How is the logic 7 Dungeon = 3 Pathfinder?

Meaning i would have been receiving another 7 dungeons, and as converted that became 3 pathfinders.
But as far as i can tell.. both being of similar size.. how come such a downsizing in numbers?

Meaning i would have been receiving another 7 dungeons, and as converted that became 3 pathfinders.

But as far as i can tell.. both being of similar size.. how come such a downsizing in numbers?

Pathfinder isn't a magazine. It's a 100-page advertising-free* perfectbound full-color book. Suggested retail: $19.99.

*Well, okay, there'll be a couple of house ads in the back.

I really don't want to sound ungrateful but if 7 dungeons = 3 pathfinders how come my 10 dungeons also equal 3 pathfinders?

The number of volumes of Pathfinder that you get from your converted subscriptions depends on how many issues you have left, and what you paid for your subscription. Most 12-month subscriptions clock in around $3.25 or so per issue, but if you purchased a 3-year subscription you paid less per issue, so that equals fewer converted Pathfinders.

Thanks Gary! I bought a 2 year sub for Dungeon so that does explain it.

Pathfinder isn't a magazine. It's a 100-page advertising-free* perfectbound full-color book. Suggested retail: $19.99.

Also, your converted Pathfinder volumes include shipping at a NON-periodicals rate, which is faster and more reliable than the magazine shipping. That's another $4 per volume in the US, $5 for the rest of the world.

I wish there was a cheaper shipping method: That $4 eats up most of the 30% subscriber discount. Now, I'm still going to subscribe, but it remains that I'm only saving $2 off the cost at my FLGS (and getting it sooner), instead of getting it a about half the newstand price like the old magazines.

The number of volumes of Pathfinder that you get from your converted subscriptions depends on how many issues you have left, and what you paid for your subscription. Most 12-month subscriptions clock in around $3.25 or so per issue, but if you purchased a 3-year subscription you paid less per issue, so that equals fewer converted Pathfinders.

So those of us who showed the most loyalty to your magazine by guaranteeing a 3-year revenue stream get penalized over those who didn't have enough faith in your periodical to buy a longer subscription?

I put up with alot too. The Poly/Dungeon era was not a happy time for me. The switch to the monthly format cost me content in the conversion of my remaining issues. And now this?

I've stuck with you guys and put my support behind you by committing to a long term run with you and I get the shaft a third time?

If this isn't made right, this is your third strike with me and you can forget ever seeing another penny from me.

Well, it's not precisely a three-year revenue stream. It's more of a three-year declining liability, because we have to account for unearned subscription revenue on our books as "money we owe our subscribers if they choose to cancel their subscriptions."

You saved money per-issue by getting a longer subscription, so we owe you less money per issue in a refund -- but more money than a 12-issue subscriber would see overall. That translates to fewer Pathfinder volumes per issue, but if you look at the transition options available to you, you'll see that we are offering you much more money in the form of Pathfinder volumes than we actually owe you in the form of a refund.

That said, don't forget that you can also choose to get one-for-one back issues of either magazine no matter which one you subscribed to. Those sell at full cover price of $8 each, so that's a pretty good option as well.

Or, you can hit us up for an additional 20% over the money we owe you in the form of store credit. Or, we can send you a check for the amount we owe you.

Well, it's not precisely a three-year revenue stream. It's more of a three-year declining liability, because we have to account for unearned subscription revenue on our books as "money we owe our subscribers if they choose to cancel their subscriptions."

I understand deferred revenue. I was actually updating my DR analysis in between checking messageboards (because accounting is sooooo exciting). But I'm sure most subscribers don't cancel and the subscription bookings are better indicators of future revenue than waiting to see what comes in from the newstand. That's why magazines offer subscriptions in the first place because it benefits their bottom line in the long run.

You saved money per-issue by getting a longer subscription, so we owe you less money per issue in a refund -- but more money than a 12-issue subscriber would see overall. That translates to fewer Pathfinder volumes per issue, but if you look at the transition options available to you, you'll see that we are offering you much more money in the form of Pathfinder volumes than we actually owe you in the form of a refund.

I bought a product assuming a certain amount of content for my money. Your company is basically saying you can't deliver anymore. This isn't me cancelling my subscription for a flat refund. Its you that can no longer deliver.

You HAVE put a good deal out there for fans of the Adventure Paths that subscribed to your magazine. I applaud you for that. But what about those of us who preferred the stand-alone adventures. Take my 120% store credit to buy overpriced stand-alones? Lose 33 great Dungeon adventures to gain MAYBE 3 Gamemastery modules. That's what I'm faced with.

That said, don't forget that you can also choose to get one-for-one back issues of either magazine no matter which one you subscribed to. Those sell at full cover price of $8 each, so that's a pretty good option as well.

Seeing as I have been a loyal Dungeon reader since issue #7 and I really have no use for Dragon...

Or, you can hit us up for an additional 20% over the money we owe you in the form of store credit. Or, we can send you a check for the amount we owe you.

What I would like is an equal offer of the Gamemastery modules to that of Pathfinder. My outstanding issues would earn me 4 issues of Pathfinder, a $79.96 retail value. That's roughly six Gamemastery modules @ $12.99 retail.

As an avid fan of Dungeon's stand alone adventures I'm asking that your company does not strike out with me. I would definately continue buying the Gamemastery modules if they are of the quality you have produced in the past. The offer I'm asking for still wouldn't come close to matching what I'm losing, but it would be a show of good faith to a loyal customer to at least match the best deal you are giving for the product you are touting as a replacement to the stand-alone adventures.

If this isn't made right, this is your third strike with me and you can forget ever seeing another penny from me.

Oh lord, get over it. It's not like are sitting at their desks concocting devious plans to screw you over.

I bought a product assuming a certain amount of content for my money. Your company is basically saying you can't deliver anymore. This isn't me cancelling my subscription for a flat refund. Its you that can no longer deliver.

You HAVE put a good deal out there for fans of the Adventure Paths that subscribed to your magazine. I applaud you for that. But what about those of us who preferred the stand-alone adventures. Take my 120% store credit to buy overpriced stand-alones? Lose 33 great Dungeon adventures to gain MAYBE 3 Gamemastery modules. That's what I'm faced with.

but they are delivering - from quotes by many of the authors who have recieved thier notes for their first Pathfinder adventure, each adventure path adventure can be cut into 3-5 smaller adventures, for those whom like the side adventures. You get Dragon-like articles. you get the full adventure for AP lovers.

I had 23 months remaining (11 Dragon and 12 Dungeon Magazines) and received only 5 months of Pathfinder. Something doesn't seem quite right.

5 months of Pathfinder at full price = roughly $100.

23 issues of both magazines = roughly $184.

Don't get me wrong. I am not trying to complain. I went ahead and subscribed for the 6th issue on the month-by-month. Somewhere, I think someone screwed the math up though.

Oh lord, get over it. It's not like are sitting at their desks concocting devious plans to screw you over.

Thank you for your insightful and useful post Krome. Glad to see you put alot of thought into that.

Strike One: When switching to monthly from bi-monthly Paizo tried to sell long-time subscribers on fuzzy math. We ended up with much less content than what we paid for and only after we complained loudly did they throw us a small bone by adding a couple extra issues to our accounts.

Strike Two: When asked face-to-face at GenCon before I signed a new 3-year subscription if Paizo planned to change Dungeon, Eric Mona told me they were not. Shortly thereafter Polyhedron was added and took away Dungeon content to add Scooby-Doo the RPG. As a long-term subscriber I was faced with losing my subscription or continuing to pay for a magazine I didn't want.

So, don't tell me to get over it. I'm beginning to think Paizo does not respect their long-term subscribers at all and I have reason to distrust them due to our past history.

but they are delivering - from quotes by many of the authors who have recieved thier notes for their first Pathfinder adventure, each adventure path adventure can be cut into 3-5 smaller adventures, for those whom like the side adventures. You get Dragon-like articles. you get the full adventure for AP lovers.

But how do I determine if this is actually true before I sink my remaining subscription into this?

I KNOW the Gamemastery modules are stand-alone, I just have their word on Pathfinder.

And I haven't purchased Dragon for quite some time because it was no use to me. That portion of Pathfinder doesn't interest me either.

I don't think I'm asking much from Paizo to offer an option for the Gamemastery modules equal to the Pathfinder option. But then they probably figure if I get the 4 Pathfinder modules I'm more compelled to purchase the next two to complete a set. If the Gamemastery modules are sub-par then I have an easier out.

I've stuck behind Paizo despite our differences, but this is such a harsh turn that I could easily divest myself from their products without second thought at this point unless they step up and offer good alternatives to their entire fan base.

But how do I determine if this is actually true before I sink my remaining subscription into this?

I KNOW the Gamemastery modules are stand-alone, I just have their word on Pathfinder.

And I haven't purchased Dragon for quite some time because it was no use to me. That portion of Pathfinder doesn't interest me either.

I don't think I'm asking much from Paizo to offer an option for the Gamemastery modules equal to the Pathfinder option. But then they probably figure if I get the 4 Pathfinder modules I'm more compelled to purchase the next two to complete a set. If the Gamemastery modules are sub-par then I have an easier out.

I've stuck behind Paizo despite our differences, but this is such a harsh turn that I could easily divest myself from their products without second thought at this point unless they step up and offer good alternatives to their entire fan base.

Dude, if what they have offered now isn't enough for you you probably are better off to just grab the refund in October and be done with it. Check out Pathfinder when it hits the stores and make a decision then. The subscription rate will most likely remain constant for some time. I'm not trying to be snarky or anything but what you are asking for doesn't seem likely now.

Dude, if what they have offered now isn't enough for you you probably are better off to just grab the refund in October and be done with it. Check out Pathfinder when it hits the stores and make a decision then. The subscription rate will most likely remain constant for some time. I'm not trying to be snarky or anything but what you are asking for doesn't seem likely now.

Not going to be buying Pathfinder at all. It's not what I need. I bought Dungeon because it filled a very important need in my gaming world.

I'm not fully attacking Paizo here. I wouldn't have stuck with them as a loyal subscriber if I didn't think they responded well to customer complaints. I do like the looks of their Gamemastery line of products and all I'm asking for is equal consideration. Pathfinder seems geared towards Dungeon Adventure Path fans, while the Gamemastery line caters to the one-shot fans.

God forbid I try to get the value I paid for out of my money...:-\

Dude, if what they have offered now isn't enough for you you probably are better off to just grab the refund in October and be done with it. Check out Pathfinder when it hits the stores and make a decision then. The subscription rate will most likely remain constant for some time. I'm not trying to be snarky or anything but what you are asking for doesn't seem likely now.

Exactly.

God forbid I try to get the value I paid for out of my money...:-\

it would be great if Paizo can honor your request. But really, you're asking for an awful lot. Paizo did NOT cancel these two great magazines and are offering to:

(a) Give you back your EXACT refund
(b) As an apology bonus your refund +20%
(c) The deal on Pathfinder (the line they hope will fill the void left by Dungeon and Dragon's sudden departures).

A Full Refund +20% seems like 20% more value for your money. Your three-strike ultimatum seems a little misplaced.

Like PsychoticWarrior I'm not trying to be snarky either but these guys are bending over backwards for us. If you think that because I have "Pathfinder charter subscriber" next to my name that I'm not PO'd that WotC decided to cancel the magazines then you would be wrong. I am PO'd but not at Paizo. Take the 20% and apply it to the GameMastery modules or wait until October when your Dungeon Subscription finally expires for your refund.

As for your Past history with Paizo some of us liked the transition to monthly and some of us liked the addition of Polyhedron. Unfortunately they can't please everyone. I'm sorry that you weren't among the people who enjoyed those changes.

As far as your face to face conversation with Erik: we don't know what happened behind the scenes, whether WotC forced the addition of Poly or if the decision was just made to after you spoke to him at GenCon. My experiences with the staff of Paizo have always been very possitive and honest. Erik probably had no reason to suspect that the magazines would change otherwise he would have likely talked about the exciting new things that would be coming to Dungeon (even if he couldn’t discuss what those changes might be).

So if Paizo can not accommodate your needs remember they are not trying to screw any of us and not all of us will be totally satisfied by anything any company does.

Andrew

*edit +20% in Store Credit oops*

Not going to be buying Pathfinder at all. It's not what I need. I bought Dungeon because it filled a very important need in my gaming world.

I'm not fully attacking Paizo here. I wouldn't have stuck with them as a loyal subscriber if I didn't think they responded well to customer complaints. I do like the looks of their Gamemastery line of products and all I'm asking for is equal consideration. Pathfinder seems geared towards Dungeon Adventure Path fans, while the Gamemastery line caters to the one-shot fans.

God forbid I try to get the value I paid for out of my money...:-\

Oooooookay. I'll just leave quietly by the back then.

it would be great if Paizo can honor your request. But really, you're asking for an awful lot.

Asking for equal consideration on a line that fills the void of one-shot adventures is asking too much?

Paizo did NOT cancel these two great magazines and are offering to:

(a) Give you back your EXACT refund

Something they would have to give me if I cancel my subscription.

(b) As an apology bonus your refund +20%

I agree this is generous, but not equal to the deal being given to Pathfinder's new fanbase.

(c) The deal on Pathfinder (the line they hope will fill the void left by Dungeon and Dragon's sudden departures).

It fills the void for part of their customer base: the Adventrure Path fans. While I think the APs are a great innovation, I have no use for them and I tend not to spend my money on things I don't need.

A Full Refund +20% seems like 20% more value for your money. Your three-strike ultimatum seems a little misplaced.

Seems like, but its not. For my 11 issues I would get 33 great adventures. With my store credit I can get 2. Even if they are equivalent to two Dungeon adventures that's 4 adventures to the 33 or 12% of the value of what I paid for.

As for your Past history with Paizo some of us liked the transition to monthly and some of us liked the addition of Polyhedron. Unfortunately they can't please everyone. I'm sorry that you weren't among the people who enjoyed those changes.

I liked the transition to monthly except that my 12 issues at 150 pages each every two months initially became 12 issues at 100 pages each every month. And then to be told we were getting more content because it was 200 pages every two months instead of 150. That would have made sense if my subscription had gone from 12 issues to 24, but it went from Two Years (12 issues, 1,800 pages) to One Year (12 issues, 1,200 pages) unitl enough of us subscribers cried foul and got a couple more issues added to reduce our loss. As for Polyhedron to me it was the equivalent of pasting Newsweek and the National Enquirer together. You might like both, but I wasn't the only Poly hater out there and there were those that loved Poly and hated Dungeon being stck to it.

As far as your face to face conversation with Erik: we don't know what happened behind the scenes, whether WotC forced the addition of Poly or if the decision was just made to after you spoke to him at GenCon. My experiences with the staff of Paizo have always been very possitive and honest. Erik probably had no reason to suspect that the...

As I said I stuck with them as a loyal customer despite issues I had with them. I must think they are a decent company and I hope Erik wasn't lying to my face back then. But now I'm asking for consideration for a long-time customer and fan of their fine products.

I may sound harsh in my ultimatum, but I'm not their friend, I'm a customer. I ditched my old satellite company when they had an issue with NBC and in "their customer's best interest" allowed all NBC programming to cease for a few days. They couldn't deliver what I was looking for and I don't regret my decision to leave them and never return.

Strike One: When switching to monthly from bi-monthly Paizo tried to sell long-time subscribers on fuzzy math. We ended up with much less content than what we paid for and only after we complained loudly did they throw us a small bone by adding a couple extra issues to our accounts.

Strike Two: When asked face-to-face at GenCon before I signed a new 3-year subscription if Paizo planned to change Dungeon, Eric Mona told me they were not. Shortly thereafter Polyhedron was added and took away Dungeon content to add Scooby-Doo the RPG. As a long-term subscriber I was faced with losing my subscription or continuing to pay for a magazine I didn't want.

Wow, I see where you're coming from. You've gotten screwed over big time. If I were in your shoes, I'd cancel my subscription and get the full refund. Don't buy Pathfinder, since it's so obviously not what you want/need. Finally, you could log-off the messageboards and refuse to readthem or post anything else. Tha'll show them.

So, don't tell me to get over it. I'm beginning to think Paizo does not respect their long-term subscribers at all and I have reason to distrust them due to our past history.

I'm sure that the upcoming WotC "Digital Initiative" will be a much more reliable and valuable product...

...Man, as hard as I try, I can't say that with a straight face...

23 issues of both magazines = roughly $184.

Dude, I live in Canada and I don't pay that much for 23 issues. Even after converting to canadian funds I don't pay that much.

5 months of Pathfinder at full price = roughly $100.

23 issues of both magazines = roughly $184.

First of all, you're still getting the next three months, so you really have 8 and 9 for conversion. Additionally, you're a subscriber. As you might note, you paid less than $8 each for those subscription issues. Using myself as a model (I had 11-11 left, so it's pretty close), you paid about $80 for the two full subscriptions. You're getting the next quarter year, since the magazines will still be published, so that's $60 left. For this you are offered 5 issues of Pathfinder, which is $100 retail or $70 subscriber ($90 subscriber if shipping counts). That seems like a nice trade up to me, dollar wise.

Argue the value of the content if you want: The pathfinder blog speaks for itself. But just in terms of getting your money back, that's pretty generous.

My only problem with this is losing $4 of my credit to shipping each month. cant you just send out a "free pathfinder" voucher and borders can pay my shipping?

Wow, I see where you're coming from. You've gotten screwed over big time. If I were in your shoes, I'd cancel my subscription and get the full refund. Don't buy Pathfinder, since it's so obviously not what you want/need. Finally, you could log-off the messageboards and refuse to readthem or post anything else. Tha'll show them.

At least I won't have to read any more Paizo fanboi posts...

I'm sure that the upcoming WotC "Digital Initiative" will be a much more reliable and valuable product...

...Man, as hard as I try, I can't say that with a straight face...

And where did I ever say Paizo's products aren't valuable? I can't use Pathfinder, but I'm positive it will be a quality product. All I'm asking Paizo for is fair and equal compensation for those of us who subscribed to their magazine for the past 5 years (longer than that if you count pre-Paizo) for the non-Adventure Path adventures they printed. They have a quality product lined up in the Gamemastery modules that I am interested in. I just feel penalized for not jumping on the Pathfinder bandwagon. I'm not asking for more value than others are already receiving.

Vyvyan,

I'd just like to mention that all decision-makers on this sort of thing are at GAMA this week, so you might not get an authoritative response for awhile. Thanks for your patience.

You saved money per-issue by getting a longer subscription, so we owe you less money per issue in a refund -- but more money than a 12-issue subscriber would see overall. That translates to fewer Pathfinder volumes per issue, but if you look at the transition options available to you, you'll see that we are offering you much more money in the form of Pathfinder volumes than we actually owe you in the form of a refund.

I bought a product assuming a certain amount of content for my money. Your company is basically saying you can't deliver anymore. This isn't me cancelling my subscription for a flat refund. Its you that can no longer deliver.

You HAVE put a good deal out there for fans of the Adventure Paths that subscribed to your magazine. I applaud you for that. But what about those of us who preferred the stand-alone adventures. Take my 120% store credit to buy overpriced stand-alones? Lose 33 great Dungeon adventures to gain MAYBE 3 Gamemastery modules. That's what I'm faced with.

I have to say while he may have been a little harsh you are All being a little harsh to Vyvyan Basterd. I do believe that Paizo is comitted to excellent customer service and are trying their best to satisfy their customers but Vyvyan Basterd's gripe above is valid.
Understand that I have nothing to gain one way or another since I have always bought both Dungeon & Dragon at my local gaming store and therefore have no subscription. All that seems to be said above is that Paizo seems to be forgetting that not everyone bought Dungeon for the APs. Some people bought it for the stand alone adventures. It shouldn't matter that he was able to receive all those Dungeon mags for x amount per issue and therefore he should be content. That is the deal he made with Paizo when he signed on for 3 years. I don't see the problem with Vyvyan Basterd wanting to receive the same value in the new modules(since he bought Dungeon for the stand alone adventures. I believe Paizo is working hard on satisfying all reasonable requests. I believe Vyvyan Basterd has a valid argument and a resonable request.

Hello,

I am a Paizo fanboi, and as you can see above, have already made the switch to Pathfinder.

That said, i think that Vyvyan Basterd's request for some sort of deal involving the GameMastery products is valid. As you can read below, Paizo has made it known that the GameMastery products will fill the void for stand-alone adventures:

For stand-alone adventures, we're producing a line of 32-page GameMastery Modules starting in June, and we have extensive plans for more adventures and more source material in coming months and years.

We should leave Vyvyan Basterd alone and allow him/her to wait for Paizo's response in this matter. Just my opinion.

Happy Gaming,

Shimrath.

quick question. i havnt gone through the process of what to do with my credits yet but would it make more sense to get 120% refund in store credit and use that store credit for pathfinder month to month at 30% off? or is the pathfinder credit for transfer already accounting for that?

I really don't want to sound ungrateful but if 7 dungeons = 3 pathfinders how come my 10 dungeons also equal 3 pathfinders?

Sound ungrateful. Sure Wizards is revoking their publishing license but Paizo is Not Acting in Good Faith Subscribers purchased a Number of Magazine Issues which Paizo is Not Presently Converting Equally.

Paizo is Cheating long term subscribers on the issue conversion rate by Not Acting in Good Faith and that is just Wrong IMO.

Is Paizo Making Subscription Refunds Now for Long Term Subscibers who Opt Out? No they know they are in breach of their contract with their subscibers and it's just another example of Paizo Not Acting in Good Faith. They are dragging out refunds in the Hopes of Increased Subscription Conversions.

Personally I'm hoping that at least one subscriber is a lawyer and files a lawsuit against Paizo over this as that bogus conversion math won't fly in court with a judge or a jury particularly if a secondary retailer like Amazon can do a better deal moving this Pathfinder "Book".

I am a Paizo fanboi

I can definatively say that I am not a Paizo fanboy. I base this on the fact that I have never bought a single Paizo product and can count on one hand how many times I've picked up an issue of Dragon and/or Dungeon at the bookstore and flipped through it.

I like the idea behind Pathfinder and decided to order a month-to-month subscription so I can give it a whirl.

-Skeld

Personally I'm hoping that at least one subscriber is a lawyer and files a lawsuit against Paizo over this as that bogus conversion math won't fly in court with a judge or a jury particularly if a secondary retailer like Amazon can do a better deal moving this Pathfinder "Book".

The above statement and action would only hold water if Dragon/Dungeon subscribers were forced to roll their subscriptions over to Pathfinder. Since Paizo has supplied a number of options (the most obvious being a refund for unsent issues), a lawsuit would be akin to a customer screaming "I don't like the choice I made." This is bolstered by the fact that a Pathfinder subscription could easily be cancelled after one issue if said customer didn't like it or changed their mind.

Sounds to me like Paizo is providing a (more or less) low-hassle method of rolling Dragon/Dungeon subscription overage into another product. If someone wants to spend that money on Pathdinder, they don't have to go through the process of receiving a refund and signing up for a Pathfinder subscription separately. You can take care of all that stuff all at the same time.

-Skeld

I have asked this in other threads with no answer. So maybe with the amount of traffic in this thread I can get it answered.

What is Pathfinder? Some sort of play on the Dark Horse Comic, Movie License, Both, or something totally new that lacks the creativity of a title that will not confuse others?

I would like to know this before I decide to take my check. Since the other options won't work for me.

Personally I'm hoping that at least one subscriber is a lawyer and files a lawsuit against Paizo over this as that bogus conversion math won't fly in court with a judge or a jury particularly if a secondary retailer like Amazon can do a better deal moving this Pathfinder "Book".

VB is correct to point out that he contracted with Paizo to get certain number of issues of Dungeon (with an average of 3 adventures per issue) and that contract has been "breached". But there's an exception in contract law when cicrumstances beyond your control force you to breach, and that kind of limits damages recovery. Like selling subscriptions to a magaine you're licsensed to produce and then having that liscense revoked, or your country being invaded (actual common law case). In situations like that offering refund+ or other options is usally not a bad way to try to deal with such a scenario.

Under contract law, the refund+ (minus performance rendered, aka issues sent) is a reasonable compensation. All other transfer options are new offers for new contracts allowing subscribers to trade that refund+ for other products. Technically we're not entitled to anything other than our money back... (see above in reference to damages)

That's not to say that VB is wrong. I liked both the individual adventures as well as the AP, but while in lawschool I haven't been able to start a new campaign and thus use an AP yet. I have been updating Dungeon single adventures to meet my current campaigns needs, so I can share VB's pain in losing a subscription for the individual ones. AP lovers (which I AM) are getting offers that individual adventurer lovers (which I AM) are not...

VB's requests aren't unreasonable, but from Paizo's financial point of view they MAY be economically infeasible, especially on a mass scale. We could play theoretical economics (not my favorite subject) and accounting (my major in undergrad) but without Paizo's current financial data its mere speculation from the consumer's POV.

Just my two cents, and this is all from my memory of first semester law school. Now back to the fun stuff: studying for taxation of capital gains law exam. You want to trade day jobs?

Vyvyan,

I'd just like to mention that all decision-makers on this sort of thing are at GAMA this week, so you might not get an authoritative response for awhile. Thanks for your patience.

Thank you Gary. I don't mind waiting for an answer.

And thanks to everybody else backing me up here. I don't think I'm being unreasonable and being told to "suck it up" by those people happy with the current options. Good for you.

As for my harshness, I only mention past incidents to drive home how devoted I have been to Paizo in the past despite our differences. I wish them well and my personal decision on a course of action is not meant as a clarion call to boycott Paizo. I save that pitch for WoTC.

Well, I'm taking the Pathfinder option, as you can see. There are a number of reasons for this, not the least of which is the fact that I have two three year subscriptions to Dragon and Dungeon. Getting my money back is wasteful when I can get more ideas.

I hardly run a single module, except when I run Greyhawk, because it's a world of modules.

So basically, if I run any of these outright, they'll be spot-converted, with most of the creatures added/adjusted/changed.

Now, my question is...what's the deal with the monster manuals and what creatures Paizo is allowed to use in its Pathfinder series.

That could be annoying. "If you are running this using their no longer OGL content, please reference this book and this page number."

It's MLA legal. They can do it, and it's an official citation. It just means that Pathfinder is now a scholarly publication. Retarded? Sure. But technically, there's no reason they can't "Quote" a statblock as reference material. It just means you need a working bibliography at the end of the article.

Maybe it's just me, and not trying to stir up any arguments, but I bought a 2 year subscription (each mag) back in August. For all purposes, that money is gone to me. Spent, no longer in my check account, etc.

I take this as a possibility to see something new. Sure, the D&D part will be gone (campaign specific). However, I've enjoyed the Shackled City and Savage Tide APs (haven't read the AoW yet). I've always thought that 12 months was too long to wait.

If the new format is not to my expectations, I'll just cancel. If it's good, I'll weigh the cost to the product and go from there. I did a post in another thread, but I'd be interested in a PDF Only subscription.

I hope that they continue to support the product like they are with the Dragon and online information.

I am torn by the silence on the WotC end. A little insight into their plans would be nice.

Wow, I see where you're coming from. You've gotten screwed over big time. If I were in your shoes, I'd cancel my subscription and get the full refund. Don't buy Pathfinder, since it's so obviously not what you want/need. Finally, you could log-off the messageboards and refuse to readthem or post anything else. Tha'll show them.

Wow, that's awesome! I agree. You should get back at those money grubbing bastards by never playing Dungeons and Dragons again.

How about:
1) Get your refund as store credit
2) Buy Gamemastery products with your store credit

You could even get the map-packs to go along with your adventures.

I have asked this in other threads with no answer. So maybe with the amount of traffic in this thread I can get it answered.

What is Pathfinder? Some sort of play on the Dark Horse Comic, Movie License, Both, or something totally new that lacks the creativity of a title that will not confuse others?

I would like to know this before I decide to take my check. Since the other options won't work for me.

Hi ELAzalin,

Pathfinder is our monthly book product releasing in August that is aimed at bringing our fans the same kind of shared Adventure Path experience we've been able to give them through Dungeon magazine and at the same time world and adventure building pieces like Ecologies and Class Acts.

It has no ties to the movie that just released.

--Jeff

Gary Teter wrote:

Vyvyan,

I'd just like to mention that all decision-makers on this sort of thing are at GAMA this week, so you might not get an authoritative response for awhile. Thanks for your patience.

Thank you Gary. I don't mind waiting for an answer.

And thanks to everybody else backing me up here. I don't think I'm being unreasonable and being told to "suck it up" by those people happy with the current options. Good for you.

As for my harshness, I only mention past incidents to drive home how devoted I have been to Paizo in the past despite our differences. I wish them well and my personal decision on a course of action is not meant as a clarion call to boycott Paizo. I save that pitch for WoTC.

Hi Vyvyan Bastard,

I think that while your request is not unreasonable it may be a little too much for us to allow every one of our subscribers the ability to choose their own method of compensation for their reamining issues. We have about 40,000 individual subscribers and there's no way we could handle that many different requests. When you open the gate for one person then all the others want to know why they weren't getting the same kind of offer.

--Jeff

How about:

1) Get your refund as store credit
2) Buy Gamemastery products with your store credit

You could even get the map-packs to go along with your adventures.

Because, as VB explained, the number of GameMastery products VB could purchase with the offered store credit does not equal the number of stand-alone adventures that VB subscribed (i.e., contracted) to receive in the magazines (were they to continue).

Truthfully, it's not an wholly unreasonable request. I don't think it's going to go VB's way, but I empathize with VB's stance.

As for me, I'll purchase Pathfinder, Issue #1 … if only to see what really is replacing the Dragon and Dungeon magazines. I might even subscribe … provided I ever get an answer to my question(s) posed here.

GAAAHHHH wrote:

How about:

1) Get your refund as store credit
2) Buy Gamemastery products with your store credit

You could even get the map-packs to go along with your adventures.

Because, as VB explained, the number of GameMastery products VB could purchase with the offered store credit does not equal the number of stand-alone adventures that VB subscribed (i.e., contracted) to receive in the magazines (were they to continue).

Truthfully, it's not an wholly unreasonable request. I don't think it's going to go VB's way, but I empathize with VB's stance.

As for me, I'll purchase Pathfinder, Issue #1 … if only to see what really is replacing the Dragon and Dungeon magazines. I might even subscribe … provided I ever get an answer to my question(s) posed here.

Hi Horseflesh,

I've reviewed your earlier posts and have tried to answer your questions. Please let me know if I missed any.

--Jeff

Hi Horseflesh,

I've reviewed your earlier posts and have tried to answer your questions. Please let me know if I missed any.

--Jeff

Thank you, Jeff. I believe you answered everything quite well.

I still hate that my 5 equals your 2. Plus I don't get the comics or the "what's new". And, just for the record, I don't have a hobby shop in my area so I like the advertisements.

I let my Dungeon script go because I don't have time to game, but I still love it. How I stay emotionally connected is through the comics and short articles in Dragon. If that's gone (as I told WotC) then I no longer have time or money, for D&D.

And no I don't want a pdf of anything.

Hi Vyvyan Bastard,

I think that while your request is not unreasonable it may be a little too much for us to allow every one of our subscribers the ability to choose their own method of compensation for their remaining issues. We have about 40,000 individual subscribers and there's no way we could handle that many different requests. When you open the gate for one person then all the others want to know why they weren't getting the same kind of offer.

--Jeff

I'm just mildly surprised that you would forget the fans of your stand alone adventures and not think of us when structuring your deal in the first place. You came out of the gate letting us know that Pathfinder was to fill the void of the Adventure Paths and the Gamemastery Modules were the solution for stand alone adventures and you only offered us one as compensation for our subscription.

It's been an interesting five years Paizo. Hope you do well, but you will do so without my further patronage.

The real issue is not why are you getting less number issues as me, the real issue is why is my last four issues the same as your last four issues.

You sign up for a three year subscription, this gets you more savings per issue. I sign up for a one year subscription, this gets me less savings per issue. Yet at this point, we both have exactly the same length of subscription, 4 issues.

I am still paying more for my issues then you are, despite both of us having the same number remaining. I am the one getting screwed in that deal. Why can't I increase my subscription to a "3 year" one so I get the same exact savings as you get over the next four issues and then get the remaining money refunded to me?

In this case, ignorance has benefited you more than it has me. Had we both known that the magazines were going to end, I would have gotten an extended subscription so that I could get the increased savings and not really commit myself to a longer time period.

I think the big mistake is trying to compare the money you have spent to the cover prices. But lets say we do and lets say that someone had intended to get a 3-year subscription in order to make "money". They were going to get the issues and sell them to someone else for the cover price, thus making the difference in profit. Well that person has made more "profit" than someone else who got a 1-year subscription up to this point. And not only that they get a 100% refund on their remaining investment. That is a heck of an investment.

So you are no worse off at all then if you had been told at the time of your renewal that the mags were going to end. In fact you are in better case, because if they had known at that time, they would not have offered you the 3-year subscription that got you even more savings.

I think the real issues is, why are they treating everyone as equal after the transition, why aren't you continuing to get prefered treatment? The answer is because they are going to a month-by-month model and the three-year subscription is no longer any more valuable than the one-year subscription (though you still save more money on the next four issues and if you choose, older issues).