Magic Item advice.

[Eldred the Grey]

I have created some personalized/custom magic items for a Mystic Theurge NPC I am using. Since this NPC is important I thought it thematic and a good use of the feats that I created her with. Now on to the items in question.

1st Symrisa's Gloves

Bracers of armour +2, along with cure light wounds 3/day
So the math is 4000 for the +2 AC
5400 for the CLW 3/day
Now here is the tricky part for me since the CLW is 3/day that means we divide its cost by 1.66(5/3=1.66) which gives us a new base cost for the CLW part of 3250.
Now we add these together using the rules that gives us 8875(4000+(3250*1.5)) and we gave it the ability to be used by good characters only that then gives us the new total of 6213(8875-30%).

2nd Symrisa's Torque
+1 Sacred bonus to AC is 2500
Continuous False Life is 20000(2nd*CL5*2000)
Now add together this becomes 23750(20000+(2500*1.5))
Then since these are both defensive powers we can combine them using the similar powers rule so our new total is 22813(20000+(75% of 3750)).
Again Good Characters only gives us now 15970(22813-30%).

I think this is correct but if I messed up somewhere could people tell me where and show me how. Many thanks for any advice and help given.

EtG

[OmniMage]

Quote:

5400 for the CLW 3/day

Could you show the math for CLW? My math says that it should be 1800 gp (1 * 1 * 1800 gp). Then factor in charges per day. My guess is you are using a caster level of 3 instead of 1.

I don't think the higher caster level is worth it. It triples the cost for a +2 increase to damage healed. However, it is rules legal. I'm not going to try to stop you if you still want to make it that way.

Quote:

we gave it the ability to be used by good characters only that then gives us the new total of 6213(8875-30%).

Be careful with that. Its easily abused. Personally, I think that any magic item restrictions based upon alignment or class is more of a security feature than something worth a cost reduction. Those that slay or capture you wouldn't be able to use such items.

I think you shouldn't use that rule. I house rule that such a thing doesn't exist in my games.

Quote:

Then since these are both defensive powers we can combine them using the similar powers rule so our new total is 22813(20000+(75% of 3750)).

I wouldn't use it that way. The listed powers may be both defensive, but that does not make them similar. They are both powers active at the same time. That is different than a magic item with multiple powers, but you can only use one at a time.

Also, the similar powers rule only applies if it is a magic item that doesn't use space on the body. The powers would be multiplied by 2 (for not using space) before it gets the 75% or 50% discount.

[Eldred the Grey]

OmniMage the CLW is Spell Level*Caster Level*1800. So I am having it done at CL 3 so its 1*3*1800=5400. The alignment bit is for thematics it is more for the Torque which can easily be switched for both good/evil using sacred/profane bonus to AC.

The final point you said doesn't realy sync with how I interpreted it since the main ability(False Life) now takes up a slot, any additional powers would be slotless since the slot is already filled. Also it is a pure defensive item, similarity is the protect the wearer from taking actual damage.

Thanks for the feedback though particulary since the alignment restriction is realy only for GM reasons. Although if a player wanted to use the same rule for the item then I can make exceptions dependant on player and reason.

EtG

[OmniMage]

Let me rephrase. If a magic item (slotted) has multiple powers, then the most expensive item is priced as normal, while every other power is priced 50% more.

When I think of multiple similar abilities, I think of staves. They can have multiple spells, but due to the action economy, you can only cast 1 spell per turn.

Actually, I have my doubts over what kind of item this "2nd Symrisa's Torque" is. I don't know what kind of slot is filled by a torque (my google searching is telling me its not an object).

[avr]

Torc is the correct spelling not torque. It'd be a neck slot item.

I agree with Omnimage re: alignment restrictions and discounts for combining items.

I'm not sure how a continuous item would work with the temp HP from false life. Are they regenerated once per day, but remain in place for the whole day?

[Pizza Lord]

For the 2nd Symrisa's Torc, I would also have some problems with continuous temporary hit points.

Probably would be easier to just have a 1/day casting of false life. That would cut the price to 1/5th (4,000 gp) instead of 20,000. That would just require an activation. At 5th level, that's 5 hours of duration which is pretty much most of an adventuring day to be covered.

But I could see also allowing it to just trigger the first time the wearer takes hit point damage each day. Maybe add 1000+ gp to the cost for that. That would basically cover all the important points for when you need the spell's effect. Just have to decide whether the triggering hit comes off the gained temporary hit points or if it only triggers it and they're there for additional damage.

Could also streamline the temp hp gain to be just 10 temporary hit points at activation, At 1d10 +1 per caster level, that's basically 5.5 +5, so rather than rolling, just go with the average and cut out any poor surprises.

[Name Violation]

"Continuous" temp hp wouldn't replenish. Once it's gone it's gone.

It would have to recast the spell to get more temp hp

Also look at the "star medallion"

The free action false life ability basically covers the temp hp thing

[Eldred the Grey]

I was basically aiming for Pizza Lord's suggestion which was a flat 10 temp hitpoints. I had yet to work out how I would have the temp hp regenerate throughout the course of the day. Like possibly 1hp/per hour. I do see your point about the alignment particularly at 30% I thought that 20% would be better or 10% at least.

EtG

[Diego Rossi]

About the discount, see SKR post of 12 years ago: When building an item, you calculate the cost to create it as if it were in the hands of an optimal user. Otherwise it's basically cheating.
The idea is that it changes the buys/sell price, not the crafting price.

Limiting the enemy ability to use looted items shouldn't reduce the cost of making them.

[Belafon]

Diego Rossi wrote:

About the discount, see SKR post of 12 years ago: When building an item, you calculate the cost to create it as if it were in the hands of an optimal user. Otherwise it's basically cheating.

The idea is that it changes the buys/sell price, not the crafting price.

Limiting the enemy ability to use looted items shouldn't reduce the cost of making them.

That is a really good quote. I've tried to make that point several times in the past, and now I have an actual quote from one of the original designers of PF1 to point to.

[willuwontu]

There's also the cursed magic item creation rules that are a bit more explicit.

Quote:

Drawbacks and Requirements: Drawbacks and requirements typically don’t reduce the cost of a cursed item in any way (and might increase it). Since the crafter of an intentionally cursed item is setting these requirements, it is expected that she does so with a particular agenda, such as choosing a requirement that doesn’t affect her very much but would make the item painful for her enemies to use should they steal it, or choosing a requirement that she wants someone to perform anyway and then offering the item as a gift.

[Diego Rossi]

willuwontu wrote:

There's also the cursed magic item creation rules that are a bit more explicit.

Quote:

Drawbacks and Requirements: Drawbacks and requirements typically don’t reduce the cost of a cursed item in any way (and might increase it). Since the crafter of an intentionally cursed item is setting these requirements, it is expected that she does so with a particular agenda, such as choosing a requirement that doesn’t affect her very much but would make the item painful for her enemies to use should they steal it, or choosing a requirement that she wants someone to perform anyway and then offering the item as a gift.

Very useful, thanks. Never noticed it.

[Eldred the Grey]

Thanks for the links all it really helps me think this out, particullarly since this is for an important NPC that may help out. I have given her a higher WBL for an NPC to allow for her to have some custom items.

EtG

[Azothath]

I've done this in home games. Bracers are overpriced (for game balance reasons).
Wizard's Bracers: Mage Armor 1@8 3 charges on cmmd, Cure Light Wounds 1@1 3 changes on cmmd, disadvantage must be wizard class to use (-30%). The math is pretty easy; (1*8*1800*3/5 +1*1*1800*3/5=9720)*.7 =$6804. If you multiply the secondary at +50% and then discount it's =$7182. It is under priced when compared to similar items. It's not quite the same as standard bracers and years ago there's a long thread on it.

Advice:
For a Mystic Theurge (or most casters) spells levels ARE power. Why not start as a wizard(diviner), get a bonded object Amulet of Spell Mastery and backup Aegis of Recovery, Talismans necklace(pick 3), some pearls of power(works for all their spells) 5@1st, 2@2nd 1@3rd, Handy Haversack, Wands(SLWS:Obscuring Mist, SLWS:Shield, Infernal Healing, Longarm, Illusion of Calm, Air Bubble; Blur, Cat's Grace), couple of obsidian daggers, mithral +1 cestus, an Arrow Magnet with a Fortifying Stone in an open weave wicker basket, cracked pearly white spindle $3400(regen 1pt per hour), couple stuffed animals for Blood Sentinel, Four Leafed clover, 4 MW cold iron bear traps, 2 MW heavy crossbows loaded with cold iron bolts treated with silver blanch or ghost salts & stored in HH. See my thread on Items that can save you. Anything the character has feats to craft discount at 50% so Craft Wondrous will really help your Wealth by Level numbers.

[Diego Rossi]

Ultimate Campaign wrote:

Pricing New Items

The correct way to price an item is by comparing its abilities to similar items in the Core Rulebook (see Magic Item Gold Piece Values on page 549 of the Core Rulebook), and only if there are no similar items should you use the pricing formulas to determine an approximate price for the item. If you discover a loophole that allows an item to have an ability for a much lower price than is given for a comparable item in the Core Rulebook, the GM should require using the price of the Core Rulebook item, as that is the standard cost for such an effect. Most of these loopholes stem from trying to get unlimited uses per day of a spell effect from the “command word” or “use activated or continuous” lines of Table 15–29 on page 550 of Core Rulebook.

Bypassing the bracers or armor cost by making an item that cast Armor 3 times a day, each one with an 8 hours duration, is exactly that kind of loophole.

I agree that bracers are somewhat too costly, and lowering the price in a home game isn't too bad, but there is lowering the cost and there is halving it.

When a custom item that gives a +4 armor bonus to AC costs less than the stock item that gives a +3 armor bonus to AC, something is wrong.

Even more problematic, your item casts the spell, so you can apply it to other creatures, so you get more flexibility for a lower cost.

And the item should be priced as slotless, as you can remove it after casting the spell.

[Eldred the Grey]

Most items I try to create, I use already existing items to base them off. This is only really the second time I have tried to either create a true custom item or convert an item from older editions of D&D. This was the case when someone helped me update/upgrade the old Adventures/Knaves/Travelers robes and me trying to create an item similar to but less powerful than this.

[Diego Rossi]

Pricing custom magic items is an art, and what can be perfectly right for a campaign, can be game-breaking for another.

And the guidelines have plenty of holes and contradictions. The discount for crafting items with user limitations is part of the rules, but willuwontu citation is part of the rules too. And SKR post was made by one of the developers.
I prefer to apply the specific user discount only to the sale price of found items, other GM can see that differently.

[Azothath]

Eldred the Grey wrote:

Most items I try to create, I use already existing items to base them off...

There is leeway in spell requirements for an item and what the item actually does, it is not a one to one relationship. Creativity usually breaks the rules in an amusing manner.

Try to keep the base material suitable or the same for items that scale. This is a major problem with several items that makes them difficult to scale up.

1) work the numbers according to the Magic Item Creation rules(MICR). Sometimes it's worth getting each part to be about the same price as additional ability/similar ability rules act on individual powers in a descending price order.

2) based on spell required and/or effect research similar items for price comparisons.
Note: while the writers do a reasonable job there is a notable minority of mispriced items (over and under). RAW price corrections in updates are usually not accurate and are generally punitive(over priced). This makes it a bit more difficult when finding a similar item for comparison. The minority of discounted items are usually classic(old) {Celestial Armor} or things with multiple abilities where the math wasn't done correctly, there's some hidden discount, or the price was rounded down.

3) Conservatively you want the price of the new item to be around the root mean square average of MICR price when compared to the sample all the way up to the sample item price. If you find a very similar item use the two numbers to come up with a power biased average as your adjusted new price.

4) It does take a bit of skill to gauge how powerful an item can be and what interactions can make it better or worse. Things are priced by overall effective power in the game and that's based on usage experience in the game.

Cursed items aren't the way to design an item. They are basically challenges(trap CRs) & exceptions, whammies, and jokes.

Probably the best older source book is Magic of Faerûn from a high magic setting.

[Eldred the Grey]

I took a good bit of advice from here and removed the good alignment from the gloves. I have kept it for the torc however as I want to keep the feel of a good god having blessed it, there would be an evil version with a Profane bonus to armour. Only problem I have is creating creating one for neutral characters but I may just go for a Luck based bonus.

Once again thanks and sorry about this very delayed update.

EtG

Also I have Magic of Faerun and will be intertwining that alongside the various pf item creation rules to get an approximate.