Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Pathfinder Unchained (OGL)

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Pathfinder Unchained (OGL)
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Get ready to shake up your game! Within these pages, the designers of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game unleash their wildest ideas, and nothing is safe. From totally revised fundamentals like core classes and monster design to brand-new systems for expanding the way you play, this book offers fresh ideas while still blending with the existing system. With Pathfinder Unchained, you become the game designer!

Pathfinder Unchained is an indispensable companion to the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Core Rulebook. This imaginative tabletop game builds upon more than 15 years of system development and an Open Playtest featuring more than 50,000 gamers to create a cutting-edge RPG experience that brings the all-time best-selling set of fantasy rules into a new era.

Pathfinder Unchained includes:

  • New versions of the barbarian, monk, rogue, and summoner classes, all revised to make them more balanced and easier to play.
  • New skill options for both those who want more skills to fill out their characters' backgrounds and those seeking streamlined systems for speed and simplicity.
  • Changes to how combat works, from a revised action system to an exhaustive list of combat tricks that draw upon your character's stamina.
  • Magic items that power up with you throughout your career—and ways to maintain variety while still letting players choose the "best" magic items.
  • Simplified monster creation rules for making new creatures on the fly.
  • Exotic material components ready to supercharge your spellcasting.
  • New takes on alignment, multiclassing, iterative attacks, wounds, diseases and poisons, and item creation.
  • ... and much, much more!

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-715-4

Note: This product is part of the Pathfinder Rulebook Subscription.

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Some of the suggested mechanics are worth the entire price

5/5

Automatic Bonus Progression is enough to justify the entire price of the book. Better versions of the Rogue and Monk, as well as fixes to the summoner and streamlining the barabarian seal the deal. There is a lot of other good stuff in here as well. Well worth it!


Upgraded Mechanics!

5/5

I love the idea of this book, I wish this happened more often. They took what they saw wrong with their game and spent proper time and effort to come up with proper solutions. It's pretty rare for a company to spend this much effort on tweaking things. The new proposed mechanics for combat and skills are unique and great ideas to help customize your groups' gaming experience.
I hope they release more books like this in the future. I've love for more variations for multiclassing, and I'm still waiting for a summoner archetype that removes the class summon monster ability and focuses more on the eidolon.
Highly recommend it, especially for anyone interested in how someone goes about making a gaming system. It provides awesome insights.


Fantastic product

5/5

It's been a while since it took me so long to digest a Pathfinder book, and boy, did Unchained ever keep me digesting. More optional rules than you can shake a stick at, to be implemented in modular or wholesale fashion, to tweak your game to your heart's content, and with top-notch art throughout, to boot. Excellent work by Paizo and one of their finest offerings in a while.

As for the negatives, the only thing I can really point out is that the writing can be somewhat scattershot and unfocused in a couple of reasonably complex sections, which would have benefited greatly from examples or bolded formulae.


Love The Options

5/5

This book is a great addition. Options are optional, and it's great that this book has so many. It really makes customizing a campaign easy. Of you'll like you never use every option, or likely even half of them in a single you play or run, but having them really gives you a great toolbox to use. Some people are finicky about house rules, so having an official batch of "house rules" to choose from is nice for people who prefer to stick to official products. No book is perfect, but being this book isn't really being forced on anyone (of course I suppose none of the supplements are), and that is a giant bag of options that you can pick and choose from to enhance the game, for those who'd like it enhanced, I give this product 5 stars, especially if I am comparing it to the usefulness of the average Pathfinder product.


Great Options for Pathfinder

5/5

I'm a huge fan of the rules options in Pathfinder Unchained. They do a great job of creating fixes to some of the potential issues with the Pathfinder system without upsetting the entire rule system.

I'm one of those weird people who loved playing my TWF core rogue through all 11 levels of PFS, but I have to admit that the unchained rogue is an improvement. I also actually prefer the unchained summoner to the base summoner; even though the new one may seem less powerful, it's more thematically appropriate. I'm considering playing a summoner for the first time.

I've been using some of the alternate rules systems in my Hell's Rebels campaign, and I like how they are working out. I'm using automatic bonus progression at least in part because I know some of my players like to ignore the Big 6, or spend all their gold on +6 stat items as soon as possible to the exclusion of other items. This way I know their AC is still going up, and they'll end up more balanced. I can now also let them craft---using the much more engaging dynamic item creation rules---without worrying too much about wealth by level.

Some of the rules I wouldn't personally implement. I feel like alignment affirmations will just lead to alignment arguments at the table, and in my experience, multiclassers don't need the boost from partial base attack bonus increases. But I am glad that these options exist for tables that want them.


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It's also worth noting something that almost nobody seems to have mentioned. Besides the flying kick, there's a variety of different special attacks that can be done as part of a flurry now, in place of one of your regular attacks, several of which do extra damage, many of which have a chance of debuffing your target.

The Elbow Smash has a chance of doing an extra hit, albeit doing nonlethal on the second hit. Foot Stomp can completely stop the enemy from moving away from you.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

As a side note, I am also of the opinion of shaking a fist somewhat-angrily as Paizo for attempting to once again sweep the Aeons under the rug as far as the Unchained Summoner goes. :P


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Ashram wrote:
As a side note, I am also of the opinion of shaking a fist somewhat-angrily as Paizo for attempting to once again sweep the Aeons under the rug as far as the Unchained Summoner goes. :P

I really hope they later expand the list to include all the subtypes of outsider like aeon and oni.


STAMINA questions
How do these work?

They listed all combat feats from the RPG line I heard. Is there a way to extrapolate this to combat feats beyond?

Is this accessible to Fighters only? I feel it should only be for Fighters the whole power up a feat rule.

On another note, why do the Fighters get no love again? They have almost nothing unique to them, other classes can do what they do.


Milo v3 wrote:
Ashram wrote:
As a side note, I am also of the opinion of shaking a fist somewhat-angrily as Paizo for attempting to once again sweep the Aeons under the rug as far as the Unchained Summoner goes. :P
I really hope they later expand the list to include all the subtypes of outsider like aeon and oni.

Oni seem unlikely, since they're Outsider (Native), like Rakshasas, Kami, Aasimar, Tieflings, and Fetchlings. You can't call them from the Material Plane, and they're not on any summoning list, so it doesn't make much sense to be walking around with one as a summon-buddy that disappears to another plane when it dies.

That said, this is Unchained, and you can always come up with your own, or port the spell list and use the old Eidolon to build your own Oni.


I'm looking at things to enhance my curtain Kensai with. The VMC options in particular. Whatever I choose I'd lose 5 feats but gain some special features.

If I chose Wizard, I'd take Admixture school to specialize, a familiar at 3rd level (awesome to good), gaining the ability to modify my spells to other element damage on the fly (awesome), extra damage with each Evocation spell (awesome), a cantrip as a SLA (not ideal to me), a bonus feat or an Arcane Discovery (super awesome), and the 8th level school power (okay to good).

Now the Arcane Discovery is super awesome if you build a Magus around CMB stuff. Take the Knowledge is Power discovery and that would give my Kensai +8 to his CMD, +8 to break objects, and +8 to my CMB.

Still I don't know if doing that is worth the loss of 5 feats. I hope someone can chime in and give me their opinion on it. I know I'd spend a feat on an ability to get Admixture on elemental spells and 1/2 my level in damage on evocation spells. So yeah I'd spend 2 feats on that.
Never really wanted a familiar at all though but it can be worth the feat loss for one.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Barachiel Shina wrote:

STAMINA questions

How do these work?

They listed all combat feats from the RPG line I heard. Is there a way to extrapolate this to combat feats beyond?

Is this accessible to Fighters only? I feel it should only be for Fighters the whole power up a feat rule.

On another note, why do the Fighters get no love again? They have almost nothing unique to them, other classes can do what they do.

Spend stamina to activate cool abilities when you use the feat. Some simply require that you have at least one point in the pool.

Yes, but would require a bit of work and balancing.

If you want it to be, yes. Options suggested are: feat to get a stamina pool. Fighter only. All martials. Everyone. Feel free to mix requiring the feat or giving it to characters for free.

Since fighters are the kings of (sheer quantity of) combat feats, they get the most use from a stamina pool.


It's worth noting that if you're building a new rogue there's a ton of options waiting for you in this book. A lot of very cool things.

Also it'd totally worth it for a Unchained Rogue to VMC a Magus but not worth it for a Magus to VMC a Rogue lol.

A magus can spend just one arcana to gain 3 of the 5 VMC rogue abilities as it is now. So losing 5 feats to get 4d6 sneak attack & trapfinding is totally not worth it.

An Unchained Rogue however really gets better. You have the option of taking the Extra Arcana feats. You gain 3 Arcanas, an Arcane Pool and spell strike. Spellstrike doesn't help you at all unless you take a few levels in a spellcasting class or use a Ring of Spellstoring though.

What you can get is Flamboyant Arcana and Arcane Deed Precise Strike. When that is paired with your free Weapon finesse & 3rd level Dex to damage the Rogue is now a serious combatant. Take the Familiar Arcana to gain a Flanking buddy and reap the rewards.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

I notice the VMC Fighter is kind of interesting interacting with the Arcane Duelest Bard (you just have to think it's not a bard.)

3rd level is bravery (Yawn)
5th level is bonded weapon. You can likely gain an EWP if you didn't hijink one at first level, it is one of your few feats.
7th level, you get armor training 1, it's delayed gratification, since you get Medium Armor proficiency at 10th level, but your movement won't slow down.
11th level, now you get weapon training one. you already have arcane strike, so is it gloves of striking or gloves of dueling?
15th level, armor training 2 comes online, but hey, you get heavy armor at level 16 so it's only a delay of a level.
19th level, weapon training 2
Plus the arcane duelist gets arcane strike, combat casting, disruptive, spellbreaker, penetrating strike, and greater penetrating strike as bonus feats.

Sure you lose pretty much all the fun bardic knowledge abilities, versatile performance etc. but you lost that anyway. This mix gives up feats for being a better combatant. I don't know if it's 'worth it' but it is interesting.


How does Stamina work with feats not listed in the Unchained book? Does the GM have to come up with the effects?


Matthew Morris wrote:

I notice the VMC Fighter is kind of interesting interacting with the Arcane Duelest Bard (you just have to think it's not a bard.)

3rd level is bravery (Yawn)
5th level is bonded weapon. You can likely gain an EWP if you didn't hijink one at first level, it is one of your few feats.
7th level, you get armor training 1, it's delayed gratification, since you get Medium Armor proficiency at 10th level, but your movement won't slow down.
11th level, now you get weapon training one. you already have arcane strike, so is it gloves of striking or gloves of dueling?
15th level, armor training 2 comes online, but hey, you get heavy armor at level 16 so it's only a delay of a level.
19th level, weapon training 2
Plus the arcane duelist gets arcane strike, combat casting, disruptive, spellbreaker, penetrating strike, and greater penetrating strike as bonus feats.

Sure you lose pretty much all the fun bardic knowledge abilities, versatile performance etc. but you lost that anyway. This mix gives up feats for being a better combatant. I don't know if it's 'worth it' but it is interesting.

Great find there. I'm having a blast just looking at all the options I can come up with for stuff.

Like taking an Unchained Rogue and combining VMC Alchemist with it.
Now you got bombs, take the Bomber talent and you've got more bombs, take the Bomber Discovery talent and you can enhance all your bombs from both Alchemist & Rogue talent bombs. Plus all the poison abilities.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Do the revised Rage Powers work with the Core Barbarian or are they specifically designed to work with the Unchained version?


Technotrooper wrote:
How does Stamina work with feats not listed in the Unchained book? Does the GM have to come up with the effects?

There's like 20+ pages detailing the Stamina stuff and the feats they enhance. Looking it over quickly leads me to believe that the GM will have to come up with any effects for feats not listed in the book.


Stubbs_27 wrote:
Do the revised Rage Powers work with the Core Barbarian or are they specifically designed to work with the Unchained version?

I never play Barbarians but looking at the Rage Powers it mentions things in some powers dealing with the Unchained Barb's new abilities/changes and other powers don't mention new changes in the wording, so those can be used with the CRB Barb. I'd say anything that doesn't mention new wording text for the new abilities could be used.

I hope this answers some things for you.


Did the VMC gunslinger get gun training 1, 2, some deeds and nimble?


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SimonL wrote:
Did the VMC gunslinger get gun training 1, 2, some deeds and nimble?

3rd level you gain Prof. in all firearms

7th level you gain Gunsmith class feature
11th level you gain Amateur Gunslinger feat
15th level you gain 3rd level deed of your choosing
19th you gain 7th level deed of your choice


Quote:
pick a deity get their code of conduct, once per day judgement at level penalty, stern gaze, solo tactics, eventually second judgment at the end.

wat

WAT

Are we doing the ACG thing again? How does Inquisitor VMC grant a code of conduct where Inquisitor itself allows an Inquisitor of Abadar to cheat on a contract, an Inquisitor of Calistria to go celibate, or an Inquisitor of Erastil to get his food from McDonald's?!

Seriously this thing.

Quote:

3rd level you gain Prof. in all firearms

7th level you gain Gunsmith class feature
11th level you gain Amateur Gunslinger feat
15th level you gain 3rd level deed of your choosing
19th you gain 7th level deed of your choice

So you get benefits you could get by picking feats in exchange for feats.

On another topic:

I'm still pretty giddy for this anyway.

What's the Stamina power for Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility and Spring Attack?


Eigengrau wrote:
SimonL wrote:
Did the VMC gunslinger get gun training 1, 2, some deeds and nimble?

3rd level you gain Prof. in all firearms

7th level you gain Gunsmith class feature
11th level you gain Amateur Gunslinger feat
15th level you gain 3rd level deed of your choosing
19th you gain 7th level deed of your choice

So... VMC Gunslinger is worthless then?


I'd hardly call getting all that stuff without having to dip for it "worthless" :T
At least this way it frees you up for the capstone of your regular class.

Grand Lodge

You can't normally get the 3rd and 7th level deeds with amateur gunslinger


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

And the Gunsmith class feature comes with a free gun...


Also: I have a player who would like to go with the Bard VMC for our next game, but I haven't been able to find the exact specifications on it --

I see it gives Versatile Performance, Bardic Performance, Bardic Knowledge... at which levels and with which scaling?


How many stamina points do you get? Is it based on class or character level?


Barachiel Shina wrote:
How many stamina points do you get? Is it based on class or character level?

It depends on the system you want to run. But all Stamina pools regardless of the system I think equal this: Your BAB + Con mod.

It can be increased by feats called extra Stamina

Grand Lodge

What is the name of the rogue ability that grands them their dex to damage and does it replace any of the rogue's other class features?


So is Pathfinder Unchained a book of errata? Will this book change my existing character? Or is this all completely optional variant stuff I can ignore for the time being?


Aerodus Hellcaller wrote:
What is the name of the rogue ability that grands them their dex to damage and does it replace any of the rogue's other class features?

The Unchained Rogue gets Weapon Finesse at level 1 for free, at level 3, 11 and 19 he can pick a weapon that is used with Weapon Finesse to gain Dex to damage. It replaces nothing.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Nardoz Zardoz wrote:
So is Pathfinder Unchained a book of errata? Will this book change my existing character? Or is this all completely optional variant stuff I can ignore for the time being?

If you're familiar with Unearthed Arcana, it's Pathfinders version of that. Completely optional rules.


Nardoz Zardoz wrote:
So is Pathfinder Unchained a book of errata? Will this book change my existing character? Or is this all completely optional variant stuff I can ignore for the time being?

all completely optional stuff.


What I see that's cool for a Vanguard Slayer is to VMC the Inquisitor.

You'll gain Solo Tactics at level 11. You'll also have the ability from Vanguard to share teamwork feats with allies. A slayer with Outflank, Paired Opportunists, Solo Tactics, flanking partner and the Opportunist talent with a Fortuitous weapon is crazy good.


John Lynch 106 wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Mr. Augunas's grammar skills have proven superior, and he has correctly deduced the answer you seek.

Aaah. Now that's interesting.

At level 20 a Core Rulebook monk with flurry of blows can make the following attacks:
+18/+18/+13/+13/+8/+8/+3

At level 20 an unchained monk with flurry of blows can make the following attacks:
+20/+20/+20/+15/+10/+5

A Core Rulebook monk gets 2 primary attacks, 2 secondary attacks, 2 tertiary attacks and 1 quarternary (sp?) attack.
an Unchained Monk gets 3 primary attacks, 1 secondary attack, 1 tertiary attack, 1 quarternary attack.

Now the monk is getting always turned on bonuses to his attack chain and the unchained monk may also get equivalencies that we haven't accounted for. But the flurry of blows at least traded in 1 secondary and tertiary attack for an extra primary attack and +2 to all attacks. I don't know how that washes out and I would be very interested to see what other's thoughts are when the full book gets published.

It is worth pointing out as someone mentioned earlier that 3.5e monks get the following:
+15/+15/+15/+10/+5

So in the revision from 3.5e to Pathfinder the design team 1 primary attack was worth 1 secondary attack+1 tertiary attack+a quarternary attack+a +3 bonus to all attacks. Now after 5 years of actual play experience they've potentially felt that extra primary attack was worthwhile if you make the monk a full BAB class.

its worth mentioning that one of the style strikes a monk can gain gives him an additional attack at a -5, with the two downsides that he must make a punch, and the extra attack does non lethal damage.

EDIT: I guess its not really being ninja'd if the post in question was 7 hours earlier.


JamesCooke wrote:

I'd hardly call getting all that stuff without having to dip for it "worthless" :T

At least this way it frees you up for the capstone of your regular class.
Andrew Betts wrote:
You can't normally get the 3rd and 7th level deeds with amateur gunslinger
Feros wrote:

And the Gunsmith class feature comes with a free gun...

All true, and not a single one of these, even when combined together, is worth giving up 5 feats. Especially since none of them make guns actually useable for you if you're not a true Gunslinger.

Sure, you can shoot someone with the gun, but doesn't mean you're going deal damage worth a damn. You're probably better off throwing rocks.

Hell, the 3rd and 7th level deeds aren't even that good. They're the ones no one talks about. Pistol whip someone as a standard action for 1 grit? Shoot a lock across the ground? Spend a standard action to make an enemy flatfooted for your turn, but you have no way to take advantage of it? Make a "special" full attack action, using all of your attacks, except deal less damage then if you had made a normal full attack? GG Dead Shot deed!

Nah, the VMC Gunslinger is completely worthless.


So, from what I've heard the new version of the summoner class is compatable with existing archetypes. However, how does that work with archetypes that explicitly don't summon standard outsiders? From what I remember, there are summoner types that summon spirits, fey, shadows, animals, genies and manifestations of stories.

None of those really fit very well with the outsider types that the new summoner is bound by. Is there any mention of this in the class? Do they still have to pick an outsider type when using an archetype?


After seeing this, I'd really like to see what they'd come up with if Pathfinder was totally divorced from d20.


So if one were to use VMC, could one take the Favored Class bonus of the VMC instead of what their actual class allows?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

@Tels
Not every option given by Paizo has to be optimal. If anything, just getting gun prof. and quick clear is enough to make a gun usable by any class. You've gotta keep in mind that the VMC isn't meant to be intensive. A Fighter VMC Gunslinger majors in "Fightan" and minors in "Gun". As a concept, the VMC Gunslinger is fine. If you want to gun better, there are other options, but if you just want to have a character that wields a usable gun and for all other purposes acts like their base class then VMC might be for you.

Paizo Employee Designer

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Hey guys! We're glad you're excited, and it's perfectly cool to answer questions; I've even been chatting here with you guys too. But please do not paste text from the book in this thread. I removed 4 posts that did so.


Sorry Mark. I was too lazy to type out answers to some questions.
I won't do any more pasting.

Paizo Employee Designer

No worries. We're glad you're enjoying Unchained!


Tels wrote:
JamesCooke wrote:

I'd hardly call getting all that stuff without having to dip for it "worthless" :T

At least this way it frees you up for the capstone of your regular class.
Andrew Betts wrote:
You can't normally get the 3rd and 7th level deeds with amateur gunslinger
Feros wrote:

And the Gunsmith class feature comes with a free gun...

All true, and not a single one of these, even when combined together, is worth giving up 5 feats. Especially since none of them make guns actually useable for you if you're not a true Gunslinger.

Sure, you can shoot someone with the gun, but doesn't mean you're going deal damage worth a damn. You're probably better off throwing rocks.

Hell, the 3rd and 7th level deeds aren't even that good. They're the ones no one talks about. Pistol whip someone as a standard action for 1 grit? Shoot a lock across the ground? Spend a standard action to make an enemy flatfooted for your turn, but you have no way to take advantage of it? Make a "special" full attack action, using all of your attacks, except deal less damage then if you had made a normal full attack? GG Dead Shot deed!

Nah, the VMC Gunslinger is completely worthless.

I've never played in a game with firearms, so this may be a stupid question. Would the VMC Gunslinger be a decent option if you used it to boost an archetype that already gets some Gunslinger stuff? I'm thinking of things like the Musketeer Swashbuckler or the Steel Hound Investigator.


Mark Seifter wrote:
No worries. We're glad you're enjoying Unchained!

Completely thrilled

Liberty's Edge

Is any reasoning given to the removal of the will save bonus from the Unchained monk? That seems like a terrible choice to make relating to a class that famously only has good saves as a defense.

Well back when Crane Style worked it also had high AC.


How do VMC abilities stack (or not) with abilities that you already have?

For example:

- A wizard who has a familiar and selects the Witch VMC which also grants a familiar?

- A Slayer who gets sneak attack and selects the Rogue VMC which also grants sneak attack?

Scarab Sages

Did the Major Magic rogue talent get any changes?


Emperor Point wrote:

Is any reasoning given to the removal of the will save bonus from the Unchained monk? That seems like a terrible choice to make relating to a class that famously only has good saves as a defense.

Well back when Crane Style worked it also had high AC.

It simply wasn't good design sense to have a class with full BAB, d10 HD, and good saves across the board no matter how notoriously weak the first iteration of the class was.

As for why low Will instead of, say, low Fort? Given that Pathfinder's interpretation of the Monk is focused on physical perfection, it's not unreasonable to drop will instead of the more physically-disciplined Fort and Reflex. Not all Martial Artists have a still mind, but by and large most of them are really quick and really tough.


JamesCooke wrote:

@Tels

Not every option given by Paizo has to be optimal. If anything, just getting gun prof. and quick clear is enough to make a gun usable by any class. You've gotta keep in mind that the VMC isn't meant to be intensive. A Fighter VMC Gunslinger majors in "Fightan" and minors in "Gun". As a concept, the VMC Gunslinger is fine. If you want to gun better, there are other options, but if you just want to have a character that wields a usable gun and for all other purposes acts like their base class then VMC might be for you.

Anyone can use a gun though. Picking up gun proficiency isn't hard. The Gunslinger VMC doesn't really do anything for you that person couldn't already do. Hell, a single level dip into Gunslinger does does about the same as *most* of the VMC Gunslinger does. Proficiency in firearms, quick clear, grit, and a free gun. Two more levels and you've got all 3rd level deeds instead of just one deed.

The other VMC gave access to Rage, or Weapon Training or Wild Shape, why the hell didn't the VMC Gunslinger give access to Gun Training? That's what should have been on the VMC Gunslinger, but it wasn't. Which means that, once again, the only people who really uses guns requires levels of Gunslinger to adequately pull it off.

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