RH's page

Organized Play Member. 49 posts. No reviews. 1 list. 2 wishlists. 1 Organized Play character.


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Maybe have Devil's Sight, instead of adding the spell level notation (which I'm not sure how that would apply in 2e), just have it provide normal or Greater Darkvision? Normal can see though a Darkness spell but not a Heightened one. Not sure if Greater Darkvision is too good for a 1st level feat/invocation, so perhaps add Greater Devil's Sight as a higher level option (with the prerequisite of just having Darkvision already so as not to force those who already have Darkvision to waste a low level feat)?

Also, in 2e I don't think Darkvision has a range. Was this intentional?

James Jacobs wrote:
Cole Deschain wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Atavar wrote:
If you have seen it, what did you think of the new movie Joker?
Haven't seen it, but I know that the movie I did see this weekend was better! :P

As a big Lovecraft fan one of my favorite stories is Colour out of Space. Die Farbe (2010) I found to be a great adaptation. Have you seen it and, if so, how do you think the Nic Cage movie compares?

Cool, thanks folks!

I see a few references to Greater Darkvision, such as on page 465 and under the Darkness spell description on page 327. Is it actually defined anywhere? And is there a way for a PC to gain this ability other than via Goggles of Night?

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Samurai wrote:

Since a lot of people seem to be interested in this, I decided to give it a shot myself. This is just version 1.0 right now, I only have the basic Class features down right now. I still need to make Feats as he levels up, but I welcome thoughts, feedback, and ideas!

Samurai's Warlock for Pathfinder 2e version 1.0

Gotta admit I do love the Warlock. More a fan of the original 3.5 version than 5th ed., but there must be a reason so many people are giving this a go.

At a (late night) glance, this looks pretty cool.
Maybe play with the traits of the Eldritch Blast? Would the MAP apply to later levels when getting two or more blasts?
Curious to see the feats you come up with. Been following your various house rule ideas and am a fan of many of them. When I’m able to actually play 2e more I’m sure I’ll want to use a bunch.

Salamileg wrote:
RH wrote:

No Touch AC.

Magic Missile can be foiled by Concealment.

Undead can be affected by mental magic.

Unless they have the Mindless trait, which many of them do.

Yeah, true. Skeletons and Zombies are mindless, all the others so far are fair game.

No Touch AC.

Magic Missile can be foiled by Concealment.

Undead can be affected by mental magic.

Frogliacci wrote:
Have we heard anything from Drop Dead Studios on this topic?

I always was a fan of SoP, sad I never got to play it more. Hope they do something for 2e!

Davido1000 wrote:
Fumarole wrote:
You can copy the files from the PDFs, but I wouldn't call them high resolution. For that matter I wouldn't call the maps for Fantasy Ground high resolution either, at least not for the Rise of the Runelords maps. For me high resolution is sufficient to play at miniatures scale and not be blurry.

Well i use a virtual tabletop and ive infact been using your maps for Age of Ashes so thanks for the save!

When i rip the image and blow it up on the vtt, it just looks horrible but when i played in a starfinder game on Fantasy grounds using the dead suns module, the images looked far sharper than anything i can produce. Rise of the runelords is a pretty old module so i would assume there not up to todays standards.

Yeah the PDF maps are decidedly not high resolution. Some can still be usable for vtt or printing, though they'll be blurry. The 1" = 10' scale maps, however, are just painful to even try. We've been asking for years for Paizo to release the high res maps for sale (I get not for free, but obviously the high res maps exist... I see little reason not to sell them). There was a thread or two back a few years with someone from Paizo commenting, if I recall correctly. I can't recall what their answer was, just that I wasn't satisfied and that we never have been given the chance to buy the maps.

Penthau wrote:

The downside of trying to use a wand more than once per day is that you may waste the spell casting actions in combat and deactivate the wand. A nuisance, but not as negative and extreme as total destruction. The upside is that you may get 1 or more extra uses from the wand before it is deactivated. I thought about making it broken, but that can be fixed in 10 minutes and I figured that was too many potential uses.

I like this idea a lot. I’m not a fan of where they went with wands. I was also under the impression that they were trying to move away from “spells in a stick”, but they kept that and also made it essentially a once a day item. I agree the broken and destroyed ideas seem rather unfun.

Yotebeth wrote:

So, I'm in a pickle!

I started this campaign out in 5th edition, swapped over to the PF playtest....and now we are in PF2e...which is amazing, and my players are having so much fun.

One problem.

The Big Bad is gonna take the form of a 5-headed dragon. Aaaaand, well. 5-headed dragons do not seem to be in Pathfinder. So, I need some help starting out a 5-headed dragon. It's gonna be taken on by 4 20th level players. I'm still very new to PF having never played its first edition so I'm not sure how to even start. Any advice would be super, super awesome!


You can start with the Ancient Red Dragon (level 19) and add some abilities from the Hydra (only a level 6 creature but it has five heads). That should get you pretty far. Take a peek at some other level 20 creatures to make sure it's numbers are relatively close.

New to Pathfinder and running four level 20's? That's brave! Jumping into the deep end there. Good luck!

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Thanks for this! If nothing else, having the errata in one place until Paizo makes a real errata file is very useful.

I like some of what you've done with the other items so far as well.

A couple questions:

First, your spontaneous casters; they would not have to learn the same spell at a higher level in order to heighten it (signature spell notwithstanding)? That solution for them never sat well with me.

Second, What's your thought (if any) on Magic Missile? There is a thread debating if it is subject to the miss chance from Concealed, since it specifically avoids mentioning it in the spell description.

Ageron wrote:
I started looking into Strange Aeons. 2e dopplegangers are no joke.

We’re early in book two right now, and I’m considering converting. I’d already brought in Unchained revised action economy and Automatic Bonus Progression, so the feel of action won’t be a sudden change. Classes and items are pretty different though...

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On a related note, 1e had a bunch of improvised weapon feats (such as Catch off Guard and Throw Anything); I haven’t found anything in the crb that might offer a way to make an improvised weapon fighter, or something to negate the -2 penalty for using improvised weapons. Am I missing anything or has this basically been simplified out of the game (subject of this thread notwithstanding)?

lordcirth wrote:

I tried to post this last week, but the forum ate it.

I ran a session last week (level 1 oneshot, 4 players), and it went well. The biggest problem I noticed is that everyone, including me, found the diagonal movement rules to be cumbersome. I like that it's more realistic, but how much does it really matter in practice? Has anyone tried houseruling 5e-style movement in? Alternatively, what about hexes?

Our group has always ignored the diagonal=extra movement stuff. One square = 5 feet, regardless. I isn't spatially accurate but we've never had it be an issue; all participants in a combat, heroes and villains alike, use the same movement rules so we just don't see a reason to use it. For spell effects we use curved templates, or vtt software, and eyeball the things, so even there have not had a problem making a ruling as to area of effect. We have terrain and maps with grids so hexes (which I do personally like) aren't a good option. To each their own.

Nice work! Darn thorough. I'll definitely take a more in depth look at what you did here. I'm currently toying with the idea to try converting Strange Aeons over to 2e; the traits are one of the first things I need to tackle, it just seems overwhelming!

Molotov wrote:

Haven't had time to really use the pdf just yet or go deep on the various feats and such. From my general read, I'm pretty satisfied with it, even if only as a stop-gap until the official Paizo versions (and even then, good to have options).

I'm curious about this book as well. Let us know how it plays! When I looked at drivethrurpg there were was a review that was concerned about some of the heritage feats being too powerful.

Marcus Gehrcke wrote:
Do Dr. Henri Meirtmane play a roll in the AP?

No real role in the ap. He's mentioned several times in the first book mainly for background flavor and as author of some of the tomes the characters can find in the asylum and a couple found later in the ap.

Samurai wrote:
RH wrote:

Hey gamers! I redid the first page of the 2E character sheet for my own use. It's not perfect, but the main goal was to be utilitarian while also being easier on my (not great) eyes. Figured I'd post it for anyone who might want to use it.

My attempt

I like it! Any chance you'll redo the other pages to match?

Thank you! Not any time soon for a full redo of the other pages, it took me a while on my spare time to do this. I actually don't mind the other sheets as much (well, the B&W ones), they don't hurt my eyes like the original main sheet! Looking at them, I may just edit the pdf to change shading from black to gray or something.

For other options check out what Uchuujin and Viemexis made, I like theirs as well. They're also in this thread, not hard to find.

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Phaye wrote:
I like it! very clean. my only negative feedback is that melee strikes can use dex or str.

Thanks! I was not aware of that! I just purchased the rule book pdf so haven't had a chance to dig in yet, but I was going by what Paizo had listed on their sheets.

7 people marked this as a favorite.

Hey gamers! I redid the first page of the 2E character sheet for my own use. It's not perfect, but the main goal was to be utilitarian while also being easier on my (not great) eyes. Figured I'd post it for anyone who might want to use it.

My attempt

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Thanks for those links VestOfHolding! Very interesting. And, I'm afraid, applicable to these sheets, especially the color one. Very busy, hard to follow, unflattering colors; it made my eyes very unhappy.

I gotta say that, while they weren't perfect, I kind of liked the playtest sheets better. Landscape should also be an option for those who like them as well.

Oh, and the B&W character sheet I just downloaded still has Pathfinder misspelled in the footers.

David knott 242 wrote:
RH wrote:
sadie wrote:
Didn't there used to be PDFs split into chapters?
The PF1 Core Rulebook I have in Lite, Full, and separate-file-per-chapter PDFs. I'd be surprised if they didn't do the same for 2e.

Prepare to be surprised then. They seem to have discontinued that feature in recent months.

Yeah? Like how? Has there been a large book released recently without the option? I don't have the Starfinder pdf so I've no idea other than the core rulebook and Bestiary 6 split pdfs I have.

sadie wrote:
Didn't there used to be PDFs split into chapters?

The PF1 Core Rulebook I have in Lite, Full, and separate-file-per-chapter PDFs. I'd be surprised if they didn't do the same for 2e.

James Jacobs wrote:
For D&D, my favorite setting is Greyhawk. There's a LOT of Greyhawk DNA in Golarion. I also quite enjoyed Forgotten Realms, Mystara, Dark Sun, and Planescape.

How did you feel about Ravenloft?

inshal chenet wrote:

So I am about to run Carrion Crown for a group of friends. One of these friends is about to run Strange Aeons as well. The only people in both groups are the two of us GMs.

I was wondering if there are any tie in characters or whatnot as they both take place in Ustalav.

Only the first two books take place in Ustalav. The second book takes place mainly in Thrushmoor, which is featured in Carrion Crown book 4. But it's mainly the location, not so much npcs or other story beats AFAIK.

quibblemuch wrote:
"Did anyone's players figure out the Argus Wall?"

My players tried several things, including hacking away at it and setting fire to it, before realizing it was a haunt via a Religion check. They then picked up on the clue of its question of "Who am I become?" and remembered that there was a big mirror in the laundry room, which of course worked. I vastly prefer the players figure stuff out rather than having a skill check provide all the answers (which means a lot of Paizo's haunts need a bit of reworking, since many of them require steps to cleanse that there is no way characters could know.)

DRD1812 wrote:

Apologies for thread necro, but I'm about to start this AP on Sunday.

Do you actually play on this thing? If so, how do you deal with the problem of having the full map laid out for the players to see before they've explored? I mean, is the whole spoilers/metagame/you-wouldn't-know-what's-behind-that-door a problem in practice?

I happen to own a mondomat, so this is VERY RELEVANT to my interests.

I think Amber Die talked about it back in the thread a bit. Basically, if you have the whole thing on a table, you'd cover up the unexplored areas with cardstock or something until it's revealed.

When I ran it, I used a digital map, with fog of war, and displayed on a television. Worked great.

Gorbacz wrote:

You can perfectly fine run this AP with high-powered heroes. Pulpy, two-fisted guns akimbo take on Call of Cthulhu works fine in Earth 1920s (see Pulp Cthulhu from Pelgrane Press and other non-purist takes on Mythos) and it works just as well with fireballs and wizards.

Frankly, the notion of protagonists being powerless against the unknown is one of the core ideas of "purist" Lovecraftian horror - and is next to impossible to convey in D&D/PF, which are heroic fantasy superhero genre. A mid-level D&D hero has seen and killed things which would drive a CoC investigator insane. Your best bet is going more "horror Indiana Jones" and having people drop dynamite, I mean, fireballs down a dhole's maw while dangling from an airplane, I mean, dragon.

That's a great way to run this. It's a Call of Cthulhu THEMED adventure, and getting the low-powered, fragile character feel in Pathfinder is really tough without changing a lot and adding many limitations to the players. Even the Player's Guide talks about this, and how the themes don't allow the GM free rein to kill the PC's. It SHOULD be challenging and a little unforgiving toward the players, but overall survival is assumed.

As far as the backstories go, you have time before having to reveal them fully, so you can build them slowly if you need to. You can also integrate things that come up during play too, and look awesome when it looks like it was all planned from the start!

There are plenty of places for you to plant various seeds, especially in book one (in their dreams), and in book two (with townsfolk chatter). I would definitely include the Yithian in your mind-swapped pc's dreams in book one, that's a perfect place to do it. Maybe have Kaklatath reach out periodically in that pc's dreams even later. Read Lovecraft's Shadow out of Time novella if you haven't, that has tons of things you can mine for a pc who has been mind swapped in the past. This AP allows for some really strange events to happen as dreams and even time itself can be a little wacky.

1) The point buy won't make a HUGE difference, but that plus five players will definitely skew things in favor of the pc's. Class selection and teamwork make a bigger difference, imo. This AP leans to the difficult side early on for the default of 15 point buy/four PC's, but in our experience Paizo AP's are written a tad too easy except for some specific encounters. In this book one, for example, the Nightgaunt does have the potential to be a killer, as do some of the early doppelganger fights, depending on dice rolls. Look on these boards for things other GM's have posted; The Order of the Amber Die guys had some good points regarding the Nightgaunt fight, as did many others. Lots of things have been written and ideas tossed around, definitely worth looking at.

2) The AP leaves things very vague regarding the PC backstories, giving some hooks mainly in book two, so you have a lot of freedom there. Having more interconnected stories might actually make the plot flow a bit better than as written. The assumption given in the AP is that the PC's were slaves sold to Lowl by Weiralai; I ignored the slave part entirely and only one of my PC's actually had a connection to her. Feel free to do whatever, just be sure to look ahead and pay attention to how the various plot hooks (mainly throughout books one through three) will work in order to maintain a coherent plot. And plant the seeds of Ariadnah early and often; the AP doesn't do a great job of having her presence felt between a few mentions in book one and her final boss appearance in book six.

Occult Adventures says that Plane Shift does not allow travel to the Dimension of Dreams, so we can just have that be the roadblock to pc's getting to and from there with the mega gear, which the module clearly does not expect the party to take to the real world. Look back to page 2 of this thread, someone was asking a similar question back then, though I don't think it was ever definitively answered. Sure, the module mentions Plane Shift for some npc's, but Paizo writers once in a while throw in contradictory stuff by accident, and you can just leave that part out of the narrative.

Doppleman wrote:


I am wondering the SAME thing right now. Except my players are really pushing their luck.

They went to Iris Hill first when they started Trushmoore. They destroyed one gate to the manor, but I succesfully pushed them back because I didn't wanted them there right away.
They then invaded Fort Hailcourse.

My Risi also escaped.
One of the kidnapers escaped and alerted Melissen of the PC.

Now, not only Melissen knows the PC are coming.
They decided to take a loooooong break to craft magic items and retrain some of their feats and class levels. I think they spent over 10 days of downtime even though I told them Lowls is getting farther away from them and that kidnappings are still occuring while the're doing that.

So, I can assume the star stelae under Iris Hill is getting close to be fully charged if it's not already. What happens?
I was thinking, maybe, that the charged star stelae attracted more weird monsters making the last fight under Iris Hill harder.

If the players really want to slack off on the plot like that I'd hit them hard! Maybe even have many of the townsfolk perish as Carsosa begins to suck the town away in a second Thrushmoor Vanishing or something. Consequences are needed.

Yakman wrote:
gustavo iglesias wrote:
Yakman wrote:
gustavo iglesias wrote:
Btw: i let the player play Paladin, but he had to remove the fear inmunity. She has +4 to fear, but not inmunity.

why not just make them take an archetype which replaces aura of courage?

Like Holy Tactician or Divine Hunter?

Player gets their Paladin and you keep your scary.

Because the player wanted to play a specific archetype (Sacred Shield) which is not compatible by default with those other archetypes.

ah. i was thinking there was an easy compromise to be had.

still... i think it's worth suggesting as a means forward.

I'm preparing to start the ap after the new year, and have a Paladin pc lined up. I'm using the Fear rules from Horror Adventures and will just use their suggestion where fear immunity becomes resistance instead; in this case that pc simply uses a lower tier of fear effect.

And I look at it that Paladins and Clerics (and other classes who might be super LG types) will have extra role playing opportunities due to the moral grayness that permeates much of the campaign. I think between the guilt/forgiveness traits and me simply not hardlining the moral compass there won't be situations requiring multiple atonement spells (unless the LG pc actively crosses even the blurry lines).

Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:

I really wanted to find a way to plug Crucible of Chaos into the AP, but I couldn't find a place for it that I liked.

If I were starting the campaign over, I might run it just after the PCs get their memories back, as a flashback to a mission they did for Count Lowls.

That's an awesome idea to run something as a flashback; heck, even loot they gather there can be "found" stashed as Hubaris mentioned.

My group ran through Crucible a while back, so I'll have to stay away from that one lol.

Did anyone incorporate any other modules into your Strange Aeons campaign? If so, what were they, and do you have any suggestions/tips?

I'm thinking of running Carrion Hill. It's for level 5 pc's; it seems the most logical place to insert would be between books one and two, after the group leaves Briarstone but before they arrive at Thrushmoor.

Obviously I'll have to mess around with clues, motivations, and geography.

Any thoughts?

James Jacobs wrote:

Xhamen-Dor is a great old one I invented back in high school in 1988 or thereabouts for a short story I wrote for English class, and then expanded on in a sequel to said story in a college creative writing class.

The original short story was VERY much inspired by "The Shadow Over Innsmouth" by Lovecraft, but also by William Hope Hogdson's "The Voice in the Night" and Stephen King's "It."

That's awesome! Any chance of us reading those?

Daeryon wrote:

This is one of the things I'm puzzling over as well.

It's not helped by the fact that I currently only have part 1 and 2, but digging around this is the "facts" I seem to have some up with -

#1. The PC's background is left intentionally vague on purpose, for you to fill in as DM if you want.

#2. The PC's now are not who they were before in many ways. Working for Lowls they were somewhere between neutral and evil. I'm puzzled how this would work in a paladin, or a good cleric, but thankfully I don't have to. (No paladin in my party and cleric is neutral).

#3. About 2 to 5 years ago the PCs were given to Lowls by Weiralai, a Denizen of Leng. Weiralai may have acquired them from Gnoll slavers, specifically one named "Biting Lash".

#4. Lowls sacrificed the PC's minds in exchange for something about 2 days before "In Search of Sanity" starts.


There is a pretty good timeline someone came up with here in the message boards. It only picks up with the advent of the fugue state, but it might give some good info for you.

The backstories are intentinally left vague, so, for example, what I'm going to do is customize each of my players' backgrounds using a blend of what is listed in the module and other, original, things.
Book three especially has more information on the timeline and backstory, as that is where the characters get their memories back, so I'd recommend reading through that. The whole path is worth reading over ahead of time, I think, as there are even things in book 6 that relate directly to the opening moments of the campaign.

Weissrolf wrote:

The original maps at Paizo are done at vastly higher resolution that what we are given in the Interactive Maps and AP books. Why does Paizo not offer full resolution maps in a usable format (not that hardly usable interactive format)?

Even the map in the background of the title page of ISoS's Interactive Maps PDF is higher resolution than the main interactive one.

Fortunately my native language is not English, which allows me to buy a translated version of the AP that includes high resolution maps.´

Still, why does Paizo only deliver maps in low resolution when the high resolution files are available to them?

I agree with you wholeheartedly, but this has come up in discussions before. Here is one in which James Jacobs commented:

I would buy the maps for use on digital displays (as you point out Weissrolf, the ones included in the Interactive Map PDFs aren't often useful for this purpose). Perhaps with the increased usage of VTT, and enough customer demand, Paizo will change their minds and figure out a way to make this happen.

runslikeawelshman wrote:

"The mist finally condenses into humanoid form and the Tatterman - the nemesis of your dreams - stands before you. A chill runs down your spine as you relive the horrific nightmares of the past nights, revisiting in gory detail the death you found at your dream-stalker's hands."

When the Tatterman manifests, each PC makes a will save against his Fear Aura. Those who succeed become spooked, while those who fail become shaken. Each round, at the beginning of their turn, each PC must attamept a new save. Those that succeed reduce their fear level by one step, while those who fail increase it. A spooked character who succeeds on one of these saves loses the condition and does not need to continue making saves. A scared character who fails is staggered for one round. When the Tatterman activates his Frightful Presence abilty, all PCs must immediately save or increase their fear level. A character who has already fought off the effect of the Fear Aura but fails to save against Frightful Presence becomes spooked and must save at...

I really like the sound of this! I'm in the (very) early planning stages for running this AP, and I am intending to use the Horror Adventures fear system as well. I've been toying with ideas of using things like this to make the fear effects interesting and dynamic while still keeping the threat alive. I also agree on using the agile template and some of the lair action ideas from 5e; anything to make solo creature battles viable and interesting without resorting to adding more and more minions or amping up their hp.

Please keep us posted on how this works in play!

negative_energy wrote:
Erich Zann himself shows up near the end of the campaign, but this viol doesn't actually foreshadow that in any logical way. I just removed it from my game.

Has anyone here run the campaign and had their players recognize the viol? I am surprised they didn't have it tie into Zann in any way; though from book one to book six is a pretty big gap I suppose.

Wight wrote:

Today, my group ran through most of the Mysterium (we picked up at the start of the second level). I thought I'd share some of what happened with you guys, as well as some of my thoughts.

** spoiler omitted **...

Thanks for the write up, and nice addition / tweaks there! Would love to hear your other ideas and additions, if you get time. Thanks!

DM Bigrin wrote:

I am in the process of converting the AP maps from the drawings in the books to VTT-ready maps for my players and I thought I'd make them available to you guys as well, if you like.

You can find them HERE and I will be updating them as I can.

Fantastic job! Thanks for sharing!

mardaddy wrote:

Soon enough, the party is going to the Trenches, and I KNOW they are going to fly around as much as they can (Carpet of Flying, Wind Walk.)

Did any DM's out there encounter their PC's flitting here and there at will? And if they had, did they do anything to stifle it, or just "go with it?"

At this level of play, and ESPECIALLY with optimized PC's, each encounter at the trenches is a cake-walk if the PC's can approach them fresh each and every time (which will be their goal, and with flight at-will, they can do it.)

I've been looking at this as well. My group is getting close. I like the idea of somehow forcing them to walk the trenches (lest it get a bit too easy). Perhaps since the entire area was designed to bring down flying enemy cities/ships the air space just above the trenches has a built-in downdraft powered by air elementals? Wouldn't prohibit flight entirely but would make it a hassle to do so.

Michael Boozer wrote:

I realize this is an older post but...

I have a digital D&D table and larger maps would be great. I don't even want to print them, just stick them in Roll20. Briarstone Asylum looks pretty fuzzy when I stretch out the PDF image onto the digital table.

I second this. We've printed out several maps in the past for table top use, but most, especially the larger ones, are very blurry after enlargement. I'm honestly not sure what the use is for a lot of the pdf maps in the AP map packs. Not really great for vtt or printing, so we are stuck mapping by hand anyway. They're obviously not drawn in the relatively small scale supplied to us in the pdf; I'd be willing to pay a little extra for the original higher resolution images.

In the OA playtest, the Aether Kineticist could choose the Wild Talent Foe Throw starting at sixth level. In the final product the prereqs changed slightly (class needs to be the effective level of the power x2), and Foe Throw is level 3 now (thus at least a sixth level Kineticist - as before). However, my issue is that they separated Wild Talents into Infusions and Utility Wild Talents, and Foe Throw, being an infusion, wouldn't be able to be selected until the class gains its first infusion after level 6, so 9th level. This seems off to me, having it at sixth level before but not until 9th level now. Am I missing something?

Canthin wrote:
All in all it is a good feat, but with very terrible side effects at higher levels (when you start using/needing Swift and Immediate actions more and more).

Good point, Canthin. Thank you very much.

Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
No. It's just a swift action that anyone who can cast spells can use. No spell expended or even needing to be memorized. A caster can use arcane strike even if they've used every spell they have available.

Much obliged, Tiny Coffee Golem.

My DM and I are trying to figure out whether a spell slot is expended when using the Arcane Strike feat to add damage. The wording doesn't say it does but we'd like clarification to be sure if it is like old 3.5 or different.