Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Bestiary (OGL)

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Bestiary (OGL)
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Here there be monsters!

What is a hero without monsters to vanquish? This 328-page book presents hundreds of different creatures for use in the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game. Within this tome you'll find fire-breathing dragons and blood-drinking vampires, vile demons and shapechanging werewolves, sadistic goblins and lumbering giants, and so much more! Yet not all the creatures in this book are enemies, for some can serve lucky heroes as allies or advisors, be they summoned angels or capricious nymphs. And it doesn't stop there—with full rules for advancing monsters, adapting monsters to different roles, and designing your own unique creations, you'll never be without a band of hideous minions again!

The Pathfinder RPG Bestiary is the must-have companion volume to the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook. This imaginative tabletop game builds upon more than 10 years of system development and an Open Playtest featuring more than 50,000 gamers to create a cutting-edge RPG experience that brings the all-time best-selling set of fantasy rules into the new millennium.

The Pathfinder RPG Bestiary includes:

  • More than 350 different monsters
  • Dozens of monstrous variants to modify creatures and keep players on their toes
  • Numerous lists of monsters to aid in navigation, including lists by Challenge Rating, monster type, and habitat
  • Extensive rules for creating effective and balanced monsters
  • Rules for advancing monsters by hit dice, template, or class level
  • Universal monster rules to simplify special attacks, defenses, and qualities like breath weapons, damage reduction, and regeneration
  • More than a dozen feats tailored especially for monsters
  • Suggestions for monstrous cohorts
  • Two dozen additional animal companions
  • More than a dozen different wandering monster encounter tables
  • ... and much, much more!

Available Formats

The Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Bestiary is available as:

Hardcover ISBN: 978-1-60125-183-1

Errata
Last Updated - 9/12/2011

Other Resources: This product is also available on the following platforms:

Hero Lab Online
Fantasy Grounds Virtual Tabletop
Roll20 Virtual Tabletop
Archives of Nethys

Note: This product is part of the Pathfinder Rulebook Subscription.

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This product is non-mint. Refunds are not available for non-mint products. The standard version of this product can be found here.

Are there errors or omissions in this product information? Got corrections? Let us know at store@paizo.com.

PZO1112


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Without Opponents, Combat Sure Wouldn't Be Much Fun!

5/5

Bestiaries are Pathfinder's version of the D&D Monster Manuals: reference books containing descriptions and stat-blocks for hundreds of new creatures for PCs to battle, bother, or befriend. They're not designed to be read cover to cover, but that's exactly what I did for this review. The Bestiary weighs in at 327 pages and contains (according to the back-cover) over 350 different monsters arranged in alphabetical order.

The book starts with a two-page Introduction, and it's actually worth reading because it explains what the (28!) different categories of information in a creature's stat block mean. It also introduces the the "Monster Icons" scheme, wherein each monster receives three different icons to visually denote its creature type, terrain, and climate. I like the idea of the icons, but I find them too small and similar to be useful, and I'm not interested in flipping back to page 5 too figure out what they mean. I'm happy just reading the corresponding entries in the stat block.

For monsters, we start with Aasimar on page 7 and run through until Zombie on page 289. This is what the book is all about, but it's a challenging thing to review as my notes are full of bits of scattered remarks about dozens of different monsters. As I can't figure out a coherent way to synthesize them, I'm going to take the unusual tack of just including them as a sort of impressionistic picture of what's in the book. Skim to the bottom for more of the review.

"A"

--aboleths are a lot tougher than CR might indicate!

--Not officially Golarion, but flavour in entries generally compatible

--backdoor cosmology with angels stuff

--really good write-up of Solar Angels

--Army Ant Swarms are pretty nasty!

--like archons--I've never really seen them used outside of summoning, when no RP is involved

--azatas: CG celestials

Bs

--cool how barghests become greater!

--bebiliths: wow, awesome art for an awesome creature!

--bugbear artwork is weird, but fascinating bit on "The Nature of Goblinoid Evil"

Cs

--creepy Choker

--good mixture of animals and various types of monsters

--a lot of classic ones, but some new ones (like chuul) as well

--like history of cyclops and flash of insight power

Ds

--dark folk and dark stalkers?!?! humanoid subtype with language--never heard of them...

--demons! Good, engaging, clear explanation

--don't argue with a balor demon!

--great stories for demons--quasit familiars taking master's souls!

--devils! emphasis on hierarchy

--a good variety of tough foes, with lots of HP and resistances

--great writeup of lemure devils

--fantastic artwork all the way through!

--Devourers are pretty nasty for their CR!

--too many dinosaurs!

--dragons! stat blocks are so long, there's very little description

--driders and drow: underused

E

--elementals

F

--familiar (no idea that was here!)

--froghemoth--really?

G

--gelatinous cubes are really dangerous!

--genies

--love Shaitan genie art

--ghosts: emphasis on story-based customization, 2 page spread

--Giants!

--fun gibbering mouthers artwork

--goblins

--golems

Hs

--half- templates

--occasionally the titles aren't the most intuitive: "Herd animal, bison" for example

--need full stats for combat-trained horses

Is

--intellect devourer--WTF!

Ks

--kytons are cool/creepy

Ls

--lamia artwork is regrettable

--lich: gotta have 'em!

--linnorms are nasty, especially curses and poison!

--lycanthrope template

Ms

--medusas, minotaurs, mimics--all the classics!

--mummy rot sure is nasty!

Ns

-- nagas look dumb

--neothelids are intriguing! need more

--nymphs have cool boons

Os

--Oni need better explanation

Ps

--good amount of player detail for pegasi

Rs

--rakhasa: a lot of potential in the right campaign

--retrievers are scary

--rust monsters!

Ss

--sea hag artwork is great! (and evil eye comatose ability!)

--shadows can be quite more lethal than CR

--touch ACs are so low because of artificial natural armor bonuses, making Alchemists and Gunslingers especially powerful

--shoggoths arent very scary for CR19

--skum have surprisingly interesting write-up

--giant slugs too goofy

Ts

--tarrasque: bad pic, underwhelming

--troglodyte pic is great!

Us

Vs

--vampires: elaborate template

--vargouille's kiss is nasty

Ws

Xs

--xills are awesome!

Zs

--zombie pic is hilarious

Hm, that was embarrassing. Sorry!

After the monster entries are a series of appendices, and these definitely add value to the book.

Appendix 1 is Monster Creation, and it offers a very thorough and clear guide to monster creation. There are a *lot* of moving parts to creating balanced monsters in Pathfinder, so this will take some time until you get the hang of it. Appendix 2 is Monster Advancement, and this is another important part of the book because it shows GMs how to adjust creatures in the book to make them more or less powerful by adding simple templates (like "Giant" or "Young") and by adding racial hit dice or class levels. Appendix 3 is the section of the book I use more than any other, and it's indispensable: Universal Monster Rules. In order to save space and avoid repetition in stat blocks, common monster abilities are fleshed out here: everything from Darkvision to Damage Reduction to Incorporeal and more. Only very, very experienced GMs should try to run creatures just from the stat blocks without remembering to double-check what their monster abilities do, precisely, in the Universal Monster Rules. The same appendix also contains creature Types and Subtypes, which are like packages of basic information that all creatures of a particular category, such as demons or animals, share. Again, this is to save space in stat blocks. Appendix 4 is very short, and provides some advice on Monsters as PCs. I've never used it. Appendix 5 is Monster Feats, though some PCs may actually legitimately use some of them like Craft Construct. If you notice that a monster has a feat you can't find in the Core Rulebook, that's probably because it's listed here. Appendices 6 and 7 list Monster Cohorts (for the Leadership feat) and Animal Companions (for druids and rangers), respectively. Appendices 8-12 are indexes that help a GM who is looking for monsters of a particular type, CR, terrain, etc. Really useful information that most people who just use online databases probably never realized was available. Finally, Appendix 14 contains Encounter Tables broken up by terrain. These include average CRs for an each table, but I still think it'd be foolish to actually roll on them: in a Hill/Mountain, region, for example, your PCs could run into CR 3 orcs or CR 12 fire giants. A party that is challenged by the former would be curb-stomped by the latter. Good random encounter table design needs to have a narrow range of CRs before they become feasible.

I'm not a huge monster guy like some people, but I definitely enjoyed reading the Bestiary and I learned a lot about the core monsters of the setting. I know there are five later books that expand the selection far more, but much of what I see in APs and PFS still draws from this book. Along with the Core Rulebook, it's safe to say that the Bestiary was one of the releases that helped to solidify Paizo's reputation as a company that publishes the highest calibre of RPG books in terms of writing quality, artwork, design, and layout. It's not indispensable since there are multiple websites that present the same information, but for ease of use (and the joy of skimming), the Bestiary is one of those books that every GM should have.


It all starts here babee

5/5

One only two books you require to jump in and play Pathfinder, it is the essential meat in the gaming stew. As important and the core rulebook is, it is nothing with out this work.

Expanded and tweaked off the OGL 3.x material, its cleaner, better organized and tweaked for the Pathfinder rules. Every hero needs a foe, every damsel in distress needs a captor, and every GM needs a source of badies to keep the group on their toes. You will find it all here, between these pages is years of destruction and mayhem.

No matter if you playing Pathfinders own setting, one of your own design and creation, or another publishers material, this is the must have companion to your CRB.


They need more monsters

5/5

not as useful as the advanced raced guide for the monsters you could play as it does have a lot. i own this and well do my best to keep it hidden from my players. they keep trying to make them fight dragons... they are lvl 5


great reference book

5/5

This book has all the monsters you would need on a starting campaine


The standard by which all monster products will be judged by.

5/5

By now, there are several Bestiaries out in print, but when this book first came out you arguably needed to own it to play the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game. Was it worth the purchase? Decide for yourself!

Crunch
When we talk about a book's crunch, we're looking at its game rules, mechanics, and similar stats. As a monster book, the Bestiary is 99% crunch, and for Paizo's first real Bestiary, it is absolutely fantastic. There isn't a whole lot you can really say about monster stat blocks; they work perfectly and there aren't any monsters that feel ridiculous for their challenge rating (CR). The book also includes several new races that are appropriate for player characters; in this book, we have aasimars, the tieflings, and drow, as well as the applicable but seldom appropriate deurgar, drow noble, and svirfneblin. The book stays true to the rules of its predecessors; when you look at a drow, you recognize it as a drow from previous games. Because of the significant power up that the core races received these classically "OP" races aren't very far out of line with your traditional player characrers, and as a result we don't see the Level Adjustment system in Pathfinder. If you're unfamiliar with the term, in older editions of Dungeons and Dragons, some races were deemed so powerful that you had to actually forgo class levels in order to be a member of the race. For example, if you wanted to play a drow, you had a LA of +1, meaning that your race counted as 1 class level when determining your party's level. This either meant you were more powerful than your friends or (and more commonly) your GM had you start at a lower level to compensate. And believe me, it is not fun to be a sorcerer of an LA race because of how far behind your party is! The racial benefits seldom made up for the loss of character levels and it was a pretty terrible mechanic all around, so good riddance.

Although the book's theme is classic monsters, Paizo manages to add its own spin on fantasy games by including weird and amazing monsters. A perfect example is the froghemoth, which is basically a giant aberrant frog-monster. As a huge Lovecraft fan, I was ecstatic to see monsters like the shoggoth creep up in Pathfinder as well. For a first Bestiary, the spread of monsters is well-chosen and you could definitely run a game with only this book if you really wanted to.

What probably amounts to the best change of all, in my opinion, is the changes to the rules for building your own monsters. These rules are difficult to comprehend and enact in other games, but the Paizo team does an excellent job of laying out step-by-step every detail in crafting your own monsters by including handy charts and tables. For a game that knew it wasn't launching with much material and that it wanted to be backwards-compatible with older products, it was a very wise choice to streamline monster-making as much as they did and its probably the best reason to keep a copy of Bestiary I in your library alongside future monster tomes. 5 /5 Stars.

Flavor
When we talk about a product's flavor, we're talking about its fiction content, its style, and its overall feel. This section is always very opinionated, because even though I whole-heartily enjoy Lovecraft and his works, there are those who don't like their minds thrust into insanity and the mere sight of a shoggoth or whatnot. When you read the Bestiary, the one thing that becomes very clear is that there simply is not much room for flavor. Most monsters get a paragraph and a half of descriptive text and a beautiful picture, but that's about it. Honestly, however, that's all this product needs. The monsters that are detailed are classic monsters, so the information provided about them tends to be enough that classic gamers can recognize the creature for what it is and new players can get a sense of wonder and learn enough about the monster to be on the same page with the veterans. The art is fabulous in this book and supplements the descriptions perfectly, even when the monster concept is weird text-wise a beautiful illustration helps to sell it to you personally.

The elephant in the room is that Pathfinder wants to have its own identity as much as it wants to follow in the footsteps of its predecessors. This means that every so often the Paizo team completely re-imagines and redefines the traits of a specific monster. Usually this happens to a relatively unknown or under used monster (we'll talk more about this in Bestiary III), but there is one monster in particular that is relatively well-known and got the Paizo makeover in a big way. That monster, which has become Paizo's mascot of sorts, is the goblin. To give a little bit of background, traditionally goblins have admittedly lacked character; they were little more than evil halflings in most settings. Paizo's very first adventure path, Rise of the Runelords, shook this up by drastically changing the image of the goblin; they were now psychotic savages who were obsessed with fire and scared of dogs and horses. They sang Children of the Corn style songs about death and murder and often filled a role as comic relief in many of the adventures they have been featured in while simultaneously managing to inspire fear and terror in many a party. In my experience, you either love or you hate the new look of goblins. Many classic gamers that I've played with deplore the "new" goblin if only for the art design; big heads, small bodies. Honestly, however, it doesn't bother me much; my gaming generation includes Warcraft's techno-suicidal goblins and Warhammer's hordes of insane, suicidal goblins; next to those, Paizo's take on the goblin fits in rather nicely.

For being limited to several paragraphs of text per monster, the Bestiary gives you everything you'd expect and more flavor-wised. Its a book of monsters that feel threatening and believable; there's nothing too dumb or too far out there unless you're a hard-core medieval traditionalist. 5 /5 Stars.

Texture
When we talk about a book's texture, we're talking about its grammar and layout, among other things. As someone who has actually sat down to try and write a bestiary, let's be clear that if there's one thing I get, its that stat blocks are HARD. They're hard to format, they're hard to standardize, they're even hard to spell check because of the sheer amount of text that a book like the Bestiary has. All of its complex jargon, half of it made of surreal naming conventions. With all this mind, if there's one place that the Bestiary is amazing, its the texture. There is almost no errors of any kind in this document. Perfect grammar. Perfect spelling conventions. Perfect formatting. Everything is perfect.

As you can see in the picture I included, the Bestiary breaks from traditional monster books in that it limits one monster page, with only a few exceptions (mostly animals and familiars). There is extreme attention to detail in the text placement, and its very impressive that the book manages to be as descriptive as it is with as little space as it has; almost every monster is illustrated, after all, so not only are you juggling stat blocks, but you're also juggling them with text descriptions and illustrations. This book is a marvel of editing and layout and nothing less. 5 /5 Stars.

Final Score & Thoughts
Crunch: 5 / 5
Flavor: 5 / 5
Texture: 5 / 5
Final Score: 5 / 5

This book does everything right. It is the shining star by which all monster-based products should be judged. For a first attempt, Paizo smashes their monster book out of the park, past all expectations. It makes me excited to start looking at the future Bestiary products.


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Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

Same here Scranford.Mine still not shipped.


Does anyone know if this has hit retail stores yet? I will be very close to the Compleat Strategist in NYC tomorrow and can just pick up one up the flesh. :)

Liberty's Edge

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I am still waiting for all my other stuff to get to thier warehouse, I am not really worried though, not like I am playing :-(.

I want the bestiary to start converting Pathfinder Season 0 scenarios.

Liberty's Edge

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Denim N Leather wrote:
Does anyone know if this has hit retail stores yet? I will be very close to the Compleat Strategist in NYC tomorrow and can just pick up one up the flesh. :)

I doubt it, they just recently shipped them to the distributors.

Liberty's Edge

I one of the (few?) that didn't get an email about the delay with Seekers of secrets.

I found out by reading the boards, I have asked Cosmo to split my order, and it has been done and fast which was very good of him, as always.

I'm just hoping it ships soon as early Monday I'm headed of on Holiday and wold like some nice pdf's to read while away :)

I'm international so not expecting it to happen but hey fingers crossed.


Newb question:

If the pdf is available, should it just show up in "my downloads"? Or is there something else I need to do? My bestiary shipped two days ago, and the download isn't showing up.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Lord Pomposity wrote:

Newb question:

If the pdf is available, should it just show up in "my downloads"? Or is there something else I need to do? My bestiary shipped two days ago, and the download isn't showing up.

As you're not a subscriber, you need to purchase it. However, the PDF isn't available for general purchase until the book itself goes on sale which won't be for a couple of weeks.

If you are a subscriber, then when they ship the books to you (which might be a few days after they start the shipping process so you have to endure other lucky whatsisnames saying how great the book is before you get it grrrrrr) it goes into your "My Downloads" area.

Sovereign Court

mrbobvilla wrote:

My apologies if this is the wrong place to ask this.

I just got my pdf version and I noticed that the Aasimar Characters have +2 Charisma, and +2 wisdom but no negative. The Tiefling has +2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence and -2 Charisma.

Was it really the intention to give the Aasimar's such an advantage? It would seem to me that they are fairly overpowered compared to the standard races. (This may just be a personal opinion though.)

I also do understand that the Tiefling has bonuses that the Aasimar does not, which could be considered to outweigh the lack of a negative stat.

Well, those racial adjustments are unchanged from the 3.5 adjustments, so I don't see this as a big deal.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Denim N Leather wrote:
Does anyone know if this has hit retail stores yet? I will be very close to the Compleat Strategist in NYC tomorrow and can just pick up one up the flesh. :)

The retail release date is next Wednesday, the 21st.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

About the e-mails Cosmo was sending...

People who are set to hold for monthly shipments, or to hold for the Adventure Path, are not supposed to have gotten an e-mail—those subscriptions are still being handled exactly as they were designed.

The e-mail was supposed to go out to people who were set to ship separately. The problem there was that we finalized their orders when we thought everything would be shipping this week, but since a couple of the products were delayed, that meant that their orders were now being held until the late products arrived. Those were the only folks who were supposed to get an email, which essentially said something like: "Last week we told you that we were shipping stuff together because it was arriving together, but it arrived separately. Did you still want it together, or separate?"

It turns out that A) a lot of those people have already contacted Cosmo; B) he's a bit behind in answering e-mail, as we're down one person in customer service at the moment (Sara starts Monday!); C) it's taking longer to fulfill things than we expected, as one of our warehouse guys has been sick; and D) the tardy products are about to arrive anyway. So, we didn't actually send that e-mail to everyone—by the time we'd see their answer, their combined shipment would be queued up anyway.

Sorry for all the confusion. We're working with our printer to improve their communication with us so it won't happen again, and we're doing our best to get everybody's order as as quickly as possible.


Vic Wertz wrote:
Denim N Leather wrote:
Does anyone know if this has hit retail stores yet? I will be very close to the Compleat Strategist in NYC tomorrow and can just pick up one up the flesh. :)
The retail release date is next Wednesday, the 21st.

That's not cool!. I subscribe to almost anything, and even if you ship my Bestiary today it won't be here till after that. Not real happy as I could sure be using this by now, and I know some people that are not subscribers have already had theirs shipped, so what gives. shouldn't the subscribers be rewarded with earlier shipment?

Dark Archive

We're already rewarded with discounts and a free PDF. I really don't think we have much to complain about.


Ravenmantle wrote:
We're already rewarded with discounts and a free PDF. I really don't think we have much to complain about.

My only complaint is that people who aren't subscribers have already had their books shipped...I don't think a complaint is out of line on that.


Denim N Leather wrote:
Does anyone know if this has hit retail stores yet? I will be very close to the Compleat Strategist in NYC tomorrow and can just pick up one up the flesh. :)

All hail the strat! Beats sword upon shield

Just ordered mine and did USPS Priority mail..here's hoping it arrives soon!


when is quiting time so i'll know to quit hitting refresh?

Scarab Sages

Huzzah! I finally got my email saying it's going to be shipped soon.

Sczarni

scranford wrote:
Ravenmantle wrote:
We're already rewarded with discounts and a free PDF. I really don't think we have much to complain about.
My only complaint is that people who aren't subscribers have already had their books shipped...I don't think a complaint is out of line on that.

pre-orders and subscribers get shipped together, that way everyone in a certain region ship together, easier to code, and easier for those doing the actual shipping.


Cpt_kirstov wrote:
scranford wrote:
Ravenmantle wrote:
We're already rewarded with discounts and a free PDF. I really don't think we have much to complain about.
My only complaint is that people who aren't subscribers have already had their books shipped...I don't think a complaint is out of line on that.
pre-orders and subscribers get shipped together, that way everyone in a certain region ship together, easier to code, and easier for those doing the actual shipping.

So if a guy orders one today, and he happens to be in the zone they are shipping to that day, then he gets his shipped while mine that was ordered months ago sits in the que? Gee I'm glad my company ships FIFO, I would have a ton of customers mad...still I guess when I watch my players whom don't subscribe brandish their copies around the table during our Thursday game, I'll smugly smile and tell them "Yeah, but I've got a free pdf when my zone finally comes up.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Cpt_kirstov wrote:
scranford wrote:
Ravenmantle wrote:
We're already rewarded with discounts and a free PDF. I really don't think we have much to complain about.
My only complaint is that people who aren't subscribers have already had their books shipped...I don't think a complaint is out of line on that.
pre-orders and subscribers get shipped together, that way everyone in a certain region ship together, easier to code, and easier for those doing the actual shipping.

That's not *quite* correct. As I've mentioned before, when we fulfill subscription shipments, we have two queues—an automated queue, for subscribers who have shipments that are similar to other subscribers (where "similar" considers the list of products, the shipping method, and the destination), and a manual queue, for people who have unusual orders (usually because they have an unusual combination of items in their sidecart). The fast queue is for subscribers only and is optimized for speed of fulfillment; the manual queue combines subscribers and non-subscribers, and is sort of a weighted FIFO, with subscribers having increased priority in that queue. (A bunch of other things go into the weighting, but subscriber vs. non-subscriber is a big one.)

scranford, the delay in your case is not that you're behind non-subscribers—it's that, due to a last-minute delay in delivery of Seekers of Secrets, we finalized your order with that book, and it hasn't yet arrived. (Lisa's post earlier in this thread covers the details.) You're one of the folks who should have received an e-mail sometime in the last week asking if you'd rather we held to the confirmation e-mail we sent before we learned of the delay, or whether we should ship them separately. If you want us to ship separately, let us know and we'll get the in-stock items out on Monday—but note that we're expecting Seekers of Secrets to arrive Tuesday, so it will go out next week anyway. We're sorry for the delay that this has added.


Vic Wertz wrote:
Cpt_kirstov wrote:
scranford wrote:
Ravenmantle wrote:
We're already rewarded with discounts and a free PDF. I really don't think we have much to complain about.
My only complaint is that people who aren't subscribers have already had their books shipped...I don't think a complaint is out of line on that.
pre-orders and subscribers get shipped together, that way everyone in a certain region ship together, easier to code, and easier for those doing the actual shipping.

That's not *quite* correct. As I've mentioned before, when we fulfill subscription shipments, we have two queues—an automated queue, for subscribers who have shipments that are similar to other subscribers (where "similar" considers the list of products, the shipping method, and the destination), and a manual queue, for people who have unusual orders (usually because they have an unusual combination of items in their sidecart). The fast queue is for subscribers only and is optimized for speed of fulfillment; the manual queue combines subscribers and non-subscribers, and is sort of a weighted FIFO, with subscribers having increased priority in that queue. (A bunch of other things go into the weighting, but subscriber vs. non-subscriber is a big one.)

scranford, the delay in your case is not that you're behind non-subscribers—it's that, due to a last-minute delay in delivery of Seekers of Secrets, we finalized your order with that book, and it hasn't yet arrived. (Lisa's post earlier in this thread covers the details.) You're one of the folks who should have received an e-mail sometime in the last week asking if you'd rather we held to the confirmation e-mail we sent before we learned of the delay, or whether we should ship them separately. If you want us to ship separately, let us know and we'll get the in-stock items out on Monday—but note that we're expecting Seekers of Secrets to arrive Tuesday, so it will go out next...

The problem is there was no communication. I assumed since I had the option of "Never hold anything" checked that you guys would...well...never hold anything. This will make two games I'm running now without the bestiary, when I should at least have the pdf, which by the way you should go ahead and give me access to since it's not my fault you guys decided to arbitrarily change my shipping option. Even if you hold it, and don't ship it till Tuesday, I should still have access to the pdf.

PS: By the way I never received the email, because I would have had you guys go ahead and ship the bestiary. One week's difference would have made the difference, but one day does not. I should have been given the option.

Dark Archive

This has been a very poorly managed situation and abysmal system for delivering goods.
Makes me reconsider my 5 subscriptions. Waste of time, effort and energy with this company, sigh.


Obviously everyone has a right to be upset about the things that strike them the wrong way, but I don't see anything in the product description about getting your products before street date. I guess I could understand being upset if a subscriber didn't get a product because everything sold out and the subscribers weren't accounted for, and it would be months before you got your product.

But that's not the case. I've subscribed to lots of things over the years, and honestly, most of them I've actually gotten after the street date for the product. The reason for the subscription was to automatically get the item (and in the case of Paizo, to get the PDF as well) when it comes out, not to automatically get it before anyone else gets it.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I just can't believe the whining ...

I must be getting old to consider under 30 days a normal delivery time. I'll just snooze this one out.


Freehold DM wrote:


All hail the strat! Beats sword upon shield

Hehe, yeah ... living in NYC is a blessing and a curse when it comes to that place! =P

(Though I'm sure there are other places that put even the strat to shame)


KnightErrantJR wrote:

Obviously everyone has a right to be upset about the things that strike them the wrong way, but I don't see anything in the product description about getting your products before street date. I guess I could understand being upset if a subscriber didn't get a product because everything sold out and the subscribers weren't accounted for, and it would be months before you got your product.

But that's not the case. I've subscribed to lots of things over the years, and honestly, most of them I've actually gotten after the street date for the product. The reason for the subscription was to automatically get the item (and in the case of Paizo, to get the PDF as well) when it comes out, not to automatically get it before anyone else gets it.

Normally I would agree with you, but my problem is I have grown accustomed to receiving my products early, and in fact this is one of the major reasons why I subscribe. And though I don't like it I could agree with the delayed shipment...if I had even been informed. This process has done nothing but frustrate, and delay product shipment to their most loyal customers.

When I check "Don't hold anything" that's what I meant. I was agreeing to pay more shipment in order to get the quicker delivery. I'm not saying Paizo did anything illegal or against any policy, it just falls outside their normal fantastic customer support.
I'm through talking about it however. My dollars speak louder than my words, and if it perturbs me enough I'll simply discontinue my purchases...It's not there yet...but things don't change unless someone points out that they should.

Paizo Employee CEO

Hey y'all:

I am sorry that a few of you got caught in this mess. I will get to the bottom of why people weren't notified when I am back in the office on Monday. I will also get together with my team and come up with a solution to try to make it up to you. Unfortunately, since none of us are in the office, it will have to wait until Monday.

I do want to reiterate something that I said earlier in this thread. Because of the way our agreement with VISA and Mastercard is set up, it would have been illegal for us to ship people's products out in a different configuration than we emailed them it would. Like I said earlier, we were told by our printers that all of the products would be in our warehouse by the 12th of October. Then one printer switched dates on us after we had locked in the subscription shipments. At that time, we were literally stuck with having to wait unless we heard differently from our customers. I know it sucks to basically tell us to ship them as they come in and then get screwed because a) you subscribe to all of the products and b) something outside your control and Paizo's control causes this, and we are just as frustrated about it as you are, believe me.

As far as I know, we sent emails to everyone affected by this. I can't verify this until Monday, but I will. I can't verify delivery of the messages since SPAM filters and other blocking agents sometimes cause paizo.com emails to customers to get shunted away. But I will verify that we sent them.

Once more, my apologies for anybody in this boat who was affected by this.

-Lisa

Shadow Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

I live in regional Australia and my orders always take weeks to arrive, sometimes I probably could get my Paizo fix at the nearest store a lot faster (happened with the core rules - they arrived in the mail a few days after my local store had the book). I subscribe however because it offers so much! You get the free PDF, the often early delivery, the discounts on items, great customer service and people who run a company AND are willing to talk online at the forums. Are we perhaps a little spoilt that we feel the need to complain so vehemently when ONE month of subscriptions is a little messy? Paizo can only ship things so fast and everyone wants to be the first - occasionally it means you may have a longer wait. I personally want to thank Paizo for the great job they've done in getting out the bestiary - my email arrived today, downloaded the PDF and I love it! Now I'm at the mercy of the mail man...

Dark Archive

I don't think you understand exactly what is going on.
Most of the people who take issue had changed their subscriptions (as suggested by Vic) to "Do not hold anything" so they could get their book, and thus their Bestiary pdf sent out as quick as possible. Supposedly emails were sent out to warn people of potential delays (didn't get it) since one book was back-ordered which shouldn't have affected the other orders since (again) for the people who changed their subscriptions to "DO NOT HOLD". So somehow orders were bundled in with a book they do not have at the warehouse and they did not remove the missing book from the outgoing orders. At least not without email notifications and customer permission, an email which apparently many people did not receive (I didn't).

So even after making the subscription delivery changes we also posted request to completely break apart the bundled orders in the customer service section on this website, this in effect giving paizo permission to make the changes and ship what they have on hand. No one here is asking to have the book in their hands today, tomorrow or even next week, just the pdf which we as subscribers should have received when our orders shipped. Which hasn't happened yet.
It's nice to know that someone in Australia actually had their book shipped out before mine (CA, USA) with all the precautions taken to avoid delays just to get THE PDF.

Like a fool I took a day off midweek under the assumption (based on last weeks projections and their confirmation stating that they were going to ship on Tuesday) that I would have the pdf, I would be able to knock out 50 pages of revisions holding up my game. It was poor judgment and assumptions on my part that after a few days I would have at least had the electronic file so I could get my backlogged work done. My mistake, won't make it again.

At least I got caught up with watching all my Twilight Zone DVDs


I see this as an unfortunate circumstance, but I think that the solution to statements that the "Do not hold" was not satisfied would be producing a lot more angry complaints. That would be to just not combine orders at all. If they have three subscription items coming for a person at the same time, to prepare Paizo sets up the orders so that each product would go out in an individual package, even if they were packing all the products at the same time.

This way they could ship them right away even if one product gets held up by a few days. But in that case I can see people yelling at Paizo that they were stupidly causing shipping charges to triple by not shoving things in the same box.

There is another option that they could process an order before actually shipping it, but I can't see it as a good process to take money for something that you hope you will be able to ship soon. In which case, I would see more angry customers who had their money taken long before product was delivered.

I'm not suggesting that situation isn't bad, but I just don't see a much better solution Paizo could have used given the situation and that some critical comments don't seem to take that into account.

Following this situation, I would only suggest a "Never ship subscriptions together/Don't take any chances that a shipment will be held" option for shipping on the subscription page for the people that really want that option.

Liberty's Edge

The main cause of my frustration over this is that I have everything to ship immediately and not to hold it up, as I willing to pay the extra postage so I can get my grubby mitts on the pdf's fastest as international shipping takes at least two weeks for me.

While Paizo is very good at combining orders that would ship close together to save both me money and them hassle, this sometimes backfire like in this case. But having been subscribed from the start I can wait, though impatiently :)

Shadow Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
Auxmaulous wrote:


It's nice to know that someone in Australia actually had their book shipped out before mine (CA, USA) with all the precautions taken to avoid delays just to get THE PDF.

I'm a subscriber as well so it may happen occasionally that I may get in before you do - being in the US doesn't make you a higher priority subscriber does it? I also asked for my subscritions to be split up and changed to DO NOT HOLD to get the PDF quicker. I never recieved an email to ask me IK just read the posts that I'm writing in now and asked.

I concede it's a bit rough for non-subscribers to get their stuff sent out before subscribers, and I can see your frustration Wildfire but overall I think Paizo did a good job in adverse condistions (down staff, delayed printing, massive demand) to get them out within a week of arrival.

Of course people Could always follow through their threats and cancel their subscriptions - then you'll just get the books later, at a higher cost and without the free PDF.

Liberty's Edge

scranford wrote:
Ravenmantle wrote:
We're already rewarded with discounts and a free PDF. I really don't think we have much to complain about.
My only complaint is that people who aren't subscribers have already had their books shipped...I don't think a complaint is out of line on that.

I hate to say it but I would actually have to agree with this.

There is no discount for this subscription as mentioned earlier unless you also subscribe to other subscriptions. And yes there is a PDF but I think it is a common thing to expect to get the subscription stuff before other non subscribers do in a store.

Granted it is a little different for myself since I have a combined shipment....yet if it was the only thing I was subscribing to I would be a little bit put off if others get it before I got it and I subscribed.

Plus another suggesting perhaps for the subscriptions is to have an option for things to ship with your Core stuff....or at least some how put a priority on these items to ship immediately with what you have. Probably very hard to set up but just a thought.

Because I would of had the maps that are holding the shipment up to just go on the next order and get the core book as fast as possible.

Sean

Liberty's Edge

Cat-thulhu wrote:
Auxmaulous wrote:


It's nice to know that someone in Australia actually had their book shipped out before mine (CA, USA) with all the precautions taken to avoid delays just to get THE PDF.
Of course people Could always follow through their threats and cancel their subscriptions - then you'll just get the books later, at a higher cost and without the free PDF.

Actually I was thinking about it....

Not quite there yet. I think the biggest complaint is the PDF not being available for the pre-order subscriptions because of the delay in the other book/map or what ever it is.."Seekers"

I know it has been explained why the PDF are held up but people make plans when they get a shipment order on the 7th and expect Tuesday to have the PDF.....and no other communication.

Granted Pazio is still probably better than most but with that comes a higher standard to uphold that they set.

As to nothing stated in the product description that you'd get it before street date in away it is because your suppose to get the PDF before street date since your product is suppose to ship before it is shipped to distributer or at least the same time.

Yes with subscription you get the PDF and you get that before the street date. If I have to wait for street date to even get the PDF there is no reason to subscribe. I usually use the book and not the PDF for gaming use. I only subscribe because I get to browse through it before I get the actual book. If that is to be after street date I could just go to the store to get it, I would be waiting the same amount of time.

Sean

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

Yeah, I don't work Thursdays and was hoping to read the pdf - that's when I discovered the Seeker delay had held up my whole order and asked to split my order. Cosmo did that when he got into work half a day later (other side of the world from me) but they haven't got round to shipping the bestiary yet. Now it's the weekend and it'll be Monday before they can ship it - which means Tuesday before the pdf is available for me - which basically means next Thursday before I read it. When Seeker should be there anyway...so splitting my order made no difference.

I've resigned myself to not glaring jealously at people who already have their pdf. There's nothing I can do, and I doubt there's any way he packers can work through their orders any quicker.

I still refresh my email every 5 minutes just in case though...

Liberty's Edge

Blazej wrote:

I see this as an unfortunate circumstance, but I think that the solution to statements that the "Do not hold" was not satisfied would be producing a lot more angry complaints. That would be to just not combine orders at all. If they have three subscription items coming for a person at the same time, to prepare Paizo sets up the orders so that each product would go out in an individual package, even if they were packing all the products at the same time.

This way they could ship them right away even if one product gets held up by a few days. But in that case I can see people yelling at Paizo that they were stupidly causing shipping charges to triple by not shoving things in the same box.

There is another option that they could process an order before actually shipping it, but I can't see it as a good process to take money for something that you hope you will be able to ship soon. In which case, I would see more angry customers who had their money taken long before product was delivered.

I'm not suggesting that situation isn't bad, but I just don't see a much better solution Paizo could have used given the situation and that some critical comments don't seem to take that into account.

Following this situation, I would only suggest a "Never ship subscriptions together/Don't take any chances that a shipment will be held" option for shipping on the subscription page for the people that really want that option.

Isn't it one in ten people will actually complain about something if it is convenient to do so.

So there is probably quite a few more than you see posting in the boards.

Sean


Did I miss a promise somewhere that we'd have these books or PDFs before the release date?

I think it's great that things show up early, but to actually EXPECT them early because it's happened in the past?

Interestingly, the email that I received letting me know that my subscription copy was shipping says this:

Quote:
Note: The PDF for Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Bestiary (OGL) Hardcover will not be available until October 21.

I'm having a hard time understanding the anger here...

If anyone should be angry, I should. Paizo lied to me. They told me the PDF wouldn't be available until October 21.


carborundum wrote:

Yeah, I don't work Thursdays and was hoping to read the pdf - that's when I discovered the Seeker delay had held up my whole order and asked to split my order. Cosmo did that when he got into work half a day later (other side of the world from me) but they haven't got round to shipping the bestiary yet. Now it's the weekend and it'll be Monday before they can ship it - which means Tuesday before the pdf is available for me - which basically means next Thursday before I read it. When Seeker should be there anyway...so splitting my order made no difference.

I've resigned myself to not glaring jealously at people who already have their pdf. There's nothing I can do, and I doubt there's any way he packers can work through their orders any quicker.

I still refresh my email every 5 minutes just in case though...

Did the same thing and still waiting :(


I'm not complaining...I'm waiting impatiently

***refresh***

***refresh***

***refresh***


Cocaine Monkey wrote:

I'm not complaining...I'm waiting impatiently

***refresh***

***refresh***

***refresh***

It's saturday, if you haven't gotten it, you'll have to wait til monday. I'm afraid.


vagrant-poet wrote:
It's saturday, if you haven't gotten it, you'll have to wait til monday. I'm afraid.

I know...but he's happiest just doing his thing.

Sovereign Court

I will be running RotR soon and was wondering if any kind person out there can tell me if all the monsters the AP are in the Bestiary?

mine is on hold pending the Pathfinder society book. :/

Thanks

Dark Archive

Gloom And Doom wrote:
vagrant-poet wrote:
It's saturday, if you haven't gotten it, you'll have to wait til monday. I'm afraid.
I know...but he's happiest just doing his thing.

Hey Dithering Fool, did you already get your pdf?

Dark Archive

Zaister wrote:
Shisumo wrote:
...July?
So this comes out before the Rulebook. Interesting. How very first edition :)

The core rulebook came out 2 months ago.


Cylerist wrote:
I will be running RotR soon and was wondering if any kind person out there can tell me if all the monsters the AP are in the Bestiary?

From what I can remember from earlier threads, the comment was that the AP Bestiary monsters were not included in this issue of the Core Bestiary. Perhaps James or Jason can clarify this for you if they are on line.

EDIT: However, that does not mean that ones listed in the AP itself as being in the MM aren't in the Bestiary.

EDIT2: I just looked through my copy of Burnt Offerings. Anything that does not have a stat block included is in the Core Bestiary.

Just my 2 cp.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber
Auxmaulous wrote:
Gloom And Doom wrote:
vagrant-poet wrote:
It's saturday, if you haven't gotten it, you'll have to wait til monday. I'm afraid.
I know...but he's happiest just doing his thing.
Hey Dithering Fool, did you already get your pdf?

Nope - but I fall into the "nonstandard order bucket" since I have a subscription copy and an extra...so I expect to be somewhere is the second batch.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Cat-thulhu wrote:
...being in the US doesn't make you a higher priority subscriber does it?

Yes and no. Remember how I said that the automated queue is optimized based on how similar your package is to other people? Well, that includes shipping method and destination, and since we have more domestic subscribers than international subscribers, and larger groups tend to be handled first, domestic mailing groups tend to be processed before international groups, at least when it comes to parcels containing the same set of items.

That is to say, odds are good that domestic superscribers with no unusual items are probably going to be processed shortly before international superscribers with no unusual items, but international superscribers with no unusual items may be processed before domestic Chronicles-only subscribers with no unusual items. It's a complicated system, but it's *usually* pretty efficient.

thenorthman wrote:
...another suggesting perhaps for the subscriptions is to have an option for things to ship with your Core stuff

We only offer the option to hold for monthly shipments or monthly subscriptions—which right now means the Pathfinder Adventure Path. If we offered "Hold for Pathfinder RPG," nobody would get anything for several months between the screen and the GM Guide. And options like "hold for monthly shipment unless an RPG product arrives first" would complicate a *lot* of things, and I believe, increase the likelihood of problems.

Brian E. Harris wrote:

Interestingly, the email that I received letting me know that my subscription copy was shipping says this:

wrote:


Note: The PDF for Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Bestiary (OGL) Hardcover will not be available until October 21.

Hmm. We did delay the Core Rulebook PDF for the street date, but not the Bestiary. Sounds like Gary left some old code in there. I'll have him look into it.

DitheringFool wrote:
...I fall into the "nonstandard order bucket" since I have a subscription copy and an extra...so I expect to be somewhere is the second batch.

I should clarify that the two queues don't run sequentially—they can begin simultaneously, but the automated queue finishes much faster than the manual queue. Thus, folks at the front of the manual queue may actually be processed before folks at the back of the automated queue.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

I've also shot myself in the foot by ordering an OotS book and adding it to my shipment. If I could I'd buy a Bestiary PDF right now to tide me over til my real pdf arrives! I mean it's only $10 and the other one is magic money on my credit card anyway...

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber
Vic Wertz wrote:
DitheringFool wrote:
...I fall into the "nonstandard order bucket" since I have a subscription copy and an extra...so I expect to be somewhere is the second batch.
I should clarify that the two queues don't run sequentially—they can begin simultaneously, but the automated queue finishes much faster than the manual queue. Thus, folks at the front of the manual queue may actually be processed before folks at the back of the automated queue.

I'm a mathematician by training and a software developer by trade - this kind of complexity makes me giggle like a little girl

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