Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Pathfinder Unchained (OGL)

So, in the system where PC's get awesome without any big six at all, is there some downward adjustment to WBL? Because otherwise, it'd be a radical power boost to player characters.

Also, do PC's get innate deflection bonuses? Or is that particular kind of bonus transformed into something like a dodge bonus?

So, in the system where PC's get awesome without any big six at all, is there some downward adjustment to WBL? Because otherwise, it'd be a radical power boost to player characters.

Also, do PC's get innate deflection bonuses? Or is that particular kind of bonus transformed into something like a dodge bonus?

Yes and yes. What I'm interested/confused on is how would one do the scaling items and still do the innate bonuses from the big six? I guess I'll have to look at it more when I'm less tired.

That, and I gotta figure out why so many Combat Tricks say you can select this feat without needing to meet the ability score prerequisites. Like, if you have enough stamina, you can just have the feat? That goes a long way to make some of those feats useful, since they're mostly maneuvers like improved and greater steal, but it seems like an awful lot to just give us. Maybe I'm reading it wrong?

*is devouring this book, but shakes hand at the sky* Dang it, why do I have to work today?!

Thank you to donate and Lanitril for the quick answers. Just halving WBL is something I could have thought of a few years ago, but I had to make it complicated for myself. :p

I'd seriously consider replacing that deflection bonus with a dodge bonus. PC's are awesome, but getting innate deflector shields seems a bit silly.

Asking for a friend of mine:

If I subscribe to the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game series today, will I get an early PDF?

I think the spoilers I've been sending him from this thread finally pushed him over the ledge. :D

What are the limitations (if any) of the rogue's Dex to damage and free Weapon Finesse?

Thank you to donate and Lanitril for the quick answers. Just halving WBL is something I could have thought of a few years ago, but I had to make it complicated for myself. :p

I'd seriously consider replacing that deflection bonus with a dodge bonus. PC's are awesome, but getting innate deflector shields seems a bit silly.

Otoh, it does represent stormtrooper marksmanship and plot armor. ;-)

If you replace it with Dodge then the low level spells that offer Deflection bonuses would become dramatically better. Shield of Faith in particular springs to mind.

I quite like the idea of a mechanical plot armor bonus myself. ;)

Hmm someone with an RPG Sub and AP Sub has gotten their PDF ... I can feel it getting closer.

If you replace it with Dodge then the low level spells that offer Deflection bonuses would become dramatically better. Shield of Faith in particular springs to mind.

I quite like the idea of a mechanical plot armor bonus myself. ;)

Indeed, that replacement would raise AC too much when combined with the scaling bonus from shield of faith. But Unchained is all about tinkering! So I fully endorse it if you want to make it a dodge bonus but then remove the ability for PCs to gain deflection bonuses, or something like that.

What are the limitations (if any) of the rogue's Dex to damage and free Weapon Finesse?

dex to damage requires you to choose a weapon, and you only get it with that weapon, though you choose another weapon or two later.

Weapon finesse is just weapon finesse the feat.

Any new monsters?

Do we get new info on Aroden?

Are paladins of Asmodeus legal again?

Anything on Darklight Sisterhood?

Stats for gods, maybe?

I sure hope there are no robotz with lazors in there.

Beholders, finally?

What are the limitations (if any) of the rogue's Dex to damage and free Weapon Finesse?

Finesse weapons only, of course, you can't use the Dex to damage any place you'd be denied Str to damage. Also, you can only select a weapon for Dex to damage at levels 3, 11, and 19.

Hmm someone with an RPG Sub and AP Sub has gotten their PDF ... I can feel it getting closer.

I wish I knew what the order was for subscription send-outs.

Andrew Betts wrote:

Hmm someone with an RPG Sub and AP Sub has gotten their PDF ... I can feel it getting closer.

I wish I knew what the order was for subscription send-outs.

I'm sure there's some rhyme or reason to it, but it varies. I've had orders go through straight away, and then the next one I'm middle of the pack, then early, then right at the end... just try to be patient.

Any new monsters?

Do we get new info on Aroden?

Are paladins of Asmodeus legal again?

Anything on Darklight Sisterhood?

Stats for gods, maybe?

I sure hope there are no robotz with lazors in there.

Beholders, finally?

This is Pathfinder Unchained, not Golarion Unchained. This won't have any campaign specific information in it.

Thanks for the Weapon Finesse fill-ins!

Did anything change for the Unchained Rogue to allow for ranged rogues to work?

Kennesty wrote:

Andrew Betts wrote:

Hmm someone with an RPG Sub and AP Sub has gotten their PDF ... I can feel it getting closer.

I wish I knew what the order was for subscription send-outs.

I'm sure there's some rhyme or reason to it, but it varies. I've had orders go through straight away, and then the next one I'm middle of the pack, then early, then right at the end... just try to be patient.

With most books it's fairly easy to be, I'm always excited for them but never like this... this is THE BOOK.

Kudaku wrote:

If you replace it with Dodge then the low level spells that offer Deflection bonuses would become dramatically better. Shield of Faith in particular springs to mind.

I quite like the idea of a mechanical plot armor bonus myself. ;)

Indeed, that replacement would raise AC too much when combined with the scaling bonus from shield of faith. But Unchained is all about tinkering! So I fully endorse it if you want to make it a dodge bonus but then remove the ability for PCs to gain deflection bonuses, or something like that.

Making all deflection bonuses into dodge bonuses for this system would seem like the best idea for me, yes. :)

They've said in the past that the computer calculates what will be the most efficient order to that similar orders are all done at once. I've noticed most people that have said they had their PDFs were RPG only subscribers. And then recently one of them was RPG/AP Subscriber which is the same as me. Also if you added things to ship with your subscription its going to push you farther down the list because the order is more unique.

Now I don't work for Paizo but this is the way I've interpreted what has been said in the past.

interesting to note, the unchained monk needs to be lawful, the VM monk does not, although it won't gain ki strike lawful.

They've said in the past that the computer calculates what will be the most efficient order to that similar orders are all done at once. I've noticed most people that have said they had their PDFs were RPG only subscribers. And then recently one of them was RPG/AP Subscriber which is the same as me. Also if you added things to ship with your subscription its going to push you farther down the list because the order is more unique.

Now I don't work for Paizo but this is the way I've interpreted what has been said in the past.

I think that may be correct, but they also may do it regionally (US before doing Canada as it would explain why I didn't get mine with the RPG Subscriber's only.)

So if I'm understanding right actual spell casting is one of the things thats not really obtainable in the new multiclass system?

So if I'm understanding right actual spell casting is one of the things thats not really obtainable in the new multiclass system?

That is the way I interpret it.

Mark Seifter wrote:

Kudaku wrote:

If you replace it with Dodge then the low level spells that offer Deflection bonuses would become dramatically better. Shield of Faith in particular springs to mind.

I quite like the idea of a mechanical plot armor bonus myself. ;)

Indeed, that replacement would raise AC too much when combined with the scaling bonus from shield of faith. But Unchained is all about tinkering! So I fully endorse it if you want to make it a dodge bonus but then remove the ability for PCs to gain deflection bonuses, or something like that.

Making all deflection bonuses into dodge bonuses for this system would seem like the best idea for me, yes. :)

Dodge bonuses typically stack, so that won't alleviate your problem. Your best bet is to make a new type of bonus called "Prowess" or something like that, which doesn't work when denied Dex bonus (since it represents using your awesome prowess and skill to block attacks) and then convert all deflection bonuses to that.

Kevin Mack wrote:

So if I'm understanding right actual spell casting is one of the things thats not really obtainable in the new multiclass system?

That is the way I interpret it.

The witch gives cantrips. At like, I think level 11. That's really the best it gets. Otherwise, it's just really awesome supernatural/spell like abilities in the form of domains and mysteries and such.

I really do wish it gave some spells though. Even just a few.

Here's my take on a "Scarred Witch Doctor" VM.

Gains mask instead of familiar, gains hexes like the witch VM (visually hex scars), but the first hex must be scarshield. Cantrips and hexes gained this way are constitution dependent.

I hope you like it :)

Any new monsters?

Do we get new info on Aroden?

Are paladins of Asmodeus legal again?

Anything on Darklight Sisterhood?

Stats for gods, maybe?

I sure hope there are no robotz with lazors in there.

Beholders, finally?

Kind of

No

Kind of

No

No

Just flumphs

I have no eyedea what you're talking about.

At what levels do Variant Multiclass Rogues give Sneak Attack at? If you could get 2d6 prior to level... say 10, that could be pretty nice for Arcane Trickster. It capping at 4d6 at level 19 doesn't bode well, though. I would say 1d6 by level 5 is doable for the 1-dip into Snakebite Striker, but I think I'd rather just go Snakebite 1/Unchained Rogue 1/Caster X/Arcane Trickster Y and get the trait to give 2 caster levels. Keep half of your precious feats.

magnuskn wrote:

So, in the system where PC's get awesome without any big six at all, is there some downward adjustment to WBL? Because otherwise, it'd be a radical power boost to player characters.

Also, do PC's get innate deflection bonuses? Or is that particular kind of bonus transformed into something like a dodge bonus?

** spoiler omitted **

Yes, it suggests lowering WBL by one-half. It also offers an option of eliminating WBL entirely to make a campaign world where magic items are exceedingly rare: PCs get inherent bonuses as if their level were 2 higher. :)

At what levels do Variant Multiclass Rogues give Sneak Attack at?

7=1d6

Could you please tell me just one of the most gruesome informations to scare my players about the new lethal diseases'n'poisons? >:-)
Thank you!

So, I got my copy and it looks like there is nothing to stop a class from VMing with itself (unless I missed it?) which could make some archetypes more appealing :-)

I really do wish it gave some spells though. Even just a few.

We think that the abilities you do gain are usually pretty awesome and worth the feats to realize your concept, but if you want to make your own version that gives spells, feel free! It's less flavorful, but could still be functional. A spell version of, say, wizard would probably grant something like 1 wizard cantrip at 3rd, casting as if you were a 1st level wizard with no school at 7th, casting as a 2nd level wizard at 11, 3rd level wizard at 15th, 4th level wizard at 19th, or something like that. Adjust power up or down to suit your tastes!

If 3 rogues all hit the same target with sneak attack can they all apply different Debilitating Injuries or does only one apply. I assume in the instance of one applying only the most powerful applies, or whichever is the most recently applied.

Lanitril wrote:

I really do wish it gave some spells though. Even just a few.

We think that the abilities you do gain are usually pretty awesome and worth the feats to realize your concept, but if you want to make your own version that gives spells, feel free! It's less flavorful, but could still be functional. A spell version of, say, wizard would probably grant something like 1 wizard cantrip at 3rd, casting as if you were a 1st level wizard with no school at 7th, casting as a 2nd level wizard at 11, 3rd level wizard at 15th, 4th level wizard at 19th, or something like that. Adjust power up or down to suit your tastes!

Now that sounds pretty neato mosquito. I think I could get behind that kind of VMC. Might propose something like this to the rest of the table next time.

Heheh. Just trying to figure out what to VMC a Eldritch-Guardian/Mutation-Warrior/Martial-Master with. I like flavor and roleplaying for Bard, or a Wizard as proposed. Dat Barbarian looks mighty nice though. Gonna get my confusion-fu on with this one. Does anybody else not tell the other players what class they are sometimes? I think it adds to the fun.

Well thank you for all the Unchained spirit you're spreading around the board. :)

Andrew Betts wrote:

They've said in the past that the computer calculates what will be the most efficient order to that similar orders are all done at once. I've noticed most people that have said they had their PDFs were RPG only subscribers. And then recently one of them was RPG/AP Subscriber which is the same as me. Also if you added things to ship with your subscription its going to push you farther down the list because the order is more unique.

Now I don't work for Paizo but this is the way I've interpreted what has been said in the past.

I think that may be correct, but they also may do it regionally (US before doing Canada as it would explain why I didn't get mine with the RPG Subscriber's only.)

It is so complicated as to be essentially unpredictable to those looking in. (I will say that alphabetization has no part in it, though!)

Dodge bonuses typically stack, so that won't alleviate your problem. Your best bet is to make a new type of bonus called "Prowess" or something like that, which doesn't work when denied Dex bonus (since it represents using your awesome prowess and skill to block attacks) and then convert all deflection bonuses to that.

Actually, that sounds like an even better idea. I hadn't thought far enough ahead that you could stack those converted deflection bonuses. Thanks, Mark!

The new bonus probably would be called "Awesomeness". ;)

Ugh, I just go the email notification, but I don't have the PDF. I am perturbed.

I just checked your account and it should be on your My Downloads page. Try control + f or apple + f and search the page for "unchained" to help find it.

interesting to note, the unchained monk needs to be lawful, the VM monk does not, although it won't gain ki strike lawful.

I'm failing at my abbreviations at this moment, what is the VM Monk?

And I'm a bit sorry to see that the Unchained Monk still needs to be lawful. I had hoped for the possibility of an modular martial artist type Monk, who could be more in the vein of Jacky Chan characters. I guess it's back to the Brawler for those guys.

Asking for a friend of mine:

If I subscribe to the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game series today, will I get an early PDF?

I think the spoilers I've been sending him from this thread finally pushed him over the ledge. :D

If you subscribe and choose Unchained as your starting volume, you will get a free PDF when it ships. We can't *guarantee* that it will ship before the PDF becomes available for sale, but I'd say it's likely.

christos gurd wrote:

interesting to note, the unchained monk needs to be lawful, the VM monk does not, although it won't gain ki strike lawful.

I'm failing at my abbreviations at this moment, what is the VM Monk?

And I'm a bit sorry to see that the Unchained Monk still needs to be lawful. I had hoped for the possibility of an modular martial artist type Monk, who could be more in the vein of Jacky Chan characters.

Variant-Multiclassed.

Took me a while too. :-)

I'm failing at my abbreviations at this moment, what is the VM Monk?

And I'm a bit sorry to see that the Unchained Monk still needs to be lawful. I had hoped for the possibility of an modular martial artist type Monk, who could be more in the vein of Jacky Chan characters.

VM refers to the Variant Multiclassing. As to the alignment requirements, I think they wanted to leave that issue out of the base class and keep it in the alternate/no alignment options.

Ah, I see. Well, I'll have to wait for the book to gauge all the possibilities for myself. Thanks Joe and TOZ!

There will always be a Big Six, or Seven.

If you get rid of the standard Big Six and replace them with inherent bonuses, the optimizers will create a new Big Six to fill in the vacuum.

Untrue. If you remove the big 4 (because why to remove magic armors and weapons?) then every build would benefit more from different magic items instead of the same 4 for almost everyone.

Kennesty wrote:

Andrew Betts wrote:

They've said in the past that the computer calculates what will be the most efficient order to that similar orders are all done at once. I've noticed most people that have said they had their PDFs were RPG only subscribers. And then recently one of them was RPG/AP Subscriber which is the same as me. Also if you added things to ship with your subscription its going to push you farther down the list because the order is more unique.

Now I don't work for Paizo but this is the way I've interpreted what has been said in the past.

I think that may be correct, but they also may do it regionally (US before doing Canada as it would explain why I didn't get mine with the RPG Subscriber's only.)

It is so complicated as to be essentially unpredictable to those looking in. (I will say that alphabetization has no part in it, though!)

We also try to not penalize people for adding sidecart items since we do not want to discourage adding stuff to orders.

If 3 rogues all hit the same target with sneak attack can they all apply different Debilitating Injuries or does only one apply. I assume in the instance of one applying only the most powerful applies, or whichever is the most recently applied.

The penalties don't stack with themselves and only one type of penalty can be applied at a given time. A new ability will override the old one.

I mostly like the automatic bonus progression, but it has one major flaw that I think makes it completely broken, the interaction between weapon/armor attunement and specialty abilities, unless I am reading it wrong.

TL,DR: Throw out the paragraph about bought special abilities for magic weapons and armor counting against your attunement pool because its brokenly bad.

It is so complicated as to be essentially unpredictable to those looking in. (I will say that alphabetization has no part in it, though!)

I see... I guess it's time to change my name from Aaron Aardvark to my real name. :-/ It'll make credit card stuff easier at least!

What are the stamina abilities for the improved maneuver feats? I'm mostly interested in trip and grapple.