What's a kami?In a nut shell, the Asian equivalent to a cross between an angel from Judo-Christian mythology and a demigod from ancient religions from places like Greece or Babylon...only unlike angels they're not always benevolent and unlike demigods they don't always work for the same higher level deity.
Kami is the divine spirit of a thing. In Shinto belief this can be pretty much anything. An odd tree or a mountain can have a kami, and this divine spirit varies in power from just a spark to godlike. A kami can also be as Bers said, a psuedo-angelic/godlike spirit. Even then that spirit is generally tied to or associated with something, whether it be an object, concept or living thing. It's so hard to actually define that out the several books on Japanese Mythology that I have read, that I have never seen any concrete "guidelines".
Creative Director
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Thanks James for explaining for why that happened (not being sarcastic)
Me and one other I know are nit-pickers of lore and will let some things slide. But not complete rewrites, if we know the original lore of the creature/Monster.
Then I suppose you nit-pick things like drow, fomorian giants, balors, and gorgons as well?
While I love RW folklore and bestiaries, there are a lot of contradictions out there. Names and descriptions are particularly fluid in monster-land. Sticking to the "canon" means eliminating a lot of this -- and if storyellers can vary the meaning of names like Puca, Dragon, Zmey, etc., then why can't Paizo?
PS. much of the "lore" on elemental spirits (Salamanders, Gnomes, Undines, and Sylphs) comes whole cloth from the Renaissance genius/charlatan Paracelsus, anyway.
Then I suppose you nit-pick things like drow, fomorian giants, balors, and gorgons as well?Thanks James for explaining for why that happened (not being sarcastic)
Me and one other I know are nit-pickers of lore and will let some things slide. But not complete rewrites, if we know the original lore of the creature/Monster.
I bolded a crital part, I do not know the origin of Drow (a name from another culture, but dark elves I know are Norse), Gorgons are Greek in origin and Medusa was one of them, Giants are more universal found in many cultures (Norse, Greek, and Jewish religions having large lists).
Balor was most likely a name of an Irish creature used to fill up the Demon line Up and act like the Balrogs from LoTR.I know Erinyes is Greek for "the angry ones" i.e. the Furies of Greek myth. Where you could of used Nephilim for the Fallen Angels, But I let it slide as I can just rename the race in the campaign.
As I said we let some things slide in some cases to fill a missing spot or if it's all their, but the name is wrong we swap it to a correct one.
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...only unlike angels they're not always benevolent...
No offense intended, but I found myself chuckling at this one - the idea that angels in myth and legend and theology are always benevolent... :)
Then I suppose you nit-pick things like drow, fomorian giants, balors, and gorgons as well?
The whole 'gorgon' thing always bugged me personally, just because the mythological gorgons are so well known... but then again the 'buckler' and 'longsword' bug me too... but not enough to bother making a song and dance about it (just enough to change stuff in homebrew campaign settings). The zero hit-dice elemental races in Bestiary 2, on the other hand, I have no issue with, so I guess it's all just individual hangups and expectations... ;)
...only unlike angels they're not always benevolent...No offense intended, but I found myself chuckling at this one - the idea that angels in myth and legend and theology are always benevolent... :)
Then I suppose you nit-pick things like drow, fomorian giants, balors, and gorgons as well?The whole 'gorgon' thing always bugged me personally, just because the mythological gorgons are so well known... but then again the 'buckler' and 'longsword' bug me too... but not enough to bother making a song and dance about it (just enough to change stuff in homebrew campaign settings). The zero hit-dice elemental races in Bestiary 2, on the other hand, I have no issue with, so I guess it's all just individual hangups and expectations... ;)
I have a post on this (the Gorgon thing).
Gorgons, like a bunch of other strange things, are derived from Gygax's love of medieval bestiaries. The bull = Gorgon thing was a medieval error he ran with.
I bolded a crital part, I do not know the origin of Drow (a name from another culture, but dark elves I know are Norse), Gorgons are Greek in origin and Medusa was one of them, Giants are more universal found in many cultures (Norse, Greek, and Jewish religions having large lists).
Balor was most likely a name of an Irish creature used to fill up the Demon line Up and act like the Balrogs from LoTR.I know Erinyes is Greek for "the angry ones" i.e. the Furies of Greek myth. Where you could of used Nephilim for the Fallen Angels, But I let it slide as I can just rename the race in the campaign.
As I said we let some things slide in some cases to fill a missing spot or if it's all their, but the name is wrong we swap it to a correct one.
I myself read up on myth and folklore constantly. I Know where most of these creatures come from "originally" and it doesn't bother me at all. I think the people at Paizo do an incredible job. I find that the balance they have between 'just like folklore' and 'customized to fit the game'.
Especially because, well, most of the monsters in myth just killed you without a saving throw. They were generally death dealing machines of eat your face and leave you corpse burning in little pieces. And the little pieces of your corpse became poisonous to the touch because that is how nasty being killed by this thing was.Or sometimes you have something like the undine, where every small community within a region had their version of the faerie water maiden, and they all pretty much did the same thing only maybe this one over here had a comb for her hair. But the nereid is a pretty good choice to be "that" creature. (Seriously, faerie creatures are especially bad for this.)
So really I guess my point is... Kudos Paizo team. And maybe people shouldn't gripe about something as minor as the name of a monster when we get to have such well done and researched material available. Especially when it's not even an iconic monster. (Hell, my group still calls it Dungeons & Dragons. The great DM in the sky has yet to strike us down.)
[...]And since we had a greater need for the four 0 HD races than we did for four more low-level fey in the book, and we DIDN'T want to duplicate the four entities, if we'd made up names for the four, then we would most likely NOT have ever used the names Undine, Oread, and Sylph for creatures at all. Certainly not in Bestiary 2.
I would like to say that at least I am extremely happy about having four zero hit Die elemental races, the more elemental-based creatures I get the better in fact :)
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Generally, we do adhere relatively close to mythology or biology when we do stats for a real world (either mythological or actual) creature..
I kinda wish that ya'll had hewed a lil closer to the actual Algonquin mythology for the wendigo, rather than the Derleth version. Although, I'm probably alone in wanting an Arcadia sourcebook more than the Tian Xia or Vudra ones (hoping for some cool skraeling stuffs).
I have a post on this (the Gorgon thing).Gorgons, like a bunch of other strange things, are derived from Gygax's love of medieval bestiaries. The bull = Gorgon thing was a medieval error he ran with.
Another spreader of truth! I have shared the Topsell link on so many forum threads it boggles the mind, a bit.
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Magnet golem -
He is a natural competitor to the rust monster. He eats metal but not as fast as a rust monster, longer than an encounter. Rust monster still sees the Magnet golem as prey. The golem can pull armor and weapons to his body by forcing a fort save. Weapons stuck to the magnet golem can not be users. People wearing armor are pined to the magnet golem's body, if the armor wearer interferes with the magnet golem's meal he'll use slam attacks to get his meal.
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Creative Director
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I kinda wish that ya'll had hewed a lil closer to the actual Algonquin mythology for the wendigo, rather than the Derleth version. Although, I'm probably alone in wanting an Arcadia sourcebook more than the Tian Xia or Vudra ones (hoping for some cool skraeling stuffs).
Generally, we do adhere relatively close to mythology or biology when we do stats for a real world (either mythological or actual) creature..
Actually, the Pathfinder wendigo has several different sources of inspiration:
Algonquin myth
Algernon Blackwood's story "The Wendigo"
The film "Ravenous"
The film "The Last Winter"
Derleth's Ithaqua was actually NOT a direct inspiration for our Wendigo—indirect, yes, but that's mostly because Derleth worked off of Algonquin myth and Blackwood's story as well.
Will Bestiary 3 contain more Youkai types than just Oni?
Will Bestiary 3 contain more Youkai types than just Oni?Yes. Lots more. And you'll probably want to pick up the 6 Jade Regent adventures too if you're starving for those kinds of new monsters.
to quote Mr Burns "Excellent."
Are there going to be new native outsider types available as player characters similar to the Aasimar and Tiefling, but aligned towards Chaos and Law?
I certainly hope there will be. Dragon Magazines Cansin are one of my very favorite races. Paizo cant use them unfortunately. I still can though =0)
I kinda wish that ya'll had hewed a lil closer to the actual Algonquin mythology for the wendigo, rather than the Derleth version. Although, I'm probably alone in wanting an Arcadia sourcebook more than the Tian Xia or Vudra ones (hoping for some cool skraeling stuffs).
Youre not. I want Arcadia badly too. But like you, I realize theres a whole lot more people who want Tian Xia and Vudra so I will have to wait
Are there going to be new native outsider types available as player characters similar to the Aasimar and Tiefling, but aligned towards Chaos and Law?Maybe some day, but it's not a high priority on our list.
And so the Chaos/Law axis gets the shaft again. I really wish those two get more attention. Maybe a future AP will revolve around a Chaos vs Law element (and a great reason to expand on more inevitables!)
I agree with you Razz, Law and Chaos need more love.
Will Yuki-Onna be present and be a zero hit die race?
Will Yuki-Onna be present and be a zero hit die race?
I'd imagine that it's too soon in the book's development for anyone to say yes or no.
Will Yuki-Onna be present and be a zero hit die race?I'd imagine that it's too soon in the book's development for anyone to say yes or no.
True, but I would not mind seeing it come true.
Will Paizo include some creatures from the post-dino age, like the saber-tooth tiger, and the wolly mammoth.
I like what I am hearing on Imperial dragons. and for the record, if you include kitsune in the racial book you may change my mind about it being a totally useless book. But I am also not very happy with Skortched Urf right now for how they are dragging their feet in making their Fursona into a real book. I have been looking over the Jade Regent adventure path and while I want more Oriental Adventures style material it's a good start for right now.
L. Frank Baum's stories are rife with RPG-worthy, chimeric monsters, like flying monkeys, sentient constructs, kalidahs, etc.
Ginger Bread golems (to play off the witch hex from Ultimate Magic), variant Rumplestiltskin-like deep gnomes/dwarves, creatures reminiscent of those found in Bitey of Brackenwood, variant giant templates that give them fable-like abilities and qualities (or just feats?), something akin to a bogey-man/monster-in-the-closet trope (granted, other monsters fit this easily enough, but something fey-like could be fun), variant hags and abilities for hags to make them more like folkloric witches (though the witch class stuff helps), The Questing Beast (and other heraldic/Arthurian monsters), etc.
I really, really love two types of monsters: those that resemble folklore and children's stories, and those that are Lovecraftian-Planescapey-Psionicsy. And I do not like to mix them. The latter sort of monsters have been done so many times in Pathfinder and in previous editions, and it seems the recent focus is on Asian-themed folklore, which is okay, but in the future I'd love to see things that are reminiscent of Oz, Neverland, Camelot, Arabian Nights, etc.
I'm also curious to see more urban monsters done right (gremlins, mimics, dopplegangers, oozes, and otyughs can stay, I suppose). Debris/ruin elementals, haunted places, cockroach/termite swarms (even if just as terrain hazards), magical alleys/sewers that alter themselves into mazelike traps, a monster version of the Guttermage (a la The Great City, because debris barrage is cool to visualize), were rats, rat lords, orphan gangs, magic doors, magic mirrors, variant gargoyles, sewerfolk (variant mermaids or lizardfolk would work), urban templates, magic cat-like critters that climb and attack in packs, a magical beast that looks like a rabid dog that can spit its foamy drool (maybe a variant goblin dog?), bridge trolls, sewer trolls, hunchbacked spire-dwelling mongrelmen, Morlocks (obciously renamed, but I'm thinking a mix between The Time Machine and the elves from Hellboy II), ancestor spirits/variant ghosts, creeping vines that eventually choke and poison everything (with some sort of sentient, sinister brain-node with spiky vine tentacles and poisoned barb-shooters?), pod people-like demons, changeling babies, Steamjacks (or their replacement), smog/ash/dung/debris/glass/etc. constructs, etc., etc.
I'd even be happy with modern fiction-inspired creatures and outsiders, like those in Neil Gaiman's Neverwhere, Daniel Quinn's The Holy, and the like. Creepy fun.
Are we going to be getting our fair share of high CR beasties in the 3rd Bestiary?
We will not know until it ships, or one of the Paizo staff answers your question.
Any new qlippoth in the Bestiary 3? I really like them, even though I know they really hate me.
Who knows?
Who knows?
The designers. ;)
I just thought it would be clever to say that I liked the qlippoth even though I know they hate me. Sadly, I was wrong. What if I said that I'm psycho for psychopomps? Yeah, that's gold.
Apologies if I missed it being mentioned, but anymore Asuras scheduled to show themselves in Bestiary 3?
If not, do any other upcoming products currently have any planned?
I want warforged, mindflayers, and beholders ^_^
Sorry, but those are WotC property.
Playable Yuki-onna or half-yuki-onna.
*Wikipedia has a few stories of Yuki-onna becoming wives and having children
If a Paizo homage to the Slenderman made it into Bestiary 3, I would be both delighted by the epicness and horrified of the epic piece of artwork that is sure to follow it.
Having compared the Monsters by CR appendices from the first two Bestiaries, I'd say the important question is: Will this book have a CR 24 creature in it?
I wonder what creatures Paizo is going to put in this Bestiary, besides the ones mentioned?
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I wonder what creatures Paizo is going to put in this Bestiary, besides the ones mentioned?Lots :)
Careful there, Russ. People will take that as a 100% certain promise, and if they discover that your "lots" isn't their "lots" they will loudly nerdrage on the forum about broken promises and failed expectations. You can never be too careful these days. ;-)
Careful there, Russ. People will take that as a 100% certain promise, and if they discover that your "lots" isn't their "lots" they will loudly nerdrage on the forum about broken promises and failed expectations. You can never be too careful these days. ;-)I wonder what creatures Paizo is going to put in this Bestiary, besides the ones mentioned?Lots :)
I don't believe "lots" to be a quantifiable volume unless you're dealing with real-estate and you mean "more than one lot." I think he's safe in making that assessment. I suppose it could be taken to mean at least two more than what have been mentioned so far though, since it's plural.
Well, I wouldn't go that far. ;)Perhaps a bevy?
A bevy? Think it can take a gazebo? I bet not.
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I wonder what creatures Paizo is going to put in this Bestiary, besides the ones mentioned?Lots :)
We finally get stats for the fearsome Alot?? Awesome.