical revamp.
I'm not interested in WOTC's proposed electronic products. To me D+D is a pen and paper game. Nor am I interested in monthly user fees for something I cannot physically hold. Online content is good (I love Paizo's PDFs), but making that a significant part of the game is bad. I'm also reluctant to learn a radically new system. My free time is at a premium and I feel pretty good up DMing with 3.5. It took me a while to get to that comfort zone (and a few TPKs).
All that being said, I'll keep an open mind and at least check out the new books. My ultimate decision will probably be based on what Paizo and other third party publishers decide to do. Not much fun reading a Pathfinder adventures if I don't understand the rules mechanics.
I don't really know how much market share WOTC really has. My fantasy is that Paizo, Green Ronin, Goodman, etc. form a consortium of 3.5 publishers. Fan boyz wake up and stop buying everything that has the WOTC label. 4E becomes the new New Coke and Paizo reaps the benefits. Probably not a likely scenario, but I can dream.
Sorry for the long rant Eric, but you hit me where it hurts.
Given what you know so far, are you planning to:
A) Convert! I am ready for a new D&D.
B) 3.5 or Bust! I'm sticking with the man what brought me.
C) We'll see. Need more information.
D) Other.
Please pick one. Feel free to elaborate, but please stick to one reply each for this thread. I'm not interested in fights or refutations of incorrect points or baiting or whatever.
I want to know how you, at this moment in time, feel about the idea of converting to a new edition of the game.
I expect that people's answers will change over time. This is not the last time I will ask this question, so we'll have a chance to gauge the issue as we go along.
So, given what you know so far, you plan to: _______________.
B- Other I've played 2nd Edition forever and use 3.5 for family games
No problems in either system that can't be resolved with good role-players and dungeon masters.
Option C for me.
Like many, I'll be picking up the core books to see what they have to offer. On the other hand I have enough material to last several years and I really like 3.5. My players are happy. I'm jaded towards Wizards lately, based on everything they've recently done to the gaming comunity and the level of quality they have been putting out in there splat books lately.
Paizo continues to generate great material and I'm really happy with the direction of Pathfinder. I would say that alot of my decision will be based on what Paizo decides to do, as well as the direction my players want to go.
For now I'm undecided.
J.
Paizo is waiting to see what its customers are going to do. Customers are waiting to see if Paizo converts...
Two men are in a dark room. Each has a flashlight and a pistol..
A!
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D.
I have really enjoyed 3.5 but there are issues. I am apprehensive about 4e but I am willing to take a look.
Honestly, I am really looking into something like OSRIC or C&C for my future campaigns. I enjoy the systems and I want something less rules intensive that still allows me to use all my fun minis and props. I also like the old school feel of those systems with the updated OGL traits I enjoy.
C - I plan on buying the 4th edition Player's Handbook, and Castles and Crusades before making up my mind. I will either switch to Castles and Crusades, Convert to 4th edition (I'm not liking the press releases so far, we'll see if it is an improvement or not), or stick with 3.5.
Given what you know so far, are you planning to:
A) Convert! I am ready for a new D&D.
B) 3.5 or Bust! I'm sticking with the man what brought me.
C) We'll see. Need more information.
D) Other.
Please pick one. Feel free to elaborate, but please stick to one reply each for this thread. I'm not interested in fights or refutations of incorrect points or baiting or whatever.
I want to know how you, at this moment in time, feel about the idea of converting to a new edition of the game.
I expect that people's answers will change over time. This is not the last time I will ask this question, so we'll have a chance to gauge the issue as we go along.
So, given what you know so far, you plan to: _______________.
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B right now. I'll certainly look at the new ruleset however.
The people I play with are not ready for 4e (and several of them were RPGA/Living Greyhawk stalwarts).
There is a general feeling of mistrust and a lack of faith in WotC amongst our group. We feel they have lost their way, and no longer represent the D&D we grew up playing (many of us with 1e).
The 'disposable campaigns' philosphy, expressed by the 'start a new game' attitude of the designers (with no initial intent to publish a conversion guide), and the accellerated XP are the kind of things that distress our sensibilities, and make us feel this game is being designed without reverence for the grand history of the game. I also find the so called 'fluff' changes distressing for the same reasons.
In addition, we're concerned by the lack of playtesting, and the fact that so much is 'in flux' at this late stage when the books need to go to print soon.
Personally, I have low expectations of 4e based on the disasterous PR campaign and communications strategy exhibited to date for the new edition. As my wife would say (quoting Dr. Phil), "Past behaviour is the best indicator of future behaviour)." I must admit I feel that way... and judging on the business decisions of the past six months I've lost almost all confidence in these guys.
Now if Paizo were to put a new edition - that I could get behind. I trust the Paizo team's design skill, their respect for the game, it's history and cosmology. Quite frankly, Paizo gives me the kind of products WotC no longer produces - things that get me excited about D&D.
Could you make 4e?
This is a tough one, but I'll pick (C). It's a little early in the game for me to make that informed a decision, and I'm not adamantly in the (A) or (B) camps.
My indecision is based partly on what I know so far about 4th ed. I'm most open to what they'll do w/ mechanics changes (crunch), but very uncomfortable w/ what they might be doing w/ well-established flavor (fluff). So I'm torn there.
As for the "I've spent X amount of dollars/I have enough 3.5 to last a lifetime" arguments, I could easily fit in this group. In fact, an educated guess is that I might convert but it won't be for a year or two later in the process. I'd genuinely like to play as much of my 3.5 material as possible so I don't feel like either I "wasted" the money or I have to try a painful conversion process (from what Wizards has intimated).
I'm not even sure I'll "pick up the core 3" when they come out, b/c I'm pretty sure even if I convert, it won't be a quick process.
Another factor is the Paizo factor. I will likely purchase Paizo products regardless. That will sound stupid to some, but I value this company and the work they do. If they switch to 4th, I'm sure I'll play the stuff--just later in the grand scheme of things. I'm a little sad that regardless of what Paizo does, some people will likely leave this small community behind b/c they're firmly in the A or B camps.
A last deciding factor will be the online aspect of 4th ed. If too much is predicated on their need for us to be a monthly fixed revenue stream (e.g., the print materials are just the warm-ups or appetizers for what they really want to push), then you can kiss my money goodbye. I spend all day looking at pdfs and multiple PC screens to want to come home and do it in my free time.
And I might never forgive them for killing the print versions of Dungeon & Dragon. This would never be a deciding factor in my future choice, but it will have a voice.
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So, given what you know so far, you plan to: _______________.B, most likely. It's not that I am against a 4th edition, but what I have heard so far doesn't really trip my trigger. It seems that, even though Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk is awesome, Wotc is planning to cut out Greyhawk even more than they already have. I don't care for that too much.
Also, my group has multiple campaigns planned out and already written in 3.5. By the time we get through all of them, 5th edition should be out.
Also, I should also point out that the primary reason why I switched from 3.0 to 3.5 was because of Dungeon magazine. The switch was necessary to stay current with the stat blocks. Now, there is no Dungeon magazine. No Dungeon = no reason to switch.
A) Convert. Although, I may wait to finish playing the various APs that I haven't even touched, which could take a couple years. But I'll be buying 4E right away and if it is really good, see what I can do to convert past APs. Or just use newer APs assuming Pathfinder converts too.
C) I need more information.
So far, what WotC has shown us has potential, but looks really poorly executed. I do hope they get the rough edges sanded off before the release. And I hope it's a good product.
I feel it's likely enevitable that I will go to 4.0 unless it's the worst thing I've ever seen, but how long it takes depends on how well it relates to the 3.5 I know and love. I'm gonna miss Vancian magic for one thing.
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D) Other
Yes, I will be purchasing 4th Edition. But it will be some time (years) before we have the wealth of options that are currently available in 3.5 Edition. Therefore, I suspect I'll be playing both Editions, depending on the campaign setting we'll be playing that night.
WotC themselves have claimed that there isn't anything inherently broken with 3.5 Edition - we've been happily playing it for the last several years, and many will continue to do so, at least while there is continued support and fresh product published by third-party d20 publishers.
And there is the point. WotC won't be publishing any 3.5 Edition product in the future, and I suspect most d20 publishers will also jump onto the 4th Edition bandwagon. This would leave a growing opportunity for an enterprising publisher to step in to fill the void.
3.5 and 4th Editions will both be D&D, yet they will be clearly different games. I feel there may be a welcome market for continued 3.5 Edition support for some time to come - pick up where WotC left off - not just adventure releases, and not quirky offshoots of the d20 sytem (Arcana Unearthed, Castles & Crusades, True20 etc) but quality race, class and monster books (demonomicon?) etc. that remain true to Core 3.5 D20 rules.
Instead of killing off 3.5 Edition, a company with a proven track record and trusted reputation within the game community could keep it thriving, a viable alternative and competitor to 4th Edition. Hmmm ... I wonder which company could possibly be positioned step into such a role?
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B) 3.5 or Bust! I'm sticking with the man what brought me.
My group just started Savage Tide. We still have Age of Worms, Shackled City, Rise of the Runelords, then Curse of the Crimson Throne. That's easily enough campaign material for 5-7 years.
I would imagine we'll switch whenever we run out of material to play. Seeing as how we're all married with families now, that will probably happen when the AP's are done. We'll worry about upgrading then...
-Skeld
I am ready for the next edition and am excited to see how the mechanics have been streamlined. I feel like WotC are bungling their marketing and are making serious missteps which are making gamers anxious instead of eager, and that once the new edition is out, many will see it as an inspired step forward for the hobby. Until then, it is terrible to see how awful the press is on this one and how misguided the attempts to drum up interest are.
Bring it on. I am ready for a jet of fresh air. Just put a competent spokesperson in charge.
Paizo has handled Pathfinder beautifully. Can't some of you explain to the fine folk over at 4 ed design that they are opening themselves to attacks of opportunity and are flat footed in the surprise round.
I'm going to have to go with option A!
I have to agree with Taliesin Hoyle on this one. I too feel like the WotC peeps are Zero Charisma on the marketing of 4e, but everything that I have heard so far (mechanically anyway) has me pretty excited. Sure there are some major changes, but I think that it's hard to argue that D3D could use some streamlining (it gets a little ridiculous when every little item; doors, potions, wands, walls, etc, each have a SET of stats that need to be dealt with). Many of the flavor changes are debatable, but I think they are at least being well thought out. Succubi being revamped into devils makes some sense, even if it does rub me the wrong way (no pun intended) on a sacred cow level.
Even the recent article on "Wizard's Implements" is interesting to me in the sense of "getting back to our roots!" Sure it appears that they are making wands, staves, and other devices more like those used by Gandalf and Harry Potter, but maybe, just maybe it will lead to a more natural use of these items (does anyone else feel that it is odd that a wizard can't make any real use of a magic staff prior to like 12th level?). It most definitely will be easier to keep the paper work on a +2 Wand than the current system of Crafter's Caster Level and Current Charges.
As a DM I am really hoping for a revamp of the Skill system as well. It is the one thing that bogs down and confuses NPC creation. With its racial bonuses, varied skill points by class, synergies, armor penalties, class rank maxes, cross class maxes - I mean if upping your CON score grants retroactive hit points, shouldn't upping your INT grant retroactive skillpoints? >>>Shakes Magic Eight Ball<<< My sources say "yes", but who ever bothers to mess with it? Another thing is the vague line between skills like Hide and Move Silently, Spot and Listen, Balance and Tumble. Time to clean it up...!!!
Don't get me wrong, I love 3rd edition D3D. I do. I just think that 4e, although different on some levels (mechanical and flavor), will do what 3rd edition did before it (revolutionize the system)! It's going to Rock! it's going to Roll! The Harry Potter "wand battles" will be awesome, and the converted 4e Age of Worms (once I get around to it), will be just as awesome as ever!!!
So yeah, Option A!
A. I despise order and stability and embrace change for it's own sake.
Just kidding. I'd be quite happy to play 3x or even 1 or 2E, I don't care. It's all D&D. It's just that some of the things specifically being mentioned for 4E (loss of dead levels, weapons based talent trees for fighters) just happen to be things my group likes the sound of. So we'll change, and change back if we don't like it. I fail to see the big drama.
Plus I'm a D&D guy, and have been since I was 10 years old. How could I not buy at least the core books of a new edition? It's a big part of my identity and I love it.
B and D.
I might check out edition 4.5 or 5, don't care for 4.0.
Yes, dropping gnomes is a biiiiig minus as far as I am concerned (having uttered declaration that I am ready to play any RPG which allows gnomes and leprechauns as player characters). Otherwise what I have heard from 4th edition has been quite "meh".
I think C) is the only factually correct answer at this time - we just don't have enough concrete info about the new system. I think, however, that unless the WotC team blunders spectacularly we'll end up at 4e before too long.
For a bunch of people who have been playing since AD&D 1e in junior high, we're pretty unsentimental about the ruleset - we abandoned the game in the late eighties for greener pastures with no regrets and skipped 2e entirely. In the late 90s, we found ourselves without a campaign for a couple of years, and so decided to play a first edition AD&D game, running through the original Temple of Elemental Evil. The system was as bad as we remembered, and the allure of kitsch and nostalgia would have worn off and we would have quit if 3e hadn't arrived and turned D&D into something that, if not the greatest system around, was at least fairly playable.
Given that our group to the last player despises the default Vancian magic system (our Age of Worms campaign has a beguiler, a binder, and a dragon shaman; before that was PsiGame, in which the only arcane casters were the NPC enemies), the changes we're hearing about so far sound pretty good to us. And the flavor text is in the end whatever you make of it. The pressure to play other systems has been building - we've taken some Paranoia breaks, and one of our players has been talking about starting up a Dark Ages Europe campaign using the WFRP 2nd edition rules. So in our event, 4e may be just what is needed to keep us in the D&D fold while scratching our New System itch.
Just, you know, so long as the New System doesn't completely suck.
A) Convert! I am ready for a new D&D.
B) 3.5 or Bust! I'm sticking with the man what brought me.
C) We'll see. Need more information.
Well, it would have to be A, B, and a bit of C for me. I like some of the stuff I've heard about the new edition, and other things I'm not so keen on. On the other hand I'm currently preparing to run Savage Tide, and I won't be converting anything mid-campaign. When I'm done with that the new edition will have been out for a couple of years and at that point I will probably use the current (at that point) edition of the game, even if I decide to run a 3.5 campaign like Rise of the Runelords.
Also, a deciding factor for me is what direction my software support is going. At the moment I'm using DM Genie and is quite happy with that. If there's no available software support to handle stuff like combat and the like (unlikely though) I will probably wait until it's available.
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Given what you know so far, are you planning to:
A) Convert! I am ready for a new D&D.
B) 3.5 or Bust! I'm sticking with the man what brought me.
C) We'll see. Need more information.
D) Other.
Short answer (for your convenience ;)
B) 3.5 or Bust!Long answer
Well, presently I am in the mood of saying "B) 3.5 or Bust!". First because I didn't like how WotC was announcing things without telling us anything, and because I don't trust in them making D&D better through another edition. I fear it comes more and more to miniatures only and the kind of things they request from authors seem to exploit more combat orientated than focusing on roleplaying and cool stories.
I'll surely buy the Players Handbook to see what it's all about (and probably the DMG and MM as well, if writing stuff will become an option). But I definiately will play the following years 3.5 as we (my players and I) now got used to the rules and feel comfortable, and none of us wants to buy new books again. I just don't want to put away with all the stuff I have. And when I think of how bad the first printings of WotC products had been in the past, we all should normally wait until the second printing is available or else we have to change so much stuff in the Core Books, that it would suck again...
My fear is: 4E will become nothing more like combat after combat and mini-heavy, trying to attract younger players with this new encounter format. Don't get me wrong, nothing's wrong in attracting new players, but I am sure D&D will become something totally different...
Oh, and one more thing: As we (my group) are mostly married and have kids, I doubt we'll find the time to convert to new rules! And I am sure that most of the core-players (which is where the money lies) are busy with family and business issues as well and that converting will not be an easy decission for us...
Given what you know so far, are you planning to:
A) Convert! I am ready for a new D&D.
B) 3.5 or Bust! I'm sticking with the man what brought me.
C) We'll see. Need more information.
D) Other.
Well, it will probably D for me. At present, I wait for more information, so C. But in the long run, I will probably buy at least the core books for 4e, out of tradition. If I ever come around to play 4e is another thing entirely. I have so much stuff for 3/3.5 (Three APs, first Pathfinder, lots of Dungeon Mags, Red Hand of Doom, etc...) that it would last me for the next 10 years or so. Not to mention loads of 1e/2e stuff... But I will give it a try at least. But I´m planning to wait for the Essen Spielemesse 2008 or a similar occasion for buying the books .
Stefan
C) We'll see. Need more information.
C, without a doubt. We only have a tiny fraction of the information necessary to make a decision like this.
My group is still in the early stages of the Age of Worms adventure path, and I expect we'll play that out using 3.5 rules. During that period, I'll be keeping abreast of the 4E info that comes out, and probably buying the core rulebooks. Then I'll be ready to decide what rules to use for my next campaign.
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Given what you know so far, are you planning to:
B) 3.5 or Bust! I'm sticking with the man what brought me.
So, given what you know so far, you plan to: _______________.
I plan to stick with 3.5. I only started playing DND a little over a year ago and at that time made the switch from AD&D 2nd edition to 3.5. I have a campaign running that will last for at least another year (since we only play about once a month) and then I have Rise of the Runelords and Crimson Throne (and all the other APs) to go through. Who knows what other stuff I come across after that (most likely that will be 3.5 GameMastery stuff that Paizo brings out).
After that I'll probably pick up 5th edition.
Plus, though I like to have my own laptop at the table when we play (I DM). It would be ridiculous to expect all the players to do the same. In addition I don't like paying a monthly fee for something like DND Insider. Thus plenty of reasons for me not to convert to 4.0.
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I've got to go with B.
I like the system and don't feel it's played out yet. Are there areas that need improvement? Sure, but faster and streamlined play aren't going to hook me on an entire new edition. And honestly I don't like many of the changes to the games structure that I'm seeing so far for 4th ed. My group has plenty of material that we still want to delve into that are 3.5 (STAP, RotRL, Greyhawk Ruins, etc). It would simply be too much work to convert all that to 4.0
Now, I'll certainly pick up a 4.0 PHB so I can continue RPGA play, but that will probably be about it.
-J
I gotta go with B.
3.5 is a great system, and it sounds like in making things simpler for 4th edition, they are removing options. And I loves me my options.
Option D for me.
I'll be using 3.5 for many years to come, regardless of whether I indulge 4.0 or not. I've spent too much money on my 3.5 books to just dump them and move on, and so far 4.0 doesn't look like it's going to have any 'backwards compatability', so to speak. The same goes for the rest of my group; folks have invested too much time and money into 3.5 to jump on board with the new edition, and none of us really has the money to start buying a whole /new/ set of books anyway. Even I've had to curb my book purchases, to the point I stick to haunting the used books section at my FLGS these days.
That said, I'll be giving 4.0 a shot. I probably won't bother buying anything until all core books are out, though.
A -- I am ready. There are too many feats to keep track of, I've never liked Vancian magic (and I've played from the first little boxed set in the 70s), and prestige classes, I find, are rarely as good as as sticking with a core class. I like the idea of making racial choice more important than at just low levels. Further, the stat blocks for high end encounters are much too cumbersome! I am ready to see things streamlined.
Definitely B. I fold, spindle and mutilate rulesets anyway, so it doesn't matter what edition is currently the new hawtness. And I don't even game that much anymore. I'll probably buy some setting books, but rule books are not for me.
This might be easier to read as a poll, btw.
A- with some qualification. I intend to run Savage Tide for sure, and plan on finishing Age of Worms before I delve too deeply into a new 4th ed. campaign.