Heaven & Hell: Aasimar & Tiefling Ancestries


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I told myself I was going to run Pathfinder 2e straight-up for a bit, and sure enough, failed my Willpower save at earliest convenience. I'm running a game in the old Planescape setting this coming weekend, and wanted to add some handrolled Aasimar and Tiefling NPCs to the mix.

Hence my purchase of Heaven & Hell: Aasimar & Tiefling Ancestries, from Rising Phoenix Games (via DTRPG). About 40 pages, it sets up both of the ancestries pretty much as advertised. I like the various heritages (Angelkin, Lawbringer, Pitborn, and Grimspawn among them.

Haven't had time to really use the pdf just yet or go deep on the various feats and such. From my general read, I'm pretty satisfied with it, even if only as a stop-gap until the official Paizo versions (and even then, good to have options).


Molotov wrote:


Haven't had time to really use the pdf just yet or go deep on the various feats and such. From my general read, I'm pretty satisfied with it, even if only as a stop-gap until the official Paizo versions (and even then, good to have options).

I'm curious about this book as well. Let us know how it plays! When I looked at drivethrurpg there were was a review that was concerned about some of the heritage feats being too powerful.


I downloaded the book yesterday and IMO there are feats that are to over powered. A few examples below:

FIENDISH RESISTANCE FEAT 1
TIEFLING
You have a remarkable adaptation to hot
environments from ancestors who inhabited
the outer planes. This grants fire resistance
equal to half your level (minimum 1), and you
gain horns. These add an extra die to any
unarmed damage rolls that you make.

DMs shouldn't allow players to get the above feat with Adopted Ancestry because IMO gaining horns screams physiological feature.

Another one.

SUPREME SORCERY FEAT 1
TIEFLING
Magic burns within you. Choose one magic
school. Treat all spells from the arcane list with
that school as heightened (+1). For example,
if you cast fireball as an arcane spell, and
you’ve selected evocation as your school, it
does an extra 2d6 points of fire damage.

I am sure there are other powerful feats but the above two are what stands out to me. IMO if I was an unarmed user or a arcane caster I would defensively pick Tiefling. Shield focus users will likely want to go Aasimar or at least adopted ancestry into them.

Silver Crusade

mavbor wrote:

I downloaded the book yesterday and IMO there are feats that are to over powered. A few examples below:

Yeah, those seem over the top to me. Way better than what is in the Core rulebook

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Ah so they are just like the Tieflings and Aasimar of yore then :3


Hmm, fair feedback re: those feats. I'll only be using them for NPCs right now, so "safe" ... but definitely something to keep an eye on.

Sovereign Court

Thanks for buying our book and thank you for the feedback. We're putting together an errata file that we'll make available soon.

We're not likely to change Fiendish Resistance at this point, because we feel that the horns only have a real impact for unarmed monks. Of course, you're welcome to cut the horns if you wish.

Supreme Sorcery will be mentioned in the errata, with a rules clarification.


The horns IMO makes it that the feat can not be obtained via Adopted Ancestry which greatly reduces its OPness. Which is a good thing IMO.

I read on other threads that Aasimar and Tiefling was supposed to be Heritages that other races can get (supposed a dev mentioned it). Is that still planned (like half orcs and half elfs)?

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

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mavbor wrote:

The horns IMO makes it that the feat can not be obtained via Adopted Ancestry which greatly reduces its OPness. Which is a good thing IMO.

I read on other threads that Aasimar and Tiefling was supposed to be Heritages that other races can get (supposed a dev mentioned it). Is that still planned (like half orcs and half elfs)?

The consensus based on what was announced at GenCon is that the Advanced Players Guide (new classes playtest beginning in October of this year and releasing next November, I believe) will contain these heritages, and that they will be available to multiple different races.


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Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
cartmanbeck wrote:
mavbor wrote:

The horns IMO makes it that the feat can not be obtained via Adopted Ancestry which greatly reduces its OPness. Which is a good thing IMO.

I read on other threads that Aasimar and Tiefling was supposed to be Heritages that other races can get (supposed a dev mentioned it). Is that still planned (like half orcs and half elfs)?

The consensus based on what was announced at GenCon is that the Advanced Players Guide (new classes playtest beginning in October of this year and releasing next November, I believe) will contain these heritages, and that they will be available to multiple different races.

And the idea of aasimars and tieflings as heritages is pretty well confirmed by their Bestiary entries. Any non-human with the "Human" keyword is a safe bet for a heritage rather than an ancestry.


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Fiendish Resistance looks like two pretty good ancestry feats rolled into one... and also doesn't make any sense. I don't get why having horns would make your claws hit harder, nor do I understand how they'd interact with a character that gets horns elsewhere (like an Animal Instinct Barbarian). Seems like it should be its own gore attack similar to the bite that Demonic Sorcerers can get.


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Arachnofiend wrote:
Fiendish Resistance looks like two pretty good ancestry feats rolled into one... and also doesn't make any sense. I don't get why having horns would make your claws hit harder, nor do I understand how they'd interact with a character that gets horns elsewhere (like an Animal Instinct Barbarian). Seems like it should be its own gore attack similar to the bite that Demonic Sorcerers can get.

There's actually a heritage in the Core Rulebook that grants a specialized natural weapon unarmed attack: the Razortooth Goblin. So it's not like there isn't precedent for it.


Ventnor wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
Fiendish Resistance looks like two pretty good ancestry feats rolled into one... and also doesn't make any sense. I don't get why having horns would make your claws hit harder, nor do I understand how they'd interact with a character that gets horns elsewhere (like an Animal Instinct Barbarian). Seems like it should be its own gore attack similar to the bite that Demonic Sorcerers can get.
There's actually a heritage in the Core Rulebook that grants a specialized natural weapon unarmed attack: the Razortooth Goblin. So it's not like there isn't precedent for it.

Very much this. It's absolutely overly strong for what it is. Even if it granted resistance and its own attack it would be two Heritages in one. Having it as-is where it's a standard Heritage ability plus an ability that's straight broken for Monks, Animal Barbarians, Draconic/Demonic Sorcerers, and any Monk Multiclass characters (am I missing any?) Is still broken.

It's nice that they are willing to erratta things, but they've said they're unlikely to change this so I feel comfortable saying this:

This kind of thing is exactly why 3pp material has a bad rep.


Arachnofiend wrote:
Fiendish Resistance looks like two pretty good ancestry feats rolled into one... and also doesn't make any sense. I don't get why having horns would make your claws hit harder, nor do I understand how they'd interact with a character that gets horns elsewhere (like an Animal Instinct Barbarian). Seems like it should be its own gore attack similar to the bite that Demonic Sorcerers can get.

Yup. Horns are themselves a heritage and would be handled as a new natural weapon, e.g. the goblin jaws. I think a d6 piercing unarmed brawling group attack with deadly d8 could be a reasonable way to go.

The fire resist is fine but should be bundled with a weaker secondary effect, such as a small number of bonus HP (e.g. +4) at level one, or an exploration/terrain interacting ability like shifting hot environments to seem less bad for the tiefling.

Supreme sorcery I feel also goes massively against the careful balancing of the rest of the system.

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