Design Challenge: Create an Avatar of a God as a PC


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


1 person marked this as a favorite.

As the title. (I'm also unsure what subforum this goes under, so I just put it here.)

If you had to categorize the Pathfinder Gods as playable PCs (thereby labeling them as an Avatar of that deity), how would you go about it?

Here are the design parameters:

-25 Point Buy
-All Core/Featured/Uncommon Races
-Paizo Products only
-Multiclassing, Prestige Classes, and Variant Multiclassing are allowed.
-Unchained Rogue and Summoner are options that automatically replace their standard counterparts. Different Versions of Monk or Barbarian may be selected at the creator's choosing (but not overlapped).
-Alignment must match the deity they are an Avatar of, and count as worshipping themselves, both restrictions for the purposes of abilities and character options available to them.
-Must possess or use their favored weapon. (Divine Fighting Techniques would be preferred, but certainly not required.)
-Must share some (but not all) iconic features of the deity they emulate, and have class features to support their iconicism, either directly or indirectly. For example, Gorum would most likely wear the heaviest/most metal armor.
-Assume you are traveling solo; this means not relying on party members to buff you for determining your viability (though you can count buffs you can give to other characters as part of your overall viability to a given party).
-Min-maxing isn't required, but viability as a generic PC certainly is.

Now, I'm curious to see how these will turn out as character options...


5 people marked this as a favorite.

Can I assume that an entry of "Norgorber is 4 halflings with different classes, all sharing the same black robe and standing on each other's shoulders" would be frowned upon? :P


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Level or level range? As gods are they level 20 automatically, or do you want to imagine them as viable characters at lower levels?

Mythic?


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Tried to keep to spirit of the challenge and didn't over optimise (ha ha with mythic, though sword of valour archetype is subpar...). Didn't use deific obedience as its not properly supported by Herolabs (diverse obedience for this goddess). did try to incorporate feats, magic items and spells. A few things from Legendary Games mythic stuff might have snuck in. Only spell up is greater Heroism, though I improved the enchantment bonus on the Bastion of the Inheritor to a +5.

Iomedae
Female human(Chelaxian) paladin (sword of valor) 20/Champion 10
LG Medium humanoid (human)
Init +27; Senses Perception +29
Aura courage (10 ft.), faith (10 ft.), resolve (10 ft.), righteousness (10 ft.)
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 56, touch 24, flat-footed 53 (+19 armor, +5 deflection, +3 Dex, +5 natural, +6 sacred, +8 shield)
hp 465 (20d10+351)
Fort +30, Ref +19, Will +30; +1 trait bonus vs. evil outsider's spells and effects, +10 bonus vs. mind-affecting effects, +4 morale vs. fear (+6 with some abilities)
Defensive Abilities hard to kill, mythic saving throws, unstoppable; DR 10/evil; Immune charm, compulsion, disease, fear; SR 25
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 70 ft. (50 ft. in armor)
Melee Heart's Edge +40/+40/+40/+40 (1d8+33/17-20 plus 2d6 vs. shapechangers and 2d6 vs. evil)
Special Attacks channel positive energy 11/day (DC 33, 10d6), first into battle, mythic power (23/day, surge +1d12), smite evil 7/day (+13 attack and AC, +24 damage), worthy enemy
Paladin Spell-Like Abilities (CL 20th; concentration +33)
At will—detect evil
Paladin (Sword of Valor) Spells Prepared (CL 17th; concentration +30)
4th—greater angelic aspect, crusader's edge[M] (DC 27), divine power[M], eaglesoul[M], guardian of faith[ACG], litany of vengeance[M,UC]
3rd—archon's aura[M,UM] (DC 26), daylight, dispel magic[M], good hope[M] (2), sanctify weapons
2nd—inheritor's smite[M] (3), light of iomedae (DC 25), martyr's bargain, sacred bond[APG] (2, DC 25)
1st—divine favor[M] (5), lesser restoration[M] (2), tactical acumen[UC]
M mythic spell
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 30, Dex 18, Con 29, Int 24, Wis 20, Cha 36
Base Atk +20; CMB +34; CMD 55
Feats: Dazzling Display, Divine Fighting Technique (iomedae's Inspiring Sword), Dual Path[M], Hands Of Valor, Improved Critical (longsword), Iron Will[M], Mythic Spell Lore[M], Power Attack[M], Protector's Strike, Shield Focus, Toughness[M], Unsanctioned Knowledge[UM], Unsanctioned Knowledge[UM], Weapon Focus (longsword)
Traits: arodenite sword training, purity of faith
Skills Acrobatics +4 (+12 to jump), Appraise +11, Bluff +17, Climb +10, Diplomacy +40, Disguise +17, Escape Artist +4, Fly +24, Heal +32, Intimidate +17, Knowledge (nobility) +34, Knowledge (religion) +34, Perception +29, Profession (soldier) +32, Ride +27, Sense Motive +32, Spellcraft +34, Stealth +4, Survival +9, Swim +10
Languages Abyssal, Celestial, Common, Elven, Halfling
SQ adamantine mind[MA], amazing initiative, armored might[MA], divine bond (angelic spirit [4/day] 4/day), divine source[MA], divine source[MA], fleet charge[MA], force of will, holy champion, immortal, impossible speed[MA], lay on hands 23/day (10d6), legendary champion, legendary hero, mercies (diseased, ensorcelled, fatigued, injured, poisoned), mortal herald, mythic smite[MA], prayer of the fourth act, precision[MA], precision[MA], precision[MA], recuperation, sudden block[MA]
Other Gear +5 mithral full plate, bastion of the inheritor[MA], Heart's Edge, amulet of natural armor +5, belt of physical perfection +6, boots of striding and springing, cape of free will +5/+6[MA], headband of mental superiority +6, mantle of the crusader host, ring of freedom of movement, ring of protection +5, silver smite bracelet[APG]
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
+2 sacred to Cha-based skill/ability (8/day) (Su) Apply +2 sacred bonus to a single Cha-based skill or ability check.
Adamantine Mind (Ex) +10 to save vs. mind-affecting, and if you succeed the attacker is stunned 1 rd (Will neg).
Amazing Initiative (1/round) (Ex) As a free action, use 1 power to gain an extra standard action (can't be used to cast a spell).
Aura of Courage +4 (10 ft.) (Su) Allies in aura gain a morale bonus to saves vs. fear.
Aura of Faith (10 ft.) (Su) Attacks vs. foes in range bypass DR as good-aligned. Own attacks always count as good.
Aura of Resolve +4 (10 ft.) (Su) Allies in aura gain a morale bonus to saves vs. charm.
Aura of Righteousness +4 (10 ft.) (Su) Allies in aura gain a morale bonus to saves vs. compulsion.
Damage Reduction (10/evil) You have Damage Reduction against all except Evil attacks.
Dazzling Display (Longsword) Intimidate check to demoralize can affect those within 30' who see you.
Detect Evil (At will) (Sp) You can use detect evil at will (as the spell).
Divine Bond (Angelic, 4/day) +8 (Su) As a standard action, halo sheds light and grants enhanced protection from evil to allies in 20 ft.
Divine Fighting Technique (Iomedae's Inspiring Sword, Advanced) (full rd action, 30 feet, 5 rounds) Longsword display grants allies in range +2 sacred bonus to atk, saves, and skill checks for duration.
Divine Source (3 domains, 2 subdomains) (Su) You can grant divine spells to those who follow your cause.
First Into Battle (Su) Spend 1 use of smite evil or lay on hands to act in surprise round, even if surprised.
Fleet Charge (Ex) As a swift action, use 1 power to move speed & attack (+10 bonus, bypass all DR).
Force of Will (Ex) As an immediate action, use 1 power to reroll any d20, or force non-mythic to reroll.
Hands of Valor +13 (1/day) Lay on hands grants creature bonus on attacks and saves vs. fear for 1 minute.
Hard to Kill (Ex) Automatically stabilize when dying, and only die at neg Con x 2.
Holy Champion (Su) Smite evil banishes evil outsiders, channel energy/lay on hands healing is Maximized.
Immortal (Su) Ressurrect next day, unless killed by an artifact's crit.
Immunity to Charm You are immune to charm effects.
Immunity to Compulsion You are immune to compulsion.
Immunity to Disease You are immune to diseases.
Immunity to Fear (Ex) You are immune to all fear effects.
Impossible Speed (+100 feet) (Ex) Spend 1 power to increase speed by 10 ft/tier for 1 hour.
Iron Will [Mythic] Roll Will save vs. spells, Sp, or Su abilities from non-mythic foe twice (take higher).
Lay on Hands (10d6 hit points, 23/day).
Legendary Champion (Ex) On a miss against a non-mythic foe, reroll and take 2nd result. Activate when roll 20 to regain 1 power.
Legendary Hero (Su) One use of mythic power is regained each hr.
Mercy (Diseased) (Su) When you use your lay on hands ability, it also removes disease, as per the remove disease spell at a caster level of your Paladin level.
Mercy (Ensorcelled) (Su) Remove effects of hostile spells as dispel magic spell.
Mercy (Fatigued) (Su) When you use your lay on hands ability, it also removes the fatigued condition.
Mercy (Injured) (10 rounds) (Su) Target gains fast healing 3 for duration.
Mercy (Poisoned) (Su) When you use your lay on hands ability, it also neutralizes poisons, as per the neutralize poison spell at a caster level of your Paladin level.
Mortal Herald (Iomedae, Heroism, 1/day) (Sp) Spend 1 power to cast spell from domain lower than your tier as spell-like ability.
Mythic Saving Throws (Ex) A successful save negates all effects from a non-mythic source.
Mythic Smite (Su) Recover 1 smite w/mythic power, attacks vs. evil creatures bypass DR for rest of turn.
Mythic Spell Lore [Mythic] Gain mythic spells equal to your mythic tier.
Paladin Channel Positive Energy 10d6 (11/day, DC 33) (Su) Positive energy heals the living and harms the undead; negative has the reverse effect.
Power Attack [Mythic] Use 1 power to eliminate attack penalties of Power attack for 1 min.
Prayer of the Fourth Act 10d6 (Su) Spend one minute in prayer and a use of channel energy to grant creatures in burst 10d6 temporary hp.
Protector's Strike When you smite evil, your divine power protects a creature within line of sight.

Prerequisite: Smite evil class feature, base attack bonus +5.

Benefit: When you choose the target of your smite evil ability, you also choose one cre
Recuperation (Ex) Fully heal after 8 hrs rest, use 1 power and 1 hr to heal half and restore all non-mythic abilities.
Repentance (3/day, DC 16) (Su) Target evil creature with a forced repentance effect (Will neg).
Searing Radiance (1/day, DC 22) (Su) Create globe of radiance as sunburst (Ref partial).
Smite Evil (7/day) (Su) +13 to hit, +24 to damage, +13 deflection bonus to AC when used.
Spell Resistance (25) You have Spell Resistance.
Sudden Block (Su) As an imm action, use 1 power to add +10 to own/adj ally AC vs. a melee att & foe must rolls 2x (take low). Make return att (bypass all DR).
Surge (1d12) (Su) Use 1 power to increase any d20 roll by the listed amount.
Toughness [Mythic] Gain DR 10/epic when below 0 hit points.
Unstoppable (Ex) As a free action, use 1 power to end one listed condition on yourself.
Worthy Enemy (DC 33) (Su) Compel foes critically hit by a smite to surrender.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I never could get past the notion of losing divine grace....


1 person marked this as a favorite.

40 levels in what ever classes they want and 10 mythic ranks, they use what ever race they want as the vessel for a god 25 point buy is heretical, 18s in all stats base is minimum also normal summoner would also be on the table a god isn't going to waste their power on unchained summoner abilities when they can have normal summoner abilities also tack on the instrument of the gods template and another 6 cr worth of templates that are relate able to the god


Evelyn Jones wrote:
Can I assume that an entry of "Norgorber is 4 halflings with different classes, all sharing the same black robe and standing on each other's shoulders" would be frowned upon? :P

While that's a comical portrayal of the deity, you'd also have a hard time trying to put them all in the same square without special features permitting them (such as the kind that Ratfolk have, and that's limited to 2). So, I wouldn't rely on that sort of thing.

@ AVR: I stated the level increments would be 1st (which I'm probably going to scrap since some builds won't be "online" by this point), 5th, and every 5 levels thereafter, so concept writeups that test their abilities at those levels would be ideal, both for time investment and for comparison between deities.

While Mythic would be a fair assumption, I'd prefer to go without it here, since Mythic isn't a very popular rules set that isn't really permitted except for a few APs, and not everybody runs those APs. (Unchained is more popular than it, actually, and a lot more applicable to a given scenario than Mythic is.) Even if it would make sense here, I find the palatability of playing the character is more valuable than an unpopular rules set to better reflect their supposed power.

@ The Purity of Violence: I suppose I should've clarified before (I didn't think I had to since Mythic isn't really on the table unless people say it is), but no Mythic options are permitted. The idea is that the PC is playable across most every table, not in Mythic campaigns.

@ Lady-J: I set the design parameters the way I did for a reason: The character can still be playable in a campaign while still emulating major aspects of a deity. (Even the 25 Point Buy is a little much, and I probably still regret making it that high since few tables allow 25 Point Buy, and 20 Point Buy is the norm.) Making up your own ridiculously broken restrictions in an attempt to hijack the thread to suit your own outlandish standards is just a plain dick move.


Can I give deities their own Divine Fighting Technique?
edit: Neevermind, was multitasking. treat this as a dot.


Haywire build generator wrote:
Can I give deities their own Divine Fighting Technique?
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
-Must possess or use their favored weapon. (Divine Fighting Techniques would be preferred, but certainly not required.)


A quick addendum to the design parameters, the characters are permitted the standard of two traits at the beginning. Sorry if I forgot to mention this.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
@ AVR: I stated the level increments would be 1st (which I'm probably going to scrap since some builds won't be "online" by this point), 5th, and every 5 levels thereafter, so concept writeups that test their abilities at those levels would be ideal, both for time investment and for comparison between deities.

Fine, but the above quote is actually the first time you stated this in this thread.

Bags Cayden Cailean.


Paizo must've ate that part of the post. Their logins and such have been glitchy, so it might have slipped through the cracks. My bad on that then.

I planned on making an example character, but Paizo ate that post too. RIP in pepperonis.


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

@ Lady-J: I set the design parameters the way I did for a reason: The character can still be playable in a campaign while still emulating major aspects of a deity. (Even the 25 Point Buy is a little much, and I probably still regret making it that high since few tables allow 25 Point Buy, and 20 Point Buy is the norm.) Making up your own ridiculously broken restrictions in an attempt to hijack the thread to suit your own outlandish standards is just a plain dick move.

having a game were players play the avatars of deities also does not follow the "standard" "rules" of "most" groups, gods have immeasurable power and even with just putting a fraction of that power into an avatar they would still be a very potent force to be reckoned with and would probably be bare minimum a cr 60 creature unless its some super weak avatar, trying to place "standard" rules on something like this would not only reduce the effect of whats trying to be done(allow players to play as gods with a bit more limits on their powers) but also do the gods an injustice by having them be so weak


Considering that they don't get anything more than a typical PC would, I'd say that it most certainly does follow most standard rules, especially with the restrictions I placed.

CR 60 is quite an arbitrary number, and also something that's unrealistic at 99% of tables. If I let players reach that level, literally anything I throw at them won't work, which puts me at a "Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies" situation.

A better way to look at this is that it's the Gods as Pcs, before they became Gods. In other words, you're trying to build the Gods up to the point to where they achieved Godhood.


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

CR 60 is quite an arbitrary number, and also something that's unrealistic at 99% of tables. If I let players reach that level, literally anything I throw at them won't work, which puts me at a "Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies" situation.

just because you cant take the easy way of pulling monsters directly from the bestiary doesn't mean nothing will work, at epic levels of play things need to be crafted by hand or you will need to look long and hard for high enough cr creatures, some one has probably made some cr 70-100 things that you can borrow.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Lady-J wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

CR 60 is quite an arbitrary number, and also something that's unrealistic at 99% of tables. If I let players reach that level, literally anything I throw at them won't work, which puts me at a "Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies" situation.

just because you cant take the easy way of pulling monsters directly from the bestiary doesn't mean nothing will work, at epic levels of play things need to be crafted by hand or you will need to look long and hard for high enough cr creatures, some one has probably made some cr 70-100 things that you can borrow.

Alright, that's it. I've seen you around these boards long enough and I'm fed up, all you do is advocate for extremely overpowered play and needlessly dump on other people when they try and do things any way but your way. You are a child that gets toxic when other people have "badwrongfun." You need to take a long look at the things you post and understand that you're constantly being a jackass.

OP is obviously looking for fun build that help to emulate an avatar of a deity because he wants some statblocks that he can actually USE. And I'd be willing to guess that he wants these to be playable and viable as a PC build too. Just because you think that they are very underpowered given what an avatar of a deity would be does not mean you need to argue about it, it means you ignore the thread and move on.

And that is what I strongly suggest you do, LEAVE.


I have a hunch that an "avatar" might be the wrong term for what you are looking for, as it often describes a CR 40+ appearance of an even more powerful deity. Unascended mortal, maybe?


"Avatar", per pathfinder, is a CR 15 (or 25 if you're the tarrasque) mortal representation of a god. See things like Mother's Maw, Grim White Stag, and so on.


fearcypher wrote:
OP is obviously looking for fun build that help to emulate an avatar of a deity because he wants some statblocks that he can actually USE. And I'd be willing to guess that he wants these to be playable and viable as a PC build too.

just because something is higher level does not mean its not viable, and something like this should not just be chalked up as some other campaign it should be carefully build and would be on a much higher playing field then any campaigns ever seen, its playing gods not playing joe smoe the farmer who decided to pick up adventuring on a whim, it should be something super special and one of the most grand adventures one can possibly throw together.

altho now that i think about it, introducing 3.5s gestalt system would cut the cr of it by 19 points making it a little easier to digest.


I'm definitely thinking an Exploiter Wizard would be really thematically appropriate for Nethys, though to get the whole healing with one hand and destroying with another, you'd need to go Mystic Theurge, I suspect.

Potato disciple wrote:
"Avatar", per pathfinder, is a CR 15 (or 25 if you're the tarrasque) mortal representation of a god. See things like Mother's Maw, Grim White Stag, and so on.

Hm? I thought those were the deities' Heralds, and that PF doesn't have rules to handle avatars except as, like, visions or dreams people might get that are made of narrativium and they can't act during.

Either way, avatar is a complete misnomer for what OP wants, but it gets the idea across to some extent at least.

Why OP is invested in them being potentially played by some of their actual players at their actual table is somewhat curious though, I must admit, but maybe I misinterpreted them. If that was the case, that definitely should have been in the first post, but then it seems a lot of the first post got mangled somehow anyway, so maybe it originally was going to be.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

One version of Cayden Cailean might be a pure fighter or swashbuckler. I'm aiming for something else: his brewmaster PrC. To get that we'll need levels in alchemist or something as well. If this isn't the sort of description you're after let me know.

L5: Human Swashbuckler 1 / Alchemist 4.
Str 14, Dex 15+1=16, Con 16+2=18, Int 12+2=14 Wis 7, Cha 14 (knock a couple off Con if 20-point buy)
Feats: TWF, Divine Fighting Technique (CC), Throw Anything (B), Brew Potion (B), Dirty Fighting, Improved Dirty Trick
Discoveries: Spontaneous Healing, Healing Touch
Traits: Fortified Drinker, Fencer
Gear: Carouser's Retort, normal tankard (as light mace), Headband of Vast Intelligence +2, Mithral Shirt, potions of Fly & Heroism.
Notable extracts: 2: Alchemical Allocation, 1: Cure Light Wounds, Tears to Wine, Shield

At 5th level CC uses TWF for dirty tricks or damage as seems most useful. He can soak a reasonable amount of damage with the parry, 18 Con & spontaneous healing, and with a little prep he can fly or use heroism. I'd call the fire bombs 'volatile alcohol'.

L10: Human Swashbuckler 1 / Alchemist 4 / Brewmaster 5
Str 14, Dex 18, Con 18, Int 15, Wis 7, Cha 14
Helpful Homebrew effects: Tenacious Spell, Extend Spell
Harmful Homebrew effects: Prone
Feats: + Quick Draw, Improved TWF
Gear: Carouser's Retort (upgraded to +1 keen), Cailean Fighting Tankard, Monkey Belt, Headband of Vast Intelligence +2, +1 Mithral Shirt, Cloak of Resistance +4, Ring of Protection +1, Stagger-Proof Boots, Handy Haversack, potions of Barkskin, Cure Serious Wounds, Fly, Heroism, Magic Circle vs. Evil, Tongues, some cheap poisons (for use on self!).
Notable extracts: + 3: Amplify Elixir, 2: Invigorating Poison, Lesser Restoration

Similar tactics except with the monkey belt / quick draw the action economy is a little friendlier if he needs to switch hit. Also his extracts can be buffed noticeably by the brewmaster abilities and the bombs a bit. Invigorating poison + using mild poisons on himself is another sort of buff.

L15: Human Swashbuckler 1 / Alchemist 4 / Brewmaster 10
Str 14, Dex 22, Con 18, Int 18, Wis 7, Cha 18
Helpful Homebrew effects: + Fleeting Spell, Empower Spell, Maximise Spell
Harmful Homebrew effects: + Confused, Nauseated
Feats + Greater Dirty Trick, Improved Critical (rapier), Dirty Trick Master
Gear: Carouser's Retort (upgraded to +5), Cailean Fighting Tankard (upgraded to +3), Monkey Belt (upgraded to +6), Headband of Mental Prowess (Int, Cha) +4, Celestial Armor, Cloak of Resistance +5, Ring of Protection +3, Stagger-Proof Boots, Handy Haversack, even more potions, Plume of Panache.
Notable extracts: + 5: Resurgent Transformation, 4: Caustic Blood, Fluid Form

The dirty tricks get scarily effective, caustic blood (& possibly other buffs) become amazing with empower and/or maximise (the cost doesn't come as a spell level increase), and he gets better with the rapier especially. While the bombs won't do much damage they come with nasty debuffs.

L20: Human Swashbuckler 1 / Alchemist 9 / Brewmaster 10
Str 14, Dex 22, Con 24, Int 22, Wis 13, Cha 20
Feats: + Improved Disarm, Disarming Strike
Discoveries: + Elemental Mutagen, Remedy Extract
Lots and lots of gear.
Notable Extracts: + 6: Heal, True Seeing, Twin Form

Level 20 is beyond my experience and working out an equipment list would take forever. With 6th level extracts he should be effective if no full caster.


Lady-J wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

CR 60 is quite an arbitrary number, and also something that's unrealistic at 99% of tables. If I let players reach that level, literally anything I throw at them won't work, which puts me at a "Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies" situation.

just because you cant take the easy way of pulling monsters directly from the bestiary doesn't mean nothing will work, at epic levels of play things need to be crafted by hand or you will need to look long and hard for high enough cr creatures, some one has probably made some cr 70-100 things that you can borrow.

Paizo hasn't made CR 60 creatures. In fact, nobody has published CR 60 creatures. CR 30 is the highest Paizo published CR, usually for unique creatures, and the highest 3PP CR is 39. So yes, CR 60 is stupidly high and arbitrary, and probably only feasible at your table where you throw those kinds of creatures at your party.

Last I checked, I didn't make this thread to try and play at your table, or even ask your opinion about my own design parameters, and it's extremely rude for you to try and hijack/derail the thread with that mindset, which does nothing but confuse people and make them not want to post out of their confusion.

I'll ask you one last time, respectfully, to stop hijacking the thread, or I'll proceed to flag all of your posts in this thread as irrelevant spam to the discussion. I made the parameters I created for a reason; to have these characters palatable across most modes of play. If people want to ask questions about those parameters (in the event I forgot stuff, which I have), that's fine. Storming in here and trying to override my parameters because you disagree with them and the reasons why I made them, is absolutely not fine, because that's not what I was asking for.


qaplawjw wrote:
I have a hunch that an "avatar" might be the wrong term for what you are looking for, as it often describes a CR 40+ appearance of an even more powerful deity. Unascended mortal, maybe?

As I've stated with Lady-J, there's nothing in the game that's published beyond CR 40, even with 3PP creatures in place, so that's all kinds of wrong.

For what I meant when I say "Avatar," I think of it as a deity having so much power that they create "mini-me's" across some or all planes of existence in an attempt to further their own agendas, due that their actual presence on a plane would disrupt the very fabric of the plane they'd inhabit (since them even existing permits the use of divine magic).

They are so powerful that even by not being there, they influence the world through their worshippers and servants, but certain tasks may require a more "direct" approach, but they cannot do so for fear of imbalancing the universe negatively (such as inadvertantly opening the Worldwound with their powerful presence breaching into the plane).

Hence the creation of Avatars in an attempt to change the world to suit their agenda, without the added risk of jeopardizing it with their full godly power.


@ AVR: Beautiful representation, definitely captures his brewmeister side, and a lot of what I'm looking for. Well done.

The Exchange

2 people marked this as a favorite.

At first I thought a straightforward Urban Druid-Balanced Scale of Abadar or even Cleric-Balanced Scale would work. Then I thought about Ranger (Urban Ranger) 10 + Balanced Scale and realized that a "young" Abadar has to go about making a vault, a museum, of all sorts of items. Which means going out from Axis on collection expeditions. So that is where the young adventurer Abadar came into mind. It's a bit of fun, probably more appropriate to playing in a party, but with a pretty epic goal already established from level one.

"Abby" Abadar
Level 1 Snapshot: Human Inquisitor (Sanctified Slayer, Urban Infiltrator) 1, Recovery Inquisition
STR: 12 DEX: 15 CON: 12 INT: 12 WIS: 18 CHA: 12
(Human +2 into Wis from 16) 25pt buy; for 20, drop Dex to 14 and Wis to 17)
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
Traits: Eye for Quality (Religion), Birthmark (Faith)
Notable Gear: Light Crossbow, Buckler, Dagger
Notable Spells: Divine Favor, Comprehend Languages
Skills: Diplomacy, Bluff, Know: Local, Know: Noble, Sense Motive, Perception, Disable Device, Survival

Spoiler:
At level 1 "Abby" Abadar is off on her adventure to collect copies of everything under creation in order to create the First Vault in Axis!
She is very adept at fishing out rumors or descriptions of such legendary things, thanks to Gifted Detective and her diplomacy score, which will get her enough information to perform a Focused Search for the legendary object.
Naturally she will use Guidance to help her in all her preparations and tracking. Read Magic/Detect Magic will help her find and decipher any magical items. Of course, while asking about for information on these artifacts, should she learn of any trouble in the local community, she will offer up her legal expertise and ability to help mediate any trouble or correct wrongdoing. Studied Target and Stern Gaze will help in a pinch, to make sure she is getting the truth, and will hopefully dissuade anyone from becoming violent, should a confrontation turn so. Studied Target also will help her combat ability, should it come to it.
Light Crossbow +2(+3) 1d8+1(+2) (studied bonus)
Level two will bring about more abilities with Detect Alignment to help locate magical artifacts quickly and now with Track and Focused Search, she is ready to truly start collecting!
Comprehend Languages will get her far in her wide search. Cure Light Wounds is not bad for helping others or herself. Divine Favor is her combat buff of choice.

Level 5 Snapshot: Inquisitor 5
STR: 12 DEX: 15 CON: 12 INT: 12 WIS: 19 CHA: 12
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Reload, Rapid Shot, Coordinated Shot, Precise Strike OR Covering Fire
Notable Gear: Judge's Breastplate, improve Wis/Dex with items and the usual increases to light crossbow and armor enhancement

Spoiler:
By this point her her career, "Abby" Abadar is a bit fed up with misinformation and the corruption she's seen in her travel. She has become very skilled with her crossbow and can handle herself in an alleyway brawl if forced to fall back on her knife.
She gets a lot of mileage out of studied target and Bane, letting her hit a lot harder with her crossbow or amplifying her damage with a dagger in melee. Discern Lies will help her not be fooled by corrupt officials or mislead with false information as she seeks out new treasures to add to the now-growing vault back in Axis.
Tongues now lets her discuss her dealings with anyone on the plane, though Voluminous Vocabulary may provide a more useful benefit due to the longer lasting timeframe.

8th Level Snapshot: Crossbow Mastery, Slayer Talent: Trapfinding
By 8th level she has become a master of spotting and disarming traps, whether they be guarding the fantastic objects she searches for, or are mere bandit traps waiting to snare travelers. Her ability to also locate an object or person with Locate Focus now comes truly into being.

Level 10 Snapshot: Inquisitor 10
STR: 12 DEX: 15 CON: 12 INT: 12 WIS: 20 CHA: 12
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Reload, Rapid Shot, Coordinated Shot, Precise Strike OR Covering Fire, Crossbow Mastery, Slayer Talent: Trapfinding, Enfilading Fire OR Outflank, Extra Slayer Talent: Ranger Combat Style: Improved Precise Shot

Spoiler:
Greater Invisibility lets her escape from most things, and if they are too persistent will let her exploit her sneak attack -errr, "precision" damage- for painful regrets with her light crossbow. It is also useful for investigations and fact-finding missions.
Divination may help her plan her next move to find the object she seeks.
Divine Power helps her truly flex her muscles in combat now should the need arise.
Mostly combat damage is Light Crossbow Rapid Shot with Bane, Divine Favor, Greater Invisibility stacks Sneak Attack damage. She should be able to handle her Vault-Collecting better than Indiana Jones by this point.

Level 12 Snapshot: Inquisitor 11, Balanced Scale of Abadar 1
STR: 12 DEX: 15 CON: 12 INT: 12 WIS: 21 CHA: 12
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Reload, Rapid Shot, Coordinated Shot, Precise Strike OR Covering Fire, Crossbow Mastery, Slayer Talent: Trapfinding, Enfilading Fire OR Outflank, Extra Slayer Talent: Ranger Combat Style: Improved Precise Shot, Extra Slayer Talent: Rogue Talent: Favored Terrain (Urban)

Spoiler:
The Vault is becoming a reality, thanks to all of her adventuring this far. Abadar's work is beginning to precede her now, though her fame is beginning to cause trouble. She uses "A Thousand Faces" to assume whatever form is most appropriate for the community in which she next travels, which is where the rumor that Abadar is a man has started to travel. That is little more than a distraction for her though, as there is no vault that can withstand her search!
Mechanically at this point, she has taken the appropriate prestige class "Divine Assessor" (Balanced Scale of Abadar).

Level 15 Snapshot: Inquisitor 11, Balanced Scale of Abadar 4
STR: 12 DEX: 15 CON: 12 INT: 12 WIS: 21 CHA: 12
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Reload, Rapid Shot, Coordinated Shot, Precise Strike OR Covering Fire, Crossbow Mastery, Slayer Talent: Trapfinding, Enfilading Fire OR Outflank, Extra Slayer Talent: Ranger Combat Style: Improved Precise Shot, Extra Slayer Talent: Rogue Talent: Favored Terrain (Urban), Extra Slayer Talent: Ranger Combat Style: Pinpoint Targeting, Divine Fighting Technique: Abadar's Crossbow.

Spoiler:
The Vault in Axis has added quite a few items now, enough that Abadar's link to it allows her to access some of these items as need be, with her "Access the Vault" ability. Dimensional space is something she is achieving greater mastery over, with "Bottomless Bag" and her mastery of speech is further enhanced by "Eloquent Bargainer".
Hallow now lets her start setting up locations for temples and more vaults. Geas/Quest is an appropriate way to help solve problems.

Level 17 Snapshot: Inquisitor 11, Balanced Scale of Abadar 6
STR: 12 DEX: 15 CON: 12 INT: 12 WIS: 22 CHA: 12

Spoiler:
Abadar's Vault has truly taken form! She can now teleport out of trouble whenever need be, or use it as a gateway to dimension door away/into some place. Level 6 spells come online as well, and with Measured Response she can guarantee the average damage which is pretty high (4-5 attacks with rapid shot/greater invisibility for bane+sneak attack with divine power as a buff). She can pull items out of the Vault if she needs to, as well.

Level 20 Snapshot: Inquisitor 14, Balanced Scale of Abadar 6
STR: 12 DEX: 16 CON: 12 INT: 12 WIS: 22 CHA: 12

Spoiler:
Greater Bane on her +5 Light Crossbow lets her hit 1d8+4d6, if she happens to have Greater Invisibility, she rapid shots Greater Bane for 1d8+4d6(greater bane)+4d6 (sneak attack)+5 (enhancement)+3(studied target) for 5 attacks;
Divine Power gives her +6 accuracy and +6 damage luck based, or another 30 damage = ~272.5 damage/round
note, this assume no other enhancements to her crossbow, like flaming/frost/holy/axiomatic
Legend Lore will round out the rest of her needs for tracking down items. Every week she can pull out a magic item of 9,500gp or nonmagical item of similar value out of the vault. 2 feats and an extra teamwork feat from levels 17-20 weren't accounted for, so they can be used to pick up something else.

Some different options: Druid (Urban Druid) 6, Balanced Scale of Abadar 6, then finish with more Druid.

Thoughts: A Thousand Faces is pretty ideal for a deity of communities/civilizations, as is getting an appropriate domain, the ability to assume the form of an eagle with wildshape later fits into Abadar's lore. Downside is that the iconic Gold Breastplate just can't be worn by a druid, which isn't terrible if just adding Glammered to some armor to make it look like it. Skill points are pretty hard to come by.

Another option: Ranger (Urban Ranger) 10, Balanced Scale of Abadar 6, finish with Ranger

Thoughts: More martial version that can do Rogue things in the party. Pretty weak spellcasting though, but can have a decent eagle companion or something. Certain skills like Appraise are missing until pretty late.

Shaman 5 Balanced Scale of Abadar 6 Shaman finish
Thoughts: A lot of nice abilities, especially the Lore/Slums spirits. This is potentially workable too, though skills and feats will be rough.

Somehow it just felt like the Inquisitor abilities all melded well into the concept of someone collecting everything into a vault all while righting wrongs and helping people in towns/cities along the way.


Another great entry, with equally fitting alternative options, no less.

To fix the "iconic gold breastplate" for your Druid build, consider a Dragonhide Breastplate using Gold Dragon Scales; it's probably the closest you're going to get. The Depiction of Abadar can certainly support that sort of item if the dragonscales are of exceptional size and pristine condition...

While Gold Dragons are considered Lawful Good (meaning acquiring it through killing a Gold Dragon wouldn't necessarily be within Abadar's desires), it could be the result of a befriended creature that gave its life to protect his city from a catastrophe, wearing its scales in honor and remembrance of that tragic event.

In other news, I was going to construct an Avatar of Desna build for an added sample, but I hit a bit of a snag in how I want to design it. The biggest hang-up is if I want to utilize the relevant PrC or not (most other builds have done so thus far, I'd feel like I cheated if I didn't). Granted, I could make an alternative build as others have done, but I'm unsure if I really want to, since it might not even function that well due to added MADness and conflicting issues. I'll think about it later, but I probably won't be able to post it until Tuesday night due to life responsibilities.


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
qaplawjw wrote:
I have a hunch that an "avatar" might be the wrong term for what you are looking for, as it often describes a CR 40+ appearance of an even more powerful deity. Unascended mortal, maybe?

As I've stated with Lady-J, there's nothing in the game that's published beyond CR 40, even with 3PP creatures in place, so that's all kinds of wrong.

For what I meant when I say "Avatar," I think of it as a deity having so much power that they create "mini-me's" across some or all planes of existence in an attempt to further their own agendas, due that their actual presence on a plane would disrupt the very fabric of the plane they'd inhabit (since them even existing permits the use of divine magic).

They are so powerful that even by not being there, they influence the world through their worshippers and servants, but certain tasks may require a more "direct" approach, but they cannot do so for fear of imbalancing the universe negatively (such as inadvertantly opening the Worldwound with their powerful presence breaching into the plane).

Hence the creation of Avatars in an attempt to change the world to suit their agenda, without the added risk of jeopardizing it with their full godly power.

then it seems you are looking at making vessels of gods and not avatars which would fit with in the stated perimeters as vessels are people born into the world and are highly attuned with their deity and will allow their deity to even possess them(the god taking over the body of the mortal) to go out and do what ever it is that the god needs done

vessel of asmodeous
demon spawn teifling(i know devil spawn would be more thematic but it sucks for an anti paladin)
levels full progression in tyrant anti paladin
str 18, dex 10, con 14, int 8(or 12), wis 10, cha 18(or 16)
alternate racial traits- bilingual liar +4 bluff, prehensile tail and maw or claw
traits traveling merchant(+1 to bluff, appraise and sense motive), ambassador(+2 diplomacy)
weapon heavy mace(wiki doesn't say weather its a heavy or light mace as the favored weapon so seeing as how this is a vessel for asmodeous they are going to use the obvious loop hole and get the better weapon)
level 1 power attack (or noble scion war if this is taken just shift all feats down)
level 3 greater mercy
level 4 attribute to cha
level 5 extra lay on hands dont know weather or not asmodeous would prefer making himself more powerful with fiendish boon or have an outsider minion)
level 7 ultimate mercy (easy way to raise people excellent exploit for making contracts or getting extra money)
level 8 attribute to str
level 9 armor of the pit
level 11 defiant luck
level 12 attribute to str
level 13 iron will
level 15 improved iron will(or extra lay on hands for more charges)
level 16 attribute to str
level 17 extra lay on hands
level 19 extra lay on hands
level 20 attribute to str

vessel of pharasma
human
ranger(corpse hunter archetype) vmc fighter
str 19, dex 16, con 14, int 7, wis 14, cha 7
traits-searing beacon(wis to damage on a crit vs undead), undead crusader (+1 to damage vs undead and +1 to knowledge religion and its a class skill)
weapons 2 daggers
level 1 twf, weapon focus
level 2 double slice
level 3 bravery, endurance
level 4 attribute to str
level 5 favored defence
level 6 improved two weapon fighting
level 7 armor training 1
level 8 attribute to str
level 9 piranha strike
level 10 greater two weapon fighting
level 11 weapon training
level 12 attribute to str
level 13 advanced weapon training focused weapon(sacred weapon bonus damage)
level 14 two weapon rend
level 15 armor training 2
level 16 attribute to str
level 17 any other viable feat
level 18 two weapon defence
level 19 weapon training 2
level 20 attribute to str


The thread We Once Were Gods may be of interest. It posits a campaign in which the PCs are reborn deities attempting to regain their place in the cosmos.

There was another thread on a similar topic that had a spectacular account of a campaign in which the PCs were all re-awakening gods who had no idea that's what they were. If I recall correctly, it was set in America in the mid-19th century, and the PCs all burned to death in a hotel fire at the end of Session 1. Session 2 began with them waking from the dead in the morgue, brought back by one PC who was the unknowing reincarnation of a goddess of healing, horribly burned and in agony but alive and slowly regrowing their skin. None of them had any idea what their powers were, or how to use them. The government became VERY interested in finding them and finding out how to use them, forcing them to flee. They got increasingly paranoid and terrified of their own abilities. There may have been something about some kind of spirit under Lake Huron? One of the Great Lakes. It sounded like a really epic campaign.

Fool that I am, I didn't add that post to my favorites, and now I can't find the post again. I just spent an hour and half with Google trying to find that account. Did you know that if you do enough searches on Google with advanced limiters like boolean operators, the site: keyword and phrases in quote marks, eventually Google will refuse to give you search results until you prove that you're really a human? Yeah, I tried that hard to find that post. I hope the person who posted it originally sees this and can tell the story better.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / General Discussion / Design Challenge: Create an Avatar of a God as a PC All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.