Chief Technical Officer
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They will sell it individually (at $15, presumably) if they don't receive enough subscription orders to exhaust their stock prior to the first set being shipped.The black dragon is priced at a certain point. That you don't want to meet that point means either a) you wait to see if the secondary market will meet your CvB expectations or b) you do without.
It's a black dragon after all, not food, water, or shelter.
*** spoiler omitted **
REALLY???
I am well aware I can live without this mini. I was pointing out that in my opinion you shouldn't put an item up for sale when you won't sell it without bundling it with another, vastly more expensive item.And I am willing to meet the price point advertised except they won't sell this item at that price. Don't mark something at $14.99 if you have to get something for $274.99 to qualify to buy it. Bad Practice and I expect better from Paizo.
Yep. (Well, at $14.99, really...)
Yep. (Well, at $14.99, really...)
They will sell it individually (at $15, presumably) if they don't receive enough subscription orders to exhaust their stock prior to the first set being shipped.
Actually,having just read your "read this spoiler carefully" post, I think I may have misunderstood. Am I right that these won't be available individually until after the RotRL set ships? Since until then (juneish)someone may sign up for a minis subscription starting with the first set and request a black dragon?
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Chief Technical Officer
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Actually,having just read your "read this spoiler carefully" post, I think I may have misunderstood. Am I right that these won't be available individually until after the RotRL set ships? Since until then (juneish)someone may sign up for a minis subscription starting with the first set and request a black dragon?Yep. (Well, at $14.99, really...)
They will sell it individually (at $15, presumably) if they don't receive enough subscription orders to exhaust their stock prior to the first set being shipped.
You're right that that's one possible scenario. But if we run out of cases before we run out of black dragons, then we could make the remaining black dragons available before that. (That's very much a possibility, because we'll be busting open some cases for singles, and for customers who order bricks and individual boxes.)
You're right that that's one possible scenario. But if we run out of cases before we run out of black dragons, then we could make the remaining black dragons available before that. (That's very much a possibility, because we'll be busting open some cases for singles, and for customers who order bricks and individual boxes.)Actually,having just read your "read this spoiler carefully" post, I think I may have misunderstood. Am I right that these won't be available individually until after the RotRL set ships? Since until then (juneish)someone may sign up for a minis subscription starting with the first set and request a black dragon?Yep. (Well, at $14.99, really...)
They will sell it individually (at $15, presumably) if they don't receive enough subscription orders to exhaust their stock prior to the first set being shipped.
Ah yeah. Cheers.
We've added an image of the packaging.
WANT
I know its almost a month past, but is there any way to still pre-order a case and get the Black Dragon? I had to wait til now to get some holiday money saved up...
You can still start a new Pathfinder Battles Case Subscription and get the black dragon.
Just to make sure I'm absolutely clear on how it works:
I am automatically registered to order a case of every set that comes out, but before each shipment I am notified and can choose to opt out of any set. is this correct?
Not quite. You cannot opt out of a single shipment, however you can unsubscribe, then re-subscribe if you do not want a particular set, after the next set is announced.
To unsubscribe, simply do one of the following: a) Call Paizo Customer Service, b) Send an email to Paizo Customer Service, or c) Post in the Customer Service Forums that you wish to unsubscribe. When/If you want to re-subscribe then just do it yourself at the appropriate time.
If this is how it works how long does this last or would there be a way to completely opt out of every future set if I can't afford any more?
See above on how to unsubscribe.
-- david
Papa.DRB
ps. This belongs in the Customer Service Forums, and they can give you the "official Paizo Employee" answer.
Your response to Eldermoon is accurate Papa-DRB. If you ever have questions about your subscription(s), or wish to cancel, there are plenty of ways to get a hold of Customer Service. :)
Its too bad I missed this I was going to preorder a brick just to buy this dragon but I don't have the funds for an entire case. :(
Maybe in the future the premium minis could be obtained in other ways also. I would love to buy a case but I don't think I will ever be able to. I'm sure some of your other customers would want to obtain the premium minis without getting an entire case also.
I would LOVE to get the dragon mini, but there is no way I can EVER justify getting a whole case of minis, no matter how much I might want to. I am dissappointed that the only way to get the dragon mini is to get a case and I hope that it will be available in the future to those of us who are less able to buy a case. It would be a guaranteed purchase from me just as the beginner box minis were. Because I cannot purchase all minis that become available in the collection I have to carefully choose which minis I want in order to craft the miniature bestiary collection I need for the games I play. I would prioritize the black dragon mini over others in the collection for my purchase. I know that I am not the only one in this situation.
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As I said in the post above yours. They are selling singles and after things work themselves out there may be Black Dragon's available as singles. The cases they break down to sell as singles will all have a black dragon with them. Also, there is place like miniature market that may have some and I am sure there will be some available on ebay.
And Paizo is not setting up how this works. It is Wiz kids. Paizo and Wiz kids have an agreement for Wiz Kids to do Pathfinder miniatures and Paizo has some creative input but it is not their product.
In addition, local stores will be buying packs to sell. With each brick, they will likely be getting a black dragon. That means that stores that order 1-3 bricks to sell as singles will have 1-3 black dragons to sell however they choose.
In addition, local stores will be buying packs to sell. With each brick, they will likely be getting a black dragon. That means that stores that order 1-3 bricks to sell as singles will have 1-3 black dragons to sell however they choose.
One dragon per case, not brick. Four bricks to a case. For a store that orders 1-3 bricks, they will have zero dragons. A store that orders 4 bricks in case form may also obtain one dragon.
Your point is valid but the details are misleading by using the incorrect term.
In addition, local stores will be buying packs to sell. With each brick, they will likely be getting a black dragon. That means that stores that order 1-3 bricks to sell as singles will have 1-3 black dragons to sell however they choose.One dragon per case, not brick. Four bricks to a case. For a store that orders 1-3 bricks, they will have zero dragons. A store that orders 4 bricks in case form may also obtain one dragon.
Your point is valid but the details are misleading by using the incorrect term.
Right, I got the Brick and Case backwards. Sorry about that.
Should the H&M case be delayed until the early part of January will the black dragon booster arrive in januarys shipment of subscriptions or still in Decembers? (Depending on which shipping option you chose)
I don't work for Paizo, but I'd think the odds of them being separated are zero. First, I doubt Paizo will get a shipment of dragons weeks earlier than the H&M skids start showing up. Second, separation leads to vulnerability for Paizo. Since they don't charge your credit card until they ship, you could dodge your H&M case shipment entirely once you had your dragon. I'm sure there are a few people who only justified a case purchase to seal the deal on the dragon. Someone like that might be tempted to scam the system once the bonus product was in-hand.
Should the H&M case be delayed until the early part of January will the black dragon booster arrive in januarys shipment of subscriptions or still in Decembers? (Depending on which shipping option you chose)I don't work for Paizo, but I'd think the odds of them being separated are zero. First, I doubt Paizo will get a shipment of dragons weeks earlier than the H&M skids start showing up. Second, separation leads to vulnerability for Paizo. Since they don't charge your credit card until they ship, you could dodge your H&M case shipment entirely once you had your dragon. I'm sure there are a few people who only justified a case purchase to seal the deal on the dragon. Someone like that might be tempted to scam the system once the bonus product was in-hand.
Well, I wouldn't scam Paizo (or anyone), but I agree. Also, I have to admit that it was the Dragon that really made me pull the trigger on buying a whole case.
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Chief Technical Officer
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Should the H&M case be delayed until the early part of January will the black dragon booster arrive in januarys shipment of subscriptions or still in Decembers? (Depending on which shipping option you chose)I don't work for Paizo, but I'd think the odds of them being separated are zero. First, I doubt Paizo will get a shipment of dragons weeks earlier than the H&M skids start showing up. Second, separation leads to vulnerability for Paizo. Since they don't charge your credit card until they ship, you could dodge your H&M case shipment entirely once you had your dragon. I'm sure there are a few people who only justified a case purchase to seal the deal on the dragon. Someone like that might be tempted to scam the system once the bonus product was in-hand.
I fully expect that they'll arrive on the same day, if not in the very same container. But if, for some reason, they arrive separately, we'll wait to get it all before we ship.
Part of that is about the "vulnerability" issue, and part of that is about the fact that they'll have the same retail release date, and part of that is that we know people are sensitive about shipping costs, and so we'll make sure we have the opportunity to let them ship them together for the people who will save money that way.
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Well this is just awful. Initially, as was quoted in the first discussion, there was no restriction on this figure other than pre-ordering the whole box. So I save up for a couple months since I don't have that kind of cash lying around, and look what happens. They change the add so you have to do it BEFORE October 1st. Hmm, that wasn't there before in the initial add. Also originally is said one per box of minis. now, it is one per customer. Some real bad hat there Paizo. Not a good way to do business. Me and some friends who had to save up for it, since there wasn't a time limit on this save that it comes out in December, are now not allowed to buy it. They just gave me a reason to go on ebay and not give Paizo a dime due to poor advertisement.
The Oct 1 stipulation was made quite a while ago, pretty sure it was late August. The description of this mini still says one per case.
Well this is just awful. Initially, as was quoted in the first discussion, there was no restriction on this figure other than pre-ordering the whole box. So I save up for a couple months since I don't have that kind of cash lying around, and look what happens. They change the add so you have to do it BEFORE October 1st. Hmm, that wasn't there before in the initial add. Also originally is said one per box of minis. now, it is one per customer. Some real bad hat there Paizo. Not a good way to do business. Me and some friends who had to save up for it, since there wasn't a time limit on this save that it comes out in December, are now not allowed to buy it. They just gave me a reason to go on ebay and not give Paizo a dime due to poor advertisement.The Oct 1 stipulation was made quite a while ago, pretty sure it was late August. The description of this mini still says one per case.
Also, wasnt October 1 just the 'guarantee to get one' date? As I understand it, you can still preorder a case (via a subscription which you can cancel after this shipment if you want) and have the option of picking up this dragon for three or four dollars. That will become unavailable once they run out of dragons (at which point you wont be able to subscribe starting with the first shipment). It's definitely one per case not one per person, since I'm due to get multiple cases and multiple dragons.
I dont really see the problem, unless someone is looking to buy just the dragon (which was never an option as far as I remember).
Yeah, just subscribe to however many cases/dragons you need. After they're shipped, tell them you're done subscribing (or keep it on and see about the next set - and if you don't want that, you have plenty of time to cancel the subscription before they ship that stuff).
Paizo subscriptions aren't like other subscriptions where you have to commit for a whole year or so (and often have to pay in advance). You can cancel them whenever you like (unless you become addicted to the new plasticrack, of course ;-)), and you won't even have to pay until they ship the stuff.
Seeing that you'll get extra benefits over a simple pre-order (the dragon will be cheaper and you'll get a discount on singles and one encounter pack per case you get through the subscription), there really isn't a reason to not subscribe. Except maybe the "hassle" to write them to unsubscribe afterwards. And since they usually tell you in advance that they're going to do another subscription shipment (at least they do that with the books), the chances that you forget to unsubscribe before you're stuck with another shipment you didn't want aren't that high.
Oh, and you can't help to give Paizo money. They profit from every single figure that is sold - the one they sell themselves because, well, they sell them themselves, and the rest because they get royalties. Of course, they'll probably earn more if you buy directly from them.
Well this is just awful. Initially, as was quoted in the first discussion, there was no restriction on this figure other than pre-ordering the whole box. So I save up for a couple months since I don't have that kind of cash lying around, and look what happens. They change the add so you have to do it BEFORE October 1st. Hmm, that wasn't there before in the initial add. Also originally is said one per box of minis. now, it is one per customer. Some real bad hat there Paizo. Not a good way to do business. Me and some friends who had to save up for it, since there wasn't a time limit on this save that it comes out in December, are now not allowed to buy it. They just gave me a reason to go on ebay and not give Paizo a dime due to poor advertisement.
That's revisionist history, I'm afraid. The moment this was announced, Paizo was very clear that details on the Huge dragon were being worked out and never made a blanket statement that there was a 1:1 relationship between cases and dragons. The moment the details became available, they were available.
I'm sorry you didn't interpret the original announcement the way it was written, but that wasn't Paizo's lack of clarity. Hard to hear, but it's the truth.
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This whole collectible miniature thing just needs to go away. There isn't a single random-collectible miniature game in existence that has not gone belly up. And pen and paper role playing gamers are ENTIRELY the wrong demographic to market this too.
Heroclix never went belly up, Topps decided that the other Wizkids games weren't doing as well as predicted, and shut down all of wizkids at the time, but still admitted heroclix was making more $ than the others were losing, even with the licensing fees.. and people said the same thing about the comic reader demographic. That's been going for 9 years (there was a 1 year period in the middle where no new clix were released). Technically, DDM was extremely successfull and had a long 7 year presence, in an industry (collectible games) where 2-3 years is the norm (from a retailer perspective)
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I think DDM would have remained successful to this very day if (1) the quality had not dropped significantly and (2) they had focused less on fringe monsters and characters that were completely unrecognizable to many of us who have been playing for decades. Opening a box and getting, a skeleton...some weird guy with four arms lifting up some type of...blob thing?...a troll...some blue, translucent dude with blue hair--who clearly isn't human, elven, or...well, anything I care about...some type of Huge lizard that clearly isn't any type of dragon or any creature I've ever read about or find even remotely interesting...that's certainly a mixed bag for the experienced gamer. I probably have over 1,000 DDMs, most of which I picked up on the secondary market, but of the ones I bought at retail, I have an entire box relegated to "Weird Crap I'm never gonna use, but maybe some day someone will offer me some money for it." :-(
Of course, I haven't done any market research or focus groups, so this is all just conjecture, but I feel that there is probably a good deal of truth to it as well.
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Paizo subscriptions aren't like other subscriptions where you have to commit for a whole year or so (and often have to pay in advance). You can cancel them whenever you like (unless you become addicted to the new plasticrack, of course ;-)), and you won't even have to pay until they ship the stuff.
Just a +1 for that, my Paizo subscriptions wax and wane with my interest, I skipped basic box on my RPG sub because of the duty to bring it to Canada, and I've skipped other modules because I just wasn't interested. I never get flak from customer support, they just make the change with a smile.
Basically, Paizo's model fills my mailbox and ereader with awesome every month, but only the awesome I want.
I think DDM would have remained successful to this very day if (1) the quality had not dropped significantly and...
I have no doubt that the DDM line would continue to be successful if they:
1. Did not drop the paint quality.
2. Continued to support the skirmish game (I never played it, but it did provide an added reason for some people to buy them).
3. Did not mess with their marketing model. They started producing visible packs both full and partial. Minis need to be marketed as randomize non-visibles in order to mass produce the numbers required to be profitable. (I also creates a thriving secondary market for singles).
4. Did not compete with themselves. Rather than spending all that money and resources on the ill-fated Dreamblade miniatures (probably their dumbest idea), they should have just focused on the DDM line and the skirmish game.
Enjoy your pogs. I hear they're going to revolutionize the market.
iPogs? So Apple will do round things to play with with pictures on them, change them a bit, tell everyone they reinvented pogs and sue other companies that sell poker chips because people could confuse them?
iPogs? So Apple will do round things to play with with pictures on them, change them a bit, tell everyone they reinvented pogs and sue other companies that sell poker chips because people could confuse them?
Enjoy your pogs. I hear they're going to revolutionize the market.
And then next year they'll introduce the iPogs2, thereby making everyone feel like their current iPogs are obsolete and must be abandoned in favor of the new hotness...
So if I preordered my case after October 1st I will not be able to purchase this from Paizo at all?
You should still be able to get it by doing a subscription. The way i understand it, if they are offering the subscription they have enough of these to go around.
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I have no LGS, so I get most of my gaming goods from this site (the Pathfinder Advantage and the pdfs make for a very sweet deal indeed), but not living in the States means I have no access to a secondary market.
A case subscription is definitely out the question, between shipping and taxes the price would almost double, but I will be getting singles and the odd booster. But this dragon... if it becomes available on its own, how will we know? I know that if a sell date is set, I'll be refreshing every three seconds until I manage to get one.
Could there be a wait list, maybe? I know many of us would appreciate it.
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I am sure Paizo will have some sold individually.
I am also sure that miniature market will have some individually.
And of course there is ebay. I know there will be a bunch on their a short time after it is available.
In my opinion those options and probably some others are the secondary market. I do not go to a LGS and look for things like this. I might find it anyway but I do not look for it there.
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Chief Technical Officer
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Any stock we have that's not already spoken for is earmarked for people who begin Pathfinder Battle case subscriptions and start with Heroes & Monsters. If we still have black dragons left after that opportunity expires, we will offer them to the general public.
(That opportunity will expire when *either*: A) we run out out Heroes & Monsters cases, or B) we release the Rise of the Runelords set.)
I have no LGS, so I get most of my gaming goods from this site (the Pathfinder Advantage and the pdfs make for a very sweet deal indeed), but not living in the States means I have no access to a secondary market.
A case subscription is definitely out the question, between shipping and taxes the price would almost double, but I will be getting singles and the odd booster. But this dragon... if it becomes available on its own, how will we know? I know that if a sell date is set, I'll be refreshing every three seconds until I manage to get one.
Could there be a wait list, maybe? I know many of us would appreciate it.
There are some individual sites that are selling the dragon separate from the case.
For others who still might be interested in getting the case and the dragon, there are still sites that have those listed.