Pathfinder Player Companion: Armor Master's Handbook (PFRPG)

So... does the Armor Master's Handbook not have anything that makes using a light or heavy shield much stronger than it used to be? I kind of assumed it would.

So... does the Armor Master's Handbook not have anything that makes using a light or heavy shield much stronger than it used to be? I kind of assumed it would.

Bucklers and Tower Shields probably get the most 'transformative' changes, but there are also a lot of options for light/heavy shield users;

Shield Brace - Use a shield and two-handed weapon together
Shielded Mage - Can make somatic spell gestures with a hand holding a shield and reduces spell failure
Toppling Bash - Option to trip on a shield bash
Guarded Charge - Use shield to prevent AoO when making bull rush or overrun maneuvers.
Vanguard Style - Feat chain allows you to give 'aid another' and shield bonuses to ally reflex saves and AC within the area covered by the Combat Patrol feat. Basically, you can give defensive bonuses to your entire party in most cases.

The Shieldbearer Warpriest and Knight of Arnisant Cavalier archetypes are also primarily for light and heavy shield users.

Vanguard Style sounds pretty cool, and seems seems to be basically what people who run sword and board run sword and board to do. As long as it isn't too feat intensive it might be something I could recommend to someone looking to make a more defense oriented build.

Nice to see the contents of this Companion get some appreciation. There is a lot to like in here. The spells are very situation specific, may never use those. The Unchained material is, well, only for those who are fans of Unchained. I know I have already said this, but I really like those Shield feats and Spring-heeled style. The inside cover with the map and pictures of various armor organizations use is really cool as well.

Can someone share what the traits in this book do, please?

Can someone share what the traits in this book do, please?

Promising: Bonus to AC until first time hit that day.

All are combat traits. All but 'Permanent Scars' require some kind of armor or shield.

thanks

CBDunkerson wrote:

I continue to doubt that every effective 2HW and TWF build in existence has two feats available to spend on +2 to +7 AC. Many of them might, but you will still see plenty of builds without it.

In support of that thought: at least for certain classes, feats like Unhindering Shield are competing against some very good options which also provide (non-stacking) shield bonuses to AC. For example, consider the Advanced Weapon Training option "Defensive Weapon Training", which adds a +1+(weapon enhancement/2) shield bonus to your AC. Or the Avenger Vigilante's Shield of Blades, which adds a +1+(lvl/4) shield bonus to your AC. (Or, for that matter, the Shield spell...)

Not to mention that the AMH also introduced 'Shield Gauntlet Style' and 'Shield Brace'... which, like Unhindering Shield, make shield bonuses available to builds that were previously unable to get them.

Removed a series of posts. Folks, if you want to have a more detailed discussion about game mechanics, take it to another thread.

Removed a series of posts. Folks, if you want to have a more detailed discussion about game mechanics, take it to another thread.

You missed that post right above yours.

Ugh, why do magic abilities for Armor & Weapons always have such appallingly terrible DCs. Lens of the Dark Tapestry would be a hard sell for me at 3,000 gold, let alone almost 30,000.

Overall I do find additional defensive options to be fun, and really like the design direction of splitting the different special abilities by armor weight - I love that heavy armor can let you count as bigger for tripping/bull rushing etc.

Since my thread on the Yojimbo archetype on the advice board seems stuck on this question I will pose it here in hopes to get an answer from the developer from this book or at least an errata: does the Yojimbo qualify for Advanced Armored Training? I believe it does based on how this reads:

a yojimbo selects one type of armor, such as chain shirt or scale mail. The yojimbo gains armor training, treating his samurai level as his fighter level, when wearing the selected armor.

If you look at the prerequisites for Advanced Armor Training it states: Prerequisites: Armor training class feature, fighter level 3rd

Which the Yojimbo would qualify for as it has the armor training class feature as well as using his samurai level to be treated as fighter level while using that armor. You would simply need to be a 3rd level Yojimbo to meet the 3rd level fighter stipulation.

I believe that the yojimbo has access to advanced armor training, but not to Advanced Armor Training. ^_^

For more context to Grond's inquiry:

As I said in the other thread the yojimbo can access Advanced Armor Training at the same levels as a fighter (giving up the reduction in armor check penalty and increase in max Dex but keeping the speed bonus) at levels 7, 11, and 15.

But the yojimbo currently as written doesn't count for "fighter level 3rd" prereq for the Advanced Armor Training Combat Feat*.

The yojimbo's Armor Expertise states, "The yojimbo gains armor training, treating his samurai level as his fighter level, when wearing the selected armor."

The "treating his samurai level as his fighter level" text is in the same sentence as armor training, it's just to specify the advancement rate of armor training; and NOT meaning the Armor Expertise allows the yojimbo to count his samurai levels as fighter levels for other instances, even to get an armor-specific feat such as the Advanced Armor Training Combat Feat because it lacks wording like original flavour samurai's Weapon Expertise (or even warpriest's bonus combat feats) "his samurai levels count as fighter levels and stack with any fighter levels he possesses for the purposes of meeting the prerequisites for feats that specifically select his chosen weapon".

Also, Mark Seifter agrees that "treat your X level as your Y level for purpose A does not give you a Y level for purposes other than A. Feat prerequisites are their own purpose (several classes do treat their levels as some function of fighter levels for that purpose, like magus and warpriest)." So I concluded that the current wording of Armor Expertise doesn't grant "count as fighter" for feat prereqs unless specifically counting fighter levels for armor training purposes (which the Advanced Armor Training Combat Feat doesn't specify with current wording).

If the original author or Owen intended for the yojimbo to qualify for the Advanced Armor Training Combat Feat, then awesome as I'd love that, but til such a statement comes about I'll go with the actual reading of the feat.

* I'm bolding when mentioning the Advanced Armor Training Combat Feat because in the other thread, folks took my arguments that yojimbo gets no access to Advanced Armor Training rather than just no access to the Advanced Armor Training Combat Feat or at times it seems they're not sure if they're aware there's even a difference by not specifying if they're talking about the feat or not.

Is the Shielded Mage feat within this product meant to work in conjunction with a magus' spell combat class ability? Meaning, can a magus with that feat wield a shield of any kind (thus benefiting from its shield bonus to AC) in the free hand that is normally required for a magus to cast a spell during the full-attack action described in the magus' spell combat class feature?

As a player, I want to say "yes," but as a GM, I'm leaning towards "no." I can see the arguments for either answer (hence why I'm on the fence about it for now).

IF yes, then this feat is great for a myrmidarch magus (just marginally less so for a standard magus) once they have the required shield proficiency (easiest way is a level dip in Fighter). In any case, the feat itself probably will become a heavily favoured feat of choice for Eldritch Knights builds.

Cheers!

CB out.

[EDIT: fixed a grammatical error on the first paragraph. My bad.]

Is the Shielded Mage feat within this product meant to work in conjunction with a magus' spell combat class ability?

Shielded Mage allows the caster to use their shield hand to make somatic component gestures, but that isn't strictly the requirement for Spell Combat;

"the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components)"

So, it seems to me that Spell Combat requires some level of 'free' greater than 'able to make somatic gestures'... and thus Shielded Mage would not qualify.

Unhindering Shield, on the other hand, should work.

That is what I was thinking as well, and hence why I was leaning towards "no."

Cheers!

CB out.

What are the general opinions on the archetypes? I hear the wizard gets an armoured option?

What are the general opinions on the archetypes? I hear the wizard gets an armoured option?

No Wizard archetype, but the 'Shielded Mage' feat is pretty good for letting a Wizard or other caster use a shield without messing up their spells.

You may have been hearing about the 'Armored Battlemage' archetype, which is actually for the Magus. Basically gets Medium and Heavy armor at earlier levels, uses arcane pool to grant abilities to armor rather than a weapon, and gets the fighter Armor Training ability... but gives up Spell Combat. That last bit hurts, but can be built around.

Of the other archetypes I really like the Paladin Legate... trades Mercy for the ability to conjure armor (including barding if mounted) of different types / enchantments as needed. Given the ability to quickly change armor types they can get a lot of flexibility out of armor tricks.

I am curious as to whether anyone has worked out how the Jacket Training trait and the Spirit-Bonded armor enchantment interact with each other. Jacket Training lets you treat an armored coat as either light or medium armor, chosen from the time you put the armor on until you take it off again. The Spirit-Bonded enchantment provides bonuses whose details are irrelevant to the discussion except for the detail that this enchantment can only be placed on medium armor.

So -- does exercising the light armor option of Jacket Training turn off the Spirit-Bonded enchantment of a Spirit-Bonded Armored Coat? Or does the fact that the armor is objectively medium armor prevent that from happening?

I am curious as to whether anyone has worked out how the Jacket Training trait and the Spirit-Bonded armor enchantment interact with each other. Jacket Training lets you treat an armored coat as either light or medium armor, chosen from the time you put the armor on until you take it off again. The Spirit-Bonded enchantment provides bonuses whose details are irrelevant to the discussion except for the detail that this enchantment can only be placed on medium armor.

So -- does exercising the light armor option of Jacket Training turn off the Spirit-Bonded enchantment of a Spirit-Bonded Armored Coat? Or does the fact that the armor is objectively medium armor prevent that from happening?

The armor is still medium armor. It can only be enchanted with enchantments that can be placed on medium armor, and those continue to function despite any ability that allow you to treat it as light.

The armor is still medium armor. It can only be enchanted with enchantments that can be placed on medium armor, and those continue to function despite any ability that allow you to treat it as light.

Yep. This comes up with all kinds of option that allow armor (or weapons) to be used 'as if' they were in a different category. The answer is always that the item is unchanged and subject to the normal rules for that item type.

Question: who can use Poised/Imposing Bearing?

I'm playing a PFS Slayer focused on Thunder & Fang/Shield Slam stuff. I'm curious if these would be any good for me to take on bigger enemies.

I can't find them on the SRD yet, so I don't really know if they're a reason for me to buy this book.

Question: who can use Poised/Imposing Bearing?

They are Armor Mastery feats, so you need to be a fighter / archetype that gets Armor Training, or take Armor Focus (and possibly Improved Armor Focus) to qualify for them.

Ascalaphus wrote:

Question: who can use Poised/Imposing Bearing?

They are Armor Mastery feats, so you need to be a fighter / archetype that gets Armor Training, or take Armor Focus (and possibly Improved Armor Focus) to qualify for them.

How does that work? I just leveled to slayer 5, so I'm wondering if I should pick up the book now.

CBDunkerson wrote:

Ascalaphus wrote:

Question: who can use Poised/Imposing Bearing?

They are Armor Mastery feats, so you need to be a fighter / archetype that gets Armor Training, or take Armor Focus (and possibly Improved Armor Focus) to qualify for them.

How does that work? I just leveled to slayer 5, so I'm wondering if I should pick up the book now.

If you are familiar with Advanced Weapon Training and Weapon Mastery Feats from the Weaponmaster's Handbook then it is basically the same concept.

If not, then for a Slayer it would basically mean that you need to take the Armor Focus feat for some kind of medium armor first, and then Poised Bearing would be available at BAB +6... so next level.

Imposing Bearing is at BAB +11, but note that it also requires you to wear and be proficient with heavy armor - which would require another feat for a Slayer. Your 'Armor Focus' feat would also then have to be with a type of heavy armor.

Ah. Well, I do have room left in my build at L5/7 feats, so this is a possibility then.

Nice to see the contents of this Companion get some appreciation. There is a lot to like in here. The spells are very situation specific, may never use those. The Unchained material is, well, only for those who are fans of Unchained. I know I have already said this, but I really like those Shield feats and Spring-heeled style. The inside cover with the map and pictures of various armor organizations use is really cool as well.

It is REALLY feat intensive. Even with fighter and human and full dedication and every trick I knew, I couldn't pull it off until high level play. I had to take a level of Master of Many Styles to skip some pre-reqs. Also, Vanguard Ward seems to really not do much, so with tme Styles dip you can skip it until you have a feat to spare.

+S

And now, I have a bit of a question for Owen, if he's around here somewhere. I happened to lay my eyes on the phalanx shield, which breaks some rules (Or possibly invents some new ones) by virtue of being an adamantine tower shield. You can't actually have adamantine shields by strict RAW. It's also lighter than even mithral tower shields at 30 lbs. I'm curious as to who wrote this and possibly get some dev insight as to what the cost of the shield without the magical enhancements would be.