Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Bestiary 3 (OGL)

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Bestiary 3 (OGL)
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Test your courage against the most infamous foes of myth and legend! Bestiary 3 presents hundreds of monsters for use in the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game. Within this book you’ll find demiliches and demodands, grave knights and goblin snakes, norns and nephilim, imperial dragons and unfettered eidolons, and so much more! Yet not every creature needs to be an enemy, as winged garudas, crafty tanukis, and leonine lammasus all wait to join your party and answer the call of glory.

The Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 3 is the third indispensable volume of monsters for use with the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game and serves as a companion to the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook and Pathfinder RPG Bestiary. This imaginative tabletop game builds upon more than 10 years of system development and an Open Playtest featuring more than 50,000 gamers to create a cutting-edge RPG experience that brings the all-time bestselling set of fantasy rules into the new millennium.

The Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 3 includes:

  • More than 300 different monsters
  • Classic terrors from myth and literature, from the frumious bandersnatch and the righteous valkyrie to the cunning dybbuk and elusive kappa
  • Hordes of new creatures you can construct, grow, or summon to aid your party in its adventures
  • New player-friendly races to let you adventure as canny ratfolk, genie-blooded sulis, and more
  • New familiars, animal companions, and other allies
  • Challenges for any adventure and every level of play
  • Some of the strangest and most beloved creatures from fantasy roleplaying history and the Pathfinder campaign setting
  • Hosts of new templates and variants
  • Appendices to aid in monster navigation, including lists by Challenge Rating, monster type, and habitat
  • Expanded universal monster rules to simplify special attacks, defenses, and qualities
  • ... and much, much more!

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-378-1

Errata
Last Updated - 11/10/2014

Other Resources: This product is also available on the following platforms:

Hero Lab Online
Fantasy Grounds Virtual Tabletop
Archives of Nethys

Note: This product is part of the Pathfinder Rulebook Subscription.

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A Major Contribution to the Game

5/5

The third bestiary of monsters for Pathfinder is chock-full of cool stuff. A few major themes for the book can be extracted: creatures from myth and literature (like sasquatches and valkyries), creatures with an Asian theme perfect for adventuring in Tian-Xia (such as kami and jiang-shi vampires), and the just plain really weird (like yithians and zoogs). As always with reviews of books like this, there's no way I can go through the hundreds of monsters individually, but I can say the writing and artwork is top-notch. Some particular things to note:

* The book has five new playable races: catfolk, ratfolk, suli, vanara, and vishkanya. There's always a demand for anthromorphic races like catfolk, and ratfolk later become prominent (under the name ysoki) in Starfinder. Suli don't do much for me and vishkanya are a race I've never seen played. But I do have to shout out to the monkey-like vanara, since a vanaran PC features prominently in my Curse of the Crimson Throne campaign!

* Several of the attempts from Misfit Monsters Redeemed to make goofy old monsters cool again are reprinted here, such as adherers and wolves-in-sheep's-clothing.

* Man, vulnudaemons are creepy.

* Love the artwork for animal lords--very Black Panther.

*The book introduces several new categories (sub-types) of monster: asuras (very cool concept I've never seen used), behemoths (creatures of divine vengeance on entire nations or worlds; a neat story idea), clockworks (a classic), demodands (titanspawn who hate the gods), divs (corrupted genies who strive for the ruin of all things made by mortals), imperial dragons (wingless, serpent-like dragons of Asian legend), kami (fixed-location nature spirits), kytons (creepy devils from the Plane of Shadows!), leshy (plant-like sentients), linnorms (cruel wingless dragons with a death curse), oni (evil spirits given form--the opposite of kami), rakshasa (drawn from Indian myth), sphinxes (with an interesting write-up), and thriaes (female bee-like seers). There's a real contribution to the richness of the game here, as all of these categories can then serve as the basis for rules-coherent variants introduced in later books.

All in all, Bestiary 3 is an excellent book and a smart purchase for a GM.


Another great addition to the Bestiary products

5/5

Reading through Bestiary 1 and 2, I was hoping that there will be even more eastern themed monsters. This Bestiary delivers just what I wanted! A must buy! Also, Flumph!!!


Best of the Bestiary

5/5

Bestiary 3 review is up on my blog.

This is probably my favorite of the Bestiaries so far, the content covers many iconic monsters from editions past, and stuff from the Adventure Paths. With great Asian flair for the Tian Xia world guide that is coming up, as well as many incredible monsters that have never graced the pages of a monster guide but are very welcome.


A great addition!

5/5

Although I'm generally opposed to the concept of core book "sequels," the content in 'Bestiary 3' is top notch. Whereas it took me some time to realize the usefulness of the monsters presented in 'Bestiary 2' (extraplanar/dimensional encounters rarely play a role in my campaigns), I immediately recognized many of the creatures in 'Bestiary 3' as either "iconic" or interesting variations on an established monster class.

As is to be expected, this book is well laid out and the illustrations are (mostly) top notch - Paizo rarely disappoints here! The Pathfinder Campaign Setting is still missing a few iconic monsters (mostly due to WotC's draconic licensing practices), but this volume (and the two which preceded it) gives GMs a huge variety of creatures to populate their encounters.

If I could make any suggestions for future 'Bestiary' volumes, the first would be to expand upon the lore provided - I realize it would likely halve the number of creatures included per book, but a two page spread (even for "simple" creatures like oozes) might help a GM find a place for a given creature within his campaign setting. Also, better illustrating a creature's size (perhaps even graphically) would be useful - general size classifications only go so far, and being able to see a silhouette of a given entry next to a human-sized creature would give both GMs and players a clear understanding of exactly how big a monster is (this was employed beautifully in an old FASA publication for Shadowrun: 'Paranormal Animals of North America' by Nigel Findley). Again, these are just suggestions on ways to improve an otherwise outstanding collection of Bestiaries. Keep up the good work!


Dodging the law of sequels

5/5

An excellent monster book, strong mythological presence (from various cultures). Probably even better than Bestiary 2. And it has the flumph! (this is a good thing, well its worth a page) If you're looking for a monster book for some critters outside of the real core you would well to pick this up.


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Can this bestiary have a promo poster too?


FacePalm wrote:
Golden-Esque wrote:
If a Paizo homage to the Slenderman made it into Bestiary 3, I would be both delighted by the epicness and horrified of the epic piece of artwork that is sure to follow it.
I was thinking the same thing just the other night.

...

No, No, NO! STOP IT! YOUR THOUGHTS GIVE HIM POWER!

(X)(X)
(X)
(X)(X)
(X)
(X)(X)

Scarab Sages

Anybody out there have a list of the monsters that are going to make the cut in the "Beastiary 3"? I'm drooling in anticipation of the new monsters to throw at my PC's!

Contributor

Necromancer wrote:
Can this bestiary have a promo poster too?

Done—we were waiting on our GenCon stock to come back. :)

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
deinol wrote:
Russ Taylor wrote:
Azure_Zero wrote:
I wonder what creatures Paizo is going to put in this Bestiary, besides the ones mentioned?

Lots :)

We finally get stats for the fearsome Alot?? Awesome.

I would enjoy the Alot in the Bestiary.

Liberty's Edge

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Liz Courts wrote:
Necromancer wrote:
Can this bestiary have a promo poster too?
Done—we were waiting on our GenCon stock to come back. :)

You guys had this at Gen Con and I missed that? Doh!


I'd subscribe to get this but I really don't want the Basic Beginners Box. I mean what need to I have for that?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
voska66 wrote:
I'd subscribe to get this but I really don't want the Basic Beginners Box. I mean what need to I have for that?

Wait until BB is out and subscribe with Bestiary as your next book, problem solved :)


Liz Courts wrote:
Necromancer wrote:
Can this bestiary have a promo poster too?
Done—we were waiting on our GenCon stock to come back. :)

'Was hoping for a gotta-kill-em-all chart like last time, but I'll also accept enlarged badass graveknight samurai.

Liberty's Edge

Dragnmoon wrote:
Liz Courts wrote:
Necromancer wrote:
Can this bestiary have a promo poster too?
Done—we were waiting on our GenCon stock to come back. :)
You guys had this at Gen Con and I missed that? Doh!

What didnt see it either!!!

Paizo Employee Chief Creative Officer, Publisher

FenrysStar wrote:
I like what I am hearing on Imperial dragons. and for the record, if you include kitsune in the racial book you may change my mind about it being a totally useless book. But I am also not very happy with Skortched Urf right now for how they are dragging their feet in making their Fursona into a real book. I have been looking over the Jade Regent adventure path and while I want more Oriental Adventures style material it's a good start for right now.

I am confident we will change your mind on the ARG. It's got fox people and hyena people and cat people.

Lots and lots of people.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Erik Mona wrote:
FenrysStar wrote:
I like what I am hearing on Imperial dragons. and for the record, if you include kitsune in the racial book you may change my mind about it being a totally useless book. But I am also not very happy with Skortched Urf right now for how they are dragging their feet in making their Fursona into a real book. I have been looking over the Jade Regent adventure path and while I want more Oriental Adventures style material it's a good start for right now.

I am confident we will change your mind on the ARG. It's got fox people and hyena people and cat people.

Lots and lots of people.

Gnolls?

Paizo Employee Chief Creative Officer, Publisher

I think so.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

It's a shame we'll probably never see Candlejack.

I hear he's extre-


Nodnarb wrote:
Erik Mona wrote:
FenrysStar wrote:
I like what I am hearing on Imperial dragons. and for the record, if you include kitsune in the racial book you may change my mind about it being a totally useless book. But I am also not very happy with Skortched Urf right now for how they are dragging their feet in making their Fursona into a real book. I have been looking over the Jade Regent adventure path and while I want more Oriental Adventures style material it's a good start for right now.

I am confident we will change your mind on the ARG. It's got fox people and hyena people and cat people.

Lots and lots of people.

Gnolls?

I'd assume as much myself, since gnolls = anthropomorphic hyena.

I'm just holding out for the wolf people! ;) Seriously, though the ARG sounds like it'll be magnificent.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8

Just a heads up: the Paizo 2011 Product Catalog has a sizable entry on Bestiary 3. Most of the art there's recycled, suggesting the presence of the bloodweavers introduced in Council of Thieves' bestiary and the ceratoi from Kingmaker's. There's also a double-page spread; the font's too small to read the text, but the spread is Atomie-Axebeak. Axebeak we expected to show up from the Bonus Bestiary, but the atomie is new(ly converted from the Tome of Horrors).

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Demiurge 1138 wrote:
Just a heads up: the Paizo 2011 Product Catalog has a sizable entry on Bestiary 3. Most of the art there's recycled...

...because when we built the catalog several months ago, the vast majority of the new art for the new monsters in Bestiary 3 was still being created by the artists, and thus not available for us to use in the catalog.

There's a lot of brand new monsters in Bestiary 3. The mix between old and new is, I would guess, about equivalent to Bestiary 2.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8

James Jacobs wrote:


There's a lot of brand new monsters in Bestiary 3. The mix between old and new is, I would guess, about equivalent to Bestiary 2.

Is the amount of conversions from the Tome of Horrors and the 3.5 SRD about the same, or is that going to taper off due to the best monsters already being taken?

While on the subject of asking nosy questions, is Bestiary 3 going to be assumed-core like Bestiary 2 is? By which I mean, will the modules published next year just have page references for Bestiary 3 critters, or full stat-blocks?


So. Based on promos and guesswork, I think we can conclude that these are confirmed:

Everything in the Bonus Bestiary (allip, giant ant lion, ascomoid, axe beak, caryatid column, faerie dragon, dragonne, annis hag, huecuva, lammasu, water naga, nixie, and shadow mastiff).

Savage cyclops.

Grave knight.

Kappa.

Kaiju. (Possibly a template?)

Clockwork killer. (Where's an army of horned dog-people when you need them?)

More sphinx types.

Sleipnir.

Vanara.

Demodands.

Divs.

More kytons.

Kami.

Catfolk.

Atomie.

The catalog also features images of: a water yai, a spiky crablike aberration(?) with five eyes, and some murloc-thing that looks like the offspring of an unholy union between a sahuagin and an anglerfish.


You forggot new Oni.

The art for the Faerie dragon is from kingmaker.

The anglerfish creature is called a "Ceratioidi" and is from kingmaker(rivers run red).

The aberration with five eyes is called "Ghorazagh" and is from council of thieves(mother of flies).

Paizo Employee Director of Game Development

Demiurge 1138 wrote:
.... but the atomie is new(ly converted from the Tome of Horrors).

Well, I wouldn't say it was converted from there, specifically. More like it was converted from the 1e Monster Manual II, folklore, *and* the Tome of Horrors. ;)

Shadow Lodge

Adam Daigle wrote:
Demiurge 1138 wrote:
.... but the atomie is new(ly converted from the Tome of Horrors).
Well, I wouldn't say it was converted from there, specifically. More like it was converted from the 1e Monster Manual II, folklore, *and* the Tome of Horrors. ;)

Speaking purely selfishly, as an owner of the Tome of Horrors Complete, I'd prefer if Paizo put more emphasis on the folklore and previous incarnations of any future ToH monsters they convert. That way I have more bang for my buck...both the Bestiary X version, and the ToH version.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

While there was indeed a kaiju template in Bestiary 3... it got cut. It proved to be simply too complex a monster to print even on two pages—changing size categories and then putting crazy attacks on top of that makes for some crazy CR stuff when it comes to templates.

I actually did a kaiju template back for 3rd edition in Dragon magaizne, and that single template ended up taking like 8 pages to fully do.

Which makes me feel that "kaiju" would be better served in the future as a type of magical beast rather than a template...

So... no kaiju in Bestiary 3, despite what early rumors and reports might say to the contrary.

Paizo Employee Director of Game Development

James Jacobs wrote:
So... no kaiju in Bestiary 3, despite what early rumors and reports might say to the contrary.

Awww.....but I totally see your point. At least now I don't have to wait for that template to start writing my Cloverfield in Kintargo adventure! :)


James Jacobs wrote:

While there was indeed a kaiju template in Bestiary 3... it got cut. It proved to be simply too complex a monster to print even on two pages—changing size categories and then putting crazy attacks on top of that makes for some crazy CR stuff when it comes to templates.

I actually did a kaiju template back for 3rd edition in Dragon magaizne, and that single template ended up taking like 8 pages to fully do.

Which makes me feel that "kaiju" would be better served in the future as a type of magical beast rather than a template...

So... no kaiju in Bestiary 3, despite what early rumors and reports might say to the contrary.

I have the issue with that template and I do like it. It is well done and I can see some CR issues with it, as well as the more than 2 pages needed for it in a Bestiary. But hey you can't win all the time, and crap happens every now and then.

I will miss not getting a chance to use it as an official pathfinder template for certain local deities in my home brew world. It may have another chance down the road somewhere.


I am extremely disapointed that there will be no Kaiju template in the Beastairy III. But on the other hand I would rather it never used if it cannot be a template, I have been waiting many years for an update to that template.

Shadow Lodge

James Jacobs wrote:
While there was indeed a kaiju template in Bestiary 3... it got cut. It proved to be simply too complex a monster to print even on two pages—changing size categories and then putting crazy attacks on top of that makes for some crazy CR stuff when it comes to templates.

Is there some sort of internal Paizo rule against 3+ page bestiary entires?


Dragon78 wrote:
You forggot new Oni.

Thought I'd pointed out the water yai, at least.

Quote:

The art for the Faerie dragon is from kingmaker.

The anglerfish creature is called a "Ceratioidi" and is from kingmaker(rivers run red).

The aberration with five eyes is called "Ghorazagh" and is from council of thieves(mother of flies).

Gotcha. My access to the adventure paths, unfortunately, is largely second-hand until I can buy more of them. And my ability to do that is limited until I can get a real job (in a town where those are in short supply).

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Kthulhu wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
While there was indeed a kaiju template in Bestiary 3... it got cut. It proved to be simply too complex a monster to print even on two pages—changing size categories and then putting crazy attacks on top of that makes for some crazy CR stuff when it comes to templates.
Is there some sort of internal Paizo rule against 3+ page bestiary entires?

Yes.

Especially when that means ditching other monsters from said Bestiary to make room for something that, in hindsight after we tussled with the bestiary entry, should instead be a category of monsters themselves.

I'd rather stat up Godzilla or Gamera as a unique monster than say it's a tyrannosaurus or a turtle with a template, in other words.

Kaiju have SO many diverse powers that codifying them all in a single template is kind of ridiculous, basically. Especially when that template already has to cover things like "how do you assign CR to something you just increased by 30 HD and 5 size categories?" At that point, the template starts to look more or less exactly like Appendices 1–3 of the Bestiary, which also tells me that what I'm trying to do is build specific monsters, not templates.

Kaiju as a monster? I love it! Great idea!

Kaiju as a template? Just doesn't really work—when a template itself ends up being as complicated (or more so) than the rules to just make a monster from scratch, the template is unnecessary.


I think we all would like to see godzilla statted up. Well I gues Kaiju would be to different from each other for a template to do them justice but a two page guideline would be cool.

I love the pic of the Atomie but her and axebeak pic are in the Beastairy II section not III. Were they left out of the Beastairy II's finel cut?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Dragon78 wrote:

I think we all would like to see godzilla statted up. Well I gues Kaiju would be to different from each other for a template to do them justice but a two page guideline would be cool.

I love the pic of the Atomie but her and axebeak pic are in the Beastairy II section not III. Were they left out of the Beastairy II's finel cut?

Further complicating the kaiju problem is that they're technically bigger than what a Colossal creature is; I'm pretty sure Godzilla wouldn't fit in a 30 by 30 space.

Anyway... the atomie and axebeak picture is a spread from Bestiary 3, not Bestiary 2. They were never left out of Bestiary 2 because they were never intended to go in there in the first place.


Colossal is not limited to 30 by 30 last I checked. It actually says 30+. So I don't see why you guys would be afraid to throw in a 50 ft./30 ft. or a 90 ft./40 ft. or whatever.

You'd be surprised how big our battlemaps can get. When I have to send five Huge and ten Large monsters at a high level group, you can bet there's room for at least 1 Godzilla sized beast.

Or is there some other reason we don't know of?


James Jacobs wrote:
Dragon78 wrote:

I think we all would like to see godzilla statted up. Well I gues Kaiju would be to different from each other for a template to do them justice but a two page guideline would be cool.

I love the pic of the Atomie but her and axebeak pic are in the Beastairy II section not III. Were they left out of the Beastairy II's finel cut?

Further complicating the kaiju problem is that they're technically bigger than what a Colossal creature is; I'm pretty sure Godzilla wouldn't fit in a 30 by 30 space.

Anyway... the atomie and axebeak picture is a spread from Bestiary 3, not Bestiary 2. They were never left out of Bestiary 2 because they were never intended to go in there in the first place.

Ok, I get that they're complicated, but we WANT them. In some form or another we want them. I remember reading an old Dragon Magazine that covered the same topic and I thought it was handled really well. Yes, it was more than 3 pages long but then again you are introducing a completely new mechanic in monster building so it should be given a different treatment. Is that bad? No. Take the oriental aspect out of it and you have mechanics for building spawn of Rovagug and other fun giant monsters.

Why not put it to a vote and see how many really want it? If a majority wants it and understands it will eat up a certain amount of page space then so be it.


Agreed. I'm against squeezing monsters onto one page, also. You end up doing a lot of monsters injustice, especially the high CR ones. There were a number of monsters in Bestiary 2 that deserved more special abilities but had maybe 1 or 2, even as a high CR monster. I'd rather monsters take up 2 pages if they're going to be bad ass.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Razz wrote:

Colossal is not limited to 30 by 30 last I checked. It actually says 30+. So I don't see why you guys would be afraid to throw in a 50 ft./30 ft. or a 90 ft./40 ft. or whatever.

You'd be surprised how big our battlemaps can get. When I have to send five Huge and ten Large monsters at a high level group, you can bet there's room for at least 1 Godzilla sized beast.

Or is there some other reason we don't know of?

The fact that the bigger something gets, the weirder the game mechanics get is pretty much it.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Aaron Scott 139 wrote:

Ok, I get that they're complicated, but we WANT them. In some form or another we want them. I remember reading an old Dragon Magazine that covered the same topic and I thought it was handled really well. Yes, it was more than 3 pages long but then again you are introducing a completely new mechanic in monster building so it should be given a different treatment. Is that bad? No. Take the oriental aspect out of it and you have mechanics for building spawn of Rovagug and other fun giant monsters.

Why not put it to a vote and see how many really want it? If a majority wants it and understands it will eat up a certain amount of page space then so be it.

This isn't a democracy, so votes won't help. Especially since, as Creative Director, my vote counts as like a thousand, and I want kaiju stats too. Anyone who's glanced into my office and seen the numerous Godzilla (and friends) toys perched on shelves and desktops and windowsills can see that.

But it's not something I want to do a template of anymore is mostly what I'm saying. I want them done RIGHT. I want to present them as specific types of kaiju, rather than a template, because...

1) That makes them more memorable and interesting.

2) That takes up about 7 fewer pages, which can also mean that means I can put 7 more kaiju into the book.

3) And furthermore... kaiju would make a GREAT monster type for a Mythic level book, so if we DO do that book someday, the fact that we haven't "wasted" kaiju on the lower levels could be helpful.

And folks who are disappointed that Bestiary 3 lost some Colossal monsters shouldn't fear. The behemoths alone will help scratch that itch, and they're hardly the only Colossals in Bestiary 3.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Razz wrote:
Agreed. I'm against squeezing monsters onto one page, also. You end up doing a lot of monsters injustice, especially the high CR ones. There were a number of monsters in Bestiary 2 that deserved more special abilities but had maybe 1 or 2, even as a high CR monster. I'd rather monsters take up 2 pages if they're going to be bad ass.

I actually disagree here. If it's one thing that I feel high CR monsters have plenty of... it's special abilities. Don't forget that most high CR monsters have PLENTY of them in the form of spell-like abilities and universal monster rules!

What those poor high CR monsters miss out on is the flavor text. Which is particularly lame, since things that powerful SHOULD have some pretty cool stories to go along with them.

That said, we did try to give more of the high CR monsters two pages this time around.


James Jacobs wrote:
Aaron Scott 139 wrote:

Ok, I get that they're complicated, but we WANT them. In some form or another we want them. I remember reading an old Dragon Magazine that covered the same topic and I thought it was handled really well. Yes, it was more than 3 pages long but then again you are introducing a completely new mechanic in monster building so it should be given a different treatment. Is that bad? No. Take the oriental aspect out of it and you have mechanics for building spawn of Rovagug and other fun giant monsters.

Why not put it to a vote and see how many really want it? If a majority wants it and understands it will eat up a certain amount of page space then so be it.

This isn't a democracy, so votes won't help. Especially since, as Creative Director, my vote counts as like a thousand, and I want kaiju stats too. Anyone who's glanced into my office and seen the numerous Godzilla (and friends) toys perched on shelves and desktops and windowsills can see that.

But it's not something I want to do a template of anymore is mostly what I'm saying. I want them done RIGHT. I want to present them as specific types of kaiju, rather than a template, because...

1) That makes them more memorable and interesting.

2) That takes up about 7 fewer pages, which can also mean that means I can put 7 more kaiju into the book.

3) And furthermore... kaiju would make a GREAT monster type for a Mythic level book, so if we DO do that book someday, the fact that we haven't "wasted" kaiju on the lower levels could be helpful.

And folks who are disappointed that Bestiary 3 lost some Colossal monsters shouldn't fear. The behemoths alone will help scratch that itch, and they're hardly the only Colossals in Bestiary 3.

I respect your love of Godzilla and dinosaurs. In college I specialized my Paleontological education by focusing on Therapods. A word I'm betting you know something about. I suspect we have very similarly furnished offices, but I digress. All I ask is that at some point in the future you guys PLEASE do a book or supplement for Kaiju. You want it and we want it. And hey, if it helps, maybe next time you're out this way (South Dakota) I will take you on a summer dig in the badlands.

Is that too obvious a bribe?


Aaron Scott 139 wrote:

And hey, if it helps, maybe next time you're out this way (South Dakota) I will take you on a summer dig in the badlands.

I think we're going to need something more definitive then a maybe, Mr. Scott :-P

Paizo Employee Creative Director

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Aaron Scott 139 wrote:
And hey, if it helps, maybe next time you're out this way (South Dakota) I will take you on a summer dig in the badlands.

Woah... that's one of the best bribes I've ever had.

Noted and filed for future reference.


Golden-Esque wrote:
Aaron Scott 139 wrote:

And hey, if it helps, maybe next time you're out this way (South Dakota) I will take you on a summer dig in the badlands.

I think we're going to need something more definitive then a maybe, Mr. Scott :-P

What's this "we" you speak of? :)

June through early September is when we usually dig. Years ago I used to wonder why we always went out during the hottest months of the year and dug in one of the hottest places on earth and then had it explained to me by a very kindly Professor that it was the best way to get desperate unemployed college kids with strong backs to do the really hard work.

Wise man.


James Jacobs wrote:
Razz wrote:

Colossal is not limited to 30 by 30 last I checked. It actually says 30+. So I don't see why you guys would be afraid to throw in a 50 ft./30 ft. or a 90 ft./40 ft. or whatever.

You'd be surprised how big our battlemaps can get. When I have to send five Huge and ten Large monsters at a high level group, you can bet there's room for at least 1 Godzilla sized beast.

Or is there some other reason we don't know of?

The fact that the bigger something gets, the weirder the game mechanics get is pretty much it.

Any different than a 30 by 30 space other than more opportunities for flanking and easier to hit with area spells? What are the bad mechanics to it that I don't see?


James Jacobs wrote:
3) And furthermore... kaiju would make a GREAT monster type for a Mythic level book

I think it would be awesome to see a system for "creatures as terrain" with things like "PCs as disease" (being how on the truly massive end of the scale, we're effectively little more than a biting flea, or a nasty bacteria). Imagine mass combat between two armies on top of and inside a Unicron-sized construct.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Razz wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Razz wrote:

Colossal is not limited to 30 by 30 last I checked. It actually says 30+. So I don't see why you guys would be afraid to throw in a 50 ft./30 ft. or a 90 ft./40 ft. or whatever.

You'd be surprised how big our battlemaps can get. When I have to send five Huge and ten Large monsters at a high level group, you can bet there's room for at least 1 Godzilla sized beast.

Or is there some other reason we don't know of?

The fact that the bigger something gets, the weirder the game mechanics get is pretty much it.

Any different than a 30 by 30 space other than more opportunities for flanking and easier to hit with area spells? What are the bad mechanics to it that I don't see?

1) 5-foot-steps look more and more ridiculous.

2) Calculating diagonal movement gets more and more easy to get confused with.
3) Hard to make affordable miniatures.
4) Difficult to place on a map that still works for Medium sized characters—once a map needs to be bigger than an average battlemap for a single monster to fit or move around on... lame.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Shinmizu wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
3) And furthermore... kaiju would make a GREAT monster type for a Mythic level book
I think it would be awesome to see a system for "creatures as terrain" with things like "PCs as disease" (being how on the truly massive end of the scale, we're effectively little more than a biting flea, or a nasty bacteria). Imagine mass combat between two armies on top of and inside a Unicron-sized construct.

That'd be cool, but sneaking that system into a monster description in a Bestiary is not the right way to go about it.

Liberty's Edge

Razz wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Razz wrote:

Colossal is not limited to 30 by 30 last I checked. It actually says 30+. So I don't see why you guys would be afraid to throw in a 50 ft./30 ft. or a 90 ft./40 ft. or whatever.

You'd be surprised how big our battlemaps can get. When I have to send five Huge and ten Large monsters at a high level group, you can bet there's room for at least 1 Godzilla sized beast.

Or is there some other reason we don't know of?

The fact that the bigger something gets, the weirder the game mechanics get is pretty much it.

Any different than a 30 by 30 space other than more opportunities for flanking and easier to hit with area spells? What are the bad mechanics to it that I don't see?

First one that I can think of.

I manage to make my PC or ally Colossal sized. If myself or ally is then dwarfed by something with the same mechanical benefit, then its weird.


Shinmizu wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
3) And furthermore... kaiju would make a GREAT monster type for a Mythic level book
I think it would be awesome to see a system for "creatures as terrain" with things like "PCs as disease" (being how on the truly massive end of the scale, we're effectively little more than a biting flea, or a nasty bacteria). Imagine mass combat between two armies on top of and inside a Unicron-sized construct.

That would be interesting to see.


While I know there hasn't been a definitive list or anything, I'm hoping we might see an official Ratkin species/monster from Paizo in BIII :)


James Jacobs wrote:

1) 5-foot-steps look more and more ridiculous.

Anymore ridiculous than 5-foot stepping around a field with 5+ Huge/Gargantuan/Colossal creatures at high level play? (which is pretty common if you have any hope of challenging canny PCs at those levels)

James Jacobs wrote:
2) Calculating diagonal movement gets more and more easy to get confused with.

It's one box. You move the box diagonal, which is anytime it has to cross a square from one corner to another, how is that harder than any other size?

James Jacobs wrote:
3) Hard to make affordable miniatures.

Ah, now here's the real answer I was looking for. Do we REALLY have to have minis for such a creature to begin with? Minis can't be all that profitable, are they? I don't know any GM that really uses them due to costs, using mapmaking software on computers/laptops is much simpler and cost effective these days. But that's besides the point, the point I am making is...MUST it be a mini if it exists in play? Is there a binding contract for such a thing?

James Jacobs wrote:

4) Difficult to place on a map that still works for Medium sized characters—once a map needs to be bigger than an average battlemap for a single monster to fit or move around on... lame.

Define average battlemap. Because I have had plenty of times where the PCs don't necessarily conform to the edges of the battlemap as if they were in some sort of prison demiplane. I've had to copy maps, mix the terrain a little, and connect them just in case one of them decides to run off 200+ ft. and make longbow or fireball shots, or if their 70 ft.+ monk decides to double move to lure enemies away to fight elsewhere, etc. Any DM needs to be ready when a PC "fights off the map" so to speak.

The only solid reason I see is the miniatures one, and even that's arbitrary.


Alright! The product I'v been waiting for! I only wish it was out now. :< Hurry up November!

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