James Jacobs
Creative Director
|
Will the Bestiary cover the rules for ECL, will we ever see rules for ECL?
The Bestiary's first and foremost a monster book. There's a bit of rules and guidelines in a few appendixes for monstrous cohorts, additional animal companions, and a little bit about playing monster races for PCs... but it's not much more than advice for the most part. ECL and LA are not part of Pathifnder, since a system that allows players to play monsters isn't something that can be done with a simple set of modifiers. We may do a "Savage Species" style book some day that talks about playing monsters, but that'll be a separate book from the Bestiary line.
James Jacobs
Creative Director
|
Please, please do a savage species type book - need only be the size of the pathfinder chronicles and could be themed like the revisted series.
There's no way we could do this in a 64-page book unless we focused on only like 4-6 different creatures, and that would only annoy the vast majority of the folks who want a book like this since the main attraction isn't that there's just 5 more races to play but that you can, in theory, use those rules to play ANY race. Rebuilding the game so that it's balanced for a party of an elf, a minotaur, an otyugh, an awakened land-walking shark, and a lillend isn't something that a 64 page book can do justice to.
This book will more or less HAVE to be a big hardcover rulebook, and since we have a limited number of those on a schedule each year (and since there are other topics like Epic play or psionics that have even more fans waiting for their rules), it'll likely be some time before we have a chance to think about doing a Savage Species style book. Unless we receive a huge amount of feedback and requests for such a book, of course... (although that feedback and those requests would have to be pretty impressive to compete with psionics and epic and a few other topics...).
Perram
|
Cat-thulhu wrote:Please, please do a savage species type book - need only be the size of the pathfinder chronicles and could be themed like the revisted series.There's no way we could do this in a 64-page book unless we focused on only like 4-6 different creatures, and that would only annoy the vast majority of the folks who want a book like this since the main attraction isn't that there's just 5 more races to play but that you can, in theory, use those rules to play ANY race. Rebuilding the game so that it's balanced for a party of an elf, a minotaur, an otyugh, an awakened land-walking shark, and a lillend isn't something that a 64 page book can do justice to.
This book will more or less HAVE to be a big hardcover rulebook, and since we have a limited number of those on a schedule each year (and since there are other topics like Epic play or psionics that have even more fans waiting for their rules), it'll likely be some time before we have a chance to think about doing a Savage Species style book. Unless we receive a huge amount of feedback and requests for such a book, of course... (although that feedback and those requests would have to be pretty impressive to compete with psionics and epic and a few other topics...).
While I agree that a small book couldn't handle every possible monster type etc...
A book I would love to see in the Chronicles line would be a book aimed at running a party of savage races in Golarion, or just advice in running them in general. Limited in scope to the savage humanoids (many of the ones presented in Classic Monster's revisited, I would imagine) and with a strong focus on the flavor of the campaign and playing those races in a campaign all their own... it seems to be perfectly fitted for a Chronicles release.
IMHO, of course.
James Jacobs
Creative Director
|
While I agree that a small book couldn't handle every possible monster type etc...
A book I would love to see in the Chronicles line would be a book aimed at running a party of savage races in Golarion, or just advice in running them in general. Limited in scope to the savage humanoids (many of the ones presented in Classic Monster's revisited, I would imagine) and with a strong focus on the flavor of the campaign and playing those races in a campaign all their own... it seems to be perfectly fitted for a Chronicles release.
IMHO, of course.
Well... that opens an entire new can of worms, to be honest.
For a hardcover rulebook, this would be a world-neutral supplement.
If it were in the Chronicles line, it would have to be set in Golarion, since that's what the Chronicles line does. And Golarion was VERY MUCH designed to be humanocentric, to the extent that even the demihuman races like elves and dwarves are downplayed in their roles in the world from many other settings. A book that describes how to play non-human or monstrous PCs would be extremely "off-model" for Golarion—certainly none of our adventures or supplements we've been producing up until this point have bothered worrying about what it would be like if the PCs were all monsters.
Now, that doesn't mean that folks haven't done just that for their home games... but those are home games. Golarion needs to remain a stable core from which every home game evolves, and changing the perception from a humanocentric world to an "anything goes" philosophy for choosing PC races is not particularly something I want to do with Golarion.
| kyrt-ryder |
Perram wrote:While I agree that a small book couldn't handle every possible monster type etc...
A book I would love to see in the Chronicles line would be a book aimed at running a party of savage races in Golarion, or just advice in running them in general. Limited in scope to the savage humanoids (many of the ones presented in Classic Monster's revisited, I would imagine) and with a strong focus on the flavor of the campaign and playing those races in a campaign all their own... it seems to be perfectly fitted for a Chronicles release.
IMHO, of course.
Well... that opens an entire new can of worms, to be honest.
For a hardcover rulebook, this would be a world-neutral supplement.
If it were in the Chronicles line, it would have to be set in Golarion, since that's what the Chronicles line does. And Golarion was VERY MUCH designed to be humanocentric, to the extent that even the demihuman races like elves and dwarves are downplayed in their roles in the world from many other settings. A book that describes how to play non-human or monstrous PCs would be extremely "off-model" for Golarion—certainly none of our adventures or supplements we've been producing up until this point have bothered worrying about what it would be like if the PCs were all monsters.
Now, that doesn't mean that folks haven't done just that for their home games... but those are home games. Golarion needs to remain a stable core from which every home game evolves, and changing the perception from a humanocentric world to an "anything goes" philosophy for choosing PC races is not particularly something I want to do with Golarion.
Well yeah, but what he was asking for isn't necessarily anything goes, or a change in the core perceptions of Golarion. Rather, I feel he was asking for (and personally I'd love to see it as well) a Golarion Chronicles book for making that off-shoot, edge of society, type game. Don't promote it as a norm, promote it as something Golarion doesn't really accept or tolerate easily or often.
dm4hire
|
Cat-thulhu wrote:Please, please do a savage species type book - need only be the size of the pathfinder chronicles and could be themed like the revisted series.There's no way we could do this in a 64-page book unless we focused on only like 4-6 different creatures, and that would only annoy the vast majority of the folks who want a book like this since the main attraction isn't that there's just 5 more races to play but that you can, in theory, use those rules to play ANY race. Rebuilding the game so that it's balanced for a party of an elf, a minotaur, an otyugh, an awakened land-walking shark, and a lillend isn't something that a 64 page book can do justice to.
This book will more or less HAVE to be a big hardcover rulebook, and since we have a limited number of those on a schedule each year (and since there are other topics like Epic play or psionics that have even more fans waiting for their rules), it'll likely be some time before we have a chance to think about doing a Savage Species style book. Unless we receive a huge amount of feedback and requests for such a book, of course... (although that feedback and those requests would have to be pretty impressive to compete with psionics and epic and a few other topics...).
What about a 64 page book that would just show how to do it? Perhaps breaking down one or two races? It could be themed as mentioned to Chronicle style to cover perhaps the more popular monsters in a certain region where playing them might be possible. That would then meet some of the demand, but also be an effect way to judge demand. Would something like that be feasible? Maybe even just done as an article for an issue of Pathfinder?
Mark Moreland
Director of Brand Strategy
|
Simply lowering the page count of a Savage Species book wouldn't remove the need to create and balance a large and complex set of new rules for the game. I hope that when Paizo breaches this subject they do a full book that does the topic justice. They can jam a square peg into a round hole in order to get something out sooner, but I'd rather wait and get the perfect book for the niche they'd be trying to fill.
James Jacobs
Creative Director
|
What about a 64 page book that would just show how to do it? Perhaps breaking down one or two races? It could be themed as mentioned to Chronicle style to cover perhaps the more popular monsters in a certain region where playing them might be possible. That would then meet some of the demand, but also be an effect way to judge demand. Would something like that be feasible? Maybe even just done as an article for an issue of Pathfinder?
Again... I don't think that 64 pages is enough to cover this. "How to do it" is the bulk of the subject, after all. And again, if it were in the Chronicles line, it would STILL need to be Golarion themed, and I don't want to do a "Here's how to play unusual monsters as PCs book" in this line at all. It's not what Golarion's about.
The only place a book like this can work, really, is in the core rules line, where it'll both have enough space to do the job right instead of only half-assed, and where the rules can be world-neutral so that they can not only serve for ANY game, but don't seem to be saying "This is all cool in Golarion."
Vic Wertz
Chief Technical Officer
|
If I have missed the post in this thread, I apologize. Has there been any specific mention as to how much the PDF version will cost when released? I was wondering whether something special would be done akin to the price point that was done for the core rulebook when it was released back in August.
We have not announced the PDF price yet. Ask again in about a week.
Cralius the Dark
|
I just received an e-mail from Paizoland, saying my Bestiary will be shipped "in the next week or so."
/glee :D
Yeah, got mine too. In the same order are the two chronicles too (Princes of the Damned and Seeker of Secrets).
Speaking of those two, if the Bestiary was slated for Mid-October and the two Chronicles were slated for early October are those two products sitting in the warehouse right now ready to go?
thenorthman
|
REFRESH!
REFRESH!
REFRESH!
Oh so soon....
October 2009
1x Ultimate Toolbox
1x Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Bestiary (OGL) Hardcover
1x GameMastery Map Pack: Waterfront
1x GameMastery Map Pack: Extradimensional Spaces
1x Pathfinder Chronicles: Seekers of Secrets—A Guide to the Pathfinder Society (PFRPG)
1x Pathfinder Chronicles: Princes of Darkness—Book of the Damned Volume 1 (PFRPG) Print Edition
1x Dr. Wizard's Patented Elevation Indicator Huge Extender
This is what is coming in this order!!!! (Rubbing Hand vigorously)
Might be adding some Miniatures....
Kevida
|
Please, please do a savage species type book - need only be the size of the pathfinder chronicles and could be themed like the revisted series.
[thread jack]
On a totally unrelated note, Cat-thulhu, are you the same Kthulhu from the Kenzer and Co. boards who used an avatar that was a cross between Cthulhlu and Hello Kitty? If so then yes I am the same Kevida that used R. Lee Ermey as mine! [/threadjack]| Gamer Girrl RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32 |
Huh, when should they be sending e-mails for the PFRPG Bestiary? Because if it is now or soonish I did not get a e-mail. I will keep looking!
It can take a few days or more before all the emails get out. I often posit that they have a randomizer on the email, so that different folks get their message first on different shipments, just to keep us all guessing :)
| AJCarrington |
I just received an e-mail from Paizoland, saying my Bestiary will be shipped "in the next week or so."
/glee :D
Lucky @@$!@!@^^&%#@#@$... ;)
I suspect (hope) that mine's being held for the monthly shipment - now all we need to do is get those Pathfinder Chronicles books in and we're set to go.
AJC
| MRblahface |
Jason Sonia wrote:Can I haz my beastiary nowz??At least he spelled Paizo right...
Well that's how cats talk, they talk in LOLspeak. :)
Jason Sonia
|
Jason Sonia wrote:Can I haz my beastiary nowz??At least he spelled Paizo right...
Fortunately, I speak excellent English. Can't speak highly for the lolcatz command of the language, however. ;)
Aberzombie
|
Aberzombie wrote:My order history is now showing the Bestiary due in November! Huh? I thought it was supposed to be October!We'll ship preorders and subscriber copies in October—the retail release date is early November.
But I thought I did pre-order. Isn't ordering in May 2009 a pre-order?
Lisa Stevens
CEO
|
It's November 18th for my pre-order on Amazon. Not that surprised me though as I still haven't got my pre-ordered core book yet. Says it supposed to ship tomorrow though but I'll believe that when I see it.
Since we will just be getting the Bestiary into our own warehouse today, if Amazon can ship yours out tomorrow, they have some type of time manipulation machine and I want in!
-Lisa
Lisa Stevens
CEO
|
Vic Wertz wrote:But I thought I did pre-order. Isn't ordering in May 2009 a pre-order?Aberzombie wrote:My order history is now showing the Bestiary due in November! Huh? I thought it was supposed to be October!We'll ship preorders and subscriber copies in October—the retail release date is early November.
If you have a preorder through paizo.com, we will more than likely be shipping your Bestiary out next week unless you gave us other instructions, such as waiting to ship it with the next Adventure Path volume, which won't be here until early November.
-Lisa
Mark Moreland
Director of Brand Strategy
|
Since we will just be getting the Bestiary into our own warehouse today, if Amazon can ship yours out tomorrow, they have some type of time manipulation machine and I want in!
-Lisa
Warehouse gets Bestiary ... today. Subscribers start to see shipment emails (and pdfs) ... tomorrow?
| MerrikCale |
voska66 wrote:It's November 18th for my pre-order on Amazon. Not that surprised me though as I still haven't got my pre-ordered core book yet. Says it supposed to ship tomorrow though but I'll believe that when I see it.
Since we will just be getting the Bestiary into our own warehouse today, if Amazon can ship yours out tomorrow, they have some type of time manipulation machine and I want in!
-Lisa
Yipppeeeee
We are almost there
Andrew Betts
|
My Second Darkness session hopes this to be true.
Lisa Stevens wrote:Warehouse gets Bestiary ... today. Subscribers start to see shipment emails (and pdfs) ... tomorrow?Since we will just be getting the Bestiary into our own warehouse today, if Amazon can ship yours out tomorrow, they have some type of time manipulation machine and I want in!
-Lisa
thenorthman
|
Got my notice.....wow it is to easy to keep adding to the subscription order....$278 being charged...oh well got some good stuff coming!!!
Sean
Do not get me wrong not complainning about the ability to add. Just didn't really notice that I kept ordering stuff and adding. Of course the display boxes of Hero's Hoard and Relic of war added a lot to the order.