fearcypher's page

Because a for a standard action a Normal cleric has the option of either

A) Attack with my melee weapon.
B) Cast a spell

whereas a reach cleric casts their spell, and then still gets an attack off due to attacks of opportunity.

So for a single feat you essentially get to double your standard actions each round.

Also 3/4ths bab with a single buff spell is still going to outscale enemy AC at higher levels, especially since because you're using AoOs you're making all your attacks at full BAB.

Astral projection from the Material plane to the Astral plane, then Plane shift back to the material. Problem solved.

Improve Initiative is a combat feat and is good on literally everyone

I'm curious how someone is getting constant fast healing in the first place, since thats generally a pretty restricted ability.

regardless if they have super High AC rather than worrying about dealing with damage and the like just use things that target other defenses.

Alchemists throwing bombs to hit touch AC which is generally lower than regular AC.

Or utilize Combat maneuvers, since CMD is also usually lower than AC by a fair bit. Trip will hurt AC, disarm will make them ineffective, dirty trick will eat actions, and grapple can flat out take them out of the fight with a few decent rolls.

However, even though a highly optimized PC can kill a Linnorm if they are specialized in Linnorm slaying I wouldn't send a singular PC against a Linnorm.

Though these types of characters would be fine as npc kings who hav e defeated various Linnorms

LINK

Archer paladin, oath against the wyrm. Uses stealth and consumables to get close, set up smite and haste and all, then full attacks the linnorms flat footed ac to one round it with obscene smite damage and litany of righteousness.

Total average damage ignoring nat 1s and crits = 411
Auto hits flat footed ac and is undetectable until after it attacks due to outstealthing the linnorms maximum perception by taking 10 on stealth and is unaffected by true seeing.

I haven't slept in a long time so this is all probably really sloppy. But if it can be done by one character I'm sure a party can do it if they prep for it.

So yeah, archers are really strong and paladins are really good at killing evil things, not a huge surprise here.

This character isnt great if they don't catch the linnorm off guard but since they can guarantee it I think that's a fine condition.

The text in the melee tactics toolbox appears to be non binding as it appears to be more of a strategy suggestion than rules text.

In addition, the Core Rulebook combat chapter takes precedence over other books, and the Core Rulebook combat chapter states that you may not take attacks of opportunity,

Panther style does not grant attacks of opportunity therefore you may still make the attacks.

fearcypher wrote:

This paired with the nerf to the buff aspect of cleric spellcasting and the reduction to their overall spells per day has made spells a non reliable buff source.

Clerics are worse in PF2 than in PF1

This is an interesting perspective because most of what I read about the cleric is that they are one of the classes really shining in PF2.

I think it is true that caster's generally will be less objectively powerful than in PF1 but that is a universal condition for casters and not tied to anyone class in particular.

As far as the Cleric's weapon proficiency, the Weapon Proficiency feat only gives trained. you can't increase any weapons or armor to expert with general feats, only archetype feats. General feats also can't raise saves above expert.

Getting Expert with weapon critical unlocks at level 14 without having to take a multi-class feat is probably about right in comparison to being able to get it at level 12 with the multi-class archetype.

I should have stated martial clerics are worse off right now. Casting clerics are having a ball, and being half decent with a weapon after they blow through the good stuff isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Posting this here from a thread I made on this topic already.

There has been a lot of controversy over Goblins being +CHA.

This is mainly due to many people believing in the "Monster races" concept. Though there are many exceptions, such as those who believe that a race of creatures known for living amongst garbage, with hideously large mouths, needle teeth, and oversized heads should have a bonus to social interaction rather than a penalty.

Whatever the reason for believing the shouldn't have CHA as a bonus, I believe that falls tot he wayside when we talk about why Paizo made goblin a core Ancestry.

It's their unofficial mascot. It has been for a long time, and they've capitalized on this we the We Be Goblins line. However, just because real people find goblins endearing, and enjoy playing them doesn't mean that they should be a +Cha race. Especially when they are noted for how terrible they are to interact with.

Additionally there is very little in their ancestry writeup that makes them appear charismatic.

However there is a decent bit that points towards them being good tinkerers

This seems like a key indication that Goblins should be a +INT race instead.

Let's take a look at goblin society for a minute here.
It i stated that goblins fear the written word, and because of this they have maintained a very primitive society.

But, even though Goblin society has an aversion to learning goblins have always been good at picking up new tricks to make things burn, and have made some pretty decent homes out of junk. So while as a society they may not be very smart, as a race they seem to be able to grasp new ideas quite easily.

So if we changes their stat lineup to +DEX +INT -WIS, we have a race that instead of being a cute, likeable bunch of trashmonging, green pyromaniacs who for some reason have an affinity for magic(resonance), we have a race of scrappy scavengers, who despite their dumb decision making that leads often to an early death, have an affinity for making junk do just what they want it to and are very good at figuring out how to make a couple of different powders go boom.

I understand that they start to fill some of the design space as elves, and many people will be worried about seeing goblin wizards.

However I feel that this helps to give them more of their own identify that makes more sense in universe than goblins going from being universally disliked to being naturally endearing.

Theoretically, in PF1, if you could get around DR losing out on the bonuses to hit and damage weren't the end of the world. You could work around it with some clever planning, it wasn't easy but it could be done.

Because of the HP inflation/crit system in PF2 if you don't have a magic weapon you are literally useless.

Is there no way for a character to gain increased proficiency in weapons/armor outside of level?

I understand the Barbarian not getting armor proficiency for free, or high level weapon proficiency for free, but is there no option for it even with feat investment?

Or that the fighter can't gain expert in armors lighter than heavy no matter what, even with their feats?

It doesn't seem right to me that classes have no way of bolstering their weaknesses even with feats.

Maybe I'm missing something but shouldn't their be ways(at least for martial classes) to boost their proficiency(even if at a slower rate than classes who have it as their main schtick) outside of what is directly granted by their class?

So from what I've heard Doomsday Dawn is going to be five part AP told from five different groups perspective. The reasoning being they wanted to get as much varied data as possible. This they allow everyone to play 5/12 classes.

My question is can Doomsday Dawn be passed around members of the group so that there isn't one GM the whole time?

I have a 5 person group and we are all very excited about the new edition but I don't think any one of us want's to get stuck GMing the whole time.

I don't this is a good idea. Really, this is kind of tasteless.

Now that said, it shouldn't be a set of modifiers. If you want to do this, or anything like this you just build a character with stats appropriate to what you want to RP.

Lets take for example I want to make a Gunslinger that is close to Doc Holiday. Doc was a twitchy guy, a gambler, drinker, and he had Tuberculosis that was sort of killing him. He was basically a thin, sickly guy that ran on alcohol and rage.

So I pump his dex, give him a con of 8 because he's unhealthy and I don't buy it up because its an RP thing. I want my unhealthy coughing up blood gunslinger to have a low con. And I pump his charisma and use the Mysterious Stranger archatype because it screams old west gunslinger and spaghetti western to me.

Picture what you want the character to be, then make it. Don't treat a genetic condition like a set of stat modifiers.

you don't get to tell the guy with a condition, asking for help on how to represent the condition, that his idea is tasteless.

Don't try to be offended on other people's behalf.

If you want to be the strongest buffer in the world and don't mind cheese you can get Holy Sword as a 4th level shaman spell and cast it on your allies to give them free +6 equivalent weapons.

Just spend some of your WBL on a blessed book, it will save you a lot of the hassle of acquiring new spells as well as give you a bunch to start.

@voodist monk
Let's rephrase it because you don't seem to get it.

Assume a party lacks an arcane caster, what can't can't it do without special effort?

As in, a party without a cleric/divine caster can't handle Condition removal, such as removing blindness or restoring negative levels.

As someone who is staunchly in the LG paladin camp, I really do like the idea of a class of warrior, that has 4 different specializations for each corner alignment, each named something different with the LG specialization being called Paladin. And the class would always be referred to as their specialization, like how a specialist wizard is always called an invoker, enchanter, etc.

Ya know, this thread just sort of proves the rule that more people would rather gripe about something than to say something good.

I like to think of it more as "there is so much good with the system that it's easier to talk about what isn't good because there is a lot more good than bad."

Maybe an (Aldori) Dueling Sword?

You'd have a special type of longsword that can be finessed. And if you wanted to you could get 1.5 strength to damage with it. Play a human and you'd have the two feats you'd need at first level and then you could grab power attack at 3rd if your strength is at least 13. You'd stay a single classed paladin and would still be able to pull of the concept.

Because Base Attack Bonus isn't just an Attack Bonus, it applies to other aspects of your character as well. It provides earlier access to certain feats like clustered shots, and faster progression on other feats like power attack and deadly aim. The power attack bonus in particular leads to a significant damage lead.

... how did you get a DC 20 level 2 spell?

DC 10+spell level+ability score = DC 10+2+5 = DC 17; unless you've got something weird going on (maybe feats to specialize), that's about as high as it gets right now.

A kitsune sorcerer could easily have a DC 20 suggestion at the level they can cast it.

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

CR 60 is quite an arbitrary number, and also something that's unrealistic at 99% of tables. If I let players reach that level, literally anything I throw at them won't work, which puts me at a "Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies" situation.

just because you cant take the easy way of pulling monsters directly from the bestiary doesn't mean nothing will work, at epic levels of play things need to be crafted by hand or you will need to look long and hard for high enough cr creatures, some one has probably made some cr 70-100 things that you can borrow.

Alright, that's it. I've seen you around these boards long enough and I'm fed up, all you do is advocate for extremely overpowered play and needlessly dump on other people when they try and do things any way but your way. You are a child that gets toxic when other people have "badwrongfun." You need to take a long look at the things you post and understand that you're constantly being a jackass.

OP is obviously looking for fun build that help to emulate an avatar of a deity because he wants some statblocks that he can actually USE. And I'd be willing to guess that he wants these to be playable and viable as a PC build too. Just because you think that they are very underpowered given what an avatar of a deity would be does not mean you need to argue about it, it means you ignore the thread and move on.

And that is what I strongly suggest you do, LEAVE.

Barbarian?

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

In your games, they have that many stats.

Your games are widely different than what other people normally play, though. Even a 25 point buy, which is usually the strongest "legal" power level for a given game (PFS assumes 20 point buy), does not have that many powerful stats, post-racial. The 20 and 16? Possibly. But there's no way they won't have any 8's or 7's in the mix if they try that.

It's a lot like what they would teach using averages in schools; outliers (such as the type of game that you play) aren't exactly an accurate demonstration of a typical game.

Now, I may be undervaluing Constitution slightly, but 16-20 Constitution is only valued for Barbarians, Kineticists, and pre-errata Scarred Witch Doctors.

pfs is also a super low powerd game type 25 points should honestly be the bare minimum as any less your pretty much playing commoners with pc class levels

ummm, commoners are built on a 3 point buy or lower. a 20 point buy is 6X as powerful. How is that commoners with class levels?

They would stack. The magus ability is not adding an ability score to the roll but rather adding an insight bonus equal to the modifier.

Use it for Swift action reload for crossbows at early levels?

Cool. Crawling around all spider monkey on 'em. But it comes with a significant hole in it. If you miss your AoO, you're giving the target a four point bonus to WHAP you. That's not small. Specially not if it has grab. Can you count as prone when grappled?

You add your Wisdom bonus on Acrobatics checks. While using this style, you take no penalty on melee attack rolls or to AC while prone. Further, you can crawl and stand up from lying prone without provoking attacks of opportunity, and you can stand up as a swift action if you succeed at a DC 20 Acrobatics check.

Emphasis mine

For low levels you'll just have to rely on your damage dice. It's not as bad as it sounds.

When you craft it you get it for half price. Also in a lot of games not everything is 100% available at all times to be purchased. So having tailor made gear can be a big advantage. But the biggest thing is that any item that is crafted is obtained for half price.

You misunderstand BAB and the fighters training. BAB is a representation of how well you fight. Barbarians have full BAB because they spend a lot of time fighting and killing. Paladins have full BAB because they spend their whole lives fighting undead, demons, and devils. Fighters have full BAB because they spend their whole lives training to fight.

These different methods of achieving full BAB are represented by their class features. The barbarians rage, because they kill so much they start to lose it. The paladins smite, because hes so good at killing things that the powers of law and good decide to aid him. The fighters training is represented with weapon and armour training. As well as the additional training(feats)they gain as they level up.

From a balance point of view a 3/4 BAB class cannot keep up with full BAB without expending resources. Barb would also lose access to the quick power attack progression, which doesn't make much sense comparing the flavour of the class tot he flavour of the feat. Full BAB while raging is probably the best way to go about doing this, but the issue with that is that it only matters in the early levels because after that the barb is raging every combat. It would only delay feat progression, which hurts a mundane martial with no spellcasting at all. Throwing 3/4 BAB on top of that will be very hard to keep the class competitive with even something like the rogue as they lose their in combat ability and aren't gaining elsewhere.

If you argue that the evil descriptor makes you evil then you have to argue that the good descriptor makes you good.

So if Tar-Baphon decides to spend a few years summoning hundreds of Celestial dogs everyday would you say he is a good character?

We can even look at Star Wars:Knights of the Old Republic. Being light side did not deny you access to any Dark side powers. It made them harder to access but they were not denied nor did they make you shift alignment. And that game had a sliding scale of alignment too.

"Remember: abilities are not inherently good or evil, it's how you use them.

Because our fiction is steeped with characters that everyone would define as good yet use powers that may not be 100% on the up and up. Our fiction has taught us that evil can be used for good and people want to emulate that. When my NG binding wizard slips to NE purely becaase he repeatedly summons demons, regardless of his actions with said demons it breaks my immersion.

From a mechanical standpoint yhe evil descriptor should only exist to prevent good gods giving demons as servants. So it would penalize divine casters and not the archetypical "Bend the universe to my goals" Wizard, especially when those goal are good.

Well it can depend on the Outsider. Creatures tend to act on their own will but if they have a strong connection to a character they may be subservient. Also they may forward service for payment later. If they are fighting an evil caster at the level that they can cast gate a solar may help anyway, as Solars tend to attempt to destroy powerful evils. You may opt to control it as GM but it all depends on how smoothly you want a game to run.

All in all it would heavily depend on what exactly the player is fighting? Also what type of people are in the party? Are they dark antiheroes or champions of good? Are there Paladins or other good aligned casters? Are any of them evil? What deity is the Solar aligned with? that may come into it.

Honestly I want everyone to be able to participate in the game. So my idea was to do some form of mystery intrigue inside a city that was relatively combat light. I'm expecting high attrition rate and a my plan is to train another DM ASAP anyway so i'm glad i had the right idea there. I usually houserule out anything that takes too much time anyway so that shouldn't be an issue. The time limit thing is a good idea but im thinking something closer to 15 seconds because they are pretty new. I really like TheNines idea of splitting them up in combat to let them really shine.

Anyway first session is later today I'll let you guys know how it goes.

Option 3: Take the second most experienced player, have them become a GM, and split the group in two.

6 players is effectively the maximum for having fun at a single table, IMO.

I do plan on eventually getting someone else experienced enough to DM but currently everybody else is the second most experienced player so that idea is kinda gone. I'm pretty sure that I can do this but I figured I should come here and maybe get some extra advice.

Recently I have met a large group of people who all have been interested in playing a TTRPG. So I recommended Pathfinder. Before I realized it we had accrued a group of 12 people. However as nobody else has any experience or materials the job of DM has fallen to me. There is literally nobody else who can fill in the DM role and the time is restricted to one specific date. I want to know if it is even possible for this to be pulled off. And if it can be how as I don't know how to balance something for this many people at the same time. I feel like large amounts of weak enemies would result in a heavily bogged down game but a few strong enemies would easily kill a few party members per encounter.

TLDR; Is it possible to balance a game for 12 people and if so how?

Thanks in advance.

I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:

It wouldn't sound unreasonable for them to wind up a Chaotic (as opposed to celestial or fiendish) planetouched - I forget if Paizo has created any of those yet, though.

one novel series I read speculated that the offspring of angels and demons were fey.

Someones been reading the mortal instruments.

Aelryinth and Bandw2 you guys are WAAAAAAAAAY off topic. Maybe you should make a new thread? If you two keep this up this thread will probably get locked.

Anyway I feel like the monk could be fixed by just increasing amount of Ki, wis to hit and damage bonus=monklvl and giving one half movement speed while flurrying instead of being limited to a 5-foot step.

So my DM and I got into a debate recently about how the Pathfinder community is very focused on optimization. While he did not seem to believe it at all, and I know that there is a large group of people here who do not care for optimization, but I do want to show him that there is a very large sect of the community dedicated to optimization.

So, I want the community to help me build the most overpowered 3rd level character possible.

While I realize that for a demonstration 3rd level is a bit odd the stipulation was that the community could even make a 3rd level character extremely OP.

Only rules are no gunslingers or third party material no Mythic and a 20 point buy