| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Has anyone said what the 'Respectful Prey' feat does?You can make offerings to improve the attitudes of nonhumanoids towards you.Okay, what do you have to offer? I assume things like treasure and not your less-valued fellow members of the party.
And how does it differ from the use of social skills to make a good impression?
The offering costs 5g x CR of the creature.
It only improves one step (unless the creature makes a save) whereupon you can then start using Diplomancy like you normally would to increase it further, so a nice conversation starter.
Thank you, Rysky. You are a scholar and a gentleman.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Thank you, Rysky. You are a scholar and a gentleman.Has anyone said what the 'Respectful Prey' feat does?You can make offerings to improve the attitudes of nonhumanoids towards you.Okay, what do you have to offer? I assume things like treasure and not your less-valued fellow members of the party.
And how does it differ from the use of social skills to make a good impression?
The offering costs 5g x CR of the creature.
It only improves one step (unless the creature makes a save) whereupon you can then start using Diplomancy like you normally would to increase it further, so a nice conversation starter.
Daww, thankies :3
So, can the Possessed Hand chain of feats allow your hand to cast occult-based spells?
Also, I don't suppose there's a racial feat that gives a dhampir regeneration for a limited period of time?
@Berselius, nope and nope.
Is there any conceivable way via official rules to give your possessed hand the ability to cast spells on it's own?
On closer perusal I absolutely LOVE the coat the Changeling on p.10 is wearing.
Is it an fur coat or ostrich feather coat?
@Berselius, nope and nope.Is there any conceivable way via official rules to give your possessed hand the ability to cast spells on it's own?
No. It can do nonspell stuff on its own if you're disabled, and it can act as a familiar (crawling hand creature) with full familiar abilities if you're a spellcaster (limited to speak with master and empathic link if you're not), but no independent spell casting. Its of most use to martials by providing combat, skill, and vision enhancements, plus some actions when stunned/paralyzed/asleep, etc.
On closer perusal I absolutely LOVE the coat the Changeling on p.10 is wearing.
Is it an fur coat or ostrich feather coat?
It's a weirdly tailored coat with lots of pockets.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
@Berselius, nope and nope.Is there any conceivable way via official rules to give your possessed hand the ability to cast spells on it's own?No. It can do nonspell stuff on its own if you're disabled, and it can act as a familiar (crawling hand creature) with full familiar abilities if you're a spellcaster (limited to speak with master and empathic link if you're not), but no independent spell casting. Its of most use to martials by providing combat, skill, and vision enhancements, plus some actions when stunned/paralyzed/asleep, etc.
On closer perusal I absolutely LOVE the coat the Changeling on p.10 is wearing.It's a weirdly tailored coat with lots of pockets.Is it an fur coat or ostrich feather coat?
Isn't Scully wearing that coat? The Skeptic Investigator?
|
|
@Berselius, nope and nope.Is there any conceivable way via official rules to give your possessed hand the ability to cast spells on it's own?No. It can do nonspell stuff on its own if you're disabled, and it can act as a familiar (crawling hand creature) with full familiar abilities if you're a spellcaster (limited to speak with master and empathic link if you're not), but no independent spell casting. Its of most use to martials by providing combat, skill, and vision enhancements, plus some actions when stunned/paralyzed/asleep, etc.
On closer perusal I absolutely LOVE the coat the Changeling on p.10 is wearing.It's a weirdly tailored coat with lots of pockets.Is it an fur coat or ostrich feather coat?
POCKETS!
I just had a nice dark and creepy character idea. An Invoker Wyrmwitch that believes that the best material for his hoard are coins that have the blood and other viscera of the former owner on them, especially if it came from the killing blow.
@Berselius, nope and nope.Is there any conceivable way via official rules to give your possessed hand the ability to cast spells on it's own?
No, but only on a technicality. If you're fine with SLAs or wand casting, there are some options. The casting will always be really bad.
- First off, it can use UMD while you're unconscious in the prereq feat, so check with your GM if it can still do that without a supporting arm.- If you already have a familiar and you use it as your familiar, it doesn't lose any abilities. That means that it can take the Valet archetype, granting it the ability to cast Prestidigitation once per hour.
- If you're a Beast-Bonded Witch whose taken the hand as your familiar (requiring three feats), you can give up additional feats to grant your familiar casting through any of the feat-based casting options, such as Psychic Adept and Psychic Virtuoso (once your hand reaches a high enough Int score- the Sage archetype can help with that).
- If you're a regular Witch, you can delay your patron spells by a level to make your familiar a bloodline familiar. Shadow grants Cause Fear 1/day with a boosted HD cap (great with the Sage archetype). Trickery grants 1/day illusion cantrip from the Witch list, plus a 1st level spell at 10th and a 2nd level spell at 20th.
Pact wizard pact wizard sounds like a pretty packed pact (wizard).
So let me get this straight....
9th level caster... CHECK
Most powerful 9th level caster.....CHECK
Can now access Oracle curse and Wiches Patron....CHECK CHECK
Has extra spontaneous casting ability.... CHECK
Has extra OP abilities..... CHECK
Can stack with another OP archetype for extra hilarity... CHECK
Riiiiiiiiiighttttt........ balanced.... hmmm
Pact wizard pact wizard sounds like a pretty packed pact (wizard).
So let me get this straight....
9th level caster... CHECK
Most powerful 9th level caster.....CHECK
Can now access Oracle curse and Wiches Patron....CHECK CHECK
Has extra spontaneous casting ability.... CHECK
Has extra OP abilities..... CHECK
Can stack with another OP archetype for extra hilarity... CHECKRiiiiiiiiiighttttt........ balanced.... hmmm
Granted, you only use half your level for determining the effects of the curse, so you take some harsher penalties with fewer benefits. It's doesn't balance out just how much the archetype gives you, but the curse does probably hurt a little more than it helps.
Though the Wizard is the "god" class already, what's one more nuke in an arsenal of 10,000?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Its very poor design IMO...plain and simple. Things like this just cause more design problems.
The fact that it is SOOOO glaringly OP (without any rules strategising, minmaxing, metagaming...etc) can only lead to one conclusion... the developer let his/her own class preferences dictate the design.
I mean for God's sake they were so keen to get the thing out there, they completely overlooked the fact that there was another archetype (which it stack with BTW!!) with the same name already!!!
Bewilderingly sloppy I'm sorry to say.
I initially agreed that it was nuts, but after additional thought I'm not so sure.
Adding Witch patron spells to your spell list is kind of a non-issue because you've already got the best spell list and most of the Witch patron lists are pretty bad even when it comes to adding to the more limited Witch list. The only patron that makes a significant change is Healing, and none of those are game changing.
With the exception of Shadow patron at mid-to-high levels, spontaneous casting is similarly not a big deal. Look at the first four spell levels of the patrons and find one that has a couple of strong offensive spells that you'd want to spam in combat. I'll wait.
The double roll at level 10 and especially the +Int and metamagic reducer at level 15 are absolutely ridiculous, but you don't get them until late, and again the patron spells that you get metamagic discounts aren't generally great (except Shadow). If you're creating a level 15 Wizard it would be really hard to think of a reason not to pick this archetype (probably with Shadow patron) and go hunting high CR outsiders as you always win initiative, laugh at their SR, and only fail saves on a 1 if they somehow counterattack with a SLA.
But if you're starting at level 1 it's not as obvious a choice at all. The curse actually does hurt, and losing Scribe Scroll is a big hit to early Wizard flexibility. The loss of bonus feats later means you're not likely to be "craft everything" build, metamagic master, or have all the flexibility that Wizard feats give or cool abilities that arcane discoveries can provide.
Is it a really, really strong option? Yes. Is the level 15 ability unforgiveable? Absolutely. Is it completely indefensible that Paizo published this? No, only mostly.
Someone at gitp pointed out that you can't benefit from Possessed Hand and Hand's Sight simultaneously, which is kind of mechanically dumb even if it makes sense from a realism POV. PH requires you to attack with the hand for the bonuses, HS requires the hand to be empty if you want the darkvision and immunity to flanking.
|
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
The 1/day quick draw kinda mitigates that a bit, or if you're using a two-hander, release-look-grab.
But yeah Handsight is more preferable to Magi and Swashbucklers.
Hmm, would wearing a hand puppet be considered occupying the hand? I would have way too much fun with that.
*sticks puppet above barrier*
"... what do you mean if you had a bladder my arm would be soaked right now?!?!"
You can't get the Phantom Hand benefit from a two hander, ever.
Magi and Swashbucklers would probably rather have the +1 to damage and to hit than Hand's Sight's benefits.
Phantom Hand starts to resemble a feat tax (but the 1/day grab and skill boost aren't nothing) if you're really after Hand's Sight. Unfortunate.
Someone at gitp pointed out that you can't benefit from Possessed Hand and Hand's Sight simultaneously, which is kind of mechanically dumb even if it makes sense from a realism POV. PH requires you to attack with the hand for the bonuses, HS requires the hand to be empty if you want the darkvision and immunity to flanking.
What if you're an unarmed strike-focused monk or brawler?
|
On closer perusal I absolutely LOVE the coat the Changeling on p.10 is wearing.
It is a very cool coat, although I love the character on page 6, who, I think, is supposed to be a Pure Legion person, perhaps a Magus? (She seems to have a sword and a spellbook, although she's not wearing armor, which is a questionable tactic...)
Every book seems to have one or two pieces of art that make me want to write up characters based on them, they are so darn cool!
All I know is wizards are still squishy.
Someone at gitp pointed out that you can't benefit from Possessed Hand and Hand's Sight simultaneously, which is kind of mechanically dumb even if it makes sense from a realism POV. PH requires you to attack with the hand for the bonuses, HS requires the hand to be empty if you want the darkvision and immunity to flanking.What if you're an unarmed strike-focused monk or brawler?
Yeah, sorry, those guys are fine, as long as they say all of their attacks come from the affected hand they'll get full benefits.
I want to RolePlay that Hand Puppet.The 1/day quick draw kinda mitigates that a bit, or if you're using a two-hander, release-look-grab.
But yeah Handsight is more preferable to Magi and Swashbucklers.
Hmm, would wearing a hand puppet be considered occupying the hand? I would have way too much fun with that.
*sticks puppet above barrier*
"... what do you mean if you had a bladder my arm would be soaked right now?!?!"
Like Handy & The Human Ton (brawler) (from The Tick)?
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Anyone else think that the cover of this is really dark? It's almost black on dark purple, with a bit of dark green ghost poping out. Very hard to see what is going on here...
I find it unsettling that you can apparently keep on TWFing after your hand is removed
Only if you have a way to TWF without two hands, such as a Brawler's flurry allowing you to use just one weapon. There are also armor spikes and other weapons not held in your hand.
Every time someone talks about the hand detachment I'm reminded of this:
*shrugs*
Just because the Wizard is seen as the strongest class doesn't mean it shouldn't get any good archetypes.
It depends what you mean....
The wizard is already the strongest class and so you have to tread extremely carfeully when designing archetypes as there is by definition no need to increase the overall power level.
|
|
*shrugs*
Just because the Wizard is seen as the strongest class doesn't mean it shouldn't get any good archetypes.
It depends what you mean....
The wizard is already the strongest class and so you have to tread extremely carfeully when designing archetypes as there is by definition no need to increase the overall power level.
"Wizards are strong so they shouldn't get nice things"?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I initially agreed that it was nuts, but after additional thought I'm not so sure.
Is it a really, really strong option? Yes. Is the level 15 ability unforgiveable? Absolutely. Is it completely indefensible that Paizo published this? No, only mostly.
I've dabbled in various RPG over the years and seen things come and go. I still play a few different types. From my time playing Pathfinder, this archetype is by far the most OP I've seen released. Its almost unbelieveable. All it trades out is BONUS feats, so the wiazrd still gets the normal amount with which to play with.
It might sound a bit dramatic but I do genuinely think the release of the archetype is indefensible.
It would still be hugely OP if it didnt stack with other archtypes... the fact that it stacks with 2 others, one of them already being borderline OP is just farcical and deeply disappointing of Paizo Im sorry to say.
I was playing in a group once where one member declared that this would be the last PF campaign she played as things were getting silly in terms of a few classes just spoiling the game. She now only plays 5e.... sadly I think I may be joing her. I am just about to join a new group for a campiagn.... 2 out of the 5 are already talking about this archetype as an option. :((
Sometimes, a group can benefit a lot from dropping either full casters or just prepared full casters.
Sometimes, a group can benefit a lot from dropping either full casters or just prepared full casters.
My group doesn't care much for prepared casters. Takes too much thought/planning! :)
"Wizards are strong so they shouldn't get nice things"?*shrugs*
Just because the Wizard is seen as the strongest class doesn't mean it shouldn't get any good archetypes.
It depends what you mean....
The wizard is already the strongest class and so you have to tread extremely carfeully when designing archetypes as there is by definition no need to increase the overall power level.
That's putting words in his mouth.
|
|
That's putting words in his mouth."Wizards are strong so they shouldn't get nice things"?*shrugs*
Just because the Wizard is seen as the strongest class doesn't mean it shouldn't get any good archetypes.
It depends what you mean....
The wizard is already the strongest class and so you have to tread extremely carfeully when designing archetypes as there is by definition no need to increase the overall power level.
No it wasn't, that's pretty much what you said.
No it wasn't, that's pretty much what you said.That's putting words in his mouth."Wizards are strong so they shouldn't get nice things"?*shrugs*
Just because the Wizard is seen as the strongest class doesn't mean it shouldn't get any good archetypes.
It depends what you mean....
The wizard is already the strongest class and so you have to tread extremely carfeully when designing archetypes as there is by definition no need to increase the overall power level.
"There is by definition no need to increase the overall power level" =/= "You can't have nice things". It's just needlessly confrontational.
|
|
"There is by definition no need to increase the overall power level" =/= "You can't have nice things". It's just needlessly confrontational.No it wasn't, that's pretty much what you said.That's putting words in his mouth."Wizards are strong so they shouldn't get nice things"?*shrugs*
Just because the Wizard is seen as the strongest class doesn't mean it shouldn't get any good archetypes.
It depends what you mean....
The wizard is already the strongest class and so you have to tread extremely carfeully when designing archetypes as there is by definition no need to increase the overall power level.
Well a decrease in power would not be seen as a nice thing.
You're saying that the Wizard is a strong class that shouldn't ever be given options that are nicer than what they already have. I disagree.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Pact wizard pact wizard sounds like a pretty packed pact (wizard).
So let me get this straight....
9th level caster... CHECK
Most powerful 9th level caster.....CHECK
Can now access Oracle curse and Wiches Patron....CHECK CHECK
Has extra spontaneous casting ability.... CHECK
Has extra OP abilities..... CHECK
Can stack with another OP archetype for extra hilarity... CHECKRiiiiiiiiiighttttt........ balanced.... hmmm
I don't think I designed this archetype, but I wanted to chime in and say that a wizard getting a witch patron isn't a big deal, and it usually does little for the character.
Why?
Well, witch patrons ADD spells to your spell list, so a properly designed witch patron never includes unique spells from the witch spell list. (Its what makes designing new ones so difficult from a freelancer's perspective.) With only a couple exceptions, they typically add sorcerer/wizard spells to the witch spell list. And guess which spells YOU already have, good sir? (Note: a few add some errant cleric spells and bard spells, but those usually focus on healing or martial buffing. Things the wizard is plenty good at already.)
As for the oracle curse, when those add spells, they're from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. Otherwise they tend to give very small benefits in the form of new senses or restriction removal. Not really something you need as a wizard.
All I know is pact pact wizard is pretty pact.
All I know is pact pact wizard is pretty pact.
And not going to be PFS legal....
"There is by definition no need to increase the overall power level" =/= "You can't have nice things". It's just needlessly confrontational.Well a decrease in power would not be seen as a nice thing.
You're saying that the Wizard is a strong class that shouldn't ever be given options that are nicer than what they already have. I disagree.
Again, you're putting words in mouths. For starters, I haven't said any of that because I'm a different person. Second, since Wizards are on the top end of the power scale there's plenty of room for archetypes that strengthen one aspect at the cost of another or just shift focus in a way that might be technically weaker than a straight wizard but enables a different playstyle that an unarchetyped one couldn't pull off. For example, the Scrollmaster and Spellslinger archetypes are weaker than your standard Wizard because of their focus, but they enable new builds that I personally find more fun. Or the Undead Master from Horror Adventures which shifts focus over to necromancy without significantly boosting the power of the class beyond whatever boosts undead minionmancy grants inherently.
Well, witch patrons ADD spells to your spell list, so a properly designed witch patron never includes unique spells from the witch spell list. (Its what makes designing new ones so difficult from a freelancer's perspective.) With only a couple exceptions, they typically add sorcerer/wizard spells to the witch spell list. And guess which spells YOU already have, good sir? (Note: a few add some errant cleric spells and bard spells, but those usually focus on healing or martial buffing. Things the wizard is plenty good at already.)
The problem is that the patrons allow the Pact Wizard to snipe some select spells, such as the Endurance patron that grants Miracle at level 18 (spontaneously I might add), or the Mind patron that grants Psychic Asylum at level 10 which allows a Pact Wizard to, as a swift action, prepare his entire spell list since they also naturally get the Fast Study discovery. Throw in the stacking Exploiter archetype and he could conceivably reconfigure his entire spell list as a swift action mid-combat.
If that spell wasn't intended to work that way with Fast Study, then someone should REALLY make a post about it because that's absurdly broken.
The spell covers that. "If you're able to prepare spells, you can use the time to prepare a single spell." A normal wizard could prepare several spells in that time without taking any fast study abilities, so the intention does seem to be to limit it to a single spell.
The spell covers that. "If you're able to prepare spells, you can use the time to prepare a single spell." A normal wizard could prepare several spells in that time without taking any fast study abilities, so it's clear that you're limited to a single spell.
After resting, a wizard must study his spellbook to prepare any spells that day. If he wants to prepare all his spells, the process takes 1 hour. Preparing some smaller portion of his daily capacity takes a proportionally smaller amount of time, but always at least 15 minutes, the minimum time required to achieve the proper mental state.
Thanks to mental discipline and clever mnemonics, you can prepare all of your spells in only 15 minutes, and your minimum preparation time is only 1 minute.
Psychic Asylum mentions preparing only a single spell because normally preparing a spell takes 15 minutes, or the exact amount of time the spell "lasts".
Psychic Asylum mentions preparing only a single spell because normally preparing a spell takes 15 minutes, or the exact amount of time the spell "lasts".
Proportionally smaller with a minimum of 15 minutes means that in fifteen minutes, a Wizard would be able to prepare a quarter of their spells (and would thus love your take on the spell, leaving a quarter of their slots open to fill during combat). The spell restricts it to one, normally down from 1/4 of the total. Now it's one down from all the spells, but still just one.
Psychic Asylum mentions preparing only a single spell because normally preparing a spell takes 15 minutes, or the exact amount of time the spell "lasts".Proportionally smaller with a minimum of 15 minutes means that in fifteen minutes, a Wizard would be able to prepare a quarter of their spells (and would thus love your take on the spell, leaving a quarter of their slots open to fill during combat). The spell restricts it to one, normally down from 1/4 of the total. Now it's one down from all the spells, but still just one.
That still is something I'd want to see stated in clear text because the existing text has no line indicating what would happen if spell preparation time was decreased. That's a different thread though.