Suggestion Spell 2nd level


Rules Questions


Can caster, using suggestion spell,
1) tell party member to "kill their friends, they are conspiring against you", GM said it is not harmful to himself to attack own party.

2) then he does not try to kill them directly but casts a suggestion spell of "go to sleep" to party member engaged in combat? GM said falling asleep is not harmful but then party member was hit with coup de grâce by engaged enemy.

3) allowed to pass through friendly squares, while he is killing "Allies"? or would the parties enemies know be friendly squares and he is no longer able to pass through party squares since he is "killing" them?

4) Use suggestion on another member(summoner)to create pit under himself and Eidolon, when refused it would be hurt full then let spell caster change to "create pit under Eidolon and anther party member" Did not want to cast due to -2 penalty and likely to fall in, then told to move then cast spell.

5) used suggestion spell to tell Eidolon " do not let archer attack me" went to attack and was told I could not still attack because I am not stopping anyone from attacking.

Would like to know if suggestion spell is this strong with DC 20 or higher.


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1) possible, but your GM is defacto correct as they are the GM, though it needs to be clarified that such an ability is capable of such things in advance, if it isn't

2) suggestion can make them try to fall asleep, but it doesn't make them fall asleep; the most reasonable method of making the "sleep" suggestion work would be to finish combat and find a pleasant place to lie down; alternate more "useful" version is to make the character walk away to find some place to nap

3) if he the party believes him to be against them, he is no longer an ally, and thus can provoke

4) that is an obviously self-dangerous (so it wouldn't work), and (to most interpretations I've ever seen) the eidolon is also considered part of the caster (as would be an animal companion, familiar, or other similarly bonded creature) for the purpose of avoiding self-harm, unless the group rules differently;

5) wait, are you the eidolon? A mind-affecting effect affecting your eidolon doesn't affect you (and vice-verse)

... how did you get a DC 20 level 2 spell?

DC 10+spell level+ability score = DC 10+2+5 = DC 17; unless you've got something weird going on (maybe feats to specialize), that's about as high as it gets right now.

Also, how many suggestions does this person have available?

To better clarify, we'll need more context.

- Are you the GM or player?
- What is the nature of the party - how do they relate to each other?
- What is the party makeup, and who is playing what?

With these data points, it may be easier to give you better advice to clarify questions you may have.

EDIT: I wanted to clarify something


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Tacticslion wrote:


... how did you get a DC 20 level 2 spell?

DC 10+spell level+ability score = DC 10+2+5 = DC 17; unless you've got something weird going on (maybe feats to specialize), that's about as high as it gets right now.

A kitsune sorcerer could easily have a DC 20 suggestion at the level they can cast it.

10+2(spell level)+5(20 charisma)+1(Kitsune racial bonus)+1(favored class bonus)+1(spell focus[enchantment])


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I sincerely hope we’re talking about the party taking on a succubus, because that reads like... 5 separate suggestion spells.

Suggestion allows suggesting one course of action. Every time a different suggestion is made, it’s a different spell, and a different standard action to cast it. Even if this is a succubus using her at will spell-like ability, that’s still 5 rounds.

Otherwise, I agree with TL.


fearcypher wrote:
Tacticslion wrote:


... how did you get a DC 20 level 2 spell?

DC 10+spell level+ability score = DC 10+2+5 = DC 17; unless you've got something weird going on (maybe feats to specialize), that's about as high as it gets right now.

A kitsune sorcerer could easily have a DC 20 suggestion at the level they can cast it.

10+2(spell level)+5(20 charisma)+1(Kitsune racial bonus)+1(favored class bonus)+1(spell focus[enchantment])

Ah! Nice build!


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fearcypher wrote:

A kitsune sorcerer could easily have a DC 20 suggestion at the level they can cast it.

10+2(spell level)+5(20 charisma)+1(Kitsune racial bonus)+1(favored class bonus)+1(spell focus[enchantment])

This would be a DC 21 as suggestion for a sorcerer is a level 3 spell.

A fey bloodline sorcerer would add +2 more from bloodline arcana for a DC 23.


Only if they put all of their favored class bonus into it. (Worth doing, but possible that other choices were made.)


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Myth Seeker wrote:

Can caster, using suggestion spell,

1) tell party member to "kill their friends, they are conspiring against you", GM said it is not harmful to himself to attack own party.

Maybe, but you should forge some proof, and the suggestion most certainly won't end in a frontline assault.

If you simply say that without proof, spell will most likely fail. But if you show the target some "proof" (or "examples") that his allies are conspiring, suggestion may work.

Still, be aware that the spell only suggests a course of action, not the way that action has to be done, and of course doesn't make the target stupid. Depending on the class, alignment, abilities... the course of action will be different for every character, and unless a character is sure that the best course of action is an "outnumbered 1 vs X frontal assault", that course of action will never be taken.

Quote:
2) then he does not try to kill them directly but casts a suggestion spell of "go to sleep" to party member engaged in combat? GM said falling asleep is not harmful but then party member was hit with coup de grâce by engaged enemy.

Four words: NO WAY IN HELL.

Remember the rule: The suggestion must be worded in such a manner as to make the activity sound reasonable..

Does "go to sleep" in the middle of a fight sound reasonable? NO.

That would automatically negate the spell.

Quote:
3) allowed to pass through friendly squares, while he is killing "Allies"? or would the parties enemies know be friendly squares and he is no longer able to pass through party squares since he is "killing" them?

Initially yes. Any creature decides whether other creatures are friends or foes, and thus allow them free pass or block them. If you somehow suggest that a former "foe" is now a friend, may change the target's way of thinking allowing the foe free pass.

But if the newly acquired "ally" starts behaving badly against other allies, then the suggestion's target may change her mind again.

Quote:
4) Use suggestion on another member(summoner)to create pit under himself and Eidolon, when refused it would be hurt full then let spell caster change to "create pit under Eidolon and anther party member" Did not want to cast due to -2 penalty and likely to fall in, then told to move then cast spell.

I'd say no in both scenarios.

A suggestion is NOT a command the target is forced to follow. A suggestion is exactly that... a suggestion. It has to make some sense and be useful in the current scenario.

The first scenario will 99% of the time immediately fail because of basic self-preservation, same as a "kill yourself" suggestion. It "might" work in the rare case that where an ancient dragon is about to breathe, so it's either "hide on the pit" or get roasted... but for most other situations, it's a no-go.

The second scenatrrio is slightly more feasible, but in most situations placing a pit under two allies, probably dealing damage to them and removing them from a fight doesn't make much sense. Remember that the suggestion "must sound reasonable".

Quote:
5) used suggestion spell to tell Eidolon " do not let archer attack me" went to attack and was told I could not still attack because I am not stopping anyone from attacking.

Don't quite understand the question here.


Yorien 5)Cast a suggestion spell on a Eidolon, which is to protect me from a certain charter. Can the Eidolon still attack spell caster? Or just stand as body guard against his own ally.

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