Pathfinder Player Companion: Paths of the Righteous (PFRPG)

:O

I am excite

BardWannabe wrote:

Will at least one of them support Empyreal Lords? The Mystery Cultist is only worthwhile for full casters.

The 14 prestige classes are each built with the assumption that they support one of several good deities. The deities represented by a prestige class are as follows:

Cayden Cailean
Ragathiel
Kurgess
Sarenrae
Shelyn
Ashava
Iomedae
Erastil
Milani
Soralyon
Torag
Vildeis
Desna
Pulura

And that's probably enough spoilers for now... gotta spread things out between now and the end of the year! ;-)

Milani you say. You have my interest.

Ashava!

As a fan of Sarenrae, I am interested. :)

Bardess wrote:

I think we'll see updated versions of the Spherewalker, Chevalier, and so on...

None of these are updates of old classes.

Aw. I guess I'll just have to do archetype via Warpriest then....

James Jacobs wrote:

Bardess wrote:

I think we'll see updated versions of the Spherewalker, Chevalier, and so on...

None of these are updates of old classes.

Aw. I guess I'll just have to do archetype via Warpriest then....

Perhaps... but MANY of the prestige classes in here are particularly good choices for clerics or warpriests.

I understand that Mister Jacobs but I'm still kind of partial to Chevalier.

Look at it this way: We still have the 3-level Chevalier prestige class. Maybe one of these 14 prestige classes offers something similar? So far all we know about them is that they are thematically associated with the deities that James Jacobs listed -- we cannot even be sure whether all or even any of them specifically require worship of one of those listed deities.

That said, I really am curious to see what the one associated with Ashava looks like. There obviously has to be some sort of dancing theme here.

Look at it this way: We still have the 3-level Chevalier prestige class. Maybe one of these 14 prestige classes offers something similar?

True. I wasn't saying this was deal breaker for me, merely I'd hope to see it in this book.

That I won't doesn't trouble me as much as other things.

Berselius wrote:

Gorbacz wrote:

Meh. Good is for wussies.

And evil is for people who are too lazy to put any effort into their actions.

And that's why CN is my favourite alignment. All the fun, zero responsibility!

CN doesn't have to mean insane. It can also stand for a desire to not conform with society's expectations (aka selfish but you have your own goals and want to get them done without being told what to do by others). Sort of like movie Deadpool. After all, Amiri is Chaotic Neutral and she isn't insane...well...she isn't when she's not raging at least.

BardWannabe wrote:

Will at least one of them support Empyreal Lords? The Mystery Cultist is only worthwhile for full casters.

The 14 prestige classes are each built with the assumption that they support one of several good deities. The deities represented by a prestige class are as follows:

Cayden Cailean
Ragathiel
Kurgess
Sarenrae
Shelyn
Ashava
Iomedae
Erastil
Milani
Soralyon
Torag
Vildeis
Desna
Pulura

And that's probably enough spoilers for now... gotta spread things out between now and the end of the year! ;-)

No Arshea?

Ah, well, can't get always get everything you want. :D

I hope we'll get a kick butt undead slaying prestige class for Pharasma worshipers one day though. :(

No Arshea?

Ah, well, can't get always get everything you want. :D

I hope we'll get a kick butt undead slaying prestige class for Pharasma worshipers one day though. :(

You might find the soul warden in Player Companion: Undead Slayer's Handbook interesting.

Berselius wrote:

No Arshea?

Ah, well, can't get always get everything you want. :D

I hope we'll get a kick butt undead slaying prestige class for Pharasma worshipers one day though. :(

You might find the soul warden in Player Companion: Undead Slayer's Handbook interesting.

Allow me to rephrase. I hope we'll get a "more mobile melee combat hunter / divine spellcaster based undead slaying class" one day.

To be fair, I've always found it odd that Iomedae has more &/or better undead-fighting options for PCs than Pharasma, whose whole schtick is pretty anti-undead.

Back on topic, I'm curious to see what we'll get for the "bro-god" Kurgess, as well :)
... though, now I want the cover to be a bar competition between followers of Cayden Cailean and Kurgess with the followers of most of the others all placing bets, excepting Vildeis and Iomedae who would both have martyred looks...

Well fighting against the Whispering Way is definitely a "it's personal" thing for Iomedae and her followers.

*Sigh* We're never going to get generalized prestige classes like we did in Advanced Player's Guide, again, are we?

*Sigh* We're never going to get generalized prestige classes like we did in Advanced Player's Guide, again, are we?

Not necessarily never—it's just not the design goal of this particular product.

*Sigh* We're never going to get generalized prestige classes like we did in Advanced Player's Guide, again, are we?

Buy ALL the copies of this product. The more support you show products with Prestige Classes in them, the more likely you are to see more products with more Prestige Classes in them.

I guess Barachiel is more after Ur-Priests and Planar Shepherds and less about Shackles Pirates and Mammooth Riders.

In which case, buying more books won't help much.

I guess Barachiel is more after Ur-Priests and Planar Shepherds and less about Shackles Pirates and Mammooth Riders.

In which case, buying more books won't help much.

It actually might.

We can't do exactly the same kind of PrC book over and over. And we don't do campaign-specific PrCs in the RPG line. So if this does amazing sales numbers, there will be a better change of different kinds of PrC products in the future as well.

I, for example, would love to see a hardback Ultimate Prestige rpg book. But that's a tough sell without more examples of recent, successful PrC products.

*Sigh* We're never going to get generalized prestige classes like we did in Advanced Player's Guide, again, are we?

What about the three from Inner Sea Gods? Those were pretty general.

Prestige classes have historically been underwhelming, so I'm interested to see what the design team can come up with that would be more appealing than going straight 20 in a regular class. I'd really like to see the Ragathiel PrC be a viable option for Barbarians, if any Lawful Good deity is going to count Barbs among their most devout it'll be him.

I would much rather see a ultimate kineticist or at least a ultimate occult/psychic book before a ultimate prestige book. In fact ultimate books for playable races, feats, spells, archetypes, artifacts, and another equipment book would be preferred.

Given the historically underwhelming state of prestige classes I would be fine to see the class design erring on the side of overpowered rather than under.

One thing I must say about Pathfinder is thanks to archetypes, I don't have to worry about getting like 4-5 prestige classes to get ONE character any more.

That said, more prestige classes = fine with me.

Hayato Ken wrote:

Here´s hope Prestige Classes become a bit more flexible, so they are of use to characters coming from different entry classes, with different main stats, etc.

It´s certainly believable that members of a certain organization share some ideals, goals and also some abilities, but i think it´s totaly unbelievable when a PrC produces nearly 100% similar characters in each case or has one good and one bad entry option.
That doesn´t make sense for those organisations, since they would hinder themselves.

Prestige classes work best when they are flexible and an option for multiple classes or points of entry—in that way, they're kind of the opposite of an archetype, which REQUIRES a specific class and usually requires you to make that choice at 1st level.

In any case, these prestige classes are all designed to be attractive to multiple classes; not always divine spellcaster classes, despite the fact that each one is tied to a specific good-aligned deity.

I´m sorry to say that the New Lion Blade PrC and Enchanting Courtesan didn´t give me this impression.

James Jacobs wrote:

Hayato Ken wrote:

Here´s hope Prestige Classes become a bit more flexible, so they are of use to characters coming from different entry classes, with different main stats, etc.

It´s certainly believable that members of a certain organization share some ideals, goals and also some abilities, but i think it´s totaly unbelievable when a PrC produces nearly 100% similar characters in each case or has one good and one bad entry option.
That doesn´t make sense for those organisations, since they would hinder themselves.

Prestige classes work best when they are flexible and an option for multiple classes or points of entry—in that way, they're kind of the opposite of an archetype, which REQUIRES a specific class and usually requires you to make that choice at 1st level.

In any case, these prestige classes are all designed to be attractive to multiple classes; not always divine spellcaster classes, despite the fact that each one is tied to a specific good-aligned deity.

I´m sorry to say that the New Lion Blade PrC and Enchanting Courtesan didn´t give me this impression.

Those prestige classes aren't part of Paths of the Prestige's design goal of "be attractive to multiple classes," and as such weren't intended to exemplify that design goal at all.

I can see that. I´m afraid you lost me there - logicwise - though.

Did only the PrCs in Paths of Prestige have the design goal to be flexible and an option for multiple classes or points of entry?
And other PrC´s then have different design goals?
What were the goals for Lion Blade and Enchanting Courtesan then if i may ask?

And how might this be with future PrCs?

I can see that. I´m afraid you lost me there - logicwise - though.

Did only the PrCs in Paths of Prestige have the design goal to be flexible and an option for multiple classes or points of entry?
And other PrC´s then have different design goals?
What were the goals for Lion Blade and Enchanting Courtesan then if i may ask?

And how might this be with future PrCs?

Not everyone at Paizo has the same design goals and philosophies when it comes to Prestige Classes. For me, I see them as options that should appeal to multiple characters, allowing for multiple entry points. For example, the Hellknight prestige class is a good option for fighters and paladins and cavaliers, but isn't an impossible option for other classes. An archetype, on the other hand, ONLY works with one class. Prestige classes are more versatile.

The prestige classes in Paths of Prestige were also initially intended to follow that maxim as well, and they do relatively well there I think. Some, like the Winter Witch, are specifically for a specific class, but most are more versatile. The tattooed mystic, for example, works for any spellcaster.

I wasn't involved with the Lion Blade and the Enchanting Courtesan, so I can't really say much about their goals, other than that I think one of the Lion Blade goals was that someone here wanted to update/fix that prestige class to address concerns from PFS. I could be wrong there.

If I have my way, the "should work well for multiple classes" theory will be adopted for all future prestige classes, but as Paizo has grown my direct influence over our products has started to diminish.

And of course, my design philosophy for prestige classes is somewhat different from the design team's preference that prestige classes help to enable specific multiclass combinations (as seen in classes like the arcane trickster or the eldritch knight). I'm not as big a fan of that philosophy, and instead prefer prestige classes to be tied to the world's flavor and serve to expand and grow organization roles. Like the Hellknights, the Red Mantis assassin, or the prophet of Kalistrade.

James, with your discussion here on this particular product page, will you be involved in the writing or design/development of Paths of the Righteous? Will your preferred method of prestige classes as options for multiple base classes be showcased in this product?

James, with your discussion here on this particular product page, will you be involved in the writing or design/development of Paths of the Righteous? Will your preferred method of prestige classes as options for multiple base classes be showcased in this product?

That's precisely the reason I'm here. After finishing my work on Curse of the Crimson Throne, I was asked by THEM to come in and take up development work on several Campaign Setting and Player Companion volumes to help get things back on schedule. I developed Haunted Heroes Handbook and Divine Anthology, but Paths of the Righteous is the only one of the Player Companions I've actually concepted from the outset—it's the only one that I've outlined, assigned, and developed from start to finish.

So... yeah. The whole point of Paths of the Righteous is that each of the 14 prestige classes should be viable for multiple classes. The theme that ties them all together is that each one is focused on a specific deity, so that's the one shared characteristic—they all have "DEITY: Must worship this deity" as a prerequisite. But beyond that, options are pretty wide open.

Mythraine wrote:

James, with your discussion here on this particular product page, will you be involved in the writing or design/development of Paths of the Righteous? Will your preferred method of prestige classes as options for multiple base classes be showcased in this product?

That's precisely the reason I'm here. After finishing my work on Curse of the Crimson Throne, I was asked by THEM to come in and take up development work on several Campaign Setting and Player Companion volumes to help get things back on schedule. I developed Haunted Heroes Handbook and Divine Anthology, but Paths of the Righteous is the only one of the Player Companions I've actually concepted from the outset—it's the only one that I've outlined, assigned, and developed from start to finish.

So... yeah. The whole point of Paths of the Righteous is that each of the 14 prestige classes should be viable for multiple classes. The theme that ties them all together is that each one is focused on a specific deity, so that's the one shared characteristic—they all have "DEITY: Must worship this deity" as a prerequisite. But beyond that, options are pretty wide open.

OK, wow. That's got me rather excited. Slightly off topic ... are there other Player Companions announced or TBA that you have concepted from the outset?

James Jacobs wrote:

Mythraine wrote:

James, with your discussion here on this particular product page, will you be involved in the writing or design/development of Paths of the Righteous? Will your preferred method of prestige classes as options for multiple base classes be showcased in this product?

That's precisely the reason I'm here. After finishing my work on Curse of the Crimson Throne, I was asked by THEM to come in and take up development work on several Campaign Setting and Player Companion volumes to help get things back on schedule. I developed Haunted Heroes Handbook and Divine Anthology, but Paths of the Righteous is the only one of the Player Companions I've actually concepted from the outset—it's the only one that I've outlined, assigned, and developed from start to finish.

So... yeah. The whole point of Paths of the Righteous is that each of the 14 prestige classes should be viable for multiple classes. The theme that ties them all together is that each one is focused on a specific deity, so that's the one shared characteristic—they all have "DEITY: Must worship this deity" as a prerequisite. But beyond that, options are pretty wide open.

OK, wow. That's got me rather excited. Slightly off topic ... are there other Player Companions announced or TBA that you have concepted from the outset?

Going forward, not at this time, but lately things are changing weekly for my job duties it seems.

Going backward... it's been a long, long time since I've done one of these. Many, many years.

Thanks for the insights, that´s highly appreciated!

Enchanting Courtesan being tied so heavily to WIS made me a bit sad, but i´m looking forward to this product here now!
Too bad Calistria isn´t good aligned^^

Thanks for the insights, that´s highly appreciated!

Enchanting Courtesan being tied so heavily to WIS made me a bit sad, but i´m looking forward to this product here now!
Too bad Calistria isn´t good aligned^^

Still grabbing it on Wizard, probably. Charm Person on a handshake is too good to pass up.

*wonders James Jacobs can travel back and forth through time*

*wonders James Jacobs can travel back and forth through time*

Just forward, alas. Otherwise I would have fixed a lot of bad decisions I've made over the years.

You and me both Mister Jacobs.

This product also let me go back to WRITING for a Player Companion, rather than developing. Taking marching orders for a writing assignment from James Jacobs was a big part of my career as of few years ago, and it was nice to briefly have that opportunity again.

He's got NEAT stuff planned for this book!

Barachiel Shina wrote:

*Sigh* We're never going to get generalized prestige classes like we did in Advanced Player's Guide, again, are we?

What about the three from Inner Sea Gods? Those were pretty general.

Yeah, rarely I can pull a Golarion-themed prestige class and actually adapt it with very little tweaking. Most of the time, the abilities and theme of their prestige classes are so heavily-tied to Golarion, that trying to adapt them to, say, my Forgotten Realms game will end up being a whole re-write of the entire PrC. Something I am not eager to do with so many other things I need to be busy with.

I wish there was more of a balance. Sure, make some Golarion-themed PrC, that is understandable. But please also make some generic ones, as well. To think the last set of them we got was from APG only shows me that they entirely abandoned prestige classes for the RPG line. Archetypes have their niche, but PrC can actually apply to more than one class, usually.

I, for example, would love to see a hardback Ultimate Prestige rpg book.

THIS! FLIPPIN HAIRY DEITIES WITH TOOTHBRUSHES THIS PAIZO! :D

The 14 prestige classes are each built with the assumption that they support one of several good deities. The deities represented by a prestige class are as follows:

Cayden Cailean
Ragathiel
Kurgess
Sarenrae
Shelyn
Ashava
Iomedae
Erastil
Milani
Soralyon
Torag
Vildeis
Desna
Pulura

And that's probably enough spoilers for now... gotta spread things out between now and the end of the year! ;-)

Ooh, Pulura, Ashava and Soralyon are favorites for me (as well as Erastil and Desna), so this looks fun!

Wish there was one for Arshea. :(

Wish there was one for Arshea. :(

You're not alone. ^_^

Wish there was a murderkillrageBURNBURNBURNKILL! PrC for Ragathiel...

Uh, there is Gor. Look at the list above. Go on. Looky. (point) (point) It's got Ragathiel listed under Cayden Cailean.

What if it's not murderkillrageBURNBURNBURNKILL, though? He'll be so heartbroken...

What if it's not murderkillrageBURNBURNBURNKILL, though? He'll be so heartbroken...

Exactly, what I am afraid is that it's going to be some hippie treehugger, not an omnicidial death machine...

Exactly, what I am afraid is that it's going to be some hippie treehugger, not an omnicidal death machine...

Wait, by hippie treehugger do you mean that a lawful good alignment or paladin based abilities are required?

An omnicidal death machine is something that kills anything and everything indiscriminately and that's not what Ragathiel is about.

His portfolio says he's domains are chivalry, righteous vengeance, and holy warfare. In a nutshell his followers are the perfect candidates for Mendev's war against the Worldwound.

I think it might be a prestige class close to the Fist of Raziel prestige class (from D&D 3.5's Book of Exalted Deeds).

Quote:

Exactly, what I am afraid is that it's going to be some hippie treehugger, not an omnicidal death machine...

Wait, by hippie treehugger do you mean that a lawful good alignment or paladin based abilities are required?

An omnicidal death machine is something that kills anything and everything indiscriminately and that's not what Ragathiel is about.

His portfolio says he's domains are chivalry, righteous vengeance, and holy warfare. In a nutshell his followers are the perfect candidates for Mendev's war against the Worldwound.

I think it might be a prestige class close to the Fist of Raziel prestige class (from D&D 3.5's Book of Exalted Deeds).

WHAT IS THIS BLASPHEMY? EVIL MUST BE PURGED! PRAISE THE EMPEROR AND PASS THE CHAINSWORD! BURN, HERETIC! THE ONLY PUNISHMENT FOR SIN IS DEATH!